₦airaland Forum

Maximus69:
Please are you the one giving me likes on the posts? Because i hate such nonsense when chatting about something of serious concern like this!

So let's assume that we are Jews living during the time of Malachi, but first you need to answer my question:-

Was there a Jew who lived during the first century by the name of Jesus from Nazareth?

No, he is just a made up character by the Romans /Greeks.. The jew don't have the idea of gods mating with humans as part of their belief.. That is in the realm of Greek and Roman mythology... Persius and Co comes to mind.

Maximus69:
All these points should be addressed one after the other, but first you need to acknowledge that if you don't want any quotations from the New Testament then you don't have to bring Jesus into the matter at all, because the NT is all about Jesus of Nazareth!

So to start with, we need to find an answer to a very important question: Was there any man who lived during the first century named Jesus from Nazareth?

Let us assume we are jews living at the time of prophet malachi what kind of Messiah will you be looking forward to?.. So that we can at least judge if the new testament was necessary..

Maximus69:
Please i don't want to get you provoked, would you appreciate it if i come into this?

You have to stay on discussion.. No name calling or any funny attempt at humor..

Come on in.. :
All quote must be from the old testament since it is the new testament that is on trial..

Like I said, the Jewish prophets wrote about the Messiah, that God was sending to redeem them. When the jews speak of salvation it is always from physical danger..
As per the problem of sin, God already provided a solution in 2nd chronicle 7:14.
Concerning the Messiah, this is what is believed.
J-s Was Not Messiah, He Did Not Fulfill Any Prophecies
* The Messiah must be from the Tribe of Judah and a Descendant of King David AND King Solomon, not Jeconiah, through his human biological father. Genesis 49:10, 2 Samuel 7:12-14; 1 Chronicles 17:11-14, 22:9-10, 28:4-6; Jeremiah 23:5, 33:17; Jeremiah 22:30, 36:30, Psalm 89:35-37. Genealogy in the Bible is only passed down from father to son Numbers 1:1-18.

J-s didn't have this genealogy, he didn't have a birth father from the Tribe of Judah, in the line from King David and Solomon, not Jeconiah. He had a virgin birth according to Matthew and Luke. And even if he didn't have virgin birth neither genealogy in Matthew 1 or Luke 3 can produce a King to be the Messiah. In Luke 3 the genealogy doesn't go through Solomon as required and in Matthew 1 the genealogy is rejected because it goes though Jeconiah.
II Samuel 7:12-14, I Chronicles 17:11-14, 22:9-10, 28:4-6, Jeremiah 22:30,36:30.

* When Messiah is reigning as King the Jews will be ingathered from their exile and will return to Israel Deut. 30:3; Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 30:3, 32:37; Ezekiel 11:17, 36:24. This didn't happen, the Jews were dispersed widely after the death of J-s.

* When Messiah comes the Temple in Jerusalem will be rebuilt and sin sacrifices will be fully instituted Isaiah 2:2-3, 56:6-7, 60:7, 66:20; Ezekiel 37:26-27, 45:17-46:16; Malachi 3:4; Zech. 14:20-21. The Temple was destroyed after the death of J-s.
3
* When Messiah comes there will be Worldwide Reign of Peace and complete end to war Micah 4:1-4; Hoseah 2:20; Isaiah 2:1-4, 60:18. There are still wars upon wars.

* When Messiah is reigning as King all of the Jewish people will observe Torah Ezekiel 37:24; Deut. 30:8,10; Jeremiah 31:32; Ezekiel 11:19-20, 36:26-27. Everyone is not obeying Torah the world is filled with rebellion to the Most High.

* When Messiah comes all the people of the world will come to acknowledge and serve the one true Elohim Zechariah 3:9, 8:23,14:9,16; Isaiah 45:23, 66:23; Jeremiah 31:33; Ezekiel 38:23; Psalm 86:9; Zeph. 3:9.

* J-s didn't fulfill any prophecies about Messiah. He didn't have a human biological father in the royal kingly line, the Jews have not ingathered from their exile, the third Temple has not been rebuilt, there is not world wide peace, there is still war, all the Jewish people are not observing Torah and not all people are serving the Most High.

I created this thread for me and Dtruthspeaker to iron things out concerning the new testament and Jesus.. I maintained that the new testament is of Roman /Greek origin and has nothing to do with the jews and their God.i will aim to show how the new testament was developed from Babylonian epics and Greek and Roman mythology.. And why they super glued it to the Jewish Tanakh..

Happy following..

Dtruthspeaker:
And do you stand on all these Knowings you have laid before us all as the Truths you Truly Believe?

Create a thread.. For both of us to iron this matter out let's not derail this one..

Dtruthspeaker:
And do you stand on all these Knowings you have laid before us all as the Truths you Truly Believe?

It is not a question of believe.. They where written for us to know.. I know I should not lay with someone else's wife... So I don't...
The only way to have a relationship with God is to obey his commandments and laws..

I don't know any other way..

Dtruthspeaker:
I can settle all these matters and please do not join me

I am simply A DIY, an advocate of Natural Truths like the Sun is above us today in Abuja or if your engine is hot, you would not like to place your face on it, kind of Truth, that is all.

I require no followers just persons I could call friends because they Understand the Way of the Lord and strive to keep His Commandments, to the best of their ability that is all.

That is what I Truly Contend with you.

So where you formerly said you only believe the Bible from Genesis to Deuteronomy, which I think you have now included Isaiah, is it that you now accept from Genesis to Isaiah?

Or is it skip to Isaiah?

And quite frankly, I do not think you believe much of the contents of the Bible and if you already have problems with the part, how is it possible that I can get you to understand the whole?

The Torah (that is from genesis to Deuteronomy) contains the laws of God that no man has any right to change or alter.. It is the heart and soul of the Bible.. The other books. contains the writing of the sages and prophet of Israel. It details their history and their suffering in the hands of their enemies.. And a promise of a better future of everlasting peace that the Messiah will usher in... When God returns all of them to the land he promised them..

God was punishing them because they failed to keep his laws.. God hold his laws in high esteem... Prophesy ended on the death of the last prophet. That would be malachi..

donnie:
It was a vision of Isaiah, not a vision of the kings. And I'm glad you believe this one is a vision and not a "dream".

Did you see the time frame?

Dtruthspeaker:
Ah! I see your problem but let me digest all I have learnt about you.

Am waiting, also answer the question I set before you..

donnie:
The kings that were talking were also shutting their mouths at the same time okwea?



Isaiah 53:4
[4]Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

Israel was afflicted and sorrowful to carry the griefs and sorrows of the gentile kings abi? Continu.

I'm only answering you so that the foolishness of your beliefes can be evident to all.

If you even brobe these Ipob people fine, you will see that they refer to Nnamdi Kanu as MESSIAH.

See a better translation and judge for yourself

https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/15984

Dtruthspeaker:
I can understand your anger only when I have a basis to measure it.

I have seen you deny the Truth of the Bible whether what is called old testament or new testament.

Then I have seen you take hold of both old and new testament at your pleasure.

Then, with me, you directly declared that the Bible you believe in is from Genesis to Deuteronomy that the other books are inconsequential.

Look at this journey, does this person sound reasonable and stable?

There is no Identifiable standard with which to measure you which is why, though I hate the things you say, your instability makes it even worse.

So are you going to ever stand or fall by a Principle ? Because the only Identifiable principle I have seen is that you Hate the One who we call Jesus Christ and it is now you have disclosed the source of your hatred, which itself is an untrue testimony.

Let us end this matter once and for all..

Show me from the old testament where it was written that God son will be the Messiah and he was coming as a sacrifice for sins and we are expected to give our life to him in other to be saved..

If you can, I swear I will join you..

Dtruthspeaker:
Are you also Catholic or formerly Catholic?

My parents are.. They used to force us to go when I was younger, I went as far as been a mass servant.. Just to please them, but now I know better..

donnie:
Whats has that got to do with sacrificing "his servant Israel"?





You are not well at all... Struggling to make scriptures agree with your fetishes.

See the beginning of Isaiah. What do you make of it... Isaiah 1:1

1The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem, in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, [and] Hezekiah, kings of Judah."

Dtruthspeaker:
I can understand your anger only when I have a basis to measure it.

I have seen you deny the Truth of the Bible whether what is called old testament or new testament.

Then I have seen you take hold of both old and new testament at your pleasure.

Then, with me, you directly declared that the Bible you believe in is from Genesis to Deuteronomy that the other books are inconsequential.

Look at this journey, does this person sound reasonable and stable?

There is no Identifiable standard with which to measure you which is why, though I hate the things you say, your instability makes it even worse.

So are you going to ever stand or fall by a Principle ? Because the only Identifiable principle I have seen is that you Hate the One who we call Jesus Christ and it is now you have disclosed the source of your hatred, which itself is an untrue testimony.

Hate?.. You are very funny, a comic book character like Thanos..

Somebody I know never even existed.. I am opening your eyes to the deception that is in your front, but you are just too deep to accept it.because you have invested your whole life and resources on it..

Continue, when the time comes, you will know..

donnie:
Whats has that got to do with sacrificing "his servant Israel"?





You are not well at all... Struggling to make scriptures agree with your fetishes.

Isaiah 52:15

15:So shall he cast down many nations; kings shall shut their mouths because of him, for, what had not been told them they saw, and [at] what they had not heard they gazed.

Isaiah 53:1
1Who would have believed our report, and to whom was the arm of the Lord revealed?...........

The kings of the earth are the people talking.. Not Isaiah..

donnie:
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So Israel's life was sacrificed for who? The same God you said does not accept human sacrifice sacrificed a whole nation. Continue deceiving yourself because you want to worship ancestors.

Where you go when God dey share sense?.. Start from 51 and read all through to 54..it will become clear..the people talking in 53 are the kings of the earth when they discover that the jews where right all along.. That is what Dtruthspeaker will be saying when he discovers that Jesus is just a Roman idol..

donnie:
Yea right... You recognize orishas using graven images hmm?
I can break down the word "orisha" for you in Hebrew. It has nothing to do with your idolatries.

Learn.. Unlearn and relearn..

Dtruthspeaker:
And you know the Laws of God better than Isreal Whom the Lord, Himself, through Moses, gave Isreal The Laws?

The same One, Who did many wonderful things to Isreal, which even lasted enough for us to see today and we are witnesses to?

The same One Who spoke to Isreal?

Well I do not know the all of Igbo history which you may know but I do Certainly know that God did not use the Igbo people to show the World His Power and Might and Fear Neither Did He Speak to Them Nor Did He give Them His Commandments.

So you can not know more than the Bible and all your testimony which is inconsistent with the Bible is Untrue and can not be believed and therefore Never Acceptable!

Neither are you in any position to say that what is written in the Bible is not True for you do not know what you say.

LOL.. What have you said?..God is not a man or human being.. Speak?? That is a human attribute.. There is only one God.. The same God the jews call yaweh is what we igbos call CHUKWU...

donnie:
Isaiah 53:10
Yet it was YAHUAH's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though YAHUAH makes his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of YAHUAH will prosper in his hand.

You probably have your own ipob bible. And it's not the TORAH

LOL.. Isaiah 53 is about a suffering servant that dies multiple times and has offspring... He is suffering because of what was done to him..

But quess what? God already told you who is servant is in Isaiah 41:8-9 and 45:4-5.

8:But you, Israel My servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham, who loved Me,

9:Whom I grasped from the ends of the earth, and from its nobles I called you, and I said to you, "You are My servant"; I chose you and I did not despise you

@

4:For the sake of My servant Jacob, and Israel My chosen one, and I called to you by your name; I surnamed you, yet you have not known Me.

5:I am the Lord, and there is no other; besides Me there is no God: I will strengthen you although you have not known Me.

There is no controversy.. Israel is the suffering servant. You know how they say you use scripture to interpret scripture.. This is what they mean.

Dtruthspeaker:
Now you are changing your word, again, for your disciutenanced every other book after Deuteronomy.

Come to think of it, are you Nigerian Jew, like Nnamdi Kanu Jew, because I do not think that you are Jewy Jew?

Jewish history is different from igbo history, but the laws of God is the same on planet earth..

Dtruthspeaker:
Now you are changing your word, again, for your disciutenanced every other book after Deuteronomy.

Come to think of it, are you Nigerian Jew, like Nnamdi Kanu Jew, because I do not think that you are Jewy Jew?

Igbo traditional religion is identical to Judaism..

We recognize the existence of orishas, but we reverence the creator of all.. We call CHUKWU.

donnie:
Mtcheew, I'm already well educated. If you have something to say, spew it here.

Was human sacrifice allowed or permitted?

donnie:
Mtcheew, I'm already well educated. If you have something to say, spew it here.

Read that you will learn something new.. Trust me.

Dtruthspeaker:
You say only one way for discovering the Truth which is why you are blind for you see little

I see many ways and the Power of The Truth is that in All Those Ways, if it is the Truth, it remains the same and unchanged, like the sun and moon looks the same whether in Abuja or Saudi Arabia.

So it is with the Word of God.

I agree with you.. We are using the Bible as standard.. Let's focus on it.. There are other methods of discovering the truth.. I don't doubt it..
But consider this verse from Amos : 7 "For the Lord God does nothing unless He has revealed His secret to His servants, the prophets"

Like, I said I have gone through the old testament and the prophet, I am yet to come accros the one that wrote about God having a son or sending a son as sacrifice for sins. There is just none. So where did the Jesus story come from?.

You understand my anger when my research exposed the fact that he was created at the council of nicea by the Constantine delegates..
It means I have made a fool of my self believing falsehood..

You show me a place in the old testament where God said he had a son and was sending him for us to kill him as sacrifice, I will should it out loud here that Jesus is real.. Show me..

donnie:
The man actually existed. What white people did was change his image, personality and message to look white in the 1500s. Prior to this time, all images and representation of MESSIAH showed a black image. Those miracels actually happened.

Study the life of Simon Toko and you will believe MESSIAH existed. There are still many living witnesses to the powerful life and ministry of this man. He fulfilled the scripture which says "...greater works that these shall ye do..." He was cut in pieces and joined back together several times. His heart was taken out by doctors who wanted to find out what type of life he was made of.... he came back alive on the operation table and requested for his heart to be put back. These are not folk tales, his news was all over Europe. Over a thousand people saw short muscular heavenly beings appear in broad daylight and chased away the Belgian forces whose amunition were powerless against these beings.


You "consciousness" people should go and sleep. The ancient of days was described as a back man having wooly hair.

Daniel 7:9
I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.


[img]https://1.bp..com/-EcCFslH3xZQ/VO9lD_mCZ4I/AAAAAAAAAhw/bX3lTvDzLx4/s1600/9.jpg[/img]

Daniel 7 was a dream... A dream.

donnie:
You are lying .... @Bolded, prove it.
First, MESSIAH was not Levite to offer sacrifices.

I thought you guys said he was the sacrifice...

donnie:
You are lying .... @Bolded, prove it.
First, MESSIAH was not Levite to offer sacrifices.

Educate yourself..

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/4440323/jewish/Korbanot-The-Biblical-Temple-Sacrifices.htm

Dtruthspeaker:
Now you use Isaiah but you said you do believe in Isaiah calling them 'stories' "histories of the Jewish people".

That for you, the Bible ends in Deuteronomy!

So now henceforth I would use the scriptures both in Isaiah and other Prophets against you where applicable But I already know that you shall once again say that you do not believe in it,

so as Jacob says 'you are unstable as water", you are inconsistent and speak from all sides of your mouth so as to escape correction.

But it is your right to behave unstably.

So, As I said, The Highest, created me and I am Lower than some other creations.

Thus if the Highest, Appoints any other Creation Greater I , Even An Angel, to Rule over me, I will Obey and Comply.

You do as you will and desire, it is your own soul.

What I said is the Torah is the heart and soul of the Bible because it contains the laws of God the creator. Every other is just a footnote.. What ever you believe must be in line with God's laws, if not it is not of God.. Deuteronomy 6:4 says "the lord your God is one lord".. Which Isaiah also echoed in his prophesies...
What is it you don't understand?

Dtruthspeaker:
Now you use Isaiah but you said you do believe in Isaiah calling them 'stories' "histories of the Jewish people".

That for you, the Bible ends in Deuteronomy!

So now henceforth I would use the scriptures both in Isaiah and other Prophets against you where applicable But I already know that you shall once again say that you do not believe in it,

so as Jacob says 'you are unstable as water", you are inconsistent and speak from all sides of your mouth so as to escape correction.

But it is your right to behave unstably.

So, As I said, The Highest, created me and I am Lower than some other creations.

Thus if the Highest, Appoints any other Creation Greater I , Even An Angel, to Rule over me, I will Obey and Comply.

You do as you will and desire, it is your own soul.

So when did he say he was going to do that?.. So the Muslims can also be right, your God might also have appointed Muhammad as his prophet..

Why are you not listening to him.. Or following his teaching.

The only way to distinguish truth from falsehood is to go to the beginning to find out if what came later comply with what was given before.. And I did that and found that Jesus broke all the sacrificial laws given in leviticus and the laws given by God.. So it was easy to know he is just fake.. Same with Muhammad too..
A spirit cannot impregnate a human being. To believe that means you have to suspend the use of your brain..

Except you are a moroon.

A quote by Justin matyer.

"God, was produced without sexual union, and that He, Jesus Christ, our Teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter. For you know how many sons your esteemed writers ascribed to Jupiter: Mercury, the interpreting word and teacher of all; Aesculapius, who, though he was a great physician, was struck by a thunderbolt, and so ascended to heaven; and Bacchus too, after he had been torn limb from limb; and Hercules, when he had committed himself to the flames to escape his toils; and the sons of Leda, and Dioscuri; and Perseus, son of Danae; and Bellerophon, who, though sprung from mortals, rose to heaven on the horse Pegasus. For what shall I say of Ariadne, and those who, like her, have been declared to be set among the stars? And what of the emperors who die among yourselves, whom you deem worthy of deification, and in whose behalf you produce some one who swears he has seen the burning Caesar rise to heaven from the funeral pyre? And what kind of deeds are recorded of each of these reputed sons of Jupiter, it is needless to tell to those who already know. This only shall be said, that they are written for the advantage and encouragement of youthful scholars; for all reckon it an honourable thing to imitate the gods. But far be such a thought concerning the gods from every well-conditioned soul, as to believe that Jupiter himself, the governor and creator of all things, was both a parricide and the son of a parricide, and that being overcome by the love of base and shameful pleasures, he came in to Ganymede and those many women whom he had violated and that his sons did like actions. But, as we said above, wicked devils perpetrated these things. And we have learned that those only are deified who have lived near to God in holiness and virtue; and we believe that those who live wickedly and do not repent are punished in everlasting fire."

Dtruthspeaker:
You worship what you choose to worship or whatever you claim to Worship, that is your Creator Given Right

I Worship The Highest and His Appointed, Who is A God Over us and I Respect Every Higher Being and Authorities Greater than I.

I know my God can't lie....