₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
So we know him on planet earth as Jesus but before coming to the earth he is Archangel Michael!

So in essence, angel Michael is your savior or that of JWs at least.

As for me and family, Jesus is my Savior and life giver.

MaxInDHouse:
None of the angels came as the son of man except archangel Michael so if any other angel speak to you don't believe them rely solely on what the one and only angel that God introduced as His Son!

Pure fabrication or at best, a figment of the imagination.

Angel Michael is a ministering spirit, not a life giving Spirit nor the Savior of the world.

MaxInDHouse:
OK!
Well Archangel Michael is of course a Mighty God {One of the mighty spirit sons of God) but not the Almighty God!

Angels, Michael inclusive, are ministering spirits whose mission is to serve heirs of salvation (Hebrews 1:14). They, unlike Christians, are not offered membership of the God family, i.e, they are neither begotten nor born sons of the family of God, for example, Jesus. To further show the amount of power and authority that the heirs of the kingdom will have over angels, they will be judged by Christians (1 Corinthians 6:3). And no wonder man is a god (Psalm 82:6-7, John 10:34-35).

While angels are also collectively called "sons of God", of course there must be limit or right of usage. I mean,

For to which of the angels did He ever say: “You are My Son, Today I have begotten You”? And again: “I will be to Him a Father, And He shall be to Me a Son”? (Hebrews 1:5)

Come to think of it, Maximus. Did Paul forgot that Jesus is angel Michael when he asked, "For to which of the angels"? Could it be that Paul did not know that Jesus is an angel?

Now speaking of angel Michael, Gabriel his counterpart said:

But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia (Daniel 10:13)

What about angel Gabriel? Did he also forgot that Michael is the only arch or chief angel? Why did he say Michael is "one of the chief princes" when supposedly there's only one arch/chief angel or prince?

MaxInDHouse:
So Archangel Michael is one of God's spirit sons who is also a mighty spirit being!

Agree. Archangel Michael is one of the archangels, created by Jesus (Colossians 1:16).

MaxInDHouse:
<sup>You need to know how lies turns out before you can accuse someone "you are lying" JWs say Jesus is Archangel Michael and they've got scriptures to back it up, you are saying Jesus is Almighty Mighty God and you have scriptures to back it up so nobody can say this is lie or truth.

There must be a better way to resolve this than mere arguments or pointing accusing fingers!</sup>

Maximus, please take note of that correction. By the way, truth is truth and lie is lie. It's not an argument.

Angel Michael is the savior of JWs. Yes, he is their redeemer.

But of course, angel Michael is but "one of the chief princes" (Daniel 10:13). In other words, there are other chief or arch angels/princes, of which Gabriel himself is one.

Jesus is God, a Mighty God (Isaiah 9:6). He was the One that CREATED angel Michael, Gabriel and all the angelic host (Colossians 1:16). He is also the Savior of the world (John 1:29).

peacefulworld01:
What teaching of Jehovah witnesses do you think is misleading,confusing and it's a lie.

That Jesus is angel Michael. This is perhaps the chief of all lies among JWs.

DappaD:
Of course we’re on social media so I don’t know you from anywhere but why do I feel in my guts that you are Ihedino.bi3.

It's good to see you speculating and making wild assumptions. Of course, here's something to help you:
https://www.nairaland.com/6163840/enoch-walked-god-he-died/2#94819657

What a friend for.

DappaD:
“Church” simply means congregation and there have always been names people knew them with in the first century like, The Way, Christians, sect of the Nazarenes.

Look up for the Greek word translated "church". That will help you more.

DappaD:
LOL? Over the years, we’ve seen people especially clergymen lift chunks of knowledge off from our magazines to teach their church members. Kumuyi did it, Adeboye did it. Pastors used our books like “My Book of Bible Stories” in their children sunday school. So why would I be surprised if someone is using our lingua franca?

Good. So it's a settled case then. Your case is against those mentioned people and whatever structure they have to their names. Have I not shown you already when Christ built His church?

DappaD, could it be that the truth you saw earlier from scripture, "church of the living God", was in your mind, referring to those names and pastors you mentioned? Uh oh. That is what happens when deluded.

DappaD:
Oh really? Prove me wrong that you didn’t lift that knowledge from JWs and mention this “church of the living God” except maybe SDA of course.

Incredible. So I was right; you've been sold a dummy, DappaD. How gullible can one be?

Rather than me proving anything to you, prove that the church of God is not the pillar and ground of the truth (1 Thessalonians 5:21). For before there was anything like International Bible Students Association or JWs, there was a church (Matthew 16:18). Apparently, it appears you're averse to scriptural truths.

Are you disappointed that JWs is not the pillar and ground of the truth? By the way, I have no business with SDA.

Hello DappaD, good to see you friend.

DappaD:
“Man don't have a soul but rather, we are souls.”
From the first part of your write-up, you spoke like a Jehovah’s Witness—yet you’re not and still lacking in many areas. How strange.

What are you finding strange exactly? But of course, it's no surprise. It's amusing rather. Perhaps you were lied to, that the truth is only found on the four corners of JW's kingdom halls. If that is your case, sorry you've been sold a dummy.

Of course, the church of the living God is the pillar and ground of the truth (1 Timothy 3:15). And yes, I know that I do lack in many areas according to JWs standard. But, do I care at all? Like I said, I know where the truth is domiciled.

DappaD, enjoy your convention.

Dtruthspeaker:
^{Now you have forgotten that it is not the human carcass that is going to the lake of Fire but the soul.
And you can not Truly know how long it would take for a soul to burn in that Fire!}

Soul? No, I've not forgotten anything that needs remembrance. Perhaps at this point, you may want to go back to Genesis when man was created and how he became a living soul (Genesis 2:7). In other words, man don't have a soul but rather, we are souls. That is why it is written, "The soul who sins shall die" (Ezekiel 18:20, KJV). Many other translation renders it this way, "The person who sins will die". Both is correct, that man is a soul; the very person of one's self.

So, you don't have a soul but you are soul. However, man has what is called "the spirit" in/of man (Job 32:8, 1 Corinthians 2:11). And the scriptures shows that whether soul or body; both can be destroyed, i.e, killed (Matthew 10:28).

I'm very much aware of the false teaching that souls don't die, that it lives on even after death. In other words, soul is immortal. But of course when the light of the scriptures is shone on this teaching, it exposes it for what it is; falsehood.

Dtruthspeaker:
Whether the soul is harder than iron and diamond which require extended heat to burn or paperlike, ye know not.

But we know what soul is.

Besides, even if soul were to be as hard as zuma rock (or anything you can think of), will that make He who created the same soul to some sort of struggle or required an eternity, 1000 years, 100 years, 50 years etc, to destroy what He created from the dust of the earth?

Dtruthspeaker:
Also you do not know whether the Fire is regulated on high burner or low burner and such other variables which determine the length and time of burning.
All these determinants are not in thy hand to fore-determine.

My friend, all these are human craftiness. It has been established already, by reason of the brains that God gave us for use, that the only determinant that determines how long an item burns lies solely on the combustible power of the item. In this case, we are talking of the human carcass.

Have you seen where someone is set ablaze before? Even if you've not, using common knowledge, how long do you think the human body can survive even on a stove fire, not to talk of a fire describes as "lake of fire"?

Dtruthspeaker:
As I pointed out up, A Cook and iron crafter has power to determine how long a thing he puts in the fire, would last in the fire.

And a cook and iron crafter only leaves those things on fire for as long as necessary. In a cook's case, till the food is done. And the iron crafter, till his precious metal is ready. In the end, those things are not left indefinitely on fire and not without a defined end. What about the wicked? The end result is ashes. And the time needed? Common sense tells me that any serious fire can burn the human body to ashes within few hours or even an hour.

Besides, your views are contradictory (it is expected). How do you subscribed to eternal torture and still believes that the wicked will turn to ashes? If they are tortured forever, when will they become ashes?

You have to fix this contradiction, and you can only do so with God's word. For God is not the author of confusion.

---

Dtruth, like I told you earlier, the bible must always interpret itself, not our skillful use of words. Perhaps you're not aware that the wicked, actually people on this earth in time past, had already undergone the "fire of eternal punishment", and that those people are neither in that fire roasted nor is the fire burning today. Do you know? Of course, I wouldn't bother proving it for obvious reasons.

It was for your own good that I advised as a friend, to do a fresh studies. After all it is instructed, "study to show yourself approved" (2 Timothy 2:15). But I guess there's no need since you think you know. But here is wisdom:

Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall (1 Corinthians 10:12)

Have a good day. See you some other time.

The question to daddy Freeze is: Where was Judas after the betrayal?

A. Still with Jesus, continuing as one of the 12,

B. ??

Daddy Freeze just like being stupid for no reason. I'm not holding brief for anybody, neither for Oyedepo nor his church.

Dtruthspeaker:
You will be presumptive here on the duration in the Fire for words like "Ever Lasting Contempt" (Daniel 12:2) "Ever lasting Punishment" (Mathew 25:46) give the reasonable conclusion that it would be a very long and lengthy stay in the Fire!

Not at all my friend. I don't speak from the angle of presumption but facts. Like we discussed earlier, the combustible only burns for as long as there's fuel, isn't it? Just how long do you think the human carcass can survive in a lake of great fire before it turns to ashes?

Now, even if we were to go with your "reasonable conclusion", how do you reconciled eternal torture with ashes? If the wicked are tortured forever, when will they turn to ashes?

And yes, it is everlasting punishment not everlasting punishing. I'm sure you know the difference. And what is the punishment? Death; dying for all eternity.

Dtruthspeaker:
The Central theme here is the Wicked and the-evil shall be put in Fire.

And neither do I contest the inability of the Lake of Fire to turn those souls to ashes.

Good. And that is what death is; ultimate end of the wicked. They shall be burned up completely, to ashes. In other words, the doctrine of eternal torture or roasting in hell fire is what it is: unscriptural; paganism.

Thank you my friend. See you next time.

Dtruthspeaker:
Hi Splin.z, hope all is going well?

Yes, all is well. Thank you.

Dtruthspeaker:
So I think that Malachi is a Conquest and Overrunning of the wicked.

No friend, you and I don't have a say when God has already settled on a matter. God is so clear concerning the end of the wicked that one does not need to bring in what he "thinks". The wicked will be burn to ashes, says the LORD of hosts. As explained already, for something to turn to ashes, it means that thing must be burned up completely. This is common knowledge. Except you want us to believe that God does not know what ashes means.

I intentionally refused to prove (1 Thessalonians 5:21) further concerning the said subject, so that you could do your own private studies. You quoted Revelation 20:15 for instance, but has it occurred to you that it agrees with what God is saying in Malachi? For when the wicked are thrown into the lake of fire, what becomes of them? Again, God answers:

For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet On the day that I do this

Remember, all scriptures on a particular subject must agree, i.e, the bible must interpret the bible and not what we think or heard from others. That was why I said preconceived ideas must be put aside in order to take God's word at face value.

I'm still urging you to conduct a fresh research on the subject matter. But if you wouldn't, that's fine.

Hi Dtruth, good to see you here.

Dtruthspeaker:
^{Termination and expiration from Earth ONLY and Transfer to spirit Holding Cell either "Sleeper Cell" (death) or Suffering Cell (hell) pending Final Judgement of Works, for Onward Transmission towards either Lake of Fire or New Heaven and Earth!}

Take a look at this truth that perfectly captures what death is in its entirety:

You shall trample the wicked, For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet On the day that I do this,” Says the LORD of hosts. (Malachi 4:3)

We all know what happens when we set our rubbish on fire. The fire will keep on burning until the combustible has burned out. And the end product of such combustion is always ashes. In the same vein, the wicked will end up in like manner; burn out completely, with the righteous trampling upon them, says the LORD of hosts.

You may want to go back to the scriptures concerning the subject. This time, please put aside all preconceived ideas and teachings of men. You'll find out that death is what it is: death; the cessation of life. Of course, Malachi 4:3 could as well be the foundation for your studies.

Cheers.

Yes, a proud believer in God who created the universe and all that is in it, and sustains same by His power.

maximunimpact:
Own goal indeed

The funny part is that no need for too much stress arguing with JWs because they made the work so simple

Their publications argue for and against themselves

I think that's right. After all like they say, "You can't be more Catholic than the pope". In the same vein, Maximus and others can't be more JWs than the GB.

maximunimpact:
JWs shoots themselves in the leg here
^{“Jehovah God is the Grand Identifier of his true messengers. He identifies them by making the messages he delivers through them come true. Jehovah is also the Great Exposer of false messengers. How does he expose them? He frustrates their signs and predictions. In this way he shows that they are self-appointed prognosticators, whose messages really spring from their own false reasoning – yes, their own fleshly thinking!” (Watchtower, 1997 May 1, pg. 8 ).}

Hmm. This one is called in football parlance as "own goal". Quite an interesting one. Going by this admission by Watchtower itself, JWs is

a self-appointed prognosticators, whose messages really spring from their own false reasoning – yes, their own fleshly thinking!

seeing that their signs and predictions is always frustrated and bring to nothing by God.

For example, this:

"October, 1914, will witness the full end of Babylon, "as a great millstone cast into the sea," utterly destroyed as a system." Watch Tower 1911 Jun 15 p.190 reprints p.4842

So we may ask: Has Babylon and its system been destroyed? Is that system not waxing even stronger and stronger instead?

Whilst about one-third of the Bible is prophecy, however, there's no prophecy that details the "date" nor "hour" of the end of this present age. Instead, what is found in the scriptures are clues or signs suggesting that the end is near. Now, the big difference between the scriptures and JWs false predictions or prophecies is that the latter has repeatedly, actually, arrogantly churned out dates that major events like Jesus second coming and the end of this present age will take place, something that Jesus Himself said:

But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only (Matthew 24:36)

He further added:

Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming (verse 42)

We may ask again: From who is JWs getting their predictions from? Whose inspiration if not from the father of lies, who speaks his native language? (John 8:44). Why will Watchtower arrogate to itself the knowledge of which only the Almighty possessed?

So it is very clear that JWs by their own admission and clear scriptures, is not of God but a group founded by Charles Taze Russell to propagate his lies and penchant for false prophecies.

Akinwaley11:
...is it proper or rather is it appropriate for me to eat it or is there any biblical references that speaks against it.

Salah meat comes from a sacrifice offered to Allah, the Muslim god; a meat to celebrate this god.

Also, we know that Christianity and Islam are two different religion with clear distinctive features. And Christians are instructed:

For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live (1 Corinthians 8:5-6)

In other words, the God of the Bible is the One and only God, with other so-called gods not existing. And since Muslims don't worship the God of the Bible nor follow His instructions as contained in His word, it means their god is not the same as a Christian's own.

Now, let's see in details what the bible says concerning things offered to idols or gods:

What am I saying then? That an idol is anything, or what is offered to idols is anything? Rather, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to demons and not to God, and I do not want you to have fellowship with demons (1 Corinthians 10:19-20)

There you have it. It is now left for you to make your own decision. Of course, all things are lawful but not all things are helpful. All things are lawful but not all things edify (verse 23).

---

Disclaimer: Please this is not an attack on anyone or religion. I write as one having both freedom of expression and right to religion.

Obakashdee:
Yes it’s answered
Thanks

You're welcome.

Obakashdee:
No because the question wasn’t answered

It has been answered. Let's further break it down.

The notion that God does not distribute wealth to everyone because those without wealth serves Him better is nothing but falsehood. As you've been shown from scriptures, God desires His children to prosper in all areas of their lives; to live abundantly.

What you read from that manual is wrong and should be discarded. Whoever teaches that God is anti-wealth for His people is teaching lies.

Do you understand now?

Kobojunkie:
[s]They are called scripture because they relate to God and not because they are meant as guides.[/s] The only guide provided us in Scripture is the Word of God, God's Law and Truth - the standard by which we are to live. [s]Everything else contained in scripture is subject to verification against the Truth[/s].

[s]So, for instance, what you read from the letters written by the apostles, even Paul, are meant to be validated against the standard, God's Word, before it can be considered truth or an opinion expressed. [/s]

So the one provided by Paul and others through inspiration are Satan's word?

You know nothing about the scriptures. Refrained from making mockery of God's word.

Obakashdee:
I <sup>read in a place, a Sunday school manual of one denomination that because the poor people have more mind to serve God and this causes God not to distribute wealth to all. I read it and was confused as to why he will do that.

Help me understand more?
Sense or not?</sup>

Okay, now understand the mind of God on wealth & prosperity for His people:

The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly. (John 10:10).

Think of all that makes life worth living: money, prosperity, peace, comfort etc, and be assured that it is God's own pleasure to give you these things abundantly.

And lastly:

Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things and be in health, just as your soul prospers (III John 1:2)

Just like Jesus said already, it is God's will that you prosper in all things. ALL means every area of your life is covered.

But of course, God requires something of you in order to enjoy His bountiful blessings, and that is:

But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17)

Now you understand.

Janosky:
Church of the saints indeed !

I'd advise you to desist from acting presumptuously. Please be guided properly.

MaxInDHouse:
^{Just like the topic of this thread, JWs only study God's word together and AGREE on the outcome of our research.
That's the secret of our ONENESS! John 17:20-23}

Oh nice.

However, be assured that UNITY & ONENESS; perfect agreement, is abundantly evident "in all churches of the saints" (1 Corinthians 14:33).

DappaD:
^{It’s not just the opinion of MaxIn.DHouse actually. That’s the official stand of Jehovah’s Witnesses, in fact Max quoted from the Insight on the Scriptures book published by JWs}.

That's fine.

DappaD:
^{So do not worry, Splin.z you’re free to believe what you want. No one will force you to believe otherwise}

Oh not at all, far from it. After all, the TRUTH remains. Thank you, DappaD.

MaxInDHouse:
You're welcome Sir!

Thank you, Maximus. Like I said earlier, your opinion on the Personage of Melchizedek is duly noted.

Thank you, Maximus.

MaxInDHouse:
Like other humans, Melchizedek was born and he died.

You're repeating the same thing DappaD said, which is a lie; falsehood. According to scripture, Melchizedek has no beginning [birth] and no end [death]. Should I listen to God or you? Acts 4:19.

However, I'd accept it for what it is; your opinion or assumption.

MaxInDHouse:
However, the names of his father and mother are not furnished, his ancestry and posterity are not disclosed, and the Scriptures contain no information about the beginning of his days or the end of his life.

Good.

Does the scriptures contain information on "Jehovah God's" father and mother, ancestry and posterity, beginning of His days or the end of His life? Does He even have any?

Thank you.

Thank you for the response, DappaD. Whilst I may not agree with you, nevertheless, I quite appreciate your feedback. Thank you.

You see, it can be correctly said that TWO cardinal qualities are the bedrock or foundation of a true worshipper or follower of Christ, and those two things are: 1. Holy Spirit 2. Truth (John 4:23). In fact, the Holy Father desires such worshippers.

What I'm saying is this. If we, either claimed, strived to be or know that we are true worshippers, then we must clinged to these qualities most especially the truth, as is our case here. That said, please let's look at our discussion again.

DappaD:
Melchizedek was a human being flesh and blood like you and me. And like us, he also had human parents.

DappaD, it appears you did not see the scripture I supplied, detailing who Melchizedek was. That's fine, I'd present it again right away:

^{For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all, first being translated “king of righteousness,” and then also king of Salem, meaning “king of peace,” without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, remains a priest continually (Hebrews 7:1-3)}

Whilst it needs no explanation, let's look at it anyway. These are the attributes or who Melchizedek is:

1. He is a King of righteousness and King of peace,

2. Melchizedek has no father, no mother, no genealogy, no beginning of days nor end of life.

My friend, is it right in the sight of God to listen to you more than to God? Judge (Acts 4:19). You're claiming that Melchizedek was human like us. But last I checked, I am not "Jehovah God" who is without beginning of days nor end of life. Are you? Also checking, I am not even a king not to talk of being a King of righteousness and King of peace. Again, is that you?

Remember, a true worshipper worships in TRUTH.

DappaD:
Unless you would want to explain his coming into existence.

Ah DappaD, now you're being biased. This is like me asking you to explain how "Jehovah God" came into existence, when it is clear that "Jehovah God" and Melchizedek are without beginning of days nor end of life.

There's no way out of it. It's either Melchizedek is the same as "Jehovah God" or we agree that "Jehovah God" is not the only One without beginning nor end of life. Don't you think?

DappaD:
so it make no sense saying that Jesus is God since Melchizedek was never God.

Okay, now explain it. How come Melchizedek shares the very same qualities and attributes that makes "Jehovah God" who He is? Put another way, what is the difference between "Jehovah God" and Melchizedek? Could it be that the former is without beginning and end of life but the latter has a beginning and end?

Thank you once again, DappaD. And please don't forget, a true worshipper worships God in TRUTH.

Dtruthspeaker:
^{Via her previous posts, she had shown that she possessed knowledge of these
matters so, I wonder what prompted this extract}.

Oh really. I see.

Dtruthspeaker:
^{By the way, that was a beautiful and accurate presentation.}

Thank you.

Dtruthspeaker:
I believe she knew this, but I wonder what she has in mind.

Or maybe she doesn't. Whatever the motive, the answer is provided for any who does not understand.

Preciousgirl:
Hebrews 10:20
[20]by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh,

To understand, we have to go back.

In the Old Testament, the tabernacle was built in such a way that, it consisted of two parts. The first part was were items like the showbread, lampstand, table etc was found. In the second part of the tabernacle which was equally called the "Holiest of All" was were the ark of the covenant and other sacredness was found. In fact, it was in this second part of the tabernacle that God dwelt.

In this setting of the tabernacle, the priests went into the first part daily, performing their services. But on the second part, only the high priest was permitted to enter once in a year, and he must go in there with animal blood to be offered for his own sin and the sin of the people. The meaning of this two part of the tabernacle was:

1. The first part or veil indicated that access to the very throne room of God was not yet opened to all,

2. The second part was the throne room of God Himself, where He sits and reign.

Now, when Christ came as a High Priest, not like the former who serves in the physical tabernacle, Christ came with a perfect tabernacle not that of corruption, and that tabernacle was His body. Not only that, as a High Priest, He also came with blood. But unlike former high priests who were required to go in with blood of goats and calves, Christ entered the Most Holy Place once for all, shedding His own blood. By so doing, He obtained an eternal redemption for us all, putting to an end the physical tabernacle and its activities. Now, everyone have access to God through christ. (Read Hebrews 9:1-15).

So here's what Hebrews 10:20 means. The new and living way is the one Christ has consecrated or commissioned for us through His body, having tore apart or putting to an end the veil/demarcation that existed between us and God. That is why and how Christ is the mediator between God and man. Through Him, we all have unhindered access to the Father.

Indeed, what a previlege!