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PLEASE NOTE: The A-Z of this text is based solely on the 2 topic below and nothing else. If you haven't seen it, please do well to go through it in other to know what was/is discussed. Thank you.

https://www.nairaland.com/6611596/many-christians-only-know-law/8#103088995

https://www.nairaland.com/6611596/many-christians-only-know-law/8#103097696

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Dear friends, greetings.

As must have been noticed by y'all, I saw this thread and picked interest, came in and decided to share my views. Of course, straight out of the Bible.

So I picked on 2 of OkCornel's hammering comments based on the 2 heading above, which I saw was littered everywhere, as he keeps on repeating the same thing over and over again, even though repeated answers were equally provided by some of you here. Yet, OkCornel wouldn't stop. So I said, maybe he needed answers truly. So I took those 2 questions or topics and provided undisputed answers; provable, straight out of the Bible. But as common with skewed agents like him, he left substance and fundamentals of what was addressed, of which he asked for, to chase shadows instead, grasping at straws no matter how death they may be.

Jesusjnr2020 came and was all emotions and subtle blackmails like, "you think you know more than Jesus"? and so on. He also came up with ridiculous claims. He claimed it was "lack of knowledge that'd make someone not to accept "glaring Truth". And I asked, what kind of knowledge would make someone to stood so low in accepting what is obviously the wisdom of the Pharisees; an earthly teaching devoid of sound principles and the wisdom of God; no prove whatsoever, in clear violation of 1 Thessalonians 5:21, other than creating a law straight out of thin air, with no prove as scripture demands, that it was either Jesus or His Father that issued such law? Are you confusing "hearsays" and "traditions"; mere fables, with knowledge? Or do you have problem understanding simple tenses? Since then, Jesusjnr2020 has been running from pillar to post.

I also called on MaxInDHouse to come and give help to OkCornel who was obviously drowning. After all, they're allies; always tagging their selves. But Max disappointed greatly, he came but couldn't say anything, so he ran away. Of course I like what he did. I mean, it's more honorable to keep quiet than to make a fool out of oneself. He's not an ex soldier for nothing after all: he must have learned when to retreat. So in fairness, this text is fair to all parties.

There's no tactics and dodge games OkCornel hasn't employed. For example, he claimed that in Exodus 23:4, the love wasn't to the owner of the donkey but to the donkey itself, just as predicted. In essence, OkCornel is telling us that one would rather show love to an enemy's animal than to the enemy itself. This is just how warp and myopic he is.

In another example, he claimed or according to him, "basic logic", that God did not tell the Israelites to love the Egyptians and Edomites but to be in-between; neither loving nor hating, which according to him is called "neutrality". And I responded that look, I'm not aware of any such clause with God, that the commandment has always been "love", either to oneself or to a neighbor. So seeing that all his useless arguments were falling like a pack of cards, he quickly changed gear from the picked up topic of "showing in the Torah, (according to him), from Exodus to Deuteronomy, where God instructed Israel to love their enemies" to "Show where God instructed Israel to love the Ammonites, Midianites etc". In his head, the Egyptians and Edomites that God used as examples of Israel's enemies and instructed them to show love to these enemies, weren't valid enemies or weren't even enemies. How shameless can one be.

And then Matthew 5:43-44, OkCornel claimed that Jesus made a "demarcation between an enemy and a neighbor", and like others of such baseless arguments, this claim too was conveniently refuted and a very simple task was given to him to prove otherwise, because no such demarcation existed. Dear friends, up to this moment, this fellow has not touched that task with a long pole, but keep running from pillar to post. It must be noted that whilst at it, he has repeatedly tried to drag me into what I never have any discussion with him about; out of the scope of our discussion, which is the parable in Luke 10. At each attempts, he has failed miserably, whilst I remained focus and consistent on what is discussed. Whilst he keeps on seeing an enemy and neighbor in that beautiful parable, it's a very simple thing to prove if there was an enemy in that parable, i.e, if Jesus saw an enemy other than a "neighbor", but because I am instructed to answer not a fool according to his folly lest I be like him (Proverbs 26:4), I have refrained from it.

Now, here are my conclusions based on findings:

1. That OkCornel has no desire whatsoever in learning the truth, but thrives and seeks only stupid and foolish arguments which must be avoided (2 Timothy 2:23), also, a very dishonest fellow,

2. That this fellow promotes a god that was seen as unloving and very callous in the Old Testament, who only instructed Israel to kill, destroy and hate their enemies without showing them any love. But in the New Testament, this his god suddenly changed from a monster to a very loving god who now requires love for enemies. This is yet, another red flag. According to the God of the Old and New Testament in the Bible, He changed not (Malachi 3:6, Hebrews 13:8 ). Obviously, OkCornel's god is a changing chameleon; very unstable.

3. Having given OkCornel ample opportunity to retrace his steps, of which he has failed to do so, it is advised and instructed that he should be avoided (Titus 3:10-11).

4. To all of you who have defended and stand firm in support of the truth, I salute y'all as a fellow traveller. Please, do well to keep the flag flying everywhere no matter the amount of intimidation from the camp of opposing forces.

5. I thank the thread owner, Jesusjnr2020, despite his ridiculous claims. And even him, OkCornel, but no thanks for allowing Satan to used him as a test practice. To MaxInDHouse, for being such a smart ex soldier. It is my hope and prayers that their darken hearts will shine forth light and their understanding enlightened.

Thank you.

OkCornel:
Please can you explain the shameful lies and uncommon falsehood I’m spreading here.

I’m enjoying this empty accusations of yours you can’t even explain.

9pm

MaxInDHouse:
Well if you can't PRESENT any group of people producing the fruit of God's Holy Spirit now it simply means you've been misinformed Sir!

Are you pained that your own group only produces lies and falsehood?

jesusjnr2020:
I have shown you that of Jesus but you refused to see it for some reasons known to you. You called it hearsay so perhaps you should ask God to open your eyes and heart so you could see the obvious Truth in the verse you mentioned.

Don't worry, I have so much time on my hands. So, I'd quote Matthew 5:43 for you again:

You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy

My friend, from where or who did the people hear that statement from? Who said it to them?

C'mon, I wasn't expecting this lame tactics from you. Or are those tenses too difficult to understand?

MaxInDHouse:
When the scriptures say Satan transformed himself into an angel of light does it also implies that his human agents will be able to produce the FRUIT of God's Holy Spirit? Galatians 5:22-23

Can a goat give birth to a cow? Trust me, I know of a spirit that produces lies, whose spirit you have.

OkCornel:
Defend myself from what exactly?

Shameful lies and uncommon falsehood. Your shenanigans wouldn't help.

Anyway, you have till 9pm today to complete the simple task you were given. The discussion I'm having with you is based on two of your own raised topic, one of which is Matthew 5. And no amount of deviation and tactics will suffice.

jesusjnr2020:
Lol!
Jesus sayings is now "hearsays" and the traditions of men and not scriptures?

Show me such a say, said by Jesus or His Father in Matthew 5:43. Nor any of the prophets.

Stop quoting irrelevant passages for me. Why is it so difficult for you and OkCornel to stay focused on what is being discussed? My friend, be consistent. Stay on what is asked; Matthew 5:43.

MaxInDHouse:
The lies that has picked people from all races across the globe and turned them into one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers, shey? Micah 4:1-3 compare to Matthew 5:13-16; John 17:20-23
In fact the world really need that lie Sir! Luke 12:10-12

Supposing this was true, is it a surprise? Oh c'mon, even Satan is transformed into an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14). Are you misinformed?

MaxInDHouse:
Lies can never hold a united people from different races together as ONE, what i'm saying has brought people from different races together as one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers! Isaiah 2:2-4 compare to John 17:20-23
I'm sorry for you and your impotent god!

Your god? He has always been a liar (John 8:44). You're of your father, spinning lies wherever you go.

truespeak:
See attempt to reargue an already settled matter which you could not Rebut or Counter!

Very hilarious. His case is a classic example of grasping at straws.

He was also full of emotions throughout. Wish he knew that God does not work based on sentiments and emotions, but on wisdom and sound principles.

Dtruthspeaker:
So it is unconnected and inapplicable here for The Law Giver Issued a different Command, Under His Rights to issue Commands

Dtruth, well done.

Can you believe that a simple task was given to OkCornel and up till now, he is nowhere to be found, only hanging on to death straws?

Call help for him if you can, and please stick around in the evening.

https://www.nairaland.com/6611596/many-christians-only-know-law/8#103097696

MaxInDHouse:
I've told you the truth and presented the group practicing it so if my explanation is not enough go and study the group i presented but if you don't agree no problem continue worshiping your God with your brethren!

The one and only MaxInDHouse! Now run along. It's obvious you have no more lies to spin around. Or perhaps, you're scared of being caught in another evil web.

truespeak:
Speak for yourself!

We Dwell with Him, He has Never Deserted us!

By the way, why is he forcing words on Jesus mouth, seeing that the Lord neither gave such a wicked commandment nor His Father?

Maybe Op has been deserted.

truespeak:
Bro, I Stand and Defend The Truth only thus I Stand against Untruths and Lies thus you would Never find me on the side Against Truth!

Never!

Then I'm afraid, Cornel is in big trouble.

Stick around for the final verdict on him when evening comes. He has from now till evening, on or before 9pm to defend himself.

Watch out.

jesusjnr2020:
It's only lack of knowledge that would make anyone object that glaring Truth!

Prove all things. Hold fast that which is good. 1 Thessalonians 5:21

You want to know what lack of knowledge is? It's the inability to PROVE your supposed "glaring Truth" in the scripture, but instead, based your doctrines and commandments on "hearsays" and "tradition of men". Here's another hammer on you:

And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men. Matthew 15:9

Shame.

truespeak:
@ the bolded!

Bro this is a serious matter.

Like MaxInDHouse here: https://www.nairaland.com/6616284/gods-moral-law-10-commandments/3#103054853

OkCornel is caught in an evil web that he spined around himself. I must confess, his condition is critical and trust me, there's no way out except of course, he admits either of spreading falsehood purposely or ignorantly, of which he will be forgiven. After all, no one is above mistake.

That is the only available option, and he has now till evening. I think he need our support at this time, and the least you can do is to send help his way.

truespeak:
Wrong!

Christ did not say "it was said" as you wish to cut it to, but He Specifically said "“You have heard that it was said," meaning "you hear say" which is a hearsay as I have already answered here before, therefore not the Law but People's sayings, therefore your reliance on it fails!

Refreshing. Thank you.

By the way, have you seen the simple task I gave to OkCornel? Check it: https://www.nairaland.com/6611596/many-christians-only-know-law/8#103097696

I was hoping he'll smack it down immediately but unfortunately, he is nowhere to be found around that task. Do you have someone that may assist him?

OkCornel:
In Matthew 5 v 43-44, is your enemy also considered a neighbor?

The answer is here: https://www.nairaland.com/6611596/many-christians-only-know-law/8#103097696

Find it. You're wasting time Cornel. Luke 10 is waiting.

OkCornel:
And while at it, also prove to us if the robbers who attacked the traveller, and the Levite and Priest that ignored him are also his neighbors.

And the dance of shame continues, and this is obvious to even the blind.

I'd wait till evening to see if you'll be able to come up with anything tangible. What a shame it'd be that you can't even make an attempt on the given task.

C'mon Cornel, you can do better. Call for help if you can, it's allowed.

jesusjnr2020:
It wasn't a Law so who said it?

Brother, this question has been answered already.

jesusjnr2020:
That you can't find where the Law was precisely written or stated, doesn't mean it wasn't a Law, because for Jesus to say "it was said", that alone should tell you that it was a commandment given either directly or indirectly to the people of Israel.

The towering question still remains: Who gave the people such a law or commandment; who said it? Because as far as the scripture is concerned, God never did, either directly by Himself or indirectly through any of His prophets. So who did?

The one other option left is fable or tradition. And since when did Christians start believing fables as doctrines or commandments?

I want us to understand something very simple here. No one is above mistake. Personally, it cost me nothing to say sorry when I am wrong or to own my mistakes. But you see this very attitude of wanting to win arguments and not to learn, it's very dangerous, especially to a supposed Christian, honestly.

Can we all agree that Matthew 5:43 is what it is or continue deceiving ourselves?[/quote]

OkCornel:
If your enemies are also considered to be neighbors, just explain why Jesus said these words below. This is too simple and straightforward. No running around.

Matthew 5 v 43-44;

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.

Conveniently explained and dusted, with an unfinished task still standing. Do you have problems with comprehension?

By the way, go ahead and call other friends. Perhaps our friend, MaxInDHouse or any other person can be of assistance to you in solving the task. And like I promised, I'd humbly tender my apologies. Also, when this task has been done, I promise to address Luke 10. But for now, we have an unfinished business with Matthew 5:43-44.

OkCornel:
No need for the roundabout games.

This is roundabout games:

OkCornel:
I’m repeating these questions because you have given no scriptural reference that proves;

1. Your enemy is also your neighbor.
2. The Torah (Specifically exodus to Deuteronomy) instructed Israelites to love their enemies!

Cornel, I find it rather amusing that you could be this way. How convenience it is for you to suddenly, like a typical skewed fellow, switched from what was earlier asked to now asking of Moabites and Ammonites, without first admitting that you goofed when you made that unfortunate statement. Your pack of cards came crashing and you immediately find straws to hang on.

The question you're shamelessly avoiding and going round in circles is: Were the Egyptians and Edomites for example, Israel's friends or enemies? Did God instruct Israel to hate and kill them off?

Only when you fundamentally addressed the original bone of contention can any other question from you be taken serious. But of course as expected, you can continue spinning round in circles.

How shameless.

jesusjnr2020:
If "neighbor" in the context of "love your neighbors as yourself" truly means all men including your enemies, then why did Jesus say, "Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy."? Matthew 5:43 (KJV)

Or are you implying that Jesus didn't know that "neighbor" included the person's enemies, hence there was no need for that amendment?

That was not even a law to start with, warranting a supposed amendment from Jesus.

Explained here: https://www.nairaland.com/6611596/many-christians-only-know-law/8#103097696

Take up the task if you can.

OkCornel:
Ah…I see.

So does the same instruction still applicable in the New Testament? Are we to love some human enemies and hate some human enemies?

Was it ever applicable in the Old Testament?

OkCornel:
In all you’ve stated, I have not seen one scriptural reference where an enemy can also be classified as a neighbor.

You were everywhere with a supposed demarcation where Jesus supposedly introduced a new law as against

You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy

and that so-called demarcation which you think was to show a neighbor from an enemy or show a supposed new teaching, was conveniently refuted, with a challenge still untouched.

And all you could come up with is this funny excuse, really? Unbelievable.

OkCornel:
Jesus also made it clear who your enemies are.

No such clearance as far as Matthew 5:43-44 is concerned. It doesn't exist; no demarcation.

By the way, don't forget your task.

OkCornel:
Basic logic. Do not hate the Egyptian or Edomites doesn’t translate automatically to love the Egyptian and Edomites.

Oh, logic is here too. The other time it was neutrality. What next?

Wonderful things in here.

OkCornel:
Were the Amalekites, Ammonites and Moabites not also the enemies of Israel? Did God command the Israelites to love these enemies too hmmm?

No. He told them to love the Egyptians and Edomites and to hate the rest.

OkCornel:
Jesus made a demarcation between neighbors and enemies here;

Matthew 5 v 43-44;

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.

No Cornel, no such demarcation exist in verse 43 neither is verse 44 a supposed new teaching or commandment. Careless reading is why you're seeing it that way.

Now, let's look at it one more time:

You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.

The question is: Where or from whom did the people hear such a law or commandment from? Who taught or authored such law? Did God or any of His prophets teach or gave such law? Just, who said it? If anyone can find any of this answer to these questions in the scripture, I'd gladly tender an apology to such person.

You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy

Anyone up for the challenge?

Cornel, understand. What Jesus said in verse 43 was neither an existing law nor affirmation of such law or commandment, supposedly from God or any of His prophets. Rather, what Jesus stated there was simply the tradition or teaching of the people. We all know the Pharisees right? This people, being that they were teachers of the law and scholars of the time, were notorious in churning out all sort of laws, rules, teachings, customs and traditions, that God has not authorized, all in a bid to be seen as righteous or men of high repute.

As an example of the Pharisees excesses, take a look at Mark 7:4-16, and see how Jesus call out their madness.

Lastly I repeat, Jesus neither stated an existing law or commandment from God nor affirms such. Rather, He was telling the people to do away with such practice and embrace verse 44, which has always been God's position. In any case, the challenge still stands for anyone to try. I shall wait for a response.

OkCornel:
@Splinz, I’m really keen on you showing us where in the Torah God instructed the Israelites to love the Amalekites or Moabites i.e. Israel’s enemies.

Hmm. So the Egyptians and other example provided were not enemies but friends?

What a way to learn. Thanks.

OkCornel:
I’m aware of these verses. Please explain to us how;

Oh really? So it's obvious then. You were not looking for an answer.

OkCornel:
1. Preventing animal cruelty to a donkey that belongs to someone that hates you automatically means love for that enemy. Are you showing love to your enemy? Or are you preventing animal cruelty to the donkey of that enemy. You just inserted your assumption in the first example that God told the Israelites to love their enemies because they had to help a wounded or burdened animal belonging to them.

How predictable. But like I told you, make out of it what you want.

OkCornel:
2. Please also explain to us how not abhoring an Edomite/Egyptian automatically means you should love them? Are there not people you can treat neutrally? (neither hate them nor love them?)

Neutrality you said? I'm not aware of neutrality with God. The command has always been love. So it's either love or hate.

OkCornel:
3. Following on from question 2, other nations which were enemies of Israel e.g. the Philistines, Amorites, Moabites, Amalekites, Midianites, Canaanites etc. Please can you show us where in the Torah God specifically asked the Israelites to love these people?

Cornel, are you saying that the Egyptians and Edomites weren't enemies enough? An enemy was an enemy, whether they were Amorites, Midianites, Egyptians etc.

By the way, your original question was to show where God instructed Israel to love their enemies, and this has been shown. There's no other way to describe or called what God told the Israelites to do in those two examples I provided if not love, that's if you're sincere with yourself.

Like, were you expecting God to call out every of Israel's enemies by name before you know or believe that He told Israel to love their enemies? Incredible.

Oh well, thanks for your time.

OkCornel:
I’m repeating these questions because you have given no scriptural reference that proves;

2. The Torah (Specifically exodus to Deuteronomy) instructed Israelites to love their enemies

Cornel, I hope you're not in anyway trying to insinuate that the Torah, and by extension the God that stands behind it, lacks love or restricted love to only the Israelites and also instructed them to do so? Let's assume for a second that it is so. That means in the New Testament, God changed from "hate your enemies" to "love your enemies", a clear contradiction and violation of, "For I am the LORD, I change not" (Malachi 3:6, Hebrews 13:8 ).

Do with the assumption as you pleases and make sense out of it if there's any. Now, let's find the answer to your question above:

If you see the donkey of one who hates you lying under its burden, and you would refrain from helping it, you shall surely help him with it. (Exodus 23:5)

You shall not abhor an Edomite, for he is your brother. You shall not abhor an Egyptian, because you were an alien in his land. (Deuteronomy 23:7)

In the first example, we see how God instructed Israel to show love to their enemies and of course, their properties, e.g, donkey. Again, let's make another assumption. Let's assume that this is not love to the owner of the donkey but to the donkey itself. Yet again, make sense out of it.

Next, we see God instructing His people to love (opposite of hate) their worst of enemies. The two nations mentioned as we know, were very hostile and powerful enemies that if not for God, would have wipe Israel off the face of the earth. Shall we talk of Egypt and what they did to God's people? Yet God told His people not to hate them.

If these are not instructions from God to Israel, to love their enemies, then perhaps my understanding has failed me.

truespeak:
Is this Not Already Covered by the Commandments of God aptly captured by "Love your Neighbours" ? You have only supplied the proof that Christ gave no different Law from God's Already Established Law, His Law is God's Law, they are one and the same!

When will they understand that the Ten Commandments is nothing both LOVE & MERCY?

Well done.