₦airaland Forum

luckyCO:
Now why do you request that only catholic members should come out and receive holy communion instead of all?
I will come back later to scripture quoting Gods grace, am only using what we see day to day to see if I can open your eye such that you will know that roman system is really is.

Simple. To Partake in the body and blood of Jesus requires conditions. Don't you even read scriptures? 1Cor.11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

The death of Christ is for all, but to feed of his body and blood there are conditions, else it brings damnation.

luckyCO:
Sorry what it the facts put forward before?
Bible said For you and for many(matt 26) and for you and for all are the same even when bible clearly stated that the remission of sin is for many not for all, the roman has used that for ages whereas Moses(Num 20:11) was asked to hit the staff once and he hit twice, we saw his consequence.

But why after Holy communion you will request that only catholic church will come and receive, that is the fact they have presented?
Note: the books they read I equally read it too where they twisted scriptures to defend roman religion we are all know the source of that power.

This is Jesus words in Matt. 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Now I ask you how your so called revelation has interpreted this place for you: was the blood of Christ shed for all mankind or are the're some He didn't shed it for?

NoWorries7:
Please kindly remove Christianity from there... Nothing concerns Christianity and Catholicism. Roman Catholicism is a cult and not a church...

Prov 19:9- A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who breathes out lies will perish.

1Pet 2:1-2 - So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander. Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation... to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. ...

niftin:
That sabbath day which is the seventh day is of the Jewish religion, we are not Jewish we are Christian. The church which decided to make the Sunday a day of worship and any day for its activities was born after the death and resurrection of Christ through the inspiration of holy spirit. For Christ said what ever this church obtains on earth is considered obtained in heaven and what it lose on earth is lost in heaven. The jews do not recognise Christ as the son of God. So whoever is following what date they fix is actually straying from Christ. Christ is future for which ever nation God chooses to call his own people. Don't be confuse. Do your research and fix your facts together.

Pay no heed to the adventist, it's their life long mission to fight the Holy Catholic Church; and not to preach the Good news as Christ commanded.

luckyCO:
Am praying for them but not for the world John 17 esp vs 7-8, how about the scripture?
If you see such scriptures you know that you need revelation to understand them, the bible said the wise shall understand.

Then why did the church change to Latin Mass, maybe it will help understand?

Oga, it is a different thing to pray for, and a different thing to die for, it is no doubt that Jesus prayed for different people at different times, but it is a lie against scripture to claim that he didn't die for all.

Sorry, it is not revelations that interprete scriptures for you, that's why there are thousand and one interpretations claiming Holy spirit say..... Scripture itself tells you how to interprete... "in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction".2Pet.3:16. Did you see that? First you have to be learned, you must have been taught the truth. Then you must be stable, you must have been tested and proven. Now where do you find the truth and who tests? 1Tim 3:15..... the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

When did the church change to Latin Mass? Both old and New order of Mass are still celebrated in the Church. Stop saying what you don't know, it is bearing false witness, God be with you.

luckyCO:
You are right because I believe the scripture too. He guided me out of the cadge of all unclean birds.

This scripture has kept me in the fold of Christ, a son of the: One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. Praise God!

luckyCO:
Ok, thanks for telling me how you want your post. Was doing that to tell you what am responding to.
However I found it difficult to respond to your all claims because of scrolling up/down so I might missed covering your some of your claims.

You are telling me facts but am telling you the truth,Christ is hiding himself in simplicity.
However, I don't see any link between Peter and Pope, in ministry or in character or in following Jesus or in scripture.

Who are you to correct the whole Catholic church? But we do know that if Christ were to come to catholic church now they will stoned him out(your priest said).

Am not changing your believe system because it not possible because this is what you have been told since you were born but am sharing with you line of thought hoping it will help you someday, 2years or 5years maybe.

You're telling me the truth right? Just look around you, look at the mess your personal truths have put Christendom. When Christ said obedience is better than sacrifice, He knows what he was saying. Not every Jewish believer agreed with the decision of the council in acts 15 about circumcision. Whoever does not agree was left on his own and regarded as teaching error, because the church has spoken and what she binds on earth is bound in Heaven. All your personal truths can wait, multi dimensional and constantly multiplying as they are, their author is not the Holy Spirit. It's lame for anyone to use that phrase "what you've been told since you were born" for me, when I have taken you round scripture on my own, opening your eyes to things you were blind to before now. It's typical of protestants when they have nothing else to say. It is left for you to tell yourself the truth, that you knew little or nothing about the Church's teachings, you should have sought for understanding and knowledge, before taking up the stones of condemnation. It's not my fault if you don't see any link, you've been busy seeking what you think is why they are not linked. I will implore you, if you've heard something new from me, if I have explained anything in a way you didn't know of before, then take out time to learn more, you'll surely be amazed. The gates of hell is ferocious against the church now, but the Church will not be defeated. It's a promise from Christ.

martooski:
I just reread this and was wandering why Apostle Paul did not add "and the Scriptures" did he forget or there where none available.

Hahaha, St. Paul knew exactly what he was saying. That's the ridiculousness of Sola Scriptura.

martooski:
HONESTLY YOU GUYS HAVE TRIED, BUT THOSE WHO HAVE EARS HAVE HEARD ALREADY. i SALUTE YOU COURAGE, BENEDICTUS AND THE OTHER FELLOW, LEARNT ALOT FROM THE COMMENTS SO FAR

God bless you. The sower only sows, he does not determine how it grows. In some soil it grows a hundred fold, in some it dies of thorns, while in some it is matched under foot. Matt.13:4

The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach his way. Psalm 25:9

luckyCO:
That is where the whole error comes in. If you say that interpretation of bible repose in your church to do what with?
The bible said hour is coming when the true worshipers will worship God in (catholic,Anglican, Pentecostal) No! in spirit and truth.
No more Jerusalem nor any mountain anywhere but in Christ Jesus.

Lol, Jesus wasn't stupid to establish a church. The apostles were not stupid to ensure they are together under one faith, one baptism. They were not insane to establish Churches under bishops and deacons and write them telling them to preach same things they have heard from them. Anything different is... anathema.

luckyCO:
If you say many and all are same then case closed.

1 John 2:2 "And He is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the world." Does this look like Jesus death excludes anyone?

I have only put scriptures in your face.

luckyCO:
Truly, anything outside catholic church means you have left the faith and you are being mis-lead. Those who bolted to error whill listen and hear you and follow your teaching. Catholic church used force but now bible is free, easy to read, so nobody can inform us improperly.

You are very right! what was decided at those councils compare it to what was decided at Nicaea councils and Vatican council, you will understand that very problem of the church started then. Noone has the monopoly of knowledge.


Yes I agree with you. I didn't physically see any hidden thing in the church by the knowledge God has given me.

The only thing that catholic keep secret is the revelation of whom Jesus Christ is and they don't want anybody to know it. Many people who tried to know it were driven out of the church and termed them heretics.

However, who will let us access to roman library such that we will know what went wrong through this history that reduced roman to formalized organized.


Most times I hear some people say church teaches this and that, I need to see fruit of those things, but you will not see.
I have gone through RCC catechism and taught it also but its discussion it is for another day, it is not good to talk about so many topics at time.

Jesus went Egypt to fulfill a scripture as you see in the cause of roman solder piecing the side of Jesus Christ.
Maybe allowing laymen to receive Holy communion on hands is to fulfill a scripture please do let us see the scripture it fulfills and case will be closed.

However, am calling your attention to the reason why we discuss, we discuss because you said peter is the head of universal church Christ is building and I said NO!

When you respond just try and write yours in paragraphs, rather than breaking up my posts, It is normally difficult for me to follow up when my posts are broken. You may as well number your points or itemize if you want.

The impression I get is that I am telling you facts and you are choosing to hold on to whatever you've been fed with. All the councils are same, it only held at different time, in different places, by different people and for different challenges. "By their fruits ye shall know them" says scripture, what Church can boast of her children over the years more than the Catholic Church, and just like in the days of the apostles, God continues to show his approval by Miracles. Her saints and their legacies adorn the earth like sweet aromatic flowers.

Hahaha, the truth is that Joseph and Mary ran to Egypt to hide God the son from a mere creature. If you know this and still have faith, you will see what some members of the church did at that time; and still have faith.

On Peter, I have told you the truth and you said No, it changes nothing at all, Jesus told the Jews that He is from Yawheh and they did not only say No, they killed him. Has that stopped it from being true?

martooski:
I HAVE BEING FOLLOWING THIS INTERESTING CONVERSATIONS. I THINK luckyCO has read so many bible passages upside down and downside up... he has however left behind the theology of the same scripture. this part is important for better understanding of t he scripture. One cant just open the bible and read and translate literally, we must also understand what is it that surround what the scripture and even the tradition of those it was written for.

The Bible is a collection of HOLY SCRIPTURE, it was not written at the same time unlike the HOLY QURAN which was a direct message thus it will seem clearer and straight. Am not an apostle that always use the BIBLE to check the imbalance of our world today, The church came before most of the scriptures where compiled. The tradition left us by the apostle was sufficient for early Christians until the advent of electronics ie. printer.

Viewing all the comments for and against Catholicism, it was obvious that the SCRIPTURE is the weapon of attack and defense, i want us all to examine the following verses of the HOLY BIBLE

John 21:25New International Version (NIV)
25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.[/b]

2 Thessalonians 2:15New American Standard Bible (NASB)
15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter [a]from us.[b]

2 Timothy 2:2King James Version (KJV)
2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.[b][/b]


with the above verses the apostles of Jesus never intended that we are to argue over what is in the scripture or not in it.. the message is always clear Repent from our sins and strive towards holiness.

The Catholic Church is the Church of Christ, i believe so are others... so why throw muds at ourself. i want to believe in another writing of Saint Mar k
49“Master, said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in Your name, and we tried to stop him, because he does not accompany us.” 50“Do not stop him,” Jesus replied, “for whoever is not against you is for you.”… and i believe when temptations like that comes our way we are to respond like OUR MERCIFUL FATHER.

The Church of Christ is HOLY, APOSTOLIC, and UNIVERSAL.

Thank you

I understand where you're going, however, Sola Scriptura chanters do not want to hear. Sometimes it's necessary to teach them that the Scripture is ours and the interpretation repose in the church. Many of them have never heard scripture clearly explained as they do from reading our posts here, that's the first time they hear authentic teachings as the church has taught over the years. So most times, I do not shy away from using scripture and confounding them.

luckyCO:
Am so sorry for my wrong spelling on the city's name Vatican. Am a fast typer also using my phone, you would see I do correct some wrong English typing later as I see them.

However, the Vatican there does not mean a city as in the two words above, it represents the organized dogmatic belief of Roman Catholic over a period of time using that city where pope lives as reference point.



The salvation is of Jews meaning that salvation came from Jews(who is a Jew? Rom 2:29, correct pointing). When you get to Jews you will know how salvation is of Jews pointing to the Jesus Christ, why not him say Salvation is from me? That is how he preach mostly to us gentiles because of what we are used to.

Another scripture said outside Christ there is not salvation pointing us to Christ who gave us Salvation.

But what Vatican is pointing us to is Rome Rome, Pope Pope before pointing us to Christ instead of Christ.
Why not say outside Christ there is not salvation instead of outside Roman catholic church though that scripture has already been there but the catholic refused to use it.

The Word of God has hit and wounded Vatican 1[b](Rev 13:3)[/b], so Vatican 2 is another strategy to bring back all Christians and non-Christians together. It will happen someday but before then rapture has taken place.

Check this scripture
Matthew 26:28, the bible says "For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many [/b]for the remission of sins.
But Catholic decided to use "For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for [b]All [/b]for the remission of sins.
Until we report and report and report( but some charismatic members quote scripture to support it vehemently) and later they organize another synod and change to Latin Mass(and their mouth was closed in shame) as if they dont know it exist, does that one mean enlightenment as you stipulate above?

That means what we are saying in a forum like this is not in vain.


[b]Check this event
We were told that blessed sacrament is Jesus himself under the appearance of bread and wine. So we are not allowed to touch it or go near it but to worship it and spend time with him in the chapel.
But when Ebola came,the same jesus was given to us by hand. Many Charismatic condemned vehemently, you need to hear priest going to the bible to defend that act, but today Ebola is gone, fear is gone, jesus has returned to the catholic church, praise be to God!

You can see that in everything thing, catholic church is a creation of parallel belief system which look like the of Gospel that came down from Israel or rather a covering of roman idols with the gospel that came down from Israel.

You know imitation looks very close to original, anyone who doesn't want original can settle for imitation.

In as much as i find it a bit difficult keeping this discuss in line because of your constant delving into things you know little about, I will try my best to simplify my explanations for the sake of anyone who genuinely wants to know, and that people may not be misled.

I decided to correct you on the name Vatican because that was the second time you were posting and used Vertican. I ignored the first as typo error, but when it came a second time with same spelling, I now had to make correction of an obvious wrong spelling. I have told you Vatican is a place, but you keep holding on to falsehood. Councils are named after the place they were held thus: Jerusalem council was held in Jerusalem,Council of Ephesus was held in Ephesus, Nicaea Councils 1&2 were held in Nicaea, Vatican councils 1&2 were held in Vatican. You may continue to hold on to what you like, I have already informed you.

It is my sincere advice to you not to start an argument or take a position based on the headlines you read from the media, try and read the contents, often time the contents aren't what the headlines suggest. I have tried to enlighten you on what it means "There is no salvation outside the Church" but you wouldn't listen. I have given you an example with "Salvation is of the Jews" in scriptures while same scriptures talked about the possible salvation of those who don't have the Law. The church has Catechism of the Catholic Church, have you gone through that book before? The church doesn't hide her teachings, it is there in print for all to read, that is why your sin is more than those who are illiterates; and only condemn the church based on what they hear others say. Here is what the Church teaches on the issue:

"Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it". CCC 846


You talk about the Ebola issue out of poor knowledge about God. The church Knows God very well, and the church has a duty towards her children of little faith as well...So if you were Joseph and Mary who ran with Jesus to Egypt because of ordinary Herod, Matt.2 you will start to doubt that Jesus is God. You see, despite your antagonisms the Church knows God more than you, I will leave it at that example alone. The world as a whole bear witness to the heroics of the Church's sons and daughters in spreading the good news to the ends of the earth, It is a mandate Christ gave her and she will continue to deliver till her groom appears.


Lest I forget, on the words of consecration whether "many" or "All", it means same. Christ died for all says St. Paul "And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again." 2Cor.5:15. Christ's death did not exclude anyone, the whole world was involved, it's all over scripture the use of many when all was meant. I do not want to make this post too long.

Paulopackager:
PLS LETS UNDERSTAND D SCRIPTURE. JAMES 2 WAS SPECIFICALLY TALKING MORE OF MANIFESTATION OF OUR BELIEF. I.E FAITH + WORKS = MANIFESTATION. READ V 15,16. WHAT DOES IT V 21 AND 22 ALSO SAYS? ABRAHAM WAS JUSTIFIED BY WORKS PLUS FAITH MADE HIM PERFECT IN GODS SIGHT. A PERFECT PERSON IS A SAINT AND WILL DEFINITELY BE SAVED IF HE CONTINUALLY WROUGHT THIS PROCESS. IT IS CORRECT TO SAY WE ARE SAVED BY GRACE BUT DONT FORGET ITS THE GRACE WEVE RECIEVED THAT BRINGS ABOUT FAITH I.E BRINGS ABOUT OUR BELIEVE IN CHRIST JESUS. WITHOUT CHRIST JESUS WE CANT ENJOY GRACE AND WE CANT BELIEVE. READ GAL 3. PRECISELY 3:8.

You keep saying "lets understand scripture", yet you're the one who clearly needs to learn. I pointed out something to you, it's completely scriptural, instead of acknowledging and changing your initial thoughts you go about writing many things and confusing yourself. You said am correct to say we're saved by grace (ofcourse its biblical), then it means you're wrong to say "we're saved by faith and not work" simple. St.James did not mince words, he was very clear about this thus: Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only....James 2:24. Faith is not a manifestation of belief as you try to claim, Faith is Belief. Rather faith and works could be said to be manifestations of Grace.

luckyCO:
Vertican 1,outside catholic church no salvation. Vertican 2,those not of catholic faith but still keep the faith can make heaven.
Out of abundance of heart the mouth speak.

I have told you not to go into things you have no knowledge of. You should at least learn the name of the city (i hope you know it is a place), It's Vatican and not Vertican as you keep writing. The teaching of the Church at both councils is still same "There is no salvation outside the Church". In Vatican II, the church sees the need to explain further the meaning of that affirmation, just like St. Paul did in scriptures...let me enlighten you a bit on one aspect of it, I hope you'll appreciate it.

Have you ever read John.4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Did you read that Salvation is of the Jews? You may ask:"what about those who worship what they know not, those who do not have the Law, how are they judged"? Now to answer that, long after Jesus had died, it became important that St. Paul treat the issue by explaining more, and this is what he wrote:
When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. Rom.2:14-16

Did you see how Paul gave more insight into the phrase? Note that this does not excuse the fact that whoever believes... is saved Jn.5:24, but whoever hears and don't believe is condemned already Jn.3:18. In same way the various councils throw more light on existing truths.

You, my friend, are no more in the category of those who haven't heard, You have listened to his words; harden not your heart.

luckyCO:
That is the main reason I said we will not agree because you still quote scripture I dont believe you know their meaning.

A single revelation you have about God personally can change your life forever and no devil can prevail against it.

When you said church is physical that is when I get problem with your ascertion because we are spirit being to gather and worship God spiritually that gathering spiritually is called church but gathering physically can be called rcc,Redeem,winers,chisen etc

The universal church has no visible head,we have only one spiritual head that is Jesus because our gathering is spiritual,christ apoint pastors to be overseers of their different local churches such that Holy Ghost minister to them and be will our General Overseer.

That is why peter,John and later paul upon higher knowledge God gave him still didnt preach different from peter,andrew,John etc since their knowledge is from same source.
But trace rome you have vertican 1,2 and 3 is coming out all varies by different popes.

The introduction all these claims are what they used bluff our head which made us think all manner of things about catholic that has no salvation virtue eg we are the first church,peter is first pope,Jesus cloth and cross is in rome,peters key is 7 sacrament etc but I dont see how these claims will give me salvation or make me love another believer!

When you say weakness I got confused,the person whose church is build upon must be perfect else the church will no longer be the foundation/pillar of truth.
God revealed to peter the truth,peter didnt know the truth,Christ gave him the key,peter didnt know where the key came from. Now you are saying that they key mean roman church is peters succession because you believe peter is carrying the church when he was about to die he carried the church to pope then as peter is prim minster during apostolic era so is pope now.

That ascertion is very very wrong.

Ah, dear friend, when you sacrifice "sound teaching" Titus.2:1 on the alter of "revelations" that is when you get all these contradictory teachings and pastor-preneurs. God is not and can never be the author of confusion. He has one fold Jn.17:21. God's whole truth is one, and His Church is the foundation of this truth. Do not ascribe these false and contradictory teachings everywhere today in Christendom as coming from God, you are wrong! The true Church jealously guards against contradictory teachings 2Cor.11:4, even St. Paul had the good mind to go and confirm his teachings as one with the apostles Gal.2:2.

You delve into things you don't know about when you talk of Vatican 1 and 2, these are councils held by the church. Just like Jerusalem Council in Acts 15 was held in Jerusalem, we have the Vatican councils held in Vatican; at different times, to handle pressing matters facing the Church. This continues to be one apostolic tradition that is visible to everyone. It doesn't contradict each other, it throws more light on things(as the holy spirit continues to reveal), and upholds earlier concluded ones. Stop listening to falsehood peddlers and rumor mongers.

Oh you're embarrassed by the weakness of peter, afraid that building the Church on him will make the church no longer a pillar of truth. That means you will try to hide Eph.5:24-27 "Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing... even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish". Truth is that, on her own; the church isn't perfect, but United with Christ, the Church shines forth in glory and holiness. Do not be astonished my friend, I will say to you in Christ's words "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible" Matt.19:26

These lies you've held on to is now making you quarrel with scriptures, forget these deceptions that have led you astray, retrace your steps and the truth shall set you free.

luckyCO:
The only reason we may not agree is because you quote so many things that has many different meaning as applied to what you are saying, this made me hold myself from diverting our discussion.

The meaning of a verse can be found in the preceding chapter or next of within, God allowed the bible to be compiled that way to sort out children of the Promise to that of the bond women.

When we were preparing for holy communion a story was put fort to us; one man each time he wants to go church he put one pebble into a container, after one year he went back and saw only one, which means he only went to church one time in that whole year.
The body of Christ is purely Spiritual, 1000 people(physical) may attend to a church but only very few attend with their spirit hence Christ, instructed us that God is looking for worshipers that will worship Him in Spirit and truth not truth and Spirit because you can never knew the truth without the Spirit of God hence gathering/convocation does not form the body of Christ the Church.

Only one sin brought down Adam/Even(He has Gods blessing physical) , then if the Church of Jesus Christ is built upon Peter(Has God's blessings physical- the church built upon him) dont you think that one sin can equally bring down the Church because peter was already down before he strengthened himself the church is gone like Adam/Eve?

The church was not built on Peter, it was the revelation that God gave peter the gates of hell cant prevail. It was that revelation assured him of the key to open the door of salvation and gospel was spread throughout the world, after that incidence foundation of our faith was lain by peter and other apostles, after apostolic ministry,came prophetic,evangelical,pastoral and teaching.
That is what we are enjoying now waiting for the return or Christ.

I wonder if you even understand where you're going with this. I have in very simple terms; and laced with scripture, tried to show you how the Church is both Physical and spiritual. You may continue in your error, mine is to lay the truth before you. Even in the face of obvious miracle of healing a man blind from birth, the Jews still chose to believe anything else but the truth. First they believed it wasn't the blind man, then they believed he wasn't blind, then they believed that God did it but via a sinner, they could take anything else but to attest that Jesus is of God Jn.9. You have missed your way, you need to retrace your steps back to your starting point, then you can start moving in the right direction which I have pointed out to you. Do not continue in that deception that the church is "All Join", the church is not that, for she has "One lord, one Faith, one Baptism" Eph.4:5.

You may have problem with Peter's weakness, but the God of the Church is the one who "choose the weak to confound the strong" 1Cor.1:27, do not forget that. He has promised the gate of hell will not overcome her, even as He is building it upon Peter as the visible leader. Over the years the gates of hell have really been ferocious, in the form of Roman persecutions, heretics and schismatics, protestantism, modernism, etc, without success. Jesus had said "no shaking" and I believe him, He will be with the Church till the end of time.

luckyCO:
Am not diverting the attention am only pointing to you the reason we are discussing, I dont discuss to argue or destroy someone, I discuss to share my line of thought. And we are gradually shifting ground the reason why we are discussing.

Now let me stick to the reason why we discuss

God has converted His blessings into spiritual dimension for safe keeping( Late Rev Fr Njoku Upper Room Ministry and I agree with him).
Since God has done that,it is imperative to look for the things of God from spiritual/revelational point of view.

Matt 16:17-18, I build my church on peter(Physical)
Eph 5:23, Christ is the Head of the Church(Spiritual).
Colosian 1:18 Christ is the Head of the body, the Church(spiritual).

The Church here has no physical address, has no physical headquarter, no physical head but everything here is purely spiritual such that devil wont spoil it again as he did in the Garden of Eden hence Christ our Last Adam(1 Cor 15:45).

If you check this with divine revelation you will understand first God does not keep his salvation in the physical temple or person since Christ came else devil would have destroyed it. More emphasis.

Take for instance in Gal 2:11-12, if the church is built upon peter, devil would have accused him and destroy the church again upon what Jesus has suffered.

Am not distorting your reasoning but sharing a line of thought should incase you might need it later.

I believe the church of Christ is already one(spiritual not physical as in name of church and all that), we have different Gospels in the land. I believe what these Gospels are doing is sorting children of promise to that of the bond woman.

However, how I know the true Gospel is; claim anything, believe anything,say anything but what you are saying,believing and claiming must lead me(the hearer) to Christ straight and help me look at his face and become more like him.

Like in most of what you've been saying, there are elements of truths in them, yet you apply these truths wrongly by not acknowledging other truths. So in using partial truths to reach a conclusion, you get to a faulty end.

The Church is both spiritual and Physical. The word "Church" in greek is ekklesia which means "convocation." It designates the assembly of those whom God's Word "convokes," i.e., gathers together to form the People of God, and who themselves, nourished with the Body of Christ, become the Body of Christ. The physical Church is called the body of Christ, and that's why St. Paul noted thus "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ" Eph.4:11-12. This physical Church is also described as the fold, members are described as the sheep, leaders are described as shepherds. Because there exists a physical fold, that's why there could be other sheep that are outside the fold Jn 10:16. It however was the intention of Christ that they may be one Jn.17:21. Christ while here called himself the good shepherd, then he expressly told Peter particularly in the presence of others, to feed his sheep, and strengthen his brethren John 21:15- 17, Lk.22:31-32. Three times did he call only him, three times did he repeat his mandate to only him, for the avoidance of doubt, yet its a pity its still been debated here.

In Matt.16:18, Jesus talked about the Kingdom, to which he made peter the Prime minister(Key as symbol). There must be order, organisation in the fold, that's why there was succession to the seat of Judas, that's why though Jesus never mentioned deacons and Bishops; the apostles installed them. That's why there was a council in Jerusalem. Disobedience to this structure is what led to this chaos in Christendom today, where one tells the congregation to eat grass, and another says those who observe Sunday as day of rest will go to hell. Believing the Church as spiritual only is self deceit, a mirage, to think that somewhat God authors all these contradictions from various pulpits is a pity.

It is good you pointed out that devil would attempt to destroy the church by accusing Peter, but have you forgotten that Jesus foretold that Peter as a person wasn't going to be perfect LK.22:31-32, but he assured him of his rise, and charged him to strengthen the rest brethren, to whom else was this mandate given? You talk about Gal.2:11-12, but didn't you see what now happened in Acts 15:7 ? Jesus already talked about these things, it shouldn't be a bother to you, just believe Him. What you should rather concern yourself is why it was important that Paul take his teachings back to the apostles for confirmation, "lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain". Gal.2:2

The Church exists which has it's origin from Christ. This church is one (I agree with you). She is holy, in the sense that it is the body of Christ, in her holiness she has produced holy men and women over the years and her teachings and acts continue to guide men and women towards holiness. This Church can trace its existence and authority back to the apostles. This church is universal in outreach. That's how to Identify this Church.

easymancfc:
Going around in circles again...
that was the beginning of the whole discussion with you...
Where in the Bible does it say Bible that Peter has to acknowledge himself as Pope for him to be Pope,

The name might not have been established but Peter clearly had a primacy in the early Church...

It's not easy my brother, that's how one could begin to imagine what Jesus felt like while dealing with the Jews.

luckyCO:
I leave you to magnify Peter beyond his place in the body of Christ.
Only know that Peter is magnified in the Roman Catholic Church to make it look as if Pope is peter's succession as to that whatever pope said God has said, that is what we are disputing.

Now he diverts attention. Did you, or whoever you're listening to, misrepresent scripture or not, as pointed out by me? You build your claim on false premise and hope it becomes true. Just see the way you conveniently used "little stone" for Peter in Matt.16:18, and used Rock for Christ in 1 Cor.10:4 . Yet both are same in Greek. Only the truth can set you free, know the truth, speak it always. I have shown you your error, now you've heard His words harden not your heart as at meribah.

If you agree that you were wrong in thinking that Peter means "little stone", then we can start to disabuse your mind from the false teachings that prevents you from knowing the whole truth with regards to succession.

Godskidk:
Syncan, blackbriar,
ojotask, Pureheart91, oaroloye,
LastMumu, zukachris, youngflamez,
missnawty, sholay2010, xtivin,
Wilgrea7, henrybomb, GoodBoi1,
Ogbulaba, Junia, Sabawaleklazik,
Temihatz, dalaman, mickool,
Bumidavis, Bethor, ipeg34yahooco,
themanderon, CatfishBilly, Reginleit, glyph, UltraLeslie1

Wetin I do you na, when una remove crucifix from schools you remember me? some bros de treat the matter here sha. https://www.nairaland.com/3725789/russia-moves-completely-ban-jehovahs#55314696

luckyCO:
As Jesus talked about temple, remember he was before the temple. But Christ body is the temple. You may ask, why did he not make this statement elsewhere until he wait till He got to that temple that is speaking about Him?
Same in the case of peter.

He called him peter meaning little stone.
He was referring to the knowledge(Matt 16:16-17) God has given peter about Him(Christ who is the Rock, 1 cor 10:4), it was that incident that necessitated that name peter. He has seen that peter has such a heart that can handle the keys and can open it freely without hindrance and God revealed it to the son by allowing the knowledge of whom he is. Not the type that will not go and will not leave the road.

hahahah, see how desperate you are in trying to twist facts by using "little stone" for aramaic kephas, which language translation is that? You used Rock for 1cor.10:4, yet that verse used petros in greek, which is where Peter is derived from as well. Note, both Matt.16:18 and 1cor10:4 are talking of rock, both in aramaic and greek. Don't try to diminish Peter by using "little stone", if Jesus wants to call him little stone, he would have used "evna".

When Jesus talked about his temple, did scripture not tell you what it meant? "but he spoke of the temple of his body" Jn.2:21. Where did it explain to you that he wasn't talking about Peter here? His whole speech is just one line of speech addressed to same person he started with, Simon he called Rock, on the rock Simon He will build his church, to Simon he will give the keys. This same Simon in Jn.21:17 he told "Feed my sheep". It isn't your business to speculate why He chose Simon, what you need to accept is that He chose Simon, and said those things to him. Shikena.

luckyCO:
We have two bible ref where Christ made two statements that got pharisees/people of this age confused.

Destroy this house in 3days I will build it up-Jews trapped but not all jews.

You peter,upon this rock I will build my church - gentiles trapped but not all gentiles.

Both statement he was not talking about what people think but by devine revelation He was speaking something else using what he was speaking about (what people can see) as a symbolic reference.

really? So when Jesus said that to the apostle, his name was peter (rock) abi. What then is the import of calling him "Rock", only to probably be distracted into talking about a physical rock elsewhere.

Ubenedictus:
... In the first case he is the Creator, in the second a creature. Himself unchanged, he took to himself our created nature in order to change it, and made us one man with himself, head and body. We pray then to him, through him, in him, and we speak along with him and he along with us...

Indeed God loves us much.

oladoja1:
OK let me ask u a question, those who followed kept Moses law to the full and died before the birth of Jesus what will happen to them

They had to wait till Christ came to meet them when He died, preach to them the Gospel (as the way) 1Pet.4:6, that they may have eternal Life Jn.5:25.

What do you say, they went to meet God in heaven before Christ came?

OLAADEGBU:
Carry on with your mariology, do not say we did not warn you of the consequences.

You've heard His words, harden not your heart like your fathers at Meribah.

OLAADEGBU:
We are saved by faith alone in Christ alone which is by grace. See Ephesians 2:8-9 for details.

Have I not told you before to study your scriptures well?

James 2:24-26

Do you see that a man is justified by means of works, and not by faith alone?

Similarly also, Rahab, the harlot, was she not justified by works, by receiving the messengers and sending them out through another way?

For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

doyinbaby:
It takes the grace of God for a catholic to give his life to Christ ,.....those Catholics and their church doctrines and traditions hen.....
.with God all things are possible

Do not be like the OP, for the apostle Jude already talked about such: Jude1:10 But these men certainly blaspheme against whatever they do not understand. And yet, whatever they, like mute animals, know from nature, in these things they are corrupted . btoks above already made this point calmly.

hurricaneChris:
Happy birthday to me

Happy birthday bro, many happy years ahead. May your lines fall for you in pleasant places. God bless you.

OLAADEGBU:
Way to go!

Lol, so Jesus didn't redeem her again, it was the Holy Spirit that sanctified her. Chai.

OLAADEGBU:
Read your Bible and get some wisdom.

You have listened to His word, harden not your heart like your fathers at meribah.