₦airaland Forum

olojuede01:
Meaning

Have you read the passage?

olojuede01:
How​ does the church know which people are in heaven

The Church doesn't seek to know everyone that is in heaven, however God makes known those he wants to elevate among his People on earth, that their lives may serve as a testimony to his awesomeness and an encouragement to his faithful. The Church only declares what God has revealed.

olojuede01:
So are they resident in the Vatican or their home country

They are resident in our common eternal home 2 Cor.5:1

rexbuton:
Hello Sir, I'd like to join this debate.

POINT1 is very correct. We are expected to pray for others, Kings, the country etc . Very correct.
However there is something we must clarify. You definitely would argue that you don't pray to the saints, but you pray through them. Let's look at this scenario, I talk to Mr. A to help me tell Mr B that I need a watch. This means that I spoke to Mr A. We can't say I didn't speak to Mr A, that instead I spoke through him. It is impossible. Me and Mr A definitely had a conversation. Now let us substitute ''talk/speak'' with 'pray'. I pray to Mr A to help me pray to Mr B that I need a new watch or a new pen. You see my point?
Yet you say you don't pray to the saints... Let's add something, do the saints have the capability to hear you? Heb9.27 says " For it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement: KJV" Pending judgement, these people are asleep John 11:11-13, Acts 13:36,1 Thessalonians 4:13 if you dispute these read up 1Sam 28 when Saul conjured up the prophet Samuel... In Deut 18.11 God expressly forbids any consultation with the dark arts in whatever form including Necromancy - Communication with the dead!

POINT2 has been partially dealt with above. The righteous man you speak of may not have the capability to assist me, as we aren't even 100% sure of his redemption. Even if this person is in paradise already, would he be concerned about the temporal problems on earth? The verse you quoted doesn't relate, only the living can pray for a living person only. Anything outside that is very likely to be ineffective in line with biblical evidence.

POINT3 (1Tim 2:1) "I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men" Emphasis on the bolded. All men. The dead are not men in this context. They are dead. Your explanation further goes on to contradict your original idea and also buttress the fact that Jesus Christ is the only way to His Father, our God. Jn 14.6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

I'll follow your posts closely

You are welcome.

Response to Point 1. It is not your prerogative to tell me what my relationship with saints are, I ask them to pray for me Just as you ask your Pastor to pray for you, they are my elder brothers and sisters in the faith. Whether you call this relationship "pray to or pray through" It really doesn't matter to me. And please do not accuse Jesus of Necromancy, for it is clear He spoke with Moses and Elijah after their death. Matt.17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. Kindly find out the difference before your accusations.

Response to Point 2. Sorry, the saints we are speaking of in this context are in heaven, there is no maybe in it. One in heaven is in the perfection of righteousness. Yes they are concerned about what happens to their brethren on earth, many passages in scripture proves this. Again it is left for you to believe Jesus, "In the same way, there is more joy in heaven over one lost sinner who repents and returns to God..." Lk.15:7. They know what their fellow members of that one body are doing here on earth, for "we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses" Heb 12:1.

Response to Point 3. "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; Rev.7:9 It's obvious the writer of the Revelation was talking about People, humans, men, why you argue with him is what I don't know. My explanation is clear, if you don't understand it isn't my fault.

Rich4god:
Happy Sunday guys....

What a busy day for Syncan.... Keep it up....


We continue to pray to God to improve our faith in Him...

Are you saying am working on Sunday?

A splendid Sunday to you bro.

stunningjudy:
Happy Sunday. Happy mothers day to every woman on earth.

How many of us said the rosary yesterday, May 13th which was the Centenary celebration of Our Lady of Fatima? Well I did and I asked for a testimony this morning and I got it! I asked for different favours on different days and I believe in my heart, Our Lady of Fatima will answer my petition. During this May devotion, don't relent, pick up your rosary and keep praying. Have a blessed week.

You again! Nne am going to relocate to your area, make I de collect the testimonies wey de fall throway abeg.

A splendid Sunday to you.

Iamzik:
Good start.

At least you quoted the Bible. We are getting there.

The scripture you quoted below, is Paul talking to living people listening to him or talking to dead saints or asking us to pray through them? Because if you read on it says:

(1 Timothy 2:2 KJV) For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
.
.
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(1 Timothy 2:5 KJV) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Jesus is the mediator, I agree, Yet it does not nullify (1Tim 2:1) "I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men

BTW I appreciate that we are both looking into the word of God together. Even heaven is happy... *smiles*

I don't know why you say those who died in Christ are not Living, are you calling Jesus a liar? When he called Abraham, Isaac and Jacob Living in Mk.12:27, was he telling a lie?

Ontarget:
Oh. I thought you were iaamxaxier. That was what iaamxaxier said.

It's ok, now I understand it was a mistake. However am sure what he was trying to do was tell you that the making of Image was not what was condemned (for God himself still went ahead to order it's making), but making something and actually taking that thing as God.

rossyc:
How about Lucy?

Lucia stayed longer as promised by the Blessed Virgin, She died in 2005. You know the Church na, her life on earth has to be studied and if she is worthy of elevation to that rank, she will be pronounced such in future

Iamzik:
I don't blame you for not knowing where to quote. You actually don't read the Bible. You only memorize all those prayer you were taught from the cradle.

I quoted the Bible because the word of God is the foundation of my faith. Why can't you quote one single verse that approves praying through angel, Mary or saint?

You want to know my church? Well let me shock you. Church association is not a requirement to make heaven. And you so much pride yourself in 1.2billion that can never be wrong because they are majority. Well, hear what the Bible says;

(Matthew 7:13 KJV) Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

The multitude was wrong in the days of Noah and they will be wrong again. Admission to heaven is not by simple human majority vote. One with God is majority and Noah's family is an example.

Educate me please. Show me the verse of Bible. I'm still waiting....

We the members of the Church pray for and request prayers from one another. 1Tim 2:1 "I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men". Also look at 1Thess.5:25 and Eph.6:19


If you don't need their help,I have no problem with that, but don't condemn me for asking a righteous person to pray for me because "The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective". James 5:16

Jesus is the mediator, I agree, Yet it does not nullify (1Tim 2:1) "I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men". St. Paul calls us to intercession, yet we know that Christ continues to intercede, since (Heb 7:24-25) says: "But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them". St Paul knows this eternal Intercessory role of Christ, yet he exhorts the faithful to "Intercessions for all men" without fear of contradiction, it therefore means that we can participate in these aspect of Christ's ministry according to the level of "bonding" between us and Jesus without anyone feeling that recognition is taking away from Christ.

olojuede01:
Thanks for the explanation. But is this a ceremonial title or do they have an official role in the church?

Their lives become an example to the members of the church, it is now a practical example of how to live a holy life and make heaven. It becomes an encouragement to those who think it isn't possible. They now are called upon by their brothers and sisters still here on earth to pray for them, for since they are now confirmed to be righteous, their prayers will avail much.

The prayers of the righteous man availeth much James 5:16

Priceless200:
Wow! So long so good. Nice.

What about the third fatima child, Lucia I think. I remember they were three, (Umu aka ito) that Mary appeared to in Fatima. The root of the block rosary crusade. Mehn. Things Av really changed oo.

Lucia stayed longer as promised by the Blessed Virgin, She died in 2005. You know the Church na, her life on earth has to be studied and if she is worthy of elevation to that rank, she will be pronounced such in future.

Youdondeymad:
Lmao,they are coming for you.

It is only fools that will rush were angels fear to tread.

Ontarget:
Na wah o. Were you not the one who justfied Catholics bowing to images of Jesus and Mary by saying God asked the Israelites to bow to the serpent?

Why do you lie? Show me my post saying that.

Youdondeymad:
Hahahahaahhahhaha,I just can't stop laughing.You just proved to me that you a religious bigot,this thread is for catholics,why are commenting on it,what an irony...I love this comic relief...


3

Do not be surprised, when the sons of God gathered, Satan came along Job.1:6

Ontarget:
The instruction came from God directly. But God didn't give Catholics the instruction to make and bow to images of Jesus and Mary which are likeness of what is in heaven.

Very lame. So you're saying God contradicted himself abi.

thesuave10:
Nope actually says the one who doesn't believe in lies. Coming from who believes in someone he has never seen lol you don't even have an imagination of what he looks like so no reality + no imagination. MA Nigga is delusional

You simply like to hear yourself. How many posts now yet no proof of the Intellectual capacity brouhaha, just a continuation of claims from a warped imagination, it's getting boring bro.

thesuave10:
You're the one believing in lies my man in fact you're swimming in them. When you die, you'll realize that. So sad

Says the one who is yet to die. Your imagination is now running wild.

Amberon:
Those who are true believers are the Church of God, Not your catholic church as you've been deluded and indoctrinated to believe.

Anyone who follows and worships God in truth and in spirit can hear from him. Once again, the church of God is not the building, but His true followers. Hearing from God is not restricted to what denomination or church you belong to.

Acts 2 v 17 'And it shall come to pass in the last days , says God , That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy , Your young men shall see visions , Your old men shall dream dreams.

18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall prophesy.

I hope you got that.
[/b]

Jesus established a Church Mt.16:18, The Church teach one gospel, under one shepherd, that's why even paul could go over to the apostles to ensure his teachings were in line Gal.2:2. It is an error to say that all these people claiming patency to the Holy spirit, yet teaching different things are the church. That's not the Church of Christ. Sorry.

thesuave10:
Thank you. Also note my progress in intellectual capacity to challenge the credibility of these children Cuz they are as fake as the pope and the Catholic Church

Hahahaha, your progress in learning was visible to all, seems your claim to intellectual capacity bla bla bla lies in your imagination alone.

thesuave10:
[/b] THIS FATIMA STORY IS FAKE. THOSE CHILDREN ARE DELUSIONAL AND ARE IN HELL. THIS POPE FRANCIS DOESN'T HAVE SENSE. [b]

We've noted your progress in learning how to write, next thing to learn is small letters, then how to use both in a sentence.

ikorodureporta:
All this kyn tinz dey confuse me....

Make e no confuse you, if you want know, you go know.

Amberon:
Only God knows who the saints are. You can appear holy unto men but only God knows what you conceive in your heart and even what you do in your bedroom in secret.

Sorry. The true church of God hears from him, and tells the world his revealed truth, that's why the church was so bold to say :

For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, Acts 15:28

free2ryhme:
Thou shall not bow before any graven image

Clap for yourself, you just memorized your first bible passage.

Fatima, Portugal, May 13, 2017 / 03:28 am (CNA/EWTN News).- Pope Francis on Saturday officially declared Francisco and Jacinta Marto saints of the Catholic Church in front of hundreds of thousands of pilgrims at Fatima, Portugal – teaching us that even young children can become saints.

“For the honor of the Blessed Trinity, the exaltation of the Catholic faith and the increase of the Christian life, by the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Apostles Peter and Paul, and our own, after due deliberation and frequent prayer for divine assistance, and having sought the counsel of many of our brother Bishops, we declare and define Blessed Francisco Marto and Jacinta Marto to be saints,” Pope Francis exclaimed May 13 as the crowd roared with applause.

“We enroll them among the Saints, decreeing that they are to be venerated as such by the whole Church. In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”

Pope Francis presided over their canonization Mass during his two-day pilgrimage to Fatima, Portugal May 12-13 to take part in celebrations for the 100th anniversary of the appearance of Our Lady of Fatima.

The brother and sister, Francisco and Jacinta, who tended to their families’ sheep with their cousin Lucia Santo in the fields of Fatima, witnessed the apparitions of Mary, now commonly known as Our Lady of Fatima.

In her message to the children, Mary brought with her requests for conversion, prayer (particularly the recitation of the rosary), sacrifices on behalf of sinners, and a three-part secret regarding the fate of the world.

The children followed Mary’s requests, praying often, giving their lunch to beggars and going without food themselves. They offered up their daily crosses and even refrained from drinking water on hot days.

With anti-Catholic sentiment very prevalent in the country, the mayor in the district of Fatima had grown suspicious of the growingly popular apparitions, and had unsuccessfully tried to get the children to renounce their story.

Wanting to stop the children from seeing the fourth apparition, Artur Santos, an apostate Catholic and high Mason who was the local mayor, devised a ruse to kidnap the children before the scheduled day of her appearance.

Despite bribes, threats of death by burning oil, and threatening to lock them in a cell with criminals, the children never recanted their story.

Convicted by Mary’s requests and the vision of hell, both children lived lives of prayer and penance after the apparitions, offering themselves for sinners as Mary had asked. Francisco was known for his devotion to the Eucharist and his strict physical mortifications, while Jacinta was especially known for having a heart for the poor and the suffering.

Both children fell victim to the influenza epidemic of 1918 that swept through Europe. In October 1918, Mary again appeared to the sick siblings and promised to take them to heaven soon. On April 3, 1919, Francisco declined hospital treatment for influenza and died the next day.

Jacinta was given hospital treatment in hopes of prolonging her life, but she knew that she would soon join Francisco in heaven. On February 19, 1920, Jacinta asked the hospital chaplain who heard her confession to bring her Holy Communion and administer the last rites, because she was going to die “the next night.” But the priest said that her condition was not that serious and that he would return the next day. The next day Jacinta was found dead – she had died in her sleep.

Pope John Paul II beatified Francisco and Jacinta May 13, 2000, on the 83rd anniversary of the first apparition of Our Lady at Fatima. Both under 12 years old, they were the youngest non-martyrs to be beatified in the history of the Church.

Sister Lucia, the third visionary, lived much longer, dying in 2005 at the age of 97. The Church is currently examining documents and collecting testimonies for her beatification cause.

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/francisco-and-jacinta-have-officially-been-declared-saints-38630/

May their lives inspire us to a life of sacrifice and holiness.

Ubenedictus:
From a homily on the Gospels by Saint Gregory the Great, pope

Christ the good shepherd

I am the good shepherd.  I know my own — by which I mean, I love them — and my own know me....  

...Turn now to consider how these words of our Lord imply a test for yourselves also.  Ask yourselves whether you belong to his flock, whether you know him, whether the light of his truth shines in your minds.  I assure you that it is not by faith that you will come to know him, but by love; not by mere conviction, but by action.  John the evangelist is my authority for this statement.  He tells us that anyone who claims to know God without keeping his commandments is a liar.


Consequently, the Lord immediately adds:  As the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for my sheep.  Clearly he means that laying down his life for his sheep gives evidence of his knowledge of the Father and the Father’s knowledge of him.  In other words, by the love with which he dies for his sheep he shows how greatly he loves his Father.

Again he says:  My sheep hear my voice, and I know them; they follow me, and I give them eternal life.  Shortly before this he had declared:  If anyone enters the sheepfold through me he shall be saved; he shall go freely in and out and shall find good pasture.  He will enter into a life of faith; from faith he will go out to vision, from belief to contemplation, and will graze in the good pastures of everlasting life.

So our Lord’s sheep will finally reach their grazing ground where all who follow him in simplicity of heart will feed on the green pastures of eternity.  These pastures are the spiritual joys of heaven.  There the elect look upon the face of God with unclouded vision and feast at the banquet of life for ever more.

Beloved brothers, let us set out for these pastures where we shall keep joyful festival with so many of our fellow citizens.  May the thought of their happiness urge us on!  Let us stir up our hearts, rekindle our faith, and long eagerly for what heaven has in store for us.  To love thus is to be already on our way.  No matter what obstacles we encounter, we must not allow them to turn us aside from the joy of that heavenly feast.  Anyone who is determined to reach his destination is not deterred by the roughness of the road that leads to it.  Nor must we allow the charm of success to seduce us, or we shall be like a foolish traveler who is so distracted by the pleasant meadows through which he is passing that he forgets where he is going.


Are we members of the sheepfold?

A rich flowing sermon.

Ubenedictus:
I imagine that you will notice, nothing dey pass you by.

Chai. Now he's known one of my weaknesses.

Ubenedictus:
From the treatise On the Prescription of Heretics by Tertullian, priest
(Cap. 20:1-9; 21, 3; 22, 8-10: CCL 1, 201-204)

The preaching of the apostles

Our Lord Jesus Christ himself declared what he was, what he had been, how he was carrying out his Father’s will, what obligations he demanded of men. This he did during his earthly life, either publicly to the crowds or privately to his disciples. Twelve of these he picked out to be his special companions, appointed to teach the nations.

One of them fell from his place. The remaining eleven were commanded by Christ, as he was leaving the earth to return to the Father after his resurrection, to go and teach the nations and to baptize them into the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

The apostles cast lots and added Matthias to their number, in place of Judas, as the twelfth apostle. The authority for this action is to be found in a prophetic psalm of David. After receiving the power of the Holy Spirit which had been promised to them, so that they could work miracles and proclaim the truth, they first bore witness to their faith in Jesus Christ and established churches throughout Judea. They then went out into the whole world and proclaimed to the nations the same doctrinal faith.

They set up churches in every city. Other churches received from them a living transplant of faith and the seed of doctrine, and through this daily process of transplanting they became churches. They therefore qualify as apostolic churches by being the offspring of churches that are apostolic.

Every family has to be traced back to its origins. That is why we can say that all these great churches constitute that one original Church of the apostles; for it is from them that they all come. They are all primitive, all apostolic, because they are all one. They bear witness to this unity by the peace in which they all live, the brotherhood which is their name, the fellowship to which they are pledged. The principle on which these associations are based is common tradition by which they share the same sacramental bond.

The only way in which we can prove what the apostles taught—that is to say, what Christ revealed to them—is through those same churches. They were founded by the apostles themselves, who first preached to them by what is called the living voice and later by means of letters.

The Lord had said clearly in former times: I have many more things to tell you, but you cannot endure them now. But he went on to say: When the Spirit of truth comes, he will lead you into the whole truth. Thus Christ shows us that the apostles had full knowledge of the truth, for he had promised that they would receive the whole truth through the Spirit of truth. His promise was certainly fulfilled, since the Acts of the Apostles prove that the Holy Spirit came down on them.

Hahahaha, Tertullian should come to our age, this sound argument would have been a waste to the modern day protestant. They will simply wait for him to finish and then say "support it with bible", forgetting they are talking with one whose parents listened to the apostles.

Ubenedictus:
no, am in the East right now and the closest chaplaincy is st Joseph the worker.

Hmm. A university comes to mind. Jnrbayano confirm copied...over.

Ubenedictus, in a split second of wandering imagination, I just tried to place St.Attanasius or Ireneus where Pope Francis is now...Ehm..How you see am? Well...Their world was different.

PastorAIO:
Please at what point in history, after withdrawing and regrouping, did Satan join the church to mix up everything and become their leader? Just the year will do. And why was God so powerless to rebuff this attack?


And please, what is the problem with semantics exactly? You make it sound like a dirty word.

Are you suggesting that one shouldn't strive to get the meaning of a text?

If you ever get the answer to the bolded, then you aren't wasting your time, else....

analice107:
My dear, the RCC never gave us the Bible. You can't publish another persons work posthumously and then claim authorship of the work.

The Bible was in use long before the RCC saw the light of day.

This is not true Analice, a number of books were in use, including: the shepherd, gospel of Barnabas, third letter of paul to the Corinthians, didache etc . The Catholic church decided on these ones in your bible, some "christians " still use those books, but the catholic church rejected them in her own canons, why do you believe her? And was she led by the Holy Spirit?