₦airaland Forum

Dtruthspeaker:
So how do I convince a person who does not believe that the Bible speaks the Truth?



The only way I know is Only when such a person speaks the Truth that He knows to be the Truth, in His Heart!

Show me, I will tell you whether it is sufficient for me or not...

Play your part first..

Dtruthspeaker:
Sorry friend, with you it is must be a long story. There is no shortcuts, for you have a million issus with the Bible which you have not disclose but this is the issue you want addressed.

Meanwhile the Belief in Christ Jesus is dependent on your Belief that the Bible has told you the Truth and tells you the Truth Always.

But you have already Confessed That You Do Not Believe that The Stories in the Bible are True, how then can I proceed to Almost the End of the Bible, which you do not believe, to convince you of the Truth of it?



No, son, it is not possible. We have answer your disbelief at the beginning of the Bible before we proceed to the end of it.

No child learnt to do Simultaneous Equations before Knowing to Count 1,2,3,...

When did God instruct us to believe in the things you believe about Jesus.. If there is none,why do you want me to waste my time on it... More importantly why are you?..

Dtruthspeaker:

So now we all can see that you are spilling much Unfounded shits! And all your beliefs and Propositions are completely baseless and the Fabrication of Wicked False Accusations.[b][/b]

Your heart and soul is screwed therefore everything about you Must be Screwed, including your interpretations of events (I am not insulting you, only making known my observations of you)

You are exactly like a sars and policemen who Only See Criminals and Crimes, suspicious of every scenario and they can never see the things that are Bonafide!

Do you work in any of these "See Only Wickedness Organisations like the Police or Security Outfits?

If you do not work in any of these organisations, then it is because you are indeed a Wicked Person for it is the Law "As A Man is, So he thinketh" (I just reversed the Statement of Law)

And this what the Bible refers to as "An Evil Eye" or "thine heart (soul) is evil"

This is the first I was facing with you which I now understand.

The Bible Is Always Honest, Bonafide (Written in Good Conscience and Good Faith) and Verified Truths not fabricated as your Propositions and your False Accusation.

So now that this is Settled, I would Present what I found and verified and solidly backed by Scriptures, to be Honest and True.

No Fabrications, No Conjurings, just Plain Natural Truths And Law!

Is there anywhere in the old testament where God instructed us to give our life to the Messiah or believe in the death of the Messiah in other to be saved from his wrath.. That is the bone of contention..

If there is any point it out, I will follow you..
God never said the Messiah will be a sin sacrifice, if you think he did, point it out..
No long story..

Heartlessbanker:
[color=#990000][/color]john the Baptist john the Baptist

LOL, that is baptism.. It is the priest that anoint a king with oil, just as Samuel did to Saul....

MrPresident1:
1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard thatantichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; 

John did not write this letter to you.. He wrote it to the people of his generation.. Don't you think they are the one to witness these stuff..?

Dtruthspeaker:
I have reviewed the following passages you supplied


And they are about prophecies, not Proof as you said "God rejected him."

I asked to the effect, if you have Biblical Proof exhibiting "God's Rejection" of the Lineages of Christ Provided either in Luke or in Mathew, which you have not supplied.

So now you have 3 questions to Answer

Do you think you can supply irrefutable Biblical Evidence to back up your assertion?

Messiah means anmoited king.. Anointed with a special oil for that purpose.. God promised Solomon that the kingship will not depart from his lineage...

Who anointed Jesus as king?

Blabbermouth:
Ohh my my my ... This is sweet! Tell me something;
1. Prophets and prophecy plays a principal role in Israel and a vital key to the Jews. Tell me something, why did prophecy end with Malachi? This is a big occurrence and if what you are saying were to be true, tell me where it was foretold (in the Torah) that prophecy would stop with Malachi.
PS: I believe you do not know the role prophesy plays and the key role that a prophet play... Else, you would have known that Moses, Joshua, Isaiah and co. Kind of prophets will only stop under a single but significant condition.
2. Newsflash! That same Jesus you failed to believe existed prophesied that the temple will be destroyed..
Newsflash! The Order of worship in the Old testament style is not complete without the temple and the ark of covenant.
3. Don't you see already?! Those things (ark, veil, temple and co.) are nowhere to be found after the C.E... Why? When a better temple is built there is no need for an ineffective temple anymore. You won't see those things in Israel anymore because they have served their purpose and no longer significant.

Summary:
The C.E (real or imaginary) wroughted many notable occurrences that strongly indicated that someone called Jesus of Nazareth was real. Of these were...
1. Closing up of Prophethood after the order of Moses, Joshua, Elijah and the Likes.
2. A foreseeing that the temple will be destroyed completely... As it has been rendered practically useless.
3. Sacred items that are paramount in the Old testament worship are nowhere to be found.

Sir, Jesus did exist. Not only that, he was the messiah.

Did God ever say we must worship or go through the Messiah to get to him?..

budaatum:
The person who gave you life and loves you the most on this cruel earth gave you a copy of probably the only book she had and very likely the biggest, which she likely read to you from when you were inside her womb and long after you were born and taught you to read yourself, and because you cannot see how it has benefitted others who read it "But yiu just short ur brain down" and can not be bothered?

Bothered to believe or understand, since we've established you read it, or does the difference not matter?

Maybe you don't understand the purpose of this thread yet.. Let me remind you.. I am saying without all conviction that there was never any need for the Jesus story as God has already provided everything in the Tanakh.. They Jesus is a Roman creation..i am not an atheist.

I just obey God's laws as contained in our omenani or Torah.. And leave my life.. Because at the end of the day.. My body will be committed to mother earth and my spirit back to God, because he gave it... I am yet to find how Jesus fits into all these..?

Blabbermouth:
Ohh my my my ... This is sweet! Tell me something;
1. Prophets and prophecy plays a principal role in Israel and a vital key to the Jews. Tell me something, why did prophecy end with Malachi? This is a big occurrence and if what you are saying were to be true, tell me where it was foretold (in the Torah) that prophecy would stop with Malachi.
PS: I believe you do not know the role prophesy plays and the key role that a prophet play... Else, you would have known that Moses, Joshua, Isaiah and co. Kind of prophets will only stop under a single but significant condition.
2. Newsflash! That same Jesus you failed to believe existed prophesied that the temple will be destroyed..
Newsflash! The Order of worship in the Old testament style is not complete without the temple and the ark of covenant.
3. Don't you see already?! Those things (ark, veil, temple and co.) are nowhere to be found after the C.E... Why? When a better temple is built there is no need for an ineffective temple anymore. You won't see those things in Israel anymore because they have served their purpose and no longer significant.

Summary:
The C.E (real or imaginary) wroughted many notable occurrences that strongly indicated that someone called Jesus of Nazareth was real. Of these were...
1. Closing up of Prophethood after the order of Moses, Joshua, Elijah and the Likes.
2. A foreseeing that the temple will be destroyed completely... As it has been rendered practically useless.
3. Sacred items that are paramount in the Old testament worship are nowhere to be found.

Sir, Jesus did exist. Not only that, he was the messiah.

LOL.. Very very funny.. Do you really know what messiah mean?

You think God made a mistake.. I pity you..

The Christian church/ catholic church was born...
Eusebius more likely than not is the author of the gospel of Mark. Who scholars agree was the first to be written. Others where developed from it..

Afterwards, John crysostom edited the works of apollinius oftyna and passed them off as the letters of Paul.. None of those letters ever mention an earthly Jesus or any of the stories associated with him.. None. No angel visiting Mary, no 3 wise men.. Nothing..

They added it to the Jewish Tanakh because they wanted to say they are the new people of God.. Propaganda which has fuelled the anti semitism in the world up to this day..

Will send you unbiased scholarly articles for further reading.

budaatum:
Did you not read I said there's nothing like that in the book?

Note that you still have not answered my question and have never said if reading it made you less intelligent!

Go on, where did the Roman's get the idea from and why they super glued it to the Jewish scriptures?

Judaism happens to be the national religion of the jews, this religion, Was created by Ezra after their Babylonian exile. Marduk told Cyrus to free all his captives. Ezra was asked to write the Torah and take it along to teach the jews.. Much of the stories in there were adaptation from the Babylonian epics.. Marduk is the creator of the universe hence he used king nebochadnezzer to bring his people to Babylon to learn about him..as nebochadnezzer was also his messiah.. Or annioted king..
Babylon was also the center of several cults and much of these was also taken along to Jerusalem. One of this cult is the cult of inanna or queen of heaven.. She is lucifer and morning star or venus..
When Rome became world power, the ceasers tried to consolidate and increase the empire and most of these wars had religious implications..

It was emperor Constantine who saw that religion was a big stumbling block in achieving domination gathered all the religious leaders in the empire to nicea to fashion a single religion for the empire.
So many gods where tabled for consideration, after almost 2 years of deliberations they settled for Marduk... But in the Babylonian tales Marduk was the son of Enki.. So they had to find out the relationship between both.. Some said he was God, others said he was man.. So after much in other to satisfy both Athanasius said he was both God and man... A vote was taken and the majority carried the day..
Afterwards the nicean creed was drawn up and endorsed by all but 3 delegates.. Who declined.

From the ancient Babylonian scriptures eusebius was commanded to prepare a uniform account. "make it to astonish.. Was emperor Constantine order and they where written accordingly.. So says eusebius in his history of the church...

http://www.bobkwebsite.com/belmythvjesusmyth.html

budaatum:
So who's copy did you read?

My mum..

budaatum:
Can you explain to me why I should bother to show you something that is not in a book that you have not bothered to read?

Here. Read it. That way, when you talk about what is written in it we would all at least know you bothered to read it, and on top of that, you would sound informed and more knowledgeable.

I never said I have never read it, I said I have never owned one.. Big difference..

DappaD:
This philosophical view of yours is one of the major reasons you're in this mess.

But you are not providing a refutal.. Or deep inside you, you know I might be right....

The letter killeth, we are Gods just having a human experience... The holy books are about us...

budaatum:
Can you explain to me why I should bother to show you something that is not in a book that you have not bothered to read?

Here. Read it. That way, when you talk about what is written in it we would all at least know you bothered to read it, and on top of that, you would sound informed and more knowledgeable.

Just say there is none... So I can educate you where the Roman's got the idea from and why they super glued it to the Jewish scriptures..

Dtruthspeaker:
I never concerned myself with the genealogy but
"In Luke 3 the genealogy doesn't go through Solomon as required" why must it go through Solomon and not Nathan as Luke said?

"and in Matthew 1 the genealogy is rejected because it goes though Jeconiah." Who is he that rejects it and has power to validly reject it?

Read the passages.. God rejected him..

budaatum:
Obligated? Someone is asking you to refuse to use your own well developed mind and just believe that God impregnated another man's wife?

Show me them so I can join my boot and we can kick them together after we finish looking into your reasons for your weak feeling of obligation.

Just one question. Do you see any relationship to what you say below?


Any impregnating there at all?


Let us get one thing straight. buda does not tell anyone to do what buda would never ever do. It is you who has not bothered to read the book. buda bothers and in it is it clearly written that believing is a thing demons do. See it written:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/11663600_20200604102351774_jpeg_jpeg0a6707a5c919e2761327fab9920679aa

As you can see, it makes one tremble in fear, and is not exactly worth emulating unless one intends to worship the opposite if God. You may read my view here on believing here.
https://www.nairaland.com/5907043/why-dont-believe-everything-read#90363647 But I guess you never read the book before coming on here to tell us the book you never bothered to read is of no benefit.


So, "yiu just short ur brain down" and do not read a book but think you qualify to come on here and discuss the benefit of a book you never read?

Can somebody here please confirm that sonmvayina has not been mentioning the content of a book he never read.


Some others answer: Improve it.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12117449_20200809145758252_jpeg_jpeg937a481dd9a596b8350dc6866c20baa8

Though I don't know why I bother since you never bothered reading the book.

Please can you show me where God said we should believe in the death of the Messiah in other to be saved from his wrath.

DappaD:
This your own case I no understand sha.
Carry on.

It is like a story.. Or a movie.. That you watch, the characters and actors are all fictional.. But at the end of it.. You ask yourself what did I learn from that story or film.. Then somebody teaches you about it.. And you learn.. Let me give you an example..

You read about God killing Onan for failing to impregnate his brothers wife.. And spilling his seed.. What is it to learn from the story, what do you take from it.. Well, the story teaches us the dangers of pleasure without responsibility... Sex is the greatest pleasure known to man..
Or you watch a movie of Peter pan. And you realize the story is about friendship..
The story is not an eye witness story.. Or account.. I don't think the writers will want to bore you with a tale they never witness..

Think.. Think..

All I want to see in the old testament is where God instructed people to give their life to the Messiah or believe in the death of the Messiah in other to be saved from a hell he created for his devil and his angels...... Or where he said the Messiah will be a demi God... I will believe.. If not why are you not researching on where the story came from..?

DappaD:
Oh so you can believe and even quote the words of a man–this emperor Julian who you're not sure existed abi?

OK!

So what made you so sure that the OT isn't full of these “monstrous tales” as well?
If it's part of these “tales”, why believe in them since you also have no solid proof of those events which unfolded in ancient Israel?

I don't believe the story, I learn the messages in the story.. All the stories in the Bible are all lies, the letter killeth.. I learn the messages in them.. The Torah is not a history textbook.. It is a manual to guide my step. Like a lamp..

sonmvayina:
1.Prophesy ended on the death of malachi

2. The temple was built in jesusalem, the first was destroyed by the Babylonian the second by the Roman's... The third was supposed to be built by the Messiah so that the daily sacrifice to God can begin.. The ark of the convenant has been lost, but I heard from some notable sources that it is in Washington DC..

3. The temple was destroyed and the Roman's looted it.. There is an arc to commemorate it in the city of Rome.. That I have seen..

Your answers..

In his book 1 of his book titled "against the galileans" emperor Julian has this to say

"9] It is, I think, expedient to set forth to all mankind the reasons by which I was convinced that the fabrication of the Galilaeans is a fiction of men composed by wickedness. Though it has in it nothing divine, by making full use of that part of the soul which loves fable and is childish and foolish, it has induced men to believe that the monstrous tale is truth."

Blabbermouth:
Are you kidding? Those were from Deut 18:15-18... couple that with Jer 31:31-33. Hahahahahahaha, Now you see.

LOL.. I want to believe you are smart... How do they refer to Jesus or a demi God?.

Blabbermouth:
Answer my questions...

Which?..

Nobody has given clear cut evidence of how Jesus is relevant or when God promised to send his son as sacrifice for sin.. I am waiting.

Where is Dtruthspeaker?

Blabbermouth:
Are we clear? Let's move on.
Before I move on to more pressing points, let me digress and help you see something that has always been evident but wasn't seen...
You believe that Jesus was invented by Rome as from the books and articles you've read... I know (or say, believe) that the person of Jesus (on earth) was real and he is the Messiah. Sadly, you don't believe/subscribe to this same thing every Christian believe.. Would it interest you to know that certain things happened after C.E I.e. Christ's era (whether you believe him to be real or not) that strongly indicated that Jesus was real, and also was the chosen one.
Let me ask you (from a Jewish point of view);
1. After the C.E. (Real or invented) name Just one notable prophet with the reputation and the order of the likes of Isaiah, Moses, Elijah, Ezekiel and so on. Name just one prophet please!
2. Where is the temple that Solomon built? Where is the ark of covenant?
3. Where is the veil that covered the holies from the most holy place?

The answers to this will tilt the cursor to strongly point to one of these;
1. Jesus was real and He was the chosen one
2. The character of Jesus was invented by the romans..

1.Prophesy ended on the death of malachi

2. The temple was built in jesusalem, the first was destroyed by the Babylonian the second by the Roman's... The third was supposed to be built by the Messiah so that the daily sacrifice to God can begin.. The ark of the convenant has been lost, but I heard from some notable sources that it is in Washington DC..

3. The temple was destroyed and the Roman's looted it.. There is an arc to commemorate it in the city of Rome.. That I have seen..

Blabbermouth:
Lol... Come on here, you have the Scripture of Isaiah with you.
Isaiah 7:13 "And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David....."
Read in-between the lines and realize that Isaiah wasn't talking specifically to Ahaz but to the Whole Congregation of Israel.
LMAO... You yourself said "Isaiah impregnated her", shock me , was there IVF or some artificial insemination process then? How can Isaiah impregnate her and she still remained a virgin?
For further reference read the succeeding 2 verses and see what kind of child the so-prophecied Immanuel will be.

The word use there is Alma, Alma means a young woman, betulah means virginity..

The woman in question was Isaiah wife.. The sign was for king Ahaz, it was an assurance for him that the two kings will not end his lineage...


7: 15., 16 and 17.

15Cream and honey he shall eat when he knows to reject bad and choose good.

16For, when the lad does not yet know to reject bad and choose good, the land whose two kings you dread, shall be abandoned."

17The Lord shall bring upon you and upon your people and upon your father's house, days which have not come, since the day that Ephraim turned away from Judah, namely, the king of Assyria.

budaatum:
Those who wrote the book you read at the very least, plus all those who have worked all the way through the centuries to place it in your two hands.

Now, answer my question. Are you reaping no benefit from the Word of God that you read?

Am I obligated to believe them? When it can't improve me in any way.. I read or listen to gain knowledge even when I am in a pub..

Not when your asking me to believe that God impregnated another man's wife... That is bull shit and you know it.. But yiu just short ur brain down.. To accept it.. I don't see any reason to.. I wonder what you see..

Funny enough I have never owned a Bible in my entire life.. I don't see the benefit of those who have..

Blabbermouth:
In the book of Exodus, the LORD God himself said to Moses "I have made thee a God to Pharaoh"... He also said " And Aaron will be your spokesman unto the people and he shall be in-stead of a mouth, and you shall be to him in-stead of God"...
That was an order of prophethood that no prophet, No! Not even Joshua operated or ministered as. Only Moses and the Messiah.

Not surprising but very essential, the First (I.e) Moses was the mediator for the first/old covenant. The second I.e. Christ will be/already was and is the mediator of the new covenant.
This is what was meant when he said "...Like unto me;..."
Do well to Unlearn and Relearn, the prophet being prophesied of was not Joshua but the Ha Maschiach.

I don't want your opinion give me old testament quotes to support your claim.. I know about Moses... What about other prophets?

budaatum:
[i]He has come[/i] as the Words that you must read to come to the understanding that you have come to which is why:



Without the Grace and all the effort that placed in your hands the Words of God so you can read and learn to question and seek understanding, you, sonmvayina, would have been one super ignorant dude and you would not be "stay home with my wife and daughter watching Telemundo or any good programme....

So.. It is going smoothly".

Yes or No?

Who sent him

Maximus69:
PEACE achieved!

OK.. If you say so.i am not a judge.. Just a teacher..

budaatum:
He has come as the Words that you must read to come to the understanding that you have come to which is why:



Without the Grace and all the effort that placed in your hands the Words of God so you can read and learn to question and seek understanding, you, sonmvayina, would have been one super ignorant dude and you would not be "stay home with my wife and daughter watching Telemundo or any good programme....

So.. It is going smoothly".

Yes or No?

So are you saying that without Jesus, I wouldn't have known that killing was bad or that stealing was bad.. We had our own omenani.. Our laws in my village.. They all forbid what the jews said God forbids too...

So??