₦airaland Forum

@ Sisterwoman,
I like you oh and I'm happy you found your right Naija man but I beg you, please cease and desist with all this talk about learning his language and cooking for him. Abi is slaving away over a hot stove going to make her less White and more Nigerian?


Was having a brain freeze when they were dating, got married and had a child? He just suddenly woke and found out she's not a Nigerian Yoruba woman? Are you kidding me??!!

@ Topic
Everyone has their own breaking point. Personally, I'll be long gone by now,

I'll implore any insurance company trying to go into business with the Naija movie industry to this first,

1) Find an open back Pick up truck

2) Find a big basket

3) Dump the money they want to use in the basket.

4) Put the basket in the back of the pick up truck.

5) Drive around on the freeway.


If they enjoy watching their money flying in the wind with no hope of ever getting it back. . . Then they can go into business with Nollywood.

You know, on second thots, the basket of money in a pickup truck is better. . . at least there's a chance of getting their money back.

@ Orikinla
Nice concept but you assume they care about continuity and all the other pesky details that makes a good movie. . . A good movie. Why do you think they won't just replace RMD if God forbid, something happens to him in the middle of shooting, with Jim Iyke and carry on with it? You are so generous assuming production will come to a halt, should they lose say their sound equipment when they have the Producer's CD player to work with? It's not like their fans will notice or even care if RMD walks into a room and comes out as Jim Iyke. . . after all "They (Nollywood) are trying"

[quote author=Ruby_Pearl link=topic=177371.msg2873912#msg2873912 date=1222794794]Sisikill, the best Nollywood movies are the old ones.
The ones with morals and lessons in it, not the useless ones they make nowadays.

I just watched one with a friend yest., had to get the subtitled ones.
She loves it. Even Jamaicans love Nigerian movies 

The english ones made in big towns like lagos etc, boringggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg[/quote]I agree 100%. There were so Authentic and so very good!

These new ones are so affected, so horribly bad, it is embarrassing and while we are still coming to terms with this sad fact, they take it one step further by listing them on the biggest movie database on the web. . . jagalajagala-ish!

Why? Why? For all that is Holy. . . WHY?!!! 

tope2000:
I thot i was the only one that find the english naija movies boringggggggggggggggggg

Rotflmao! Welcome to the Club!!

ebelegirl:
@ poster - so your evaluation of a decent movie industry is based on the fact that a movie has listed all the actors, the plot and synopsis and a discussion on IMDB?? OMG! I have never laughed more in my life! Measure the movie on its merit not on the fact that it was not properly listed on IMDB is the point I am trying to make. So, I can create a horrible, low budget piece of crap of a movie but because I list it on IMDB along with its plot, synopsis, actors and then start a discussion that automatically means my movie is worthy Wow! Too funny! I have seen many crappy Nollywood movies, yes. But I have also seen many crappy hollywood movies that I would say are actually worse than a lot of Nollywood movies. Oh but the hollywood movie is listed on IMDB along with its plot and some discussions so that makes it ok. Um, ya. Think again boo boo.

Very illogical rationalizations you are making, my dear.

Oy vey! Defenders are sooo sweet in their staunch defense and how they try to circumvent an issue, even if they were the ones who made it in the first place.

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't you the one who just told us IMDB is meant for lisiting movies for people to discuss and rate?

How have the Nollywood movies listed on IMDB accomplished that? How can we discuss and rate when we don't have the necessary information.

You provided a link to the worst movie on IMDB to support the "see we aren't the only ones who make bad movies" excuse you apologist are so quick to make and I showed you that even the WORST MOVIES still give the audience something to discuss and Rate. . . again what, according to YOU, IMDB is meant for, by providing useful information, something Naija movies don't do. . .

Why bother listing them on IMDB if it's not going to be useful to anyone?

Nollywood makes horrible, crappy movies, which is already a strike against them, then they list the movies on the LARGEST MOVIE DATABASE on the web in the the same manner they go about making their movies, Shoddy, careless and just crappy. They are so BAD (production and listing wise), they don't cross anyone's radar (on the other hand, maybe that is something to be grateful for).

If you create a horrible, low budget piece of crap and it is list correctly on IMDB, giving the audience to the opportunity to DO WHAT IMDB was intended for. . . then YES, ABSOLUTELY, IT IS IMDB WORTHY!!! Do you get it now? Do ya?

By the way, you are not seriously comparing a Hollywood Crappy movie to a Nigerian Crappy movie? Pray tell, what Criteria do you use. . . Volume or Production? Another thing, how can anyone who thinks Nigerian movies are good find fault in any Hollywood? Do you have certain expectations for Nollywood Movies and is it lower than the one you have for Hollywood Movies? Why?

More movies to discuss and rate

Egbo Emi
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0900929/

Eru Ife
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0983847/

Baba Eleshin
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1286772/

Agogo Eewo
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0424777/

Adun Ewuro
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1109454/

Ina Fitila
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1193576/

Ito Urine
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1266660/

PS
An amendment to the first post . . . even if they Nollywood movies have complete entries and they are up to par, they should still be vetted for TITLES.
What is Black Bra? Ito Urine? Madam Yoyo? Basket Mouth? Bumper to Bumper? Chicken Madness? Dollars from Germany? Fila Daddy? Husband my foot?

I can go on and on but I am too depressed.  These movies are on IMDB and they are tagged NIGERIA!!!  https://www.forumsextreme.com/imgs1/sEm_bag.gif

ebelegirl:
@ Poster, your argument is seriously lacking. It seems that you are upset because Nollywood movies are on the IMDB site when you feel Nollywood movies are not "good enough" to be included in such a database. I frequent that site (IMDB) often and as the name states it is a database, which means ANY and ALL kinds of movies can be included. The point of the site is to list movies and have people discuss and rate the movies. There are many crappy Hollywood movies listed on the site. Should they be removed because they are not up to par (as in they received poor ratings from viewers)? You can even look up movies based on low rankings.

Just to prove how off your topic is, visit the link below. It is the IMDB list of worst rated movies. As you will see, all are from hollywood, yet they still exist on the site. Any chance to knock Nollywood will surely be taken ! Geez!

http://www.imdb.com/chart/bottom

LMAO! What can I say, you got me. Gee I am so embarrassed right now, It's not a nice feeling when someone throws sandsand in your argument just like that.

You are right, the point of IMDB is to. . . and I'll quote you (hope you don't mind) "list movies and have people discuss and rate the movies.. The idea is for anyone to go on IMDB, type in the movie they want, rate it and discuss it with others.

Okay let's do just that. . .

I'll go first and pick[b] Passionate Appeal [/b]starring Ramsey Nouah.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0842611/

Synopsis according to IMDB is. . . not there.
Plot according to IMDB is. . . is missing
User Comments, User reviews, Rating, Credits etc according IMDB is. . . not available.

Let's try another, obviously there is wro. . . let's just try another.

Another New Day [/b]starring Bimbo Akintola

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0972766/

Synopsis according to IMDB is. . . not there.
Plot according to IMDB is. . . is missing
User Comments, User reviews, Rating, Credits etc according IMDB is. . . not available.

Alright I think IMDB is down on my laptop, I'm gonna use a Desktop for another Movie.

[b]Black Bra ^{Oh heavens! What a name} starring Nonso Diobi

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1017856/

Synopsis according to IMDB is. . . not there.
Plot according to IMDB is. . . is missing
User Comments, User reviews, Rating, Credits etc according IMDB is. . . not available.

Break up [/b]with Pat Attah
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0494658/

[b]Butterfly starring Chidi Ihesie
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0494483/

Tears and Sorrow [/b]starring Sandra Achums

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0943501/

Okay, I'm stumped. Is there a special goggles to see these things regular eyes can't and it is only available to only a selected few. . .  Coz I gotta tell ya, there isn't much to jump start a discussion here let alone rate the movie. So my sister, doesn't this (not having a complete entry, I mean) defeat the purpose of IMDB, you know the one you have so patiently schooled us about?? 


Let's try movies on your WORST LIST shall we

[b]Disaster Movie

Synopsis - Check
User ratings - Check
Reviews - Check
DISCUSSION - Check

Zombie Nation

Synopsis - Check
User ratings - Check
Reviews - Check
DISCUSSION - Check

Barschel - Mord in Genf? (from Germany)

Synopsis - Check
User ratings - Check
Reviews - Check
DISCUSSION - Check

Kis Vuk (From Hungary)

Synopsis - Check
User ratings - Check
Reviews - Check
DISCUSSION - Check

Emret komutanim: Sah mat (From Turkey)

Synopsis - Check
User ratings - Check
Reviews - Check
DISCUSSION - Check

Please tell me again how my argument is seriously lacking?

Oh by the by, I'd be remiss in my duty as a member of a civilized society if I didn't thank you for posting that link because it not only proves my point. . . it marries it, it makes love to it and gives birth to it.  Seriously, how BAD, AWFUL, HORRIBLE, TERRIBLE, do you have to be not to be included in the WORST MOVIE LIST? It's like NOLLYWOOD does not even cross their radar, like they are saying including NOLLYWOOD movies on the WORST MOVIE LIST is an insult to the the movies on the list. . . and I'm the one knocking Nollywood down?

Jeebus!!

Take The Blinders off, People!!!!!!!!!

vescucci:
If you weren't the one telling me this I would believe it. IMDB though a database should not let that word 'database' mislead them into putting garbage in their site. I've been complaining that why should C-movies and 'straight to DVD' movies be included and I'm afflicted with thi horrible news. Since the 'M' in IMDB means movies, how can you explain putting trash in IMDB? Methinks one dude (I refrain from choosing a more suitable name for fear of the tribal people flocking in here) went and bribed some other dude to get the slots. Na really by force?

As for the quintessential protagonists (or antagonists, depending on which side of the fence you are) I love the way you make them seem puny by laughing them off. I'm sure to get some half educated bloke challenging my 'convoluted mind' That's why I'm Vescucci and not John Doe, d'uh!

Bribery? Of course! Why didn't I think of that! It's got to be bribery or blackmail. 

So tell me, is there any other way to respond to the quintessential protagonist, antagonist and whatever gonist you can think. . . apart from laughing? 

You guys are so sexist making fun of her! My goodness, is it because she is a woman AND a mother? It was obvious to anyone not blinded by left wing propaganda that Katie Couric was so harsh and mean to her. What was with all the questions she was asking. . . I mean seriously, Foreign Policy? Bail out plan? Come on! What happened to questions about bulldogs and what shade of lipstick they should wear in the summer? Why didn't Katie ask that or questions about why T Rex make better pets than Z Rex?

I suspect the democrats paid Katie Couric and NBC off but no matter, the truth will out. . . it always does!

Be strong Sarah Palin, be strong!!

Awww, how cute. . . reminds me of Nursery and Primary school when a boy has a crush on a girl and instead of telling her, he pulls her hair, hides her books and pencils, makes bad faces at her and so on.

You can measure how he feels by how nasty he is and people, they don’t come nastier than this. -

Accusing a girl of being an Ogbanje!

Hmm, Be still my heart!!!

https://www.smileycollector.com/images/valentine.gif

Honestly, Naija guys are soooo Romantic, they make my heart explode!!

Never change guys. . . Never change!

LMAO! Of course it is retarded. . . when it is about putting effort into things and making it better, it is retarded. Heaven forbid, we actually sit down and come up with something IMDB Worthy, nah. . . what for, when we can continue our enabling act. Yes, let's all zoom off and hiss while doing it too.

Nothing new about Christlam, I've been one all my life. Contrary to what fanatics (on both side of the aisle) think you can find a happy medium.


All of you (Christians and Muslims) get ready out coz we are coming for you.



@Topic
Maybe your spirit is yearning for better understanding of this religion that baffles so many. Don't be afraid to open yourself up for new experience, you don't have to embrace it. Remember, If you are sure of what stand for, you can't fall for anything and the sooner people realize this, the better for all of us. There will be no more thread closing because people are accusing someone of converting another person.



Jeebus! Look at me sounding like a freaking Hari Krishna pamphlet

This is an appeal to everyone in the Naija Movie business including the fans, fans of fans, well wishers, apologists, excuse makers, daddy of the producer, sister in law to the brother of the Assistant Producer's mother in law. . .

PLEASE STOP EMBARRASSING US!

It is bad enough we have to see the movie your churn out on our Naija website but on IMDB too?

Come on! This is just all sorts of WRONG!!

For those who don’t know what IMDB stands for THE INTERNET MOVIE DATABASE, A site for GOOD, TOP NOTCH MOVIE and it is embarrassing to see Naija movies on there!!

My God! You’d think an “Award Winning” website like IMDB will have some sort of vetting process in place to sift out the corn from the shaft.

Apart from not being up to par production, Development and everything else wise, the Naija movie enteries are NEVER complete. Just some shoddy paapaapaa, wuruwuru entry, like they begged them to do it.

A normal movie entry includes the following

Top Links
trailers and videos
full cast and crew
trivia
official sites
memorable quotes

Overview
main details
combined details
full cast and crew
company credits
tv schedule

Awards & Reviews
user comments
external reviews
newsgroup reviews
awards
user ratings
parents guide
recommendations
message board

Plot & Quotes
plot summary
plot synopsis
plot keywords
Amazon.com  summary
memorable quotes

Fun Stuff
trivia
goofs
soundtrack listing
crazy credits
alternate versions
movie connections
FAQ

Other Info
merchandising links
box office/business
release dates
filming locations
technical specs
laserdisc details
DVD details
literature listings
NewsDesk

Promotional
taglines
trailers and videos
posters
photo gallery

External Links
showtimes
official sites
miscellaneous
photographs
sound clips
video clips

The only thing the Naija movies have is the cast list. No plot line, No pictures, No Videos,. . . NOTHING!

IT IS NOT BY FORCE!

Thrust in the middle of all the other movies from other countries, Nollywood comes off really pathetic and I didn’t think it was possible to come off worse than it already is.

So it is with a humble heart, on bended knees I beg whoever is in charge, either make the movie up to par or stop putting the movies where REAL MOVIE people can see them.

Thank You


Here’s a link to all the Naija Movies on IMDB. . . Pick one, any one and see for yourself.

http://www.imdb.com/List?tv=on&&countries=Nigeria&&nav=/Sections/Countries/Nigeria/include-titles&&heading=8;All;Nigeria

Anini's Story.

[size=70pt][center]NO!!!![/center][/size]

I can help you review movie, I just can't promise to sugarcoat things.

If your objective is to make people watch Naija movie, I'll advice you to tell me "No, get your naija movie hating behind away from my blog NOW"

Jesus Christ Violent?

Some people seem to think and they base on two events

1) Telling his disciples to buy swords

2) Over turning the money changers’ tables in the temple.

The rationale behind #1 is that Christ is that by asking his disciples to buy swords, was preparing for battle.

From Olabowale on a previous now locked thread

Who was Jesus going to fight?

Honestly, I was about to ask you this question.

From Olabowale

And I read where somebody said that when two of his desciples showed him their swords, purchase with the sales of their clocks, he said that was enough. But they purchased swords as he had instructed them. There there were no need for swords, a thing needed in war, at that time, he would not have instructed them to do so. And I read where somebody said that when two of his desciples showed him their swords, purchase with the sales of their clocks he said that was enough. [b]But they purchased swords as he had instructed them. There there were no need for swords, a thing needed in war, at that time, he would not have instructed them to do so

They didn’t sell anything, they didn’t buy anything, they didn’t sell anything to buy anything. They already had it on them.

Luke 22: 35 - 38

35Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?"
      "Nothing," they answered.
36He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
37It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."
38The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords."  "That is enough," he replied.

That you continue to use the word war is a bit puzzling, I mean I don’t want believe you are doing what I think you are doing. It’s almost like you are trying to jujitsu it into our minds. . . like they do with those commercials, where they repeat something over and over again. . . “Coca-Cola – it’s simply the best” and soon enough, when people hear It’s simply the best, they automatically think of Coca-Cola. A wonderful marketing strategy and I must say, you seem to have perfected it. . . Jesus, Sword, war, Sword, war, Jesus

How about sword a tool for protection?

You know, the painstaking effort you put in choosing your words is admirable, another example Military Confrontation. I mean wow! I am already envisioning military auxiliary - armored trucks, machine guns and the lot when the reality is there were 72 men (at most).

Military confrontation with 72 men, whose professions (the ones we know) range from fishermen, carpenter to tax collectors, armed with 2 swords.

Military confrontation with 72 men, whom Christ called lambs he is sending in the midst of wolves.

Military confrontation with 72 men, who the most they could do when Christ was arrested was cut one person’s ear off.

Wow! Some military confrontationist these one.

Do you see what I mean? LOL.

Not to take the issue to a whole other level. . but I’d also like to introduce another interpretation of the above verse. It states that says Christ was speaking figuratively and the sword he was talking about was one of the tools in The Amour of God as described in Ephesians 6 13 – 17

13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

There are also many interpretations of Jesus’ Response “That is Enough”

(1) Some understand the words as a rebuke to the disciples. If that were the case, then Jesus was saying, “Enough of this kind of talk!” (Leon Morris, The Gospel according to St. Luke: An Introduction and Commentary, p. 310)

(2) Others understand the words to denote the fact that even two swords are enough to show human inadequacy at stopping God’s plan for the death of Christ. Swords could not stop God’s purpose and plan.

(3) Jesus may simply have been saying that two swords were adequate for the 12 of them.

(4) Others see the clause in conjunction with the quotation from Isaiah and understand Jesus to mean that by possessing two swords they would be classified by others as transgressors or criminals. This fourth view seems preferable. [BKC, at Luke 22]

Before we go any further, I want to make it very clear that I am not trying to change your mind on anything because I honestly couldn’t care less what path you or anyone have chosen for themselves. . . some people will see this as very unchristian like and that's fine. I don’t think I have gotten to that point where I think other people’s “salvation” is my responsibility. I am doing this. . . correcting your misrepresentation for the sake of people who might be reading this and not knowing any better or having no desire to look deeper,  decide to take your word as gospel (no pun intended)

About the act of violence that is the overturning of the table, I found this nice article which sheds some light on it

There are two  incidences of Jesus clearing the temple courtyard, one described by John and the other by the Synoptic gospels:

13. And the Passover of the Jews was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
14 And He found in the temple those who were selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the moneychangers seated.
15 And He made a scourge of cords, and drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen; and He poured out the coins of the moneychangers, and overturned their tables;
16 and to those who were selling the doves He said, “Take these things away; stop making My Father’s house a house of merchandise.”
17 His disciples remembered that it was written, “Zeal for Thy house will consume me.” 
18 The Jews therefore answered and said to Him, “What sign do You show to us, seeing that You do these things?”
19 Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
20 The Jews therefore said, “It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?”
21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body. 22 When therefore He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the Scripture, and the word which Jesus had spoken. (John 2.13ff)

And Jesus entered the temple and cast out all those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the moneychangers and the seats of those who were selling doves. 13 And He *said to them, “It is written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer’; but you are making it a robbers‘ den.”  (Matt 21.12ff)

And they *came to Jerusalem. And He entered the temple and began to cast out those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the moneychangers and the seats of those who were selling doves; 16 and He would not permit anyone to carry goods through the temple. 17 And He began to teach and say to them, “Is it not written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer for all the nations’? But you have made it a robbers‘ den.” (Mark 11.15ff)

And He entered the temple and began to cast out those who were selling, 46 saying to them, “It is written, ‘And My house shall be a house of prayer,’ but you have made it a robbers‘ den.” (Luke 19.45)

Let start with some observations about the setting and event:

1. The moneychangers and animal merchants had their stalls set up in the outer court of the Temple, in the Court of the Gentiles. This had not always been so, but by Jesus' time it was a major disruption of worship:

"At one time the animal merchants set up their stalls across the Kidron Valley on the slopes of the Mount of Olives, but at this point they were in the temple courts, doubtless in the Court of the Gentiles (the outermost court)" [D. A. Carson, John]

"Jesus' complaint is not that they are guilty of sharp business practices and should therefore reform their ethical life, but that they should not be in the temple area at all. How dare you turn my Father's house into a market! He exclaims. Instead of solemn dignity and the murmur of prayer, there is the bellowing of cattle and bleating of sheep. Instead of brokenness and contrition, holy adoration and prolonged petition, there is noisy commerce…by setting up in the court of the Gentiles, they have excluded Gentiles who might have come to pray…" [Carson, John]

"The court in which all this noisy and boisterous traffic took place was the only court to which Gentiles might go when they wished to pray or mediate in the Temple. They ought to have been able to worship in peace. Instead they found themselves in the middle of a noisy bazaar. ' [Morris, John]

2. It is amazing that they would even let the animals into the courtyard:

"At first sight it seems unlikely that animals would be allowed into any of the Temple courts, because of the risk of their getting loose and defiling the sanctuary. But V. Eppstein argues from Rosh Hash. 31a and other passages in the Babylonian Talmud that there was a dispute between Caiaphas and the Sanhedrin, as a result of which the high priest allowed merchants to set up animal stalls within the temple precincts." [Morris, John (rev ed)]

3. The physical actions involving the whip were directed at the animals, and was forceful but not cruel:

"Jesus' physical action was forceful, but not cruel: one does not easily drive out cattle and sheep without a whip of cords. Still, his action could not have generated a riotous uproar, or there would have been swift reprisals from the Roman troops in the fortress of Antonia overlooking part of the temple complex."

"The driving out of the animals from the temple area (the outer court) serves as a symbolic act. The implication is that the animals should not have been in the temple at all, and it is in this sense that the denunciation of the market atmosphere must be understood. The whip (15) was necessary to control the animals rather than to inflict any punishment upon them. " [New Bible Commentary, at John 2]

4. Commentators see this more as a 'demonstration'; a dramatic, stern, and prophetic act of expulsion [e.g. Richard Bauckham], more driven by the personal power of Jesus and not by some quickly-fashioned "lash of twisted rushes" [Schonfield's phrase, cited by Morris, John (rev)]:

"Jesus made a whip of "cords" (more probably "rushes" and proceeded to drive the traders from the Temple with their goods. It is clear that it was not so much the physical force as the moral power he employed that emptied the courts. 'It was surely the blazing anger of the selfless Christ rather than the weapon which He carried which really cleared the Temple Courts of its noisy, motley throng.'…He commanded the dovesellers to take their birds away." [Morris, John: notice he didn't let the birds out--he didn’t cause loss of property, for even the cattle/sheep owners would eventually recover their animals, just as the moneychangers would get the coins from their respective nationalities sorted out.]

"On the necessity of sternness in the face of evil Wright quotes Ruskin, that it is 'quite one of the crowning wickednesses of this age that we have starved and chilled our faculty of indignation'" [Morris, John]

"Luke's narration follows this pattern well, with Jesus entering the Court of the Gentiles, the outer court of the time, where he engages in what Luke describes as a brief, small-scale, but highly symbolic censuring of the temple systems." [Joel B. Green, Luke]

"This notice indicates that Jesus expelled the merchants from the Court of the Gentiles in order to safeguard rights and privileges sanctioned by God. The use of the forecourt as an open market effectually prevented the one area of the Temple which was available to the Gentiles form being a place of prayer." [William Lane, Mark]

"His cleansing of the temple was what would have been recognized in Old Testament times as a prophetic action—the kind of action by which a prophet would occasionally confirm his spoken message and bring it home to the people around him. Jesus protested that the temple was being prevented from fulfilling its purpose as “a house of prayer for all nations” (see Is 56:7)." [HSOBx

5. This act of Jesus was not the act of an individual Israelite (like almost all of His others); it was an act of leadership/governance. As such, it would entail the lawful and legitimate use of appropriate force for timely expulsion or judgment (if necessary), such as will occur upon His return to earth as Vice Regent. That His action was so understood as an act of authority by the Jewish leaders is clear from their response in verse 18-22, demanding a sign "to justify such a display of authority as that which ventured to regulate the temple." [Carson, John]

6. In fact, Jesus actually ended up enforcing existing rabbinic policy, which was NOT being enforced by them:

"Jesus was appalled at this disregard fro the sanctity of an area consecrated for the use of Gentiles who had not yet become full proselytes to Judaism. His action in driving out the merchants and their patrons, overturning the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves, and standing guard over the court to prohibit its use as a thoroughfare, was an astonishing display of zeal for God's honor and respect for the sacredness of the Temple precincts. Ironically, Jesus' spirited protest entailed a rigorous application of existing provisions, which prohibited anyone from entering the Temple Mount with a staff, sandals or his wallet, and which specifically denied the right to make of the forecourt a 'short by-path' (M. Berachoth IX.5; TB Berachoth 54a)." [William Lane, Mark]

There are a number of elements in the story that suggest that it is not as 'violent' as is sometimes visualized:

1. The fact that the Roman guards did not intervene--as they did with the riot over Paul in Acts 21--strongly suggests a "lower key" visualization.

2.        The seats of the dove sellers and the counters of the moneychangers were simply parts of their merchant 'stalls'. The money-tables would not have had much loose coinage on them--the coins would have been in bags behind the counter, and so the common image of many coins scattering everywhere is likely false. And it would not have taken but one example of 'pouring out' of a money bag to get everyone else's 'cooperation' in leaving!

3.        Jesus simply ordered the dove sellers out (and probably the merchants too, although they would have followed their larger animals out of the temple anyway), and the makeshift whip/lash was for the animals.

4.        There was no indication that any human being was assaulted, hit, harmed, or hurt; and the "scourge" was hastily constructed of rushes/weeds pulled out of the cracks in the Courtyard floor/walls (not a whip of the sort He was scourged with).

5.        Jesus forbade subsequent entry simply by his presence, to any non-worshipper who tried to enter.

6.        The many OT/Tanach prophetic references are ample indication that Jesus was acting in prophetic confrontation/symbolic mode.

7.        One should never confuse zeal, judgment, drama, prophetic symbolic action--or even forceful expulsion of destructive agents--with acts of unlawful physical aggression or 'violence' or 'lashing out at enemies'.

Perhaps William's assessment is the most realistic:

"First, then, back to the observation that it is reported as a "violent" act. Part of the reported action, blocking the way of traffic, perhaps involving the obtaining of animals for sacrifice, is more in the mode of nonviolent protest. Overturning the tables of the money changers may be viewed as "violent," but it should be noted that the entire protest is of very short duration. It is not narrated as though there is any intent to harm anyone, to maintain a long occupation, or to assert Jesus' power over the Temple and its dealings. It is clearly in the tradition of the prophets' dramatic representations of Israel's situation and God's word of judgment. In a situation of oppression and a brewing mimetic crisis, it is impossible to avoid the taint of violence if one is to act decisively. The word decision itself, a "cutting off" or "cutting from," already suggests that the harmonious reconciliation of all persons and elements in a situation will not take place. This is the human condition in the world of differences, especially when these differences no longer manage the mimetic desire and rivalry that are ever present and effective." [BVS:228f]

This act was one of dramatic disruption, not destruction and assault. This is so far removed from the violent options  that He rejected:

Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place.” (John 18.36)

Then Simon Peter, who had a sword, drew it and struck the high priest’s servant, cutting off his right ear. (The servant’s name was Malchus.)  Jesus commanded Peter, “Put your sword away! Shall I not drink the cup the Father has given me?”  (John 18.10ff)

“Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.  Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?” At that time Jesus said to the crowd, “Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? (Matt 26.52ff)

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/violentx.html

I like the link because it was in response to emotionally charged question from people who saw the overturning of the tables as an act of violence.

Now I'm gonna go [img]http://www.gifmix.net/smiley.php?image=puking-smilies/1.gif[/img] coz of the nasty things I've seen.

Note to self
Never eat any form of meat outside.

Why Africans are the best footballer players.

Sarah Palin's Bridge to Nowhere

Dentist Schmentist. . .

Introducing the latest in Do it yourself dental work

Hanging out. . . and on.

Why Did Bush implemente the no Child left Behind Policy?
Because he can relate. . .

@ KarmaMod
Rotflmao! I am trying to, honestly I am. . . Okay, I'll put more effort.


@ DeepZone
Lmao! Me a tribalist? Hare you looking for somebody to join your haboki ating parry? Oney, the day hi hincite ate hand hanger hon hanother uman being with my words like you do ere heveryday, his the day you can call me a tribalist, Huntil then henjoy your position as the ead tribalist, stateist, languageist hand whatever hist you can hadd to the list.



@Kekejolade
Relass my sixter, hi meant no arm habeg. Hit his hall hin good fun o. More blezzings to you hand yours hand hevery one hof hus from Nigeria, ea great nation with himmesurable hand hunsurpassed beauty.


Heverybody please take hit heasy, hit his not that serious.

Hi hagree with this topic. Yorubas hare the most heducated of hall the tribes hin Nigeria. The way they talk his sweet hin my hears, when they come to my ouse, I like to sit down on my cusin siar hand liszen to them talk hall day, hespecially when we have sicken. . . fried sicken not roasted and minerals.

Hour talks range from Hintellectual like the philosophy of Haristotle hand Enything with Harithmetic to the Hordinary like Harmani, Esh & Ehm dezigns. Hi can't cunt the amunt of time they make me laugh with their himpressive knowledge hof hall they know.

They know Heverything, Heverything I say!

Ow Hi love the Yorubas. 

LMAO! I don't which is funnier, how the question is phrased or what is being asked. 

The only way I know is by casting a spell

During your most fertile time arrange three candles in a triangle.

At the top should be a yellow one (Sun),

To the left a green one (Earth)

To the right a blue one (Rain).

These are the symbols of the Father.

Take a dried Oak Leaf and in red ink write the following:

[I]"Sow in my womb a son as tall and healthy as the mighty Oak".[/I]

Place the leaf in the center of the triangle.

Next, place an acorn on top of the leaf, repeating the following:

[I]"From this seed is born the Sacred Oak

From this union is born my beloved Son"[/I]

Visualize a tree growing, from the first shoots pushing through lush soil, the slender sapling, all the way up until the tree stands strong and proud. Its leafy arms spread above you. Hold this image in your mind for a few minutes. Picture the leaves rustling with the breeze, the sun shining through here and there.

Now, picture an infant lying at the base of the tree, gently cradled in the protruding roots.

Picture him as you would like your son to be, happy, healthy, smiling.

Hold this image for a few moments.

When you are ready, take the acorn and place it under the mattress before making love.

Let the candles burn down.

Each night before attempting to conceive, repeat, using new candles but the same leaf and acorn.

Keep in mind, this spell increases the likelihood of conceiving the gender you seek. This means you may not conceive at all if the potential child was of the opposite gender! So think long and hard about using this spell.


Good Luck.

LOL! Getting worked up? Oy!

If you've read the thread and you don't get what he was trying to say with his quote

then there is no point discussing this further.

Hey, I am a big. . . HUGE believer in agreeing to disagree.

See, You understanding my point (or not) is not a matter of life and death for me.

I shall not worship that which ye worship.

Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion


Later, my sister in God, see you on a less "serious" thread. 

ayinba1:
@Sisikill,

Sorry I did not find where olabowale called jesus, "violent". I think you have been unduly harsh on him. Christians present Jesus as a meek and gentle lamb who turned the other cheek even before one was struck., And they make Islam out to be all about wars and "violence". Ola is only pointing out the truth from the bible itself and it's the right thing to do.

Let us be fair if we want to be and not get carried away by emotions. All that you posted is pretty much same as Olabowale posted.

One with Allah nko, is majority!

@Olabowale,

Allah is with you!

He pointed out the truth from the Bible? What truth? How has what he quoted proved that Jesus isn't a meek and gentle lamb who turned the other cheek? Because he told his disciples to buy swords and refused to sit back and fold his arms while people to defaced the house of God? This make him not meek and gentle?

Again I ask, if you or anyone sees someone making a mockery of the Mosque are you going to sit back and say nothing? Will it be considered MEEK and GENTLE not help people guard themselves?


I'm sorry you think I was unduly harsh on him, I don't think I was because I expected someone like him to know better than to use something like that to make a point for comparison. From a purely debating angle, it does not hold water. . . period.

I'm not saying OP shouldn't share their testimony, I would never do that but is it neccessary to say WHAT ARE MUSLIMS SCARED OF? To me it's was more like setting the thread up to fail. Look at this right now, instead of us to be rejoicing with her/him for this huge thing that has happened in their life, we are forced to rebut senseless points. . . because not doing so perpetuates a wrong idea of who Christ is.


Another thing, this topic has been moved to the islamic section, how many people know it was moved and not deleted? Better yet, how many people (who aren't Muslims) visit this section? Not only has the thread been derailed, they've also managed to put a Kibosh on it.

At one point, we just have to accept it is a time wasting venture trying to make people whose minds are made up, see things the way we want them to and exchanging insults is definitely not the way to go about it. I firmly believe Christians are more equipped to be the BIGGER PEOPLE in situations like this. . . I do.

I forgot to add this -

I think the topic for this thread is very inappropriate. OP, I am happy you are finding enlightenment in Christianity and I understand you want to celebrate it however I think you could have gone about it getting the Muslims involved or disparaging their beliefs.

Just my two cents. . . for whatever it is worth.