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When will APC stop smoking Oshodi weed? ![]() |
Cool on him. ![]() |
Alright wifey. See you in za other room tonight. ![]() |
Good. Those Northerners can steal for Africa sha. ![]() |
Where them great zombies? Them don run away from this thread o... ![]() |
DID THE TEN COMMANDMENTS PRECEDE MOSES? A combination of ignorance and an attempt to minimize the Ten Commandments as “dispensational” (obligatory for a limited period of time) has caused most to believe the Ten Commandments did not exist prior to Moses receiving them on Mount Sinai. Is this true? Is this what the Bible teaches? Lets examine the period from Creation to Moses. Keeping in mind that scripture cannot be broken, what scriptures can be examined for proof? The Ten Commandments were already in force long before they were officially given to Israel at Mount Sinai and this will be demonstrated. In fact, these commandments have existed since the creation of man. The Ten Commandments were never part of the law of Moses or the Levitical sacrificial system. The civil laws and sacrifices were based on God’s commands, which constitute the core of His laws. Thus, the Ten Commandments precede and transcend any and every lesser law or practice based upon them—statutes, judgments, precepts, and ordinances. The Ten Commandments are God’s spiritual laws (Rom. 7:12, 14). They are just as active as the physical laws of gravity and inertia. Just as breaking physical laws results in physical consequences, breaking spiritual laws results in spiritual consequences. Sin Defined Most human beings either do not know of or do not like to be reminded of I John 3:4, which defines sin: “Whosoever commits sin transgresses also THE LAW: for sin is the transgression of THE LAW.” As the subject develops, you will come to see (in stages) the central connection between sin and the law. Romans 6:23 states that “the wages of SIN is death.” Romans 5 explains, “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of Him that was to come)” (vs. 12-14). In other words, Adam sinned. Sin is not imputed—does not apply—where there is no law (carefully read Romans 4:15). Death reigned from Adam to Moses. (Remember, death is the penalty for sin, which is defined as the transgression of the law.) The only way that Adam and his descendants could sin—break God’s spiritual law—is if God’s Law already existed! Without this law in place, no one could be guilty of sin. Instead of rejecting sin, modern religionists reject the law. They view the law as a burden—they want to be free from keeping it. But notice the key lessons found in Romans 7:7: “What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. No, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, You shall not covet.” It is not the law that is at fault—and Paul is clearly citing one of the Ten Commandments—but sin. God reveals to us what sin is. He does this by His perfect law. On his own, man cannot discover God’s perfect law. God has to reveal and teach it to us. Examples We've already seen that Adam and his wife were the first sinners—lawbreakers. And that sin is not counted when there's no law. Lets see other examples. Cain In Genesis 4, Adam’s first son, Cain, became angry against his brother Abel, because God accepted Abel’s sacrifice, but not Cain’s. Notice how God admonished Cain in verses 6-7: “And the LORD said unto Cain, Why are you wroth [angry]? and why is your countenance fallen? If you do well, shall you not be accepted? and if you do not well, sin [impossible without the Law] lies at the door. And unto you shall be his desire, and you shall rule over him.” Cain murdered and broke the SIXTH COMMANDMENT. When someone is in the wrong frame of mind, sin does lie at the door, waiting to happen, because sinful thoughts lead to sinful actions. God commands us to rule over sin—to control those pulls and impulses to commit sin. Cain murdered Abel and lied to God about it. This is a direct violation of the NINTH COMMANDMENT, which forbids “bearing false witness against your neighbor.” Cain had sinned and he knew it. This happened a few decades after Adam had first sinned. Adam and Eve’s expanding family knew that sin was the breaking of God’s Law, or God would not have held them accountable. Jacob Jacob warned his people, “Put away the strange gods that are among you, and be clean, and change your garments: and let us arise, and go up to Bethel; and I will make there an altar unto God, who answered me in the day of my distress, and was with me in the way which I went” (Gen. 35:2-3). Jacob knew that God forbade idolatry—breaking the SECOND COMMANDMENT. By telling his household to put away their idols, this fulfilled the principle in Proverbs 16:6, “By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.” Abraham When Abram told King Abimelech that Sarah, his half sister and wife, was merely his sister, he lied—another breaking of the NINTH COMMANDMENT. Believing this, Abimelech sent for Sarah. Now notice Genesis 20:3-4, 6: “But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, you are but a dead man, for the woman which you have taken; for she is a man’s wife. But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, LORD, will you slay also a righteous nation?…And God said unto him in a dream, Yes, I know that you did this in the integrity of your heart; for I also withheld you from sinning against Me: therefore suffered I you not to touch her.” In this situation, Abimelech would have committed adultery, which is a sin. He would have broken the SEVENTH COMMANDMENT. Joseph When Joseph was tempted by the advances of Potiphar’s wife, he “…refused, and said unto his master’s wife, Behold, my master knows not what is with me in the house, and he has committed all that he has to my hand; There is none greater in this house than I; neither has he kept back any thing from me but you, because you are his wife: how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?” (Gen. 39:8-9). Joseph was well aware that adultery was sin. This occurred about 250 years before the law was officially presented to Israel at Mount Sinai! In conclusion, we've seen that the Law was in effect right from the beginning, for if it weren't, Adam and the rest wouldn't have been guilty of sin or know what is sin! PS: The easiest way to know that the Law existed right at the very beginning of creation is the Sabbath law (Genesis 2:3, Hebrews 4:4). |
Mzpurity:Na sex you see? Me na fish o ![]() |
ManMen |
[s] koralink:[/s] Dumb! A telephone discussion that exist only in your head? ![]() |
LLSAINT:Oh, don't mention. By His grace, I'd keep on saying it as it is, not minding whether it offends some people or not. We must obey God rather than men (Acts 5:29). |
PassingShot:Zombie, go find your ilks. |
ionsman:Mumu |
Keep quiet! Bloody stinking liars! |
I wonder how anyone would believe such a news when Lie Mohammed is still the Minister for misinformation. SMH |
The Circumcision To further illustrate and establish that Christians must keep the law, I want to use an unusual Biblical teaching—circumcision, to prove that the so-called grace preachers who claimed to be walking in the newness of the spirit are nothing but liars! Yes, circumcision. God first gave it to Abraham in Genesis 17, and he and his household were circumcised on the flesh. Verse 11 says that this circumcision was to serve as a SIGN of the covenant that God had with Abraham (Note: this point is also reiterated by Paul in Romans 4:11). Now talking of Romans 4, verse 10 asked how faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness, whether it was before or after he had been circumcised? The Bible also answered that it was not after, but before he was circumcised. And what is the essence of circumcision? Again, the Bible answered: "Circumcision indeed is of value if you obey the law; but if you break the law, your circumcision becomes uncircumcision" (Romans 2:25). Please, grasp this understanding. But someone may scream 'No! Circumcision is of the Old Testament and of the Jew'. Not so fast, lets see what the Bible has to say in the New Testament about such an objection: "He is a Jew who is one inwardly, and real circumcision is a matter of the heart, spiritual and not literal...", verse 29. Here, we see that both Jew and circumcision are no longer on the flesh but spiritual, i.e, a Christian is also a Jew and circumcised. Of course, this is so that the promises made to Abraham may also be binding on us who believed, with circumcision serving as a SIGN of the covenant. The Point The lawless ones (interestingly enough, Satan is also known by this title) who claims the Ten Commandments have been done away and that they are of grace and the Holy Spirit (Indeed, a Christian is saved by grace and afterwards, justify in God's sight as a doer of the law, Romans 2:13), but in reality, these people are liars! How? Simple. If they have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, they would have kept the LAW since circumcision is of no value when you're lawless! Further proof that uncircumcised/carnal people don't keep the law? Here: "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be (Romans 8:7). Yes, those who are in the flesh cannot please God because they hate His commandments, and by extension, hate God equally! It is carnally people that actually hate the commandments! Remember, faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness before he was circumcised, just as while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son (Romans 5:10). Let me digress a bit from here. This will make room for better understanding. There are at least three basic steps to take before one can be so truly called a Christian: 1. Repentance 2. Baptism 3. Receiving of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38). Lets talk of repentance. What is it? Repentance simply means a change of heart—from doing something wrong. Lets say for instance, you commit fornication/adultery, steal, kill etc, and you later became sorry for them because you have broken God's holy, righteous and good law, you then proceeded to repentance—a change of heart from further breaking of these commandments (Note: one of the major theme in the Bible is REPENTANCE). Also, looking at the third step above, the Bible talks of "grieving the Holy Spirit" (Ephesians 4:30). How does one grieve the Holy Spirit? Simple. By going back into the very things he was delivered from—unrighteous works of darkness! Also remember that the law is also called "righteous" (Romans 7:12). So therefore, unrighteous works are works which opposes the law. In fact, listen to this: "How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?" (Hebrews 10:29). Have you seen the folly of claiming to have the Holy Spirit but yet, do not keep the law or claim the law is no more, when in fact, one core functions of the Holy Spirit is to help a Christian to keep these holy, righteous and good commandments ![]() Now lets tidy up everything together. Abraham was not counted righteous by faith alone but he also kept the commandments (Genesis 26:5, also see James 2:14-26). Yes, he wouldn't have inherit the promises if he didn't keep his own part of the agreement! The same is also true of a Christian today. He/she can't attain salvation if he keeps on living in sin—lawlessness, since his circumcision/receiving of the Holy Spirit will be of no value if he keeps on doing the same things he was delivered from, thereby grieving the Holy Spirit instead of pleasing God! So then, the LAW is FOREVER! (Exodus 31:17). PS: To you children of disobedience (Ephesians 2:2), I'd end my piece with this: "He who says "I know him" but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him" (1 John 2:4). Yes, liars!!! |
Goshen360:Yeah, now you know. |
ayoku777:There he goes again, ignoring the Bible definition of LOVE. Just listen to yourself: the Commandment of Love? What is love ![]() If the love of God is indeed shed abroad in your heart by the Holy Spirit, you would have kept the commandments which teaches no other thing but LOVE!- for God and fellow man. But of course no, you can't keep this LAW because the carnal mind is hostile to God and His commandments! (Romans 8:7). Yes, this is your state, and this is why you can't submit to God's law and His rule over your life! |
ayoku777:You keep on recycling the same thing over and over again, interpreting them as it suits you. Have you bothered to ask why I've not gone indept into Paul's writings yet? I'm simply letting you to wallow in your ignorance- twisting these things to your hurt, like apostle Peter said. Oh! You've even admitted now that Christians are commandment keepers? Wow... that's a nice step. But which commandment did you say Christians keeps- love ![]() Look up, I've already discussed love with our friend. Jesus gave no new law, He was simply magnifying the Ten Commandment which is divided into two, the first four teaches man how to love God and the six, how to love fellow man. So according to Scriptures, love is the keeping of the Commandments! |
Goshen360:Oh yes. Don't you know true Christians keeps it together with the rest of the law? |
The more you try to uphold your delusion, the more blunders you make. I tell you, you have a long way to go. I see you running again in desperation, making another fallacious claim that Jesus gave a new law which is LOVE. Really ![]() Okay. Lets see what the Bible has to say about love. Paul has this to say: "Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law" (Romans 13:10) And John: "For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome" (1 John 5:3). Hello! Did you hear that- that we keep His commandments? Again, these two definitions are overarching. So you see, love is also keeping of the LAW! cc: Goshen360 PS: You keep on making the fallacious claims that the LAW was to be until Christ supposedly "nailed it to the cross". But looking at the Sabbath law for instance, we see that the Sabbath is a SIGN between God and His people FOREVER (See Exodus 31:17). What! Did God forgot that He will do away with this law? No, let God be true and every man a liar (Romans 3:4). |
ayoku777:Oh, you now know that this is not how to knock down an argument? But what exactly have you lot been doing? Yes! I intentionally ignored your cheery-picking since you lot are trying to be smart by half. And note, I said I'd be willing to harmonize these Scriptures once he's ready to harmonize them. You can't cheery-picked what seems to support your arguments at the expense of other truths! The same Paul you've been quoting expressly says: "Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law". Here, Paul is saying that the law is intact, but you, no; the law is abolished. You claimed (yes, you. Paul never said the LAW has been abolished) the law has been nullified, but Paul is saying contrarily. The question you should be asking yourself is: How can Paul uphold [interestingly enough, the dictionary definition of the word uphold is: confirm or support (something which has been questioned)] what is supposedly nullified (according to you)? Until you agree that your nullification of the LAW is not in harmony with other Scriptural truths, I'd not reconcile your stumbling blocks. PS: Did you also see how the Living Jesus Christ through His revelation to John, confirms that true Christians are commandment keepers, and because of this, Satan wages war against them ![]() |
I have been telling you to know who you're dealing with here. Do not think you can cheery-picked Scriptures and terribly twist them to suit your preconceived ideas, and hope that I'd be a part of it. From my own background, all Scriptures must be in congruence. Looking at Romans 3 down, one may be tempted to think that Paul is condemning and ruling out the LAW entirely. But just at the end of this chapter, he drops the bombshell: "Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law". Here, two words stood out: NULLIFY AND UPHOLD. Paul said he is not nullifying the law but rather upholding it. Is it really that difficult to understand? Are you sincerely ignorance of these things or simply being mischievous? Up there, you have rendered the teachings of Jesus null and void, ridiculously claiming He taught those things while He was under the Old dispensation (I wish I could laugh off this naivety. But no, it's really heartbreaking). To you, all what He taught then was only active for as long as He was on earth. Having died, He nullified those things, of course, this understanding is only according to what is in your head. This is because the same Jesus you claimed did away with His holy, righteous and good LAW, in His revelation to apostle John further uphold as did Paul and other faithfuls that indeed, true Christians are commandment keepers. Here: "Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus" (Rev. 12:17). Hmm. When you are ready to tie up Paul's hard sayings together harmoniously, call my attention. Till then, I can only sit back and watch you twist these things to your own destruction. cc: Goshen360. |
Goshen360:Very poor attempt as usual. That the Ten Commandment was given in the Old Testament does not in anyway nullify its validity in the New Testament. Have you not seen how Jesus even went further in strenthening the Ten Commandment in the New Testament? What about the apostles? I keep on asking you why a Law described as "holy, righteous and good" should be abolished. Of course, you're turning a blind eye to it! When I say you do not know what was abolished in the Old Testament, it is indeed a true saying. When you say the Ten Commandment was part of the Old Covenant and the old is done away, do you also mean the whole of Old Testament writings are abolished too ![]() I do not agree with you not just because I want to disagree, but because the Scriptures itself disagrees as well! |
Goshen360:Oh yeah, you'll have a terrible time trying to mess the Scriptures with someone like me. I've dealt with these issues for long. And the problem with people like you is the inability to differentiate the Ten Commandment from the laws of Moses. PS: It is indeed very true when apostle Peter said that Paul wrote some things hard to understand, which the unlearned twist to their destruction (2 Peter 3:16). Indeed, the writings of Paul is always the biggest stumbling block to people like you, so-called "Grace Preachers". |
Goshen360:Whatever spirit told you that God's "holy, righteous and good" LAW is done away is certainly not of God. The Holy Spirit teaches the truth not errors. Yes! The law brings wrath, but these wraths are poured out on children of disobedience! It is commonsense that if you commit a crime and you're caught, you must face the wrath of the law! If the world so have rules and standards, how much more God ![]() Indeed, sin is not counted where there is no law! And it goes on to established the validity of the law right from the beginning, for if the law wasn't active and binding for all times, Adam & Eve wouldn't have been guilty of sin- breaking the law! Now, before righteousness from faith was imputed to Abraham, was it before or after he had been circumcised? (Romans 4:9-10). Do you not know that faith without work is dead (), and that this truth is not just binding spiritually but physically as well? Understand! Before one can become a Christian, he first of all REPENT (Acts 2:38). What is it that he repents from? Also, before one can repent, FAITH must accompanied it. So what picture do we have here? A classic example of faith working alongside work! Do not try to quote Scriptures out of context to me, I am no baby in this matters. Read from verse 1 of Romans 14 down, to understand verse 23. PS: Where there is no LAW, there is no sin. But now, the law is binding and so is sin. Or is sin no more ![]() |
Goshen360:I know when and how to use a CONCORDANCE. And so you know, the concordance does not carry equal authority like the revealed word- the Bible. The Bible definition of SIN is found in 1 John 3:4, and this definition is overarching. So, please kindly note that no other definition is acceptable by me. |
Goshen360: These are the kind of stunts you pull when you're discussing with kids. Your lame wriggling of words bears a semblance of the warning apostle Paul gave in Ephesians 5:6; "Let no one deceive you with empty words...". Bro, I am not here to learn verbs or nouns, for if I had wanted to learn them, I have my English textbooks with me. So, if we must converse, let us learn of the Scriptures in its simplest and purest form, not playing around with words. PS: I can't remember cracking jokes here. So do well to comport yourself by refraining from shining your teeth. Else, I may simply conclude that you're a jester. |
sarrki:[/s]
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FFK never disappoint. Great piece to tumble that shameless old lying man! |
Goshen360:Sorry. On the contrary, what you claimed to understand is nothing but an erroneous understanding. Lets look at it. Some Background on the Ten Commandments In ancient Israel, the Ten Commandments were the basis for: (1) Laws—rules of conduct established by authority; (2) Statutes—laws enacted by a law-making body or ruler; (3) Judgments—judicial decisions of court cases; (4) Ordinances—public decrees or regulations; by-laws of a municipality; religious ceremonies; (5) Precepts—authorized directions or orders; and (6) Covenants—binding agreements; which are formal sealed compacts, usually between two parties. These definitions should better help you understand these terms as found in the Scriptures. The Ten Commandments primarily governed individual conduct. The statutes governed national and religious affairs, such as observing the Holy Days. The judgments were based on the Ten Commandments and the statutes. Also, the Ten Commandments are actually categorized into two sections. The first four commandments define man’s relationship to God. The last six define his relationship with his fellow human beings. This was also reinforced by Christ. Notice: “Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked Him a question, tempting Him, and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these TWO commandments hang all the law and the prophets” (Matt. 22:35-40). Understand! The Ten Commandments were not called the law of Moses, but rather the law of God. The law of Moses consisted of: (1) the civil laws—the statutes and judgments that Moses relayed to the people from God, recorded in Exodus 21-23 and the remaining books of the Law—and (2) the ritualistic laws (Greek: ergon) added later, summarized in Hebrews 9:10. These ordinances regulated the Levitical sacrifices (Lev. 1-7) and related duties. Ergon means “works,” as in the “works of the law” (Gal. 2:16). This referred to the labor involving Levitical rituals abolished by Christ’s sacrifice. These were the set of laws abolished by Christ's sacrifice! Finally, know that if you say that the Law (10th) has been done away, it therefore means that sin is death too, i.e, there's no more sin, since sin is the breaking of the law (1 John 3:4). And like Paul said, "sin is not imputed when there is no law" (Romans 5:13). So, when you say Christians are freed from the law, you're saying in essence that Christians are without sins—commit sins no more—sinless. Let me leave you with this truth from apostle John: "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us" (1 John 1:8 ). PS: How can a LAW described in such a beautiful way as: "So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good" (Romans 7:12), be abolished? If the law which is also called "righteousness" is done away, what then shall you keep as a Christian—unrighteousness? Remember what Jesus said in Matthew 6:33: "But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness...?". Yes, it is true that true Christians are the "righteousness of God through Jesus" (Romans 3:22; 2 Cor. 5:21). And how is this righteousness through Jesus gotten? Jesus answered: "If you would enter life, keep the commandments" (Matthew 19:17), and also "If you continue in my word, you are truly my disciples" (John 8:31). Plain! A true Christian is a commandment keeper because the commandment so given by God as "holy, righteous and good", is the direct reflection of God's qualities which He wants us to practice and keep! |
Goshen360:What a joke! Is this the understanding you gained from studying your own Bible or you were taught by your pastor ![]() I don't know where you get your own definition of SIN from, because the Bible defined sin as the "transgression/breaking of the law" (1 John 3:4). And so in the light of the Scriptures, your own definition is nothing but human invention, and remain as such. |
Goshen360:Why don't we study it together? Where are your proofs that the Ten Commandment is no longer binding ![]() |
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