₦airaland Forum

Martian: Your analogies and rhetoric are as ridiculous as your fake bible god.

now why are you bringing religion into this

Martian: You're right. Except it wasn't "God" who created the universe. Your "God" is an impostor!!!

The real "God" who created the universe is so complex, that if you tried to figure it/him/her/they out, you will have a brain aneurysm.
That's what it says in the Holy Book of The Way. The book is infallible, just so you know

anyways from your quote you inadvertently agreed that there is a God.

His nature is not up for discussion in this thread, thanks dude

thehomer: Your so called logic terms fails. Humans aren't created, they are born so your conclusion there does not follow.
Also, saying you believe in some God because you can see humans makes no more sense than saying you believe in some God because you see a stone at the bottom of a pool. Such loose associations don't demonstrate anything.

**typing really really slowly** when i make reference to "you" i expected with the level of intelligence spewing around here that the "You" refers to our specie, Man"

"humans aren't created, they are born" and who gave birth to the 1st human?

thehomer: Also, saying you believe in some God because you can see humans makes no more sense than saying you believe in some God because you see a stone at the bottom of a pool. Such loose associations don't demonstrate anything.

are u saying u are a piece of stone

anyways i am teaching based on everyday analogies the "intelligent " folks here can relate with, no need to talk on Virtual particles, radioactive decay, photons bla bla bla.

i defined d word - God.
and gave an explicit relationship between God and the creation.

if you "Man" create a robot
you "Man" are a god unto the robot
and the robot is ur creation.

i also gave an analogy on the attributes of a creation
anything that was not self-made is a Creation and has a Maker, a God.

and i asked simply were you "Man" self made?
if you say yes, then man is a God unto itself, otherwise Man is a creation with a Maker, a God.

Kay 17: No it does translate to that. And self creation is as impossible as miracles.


Its obvious there was a natural process involved in our emergence into the world: reproduction. that's not God

so u agree that Self- Creation of urself is impossible which connates that you agree that you were Created as such u have a Maker, a God.

can u please shed more light on this "natural process" , i want to learn

with all the talk on virtual particles, radioactive decay, proton decay , all the so called "intelligent talk" can u create life as we know it- atleast just a single cell organism, just mix all d particles and do sumtin otherwise accept d truth that God made Man.

Kay 17: ^^^


If I was created, I would have an objectively discernible purpose and the presence of a creator.

basically, because you seemingly feel purposeless about your life - it translates to Self-Creation

Kay 17: ^^^


A problem with God is, if man as ordinary as he is requires a Cause, wouldn't God??

you are jumping the gun.
First step is to determine if you were Created or Self Created
if you admit to being Created - this implies that you have a Maker, a God

if you admit to being Self-Created, i would like you to state that there were no external Hands involved in your Self-Creation.

if a policeman can shoot a common bus driver over =N=20.00 i wonder why they haven't shot this guys stealing their pensions

Kay 17: @snthesis

Atheism is not a theory, not a school of thought in science. Neither is it a religion, those who don't have a religion are atheists, no matter how evangelical they seem to be.

Why is there no God?? I think the God idea is introducing a greater complexity to explain a lesser one. Its too ineffective. I do think Nature is perfectly capable of weaving complexities including us.

A painting found on Mars, would imply its a product of man because we know the causal history of paintings. Nature too has its gallery, beautiful sceneries, even a stain on the wall could betray amazing geometry.

the definition of atheism isnt mine- it was culled from a dictionary.

basically you believe in Nature? in other words you were made by Nature? so do you agree that you werent self created but made?

thehomer: This is not a name, it is a "title". A name is something like Baal, Akhenaten, Jehovah, Vishnu, Jesus, Quetzalcoatl, Thor, Zeus etc. Titles are something like "the greatest", "the most holy" etc. So does he have a name

its a title to you, but a name to me.

thehomer: I thought the thread was requesting for questions. I'm asking questions. I didn't ask on the number of Gods but on why you believe in the particular named God that you believe in.

and my response has always repeatedly been- i believe in HIM because i see the works of His hands. This is akin to an artist being recognised by his paintings.

and in logic terms

If you arent self-Created
it means you have a Maker- a God.

Jack65: Lol! Common people this guy is probably on IT and has nothing better to do with a computer and a free connection. Ignore him, its not worth it.

Is ur existence worth it?

Robinho equalizes

Gamw on Ibra scores

ea7: Jesus christ you are dumb (no offense to stupid people). Humans do make humans through s.x.

jack 65 was right, you ARE a joke. You can't even write properly. The analogy is the same, we see people making these things so it's natural to ask who made this painting.

"Humans make humans through intimacy" who created the sexual organs for female and Male, the necessary exact mix of chromosomes - u nid to read up on ur biology to appreciate the work it took to create you. A MasterCraftsman indeed.

Now I made reference to a simple two/three dimesional object- a painting with no life. And yet you fail to draw inference on sumtin more beautiful- YoU. YOU were fearfully and wonderfully created by God.

"Humans make Humans" is that d best you could come up with, smh

Let me give another analogy
You come into a room to behold a marvelous Painting, ur first ask wud be wow, who's work is this? Y, cos u instinctively know it was created.

Now if u integrate this to the lovely Scenaries around you, you see the works of His hand at every turn and yet it doesn't sound illogical that you think it was as a result of an accident, rather than the Works of a MasterCraftsman- God.

ea7: Lol@kettle calling pot black. Who is the arrogant one "I can't be wrong"? Your own words. Biros are made in factories, we know that. When you see a child who do you ask fo, their maker or their parents? You promised us Logic here, self caused is illogical and irrational. An effect cannot trigger it's cause. Look i am done with you, you are so smug and self satisfied in your own ignorance. It all boils down to, I don't know so goddidit. If I throw an orange on the wall and it makes a mark, I am sure someone like you will say it must have been by design, and again who designed God? The one's animals who survived survived and adapted to their environment, no design there just chance at work.

BE LOGICAL
a biro is made in factories (i.e a greater being than the Biro)
biros dont make biros
Humans Procreate
but the Human Species was made by a higher Being i.e. GOD!!!!!

Marriage is a union of two families- some people esp ladies see it as a means of escape
anyways, in life threatening situations - the extended family deserves to be in the info loop.

harakiri: @snthesis

And what can you bring to the table to prove that this "God" is indeed the creator of heaven and earth other than what your bible says? Hmmmm?

what i bring to the table is simple- the works of His Hands, they are all around you, marvel and being in Awe.the simplest of creatures could never have been designed by accident. its easier for a biro to be accidently created than for an amoeba to be created and yet when we see a biro we acknowledge that it was made and cant seem to fathom that a greater Being made You.

harakiri: @snthesis

You've got to be $hitting me. Is this supposed to be a "logical" argument?

its either you were created in which case you acknowledge a Maker/ God
or You were selfcreated in which case you are God

what i sense from Atheist is a form of pride "i am logical", "i am intelligent"

since you are of the denial of a Creator, do u claim to have made ur self? if you did, did u choOse ur features, ur RACE, ETC. AND THE ANSWER IS OBVIOUS nO, nO NO..... MEANING U R HELPLESS TO UR FATE- IF YOU DIDNT CREATE URSELF IT IMPLIES THAT YOU WERE MADE AND HAVE A GOD.

ea7: Who is wu, and is he your God?lol
now srsly, did u check evolution, man and other modern apes branched out from a common ancestor.
If you mean the origin of life, there is no strong theory yet.
And self created is a silly concept. The effect causes the cause which causes the effect. Do you make sense to yourself?

can u confirm- ur believe/lack of believe is in Evolution?.

lets b logical - "the effect causes the cause which causes the effect"
"if u mean origin of life, there is no strong theory yet" - and you are living your life waiting for that so called "strong theory" smh

ea7: since you are smart enough to use wiki , i implore you to wiki evolutionary theory. Theory in the scientific meaning.
And I said if you want to open that who created who created sh.i.te, i wil ask you this who created God? Apply ochams razor. The universe is not a factory that someone creates stuff, we apply that to our environment where we see things caused and created by man. We do not see universes made by god. The buck has to stop somewhere, I am content with stopping it at universe till further notice.
@ ususky are you a deist or agnostic? Thanks for helping me articulate my thoughts in your response.

u havent answered my question
Wu created the 1st man?

usisky: 1) I fault the theists and the atheists for not providing any proof to substatiate their position/decision.

2) i adressed theist in my post cos you are a theist and the originator of this thread.

3) the robot analogy- incoherent with logic: assume that such a robot is able to develope sophisticated thought patterns like that of humans, would it find it difficult accepting it was designed by a human? NO! WHY? Because it would've witnessed such a human re-creating its kind(robot).that will be sufficient proof.
in the absence of an irrefutable proof from such a God, questions such as: 1)why God rather than gods? 2) Why there is suffering and evil? will continue to be asked.
The only way to prove such a God, is if the God Himself provides a proof capable of withstanding scientific scrutiny.

the proof is in definition
its either Yes or No, theres no inbetween.

its either you were created in which case you acknowledge a Maker/ God
or You were selfcreated in which case you are God.

can Man allude to being Self-Created

2) let me clarify further on your assumption- a robot is made on Earth and then sent to the Moon but with an indepth programming on how to sustain itself with the resources provided and we (Man) watch the daily activities of the Robot (akin to watching Big brother. once the Robot has reached the destination a signal is sent to activate it and the entertainment begins.

ea7: hey guys, god is on nairaland. He is omniscient and is debating like an idiot. Well then HE WHO CANNOT BE WRONG. HERE IS A FLAW MAN IS SELF CREATING.
We see men as coming from other men. We have evolution and big bang theory.

and wu created the very 1st Man

very nice

ea7: I am telling you that analogy is flawed. If i say man is poop and god an ass does that make it true,

everythin i stated is true and can not be flawed

Man made Machines
thus Man is a God unto the Machines

it can only be flawed if the Machines were self created without any assistance from Man
then the Machines can clearly state Man is not its God

usisky: @Op & people with similar agenda(convincing the atheists)

Is it really true that the average atheist has got sound and logical reasoning than the average theist? The more i see theists bring forth such proposition as that of the OP, the more i am inclined to believe that the atheist are in fact smarter. Why? Well, look at the ops post. Here,the op delves into one of the most heated argument in the history of philosophy,science and religion i.e God vs no God, or creationism vs no creationism. Yet, the op begins with: "atheists do you have any question about your maker-God". Knowing fully that an atheist does not accept the God construct. In any logical reasoning, the first step is to establish a premise. Give strong arguments why such premise must be true. The soundness of the conclusion drawn,depends on the soundness of the arguments put in defense of the premise. To expect the atheist to accept the possibility of God, is to firstly provide irrefutable proof why such construct is viable. the absence of such, Simply leads to never ending debates with no common platform to fall back to.

can you fault the logical sequence below
Atheism: the theory that God does not exist

hmm!!! i think you are overthinking and missing the point in totality- uve skipped a boundary. i will break it down for you with a simple example.

Man made Machines e.g a Robot
Man thus created a Robot
Logically Man is God unto the Robot

now lets go a step further;
assume this Robot was built with programs, processors and all the gimmicks necessary to make it seemingly think, it can think and act independently e.g deep Blue. in other words it has "intelligence"
now armed with this "intelligence" it begins to question who made it? if Man made me? who made Man? and who made the one that Made man and it goes on and on and on-- (till it short circuits ) and such it decides there is no Creator
it has forgotten the fundamental fact (Boundaries -lower and upper limits) Man made it, as such his allegiance is to His God -Man. anything out of that thought process is folly.

ea7: okay.
In ur analogy man=god
pc=man
but in rl men are spawned from other men and computers assembled in factories by men. If a computer were sentient, it would know man exists by the fingers on the key board if nothing else. We know God by...um...
2) The reasoning in my post about infnite creators is sound. There is no evidence for a creator in real life, if we postulate that there must be a creator then that creator must have a creator. Direct answer pls. All analogies=cool story bro.

smh

go and read on Deep Blue

i gave u a very simple analogy and u chose not to understand- you chose rather to b blind.i put it to you in a logical form associated with wat obtains around earth at this tyme, devoid of believes,religion and yet you still chose not to comprehend.

klassic: make i pay 300k hope say d car dey in good condition . mean d engine? call me if u dey interested make u gimme d location make i cum check am. 08050718913

call me- we can arrange a meeting, come with ur mech for verification

ea7: @snthesis that's nice. Let me do you one better.let man be a seed and God a plant. Or let man be poo and god an ass or let man be a virus and god the host, they are all analogies and uh-the computer is right.
But analgy failure, we see comouters being made, we use computers. Computers are not sentient. Man and computers interact. There is evidence for man around. We do not see universesbeing made, we do ot see men popping into existence, we do not have evidence of man being created. Man is organic computer is not.
Analogy breakdown.

im sorry , ur post/analogy is not logical
do a simple sequence or better yet prove the illogicality of my sequence

Kay 17: Every man is a product of his environment, of his Source. Evil/imperfection is imprinted into him as a potential to be realized. Why can't a man fly, but yet perpetuate the most horrific acts??

@Kay 17
are you evil?, are you a serial Killer?, are you an armed robber?
if you arent any of these does that mean you are perfect? no the answers is probably you chose not to. You cant blame the imperfections of the world on God, the evil acts are carried out by Men who chose to do them. Every one born with the ability to do Right or Wrong, dont ever blame the wrong choices of certain individuals on God.

btw - u r derailing my thread

ea7: That is what is implied here.
Procreate=create(in this context) . Ur point?. If you choose to open that can of worms, i might as well dump it on your head. Who made God? If he is unncreated then that means somethings can be un created making your argument that we need a creator baseless, if he is then we ask who made that cre8or ad infifnitum.

hmm!!! i think you are overthinking and missing the point in totality- uve skipped a boundary. i will break it down for you with a simple example.

Man made Machines e.g a Robot
Man thus created a Robot
Logically Man is God unto the Robot

now lets go a step further;
assume this Robot was built with programs, processors and all the gimmicks necessary to make it seemingly think, it can think and act independently e.g deep Blue. in other words it has "intelligence"
now armed with this "intelligence" it begins to question who made it? if Man made me? who made Man? and who made the one that Made man and it goes on and on and on-- (till it short circuits ) and such it decides there is no Creator
it has forgotten the fundamental fact (Boundaries -lower and upper limits) Man made it, as such his allegiance is to His God -Man. anything out of that thought process is folly.

thehomer: You didn't answer any of my questions. Here they are again.

1. Does this God of yours have a name?
2. Why do you believe in this particular God instead of the others?

People aren't created, they are born. Introducing the word "creation" here is what causes the confusion.

i answered your question thru and thru

.

1. i call Him, "The Almighty"
2. clarification: this thread is for atheist! i also went ahead to define Atheism: (the theory or belief that God does not exist)i am not in this thread to discuss weather there are multiple "gods" or not, i'll open another thread for that.

Kay 17: 42 young girls got raped in circumstances which is not of their creation. My question is; why is the world so imperfect??

this is neither hia nor dia, those girls were raped my Men. the Evil of Men make the world imperfect.

ea7: You have now proved the existence of...drumroll...your PARENTS dun.dun.dun.
You are smart enough to realise you can't create yourself but not smart enough to realise you have parents?Lol.
Besides, if you are going there, I do not beleive that there was ever nothing. Either that or an infinite regression of makers.
Oh and you said atheism was a religion. You are right. I'm going back to my sport of not playing football while indulging in my hobby of not collecting stamps.

i dnt knw whr u get ur weed from , but the stuff is pretty strong , where did i eva say Atheism is a religion. Atheism can be liken to an ostrich burying its tiny head in the sand.

your parents didnt create u duh, u were procreated, dont get it twisted.

mazaje: Why can't your god heal amputees and restore their amputated limbs back? Your god did not create humans beings allah did, it is written in the koran, go and read it. . .

wu is my God?
anyways thanks for acknowledgeing the existence of a creator. we will discuss His name in another thread. This thread is solely for atheist.