₦airaland Forum

omojeesu:
Go on with you religion. Your images, your rosaries, your purgatory, papacy, mariolatory, apparitions, etc, etc not found in the Bible you 'gave us'.

Good luck. Eternity awaits!

Jesus is Lord!

Hahahaha, this is very funny. Are you running from scriptures now?

Just remember the Ethiopian Eunuch, let him be an example to you. When Philip asked him "Do you understand what you read?", the eunuch responded humbly "How can I, except someone guides me" Acts 8.30-31. He was reading the book of Isaiah yet he needed guidance, you read and interpret in ignorance and dare to condemn another based on that. Not good brother, not good.

JMAN05:
nothing like knight in the bible. So i dont understand.

Amen.

Ontarget:
This is not about God contradicting himself. God didn't contradict himself. God is the one who made the laws, so the laws doesn't apply to him. The laws are made for us his subjects to follow. So God has the right to do anything even if it is contrary to the law he gave us.

This is exactly how fundamentalists reason, that's why they kill people in the name of God.

omojeesu:
(I)1 Timothy 3:15

But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

The 'house of God' = 'the church'

The 'church' (is) of (i. e. belongs to) THE LIVING GOD, WHO is the pillar and ground (foundation) of the truth.

God is the pillar and ground (base, basis) of the Truth.

Jesus says, He is '....the Truth'.
The Bible says, 'Thy word is Truth'.
It also says in John 3:33: He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that GOD is TRUE.

(II) Back up your assertion that the church is the pillar and foundation of the truth with other scriptures.

(III) You're yet to give me a Bible scripture justifying canonisation of saints.

(IV) I am a saint since I got born again.

(V) By your comment, you've proved me right that you guys place your religion, tradition and institution ABOVE THE WORD OF GOD, EVEN GOD (Because the Word of God is God).

The Church is the assembly of saints saved by grace with all their imperfections.

1. Ignorance isn't something you boast with,I am not here to teach you how to read English. Find out the use of coma in a sentence and read again that passage. You can actually remove "which is the church of the living God" and still have a complete sentence.... The pillar and foundation of truth is the Church, arguing over this doesn't do you good. But am not here to teach you how to read English.

2. Jesus Established the church himself and the gates of hell will never overcome it Matt.16:18, to the church he promised the Holy spirit which will lead her members "into all truth" Jn.16:12-13. Since you agree and wrote above that Jesus is the truth, Note now therefore that Jesus told the Church "He who listens to you listens to me, and he who rejects you rejects me" Luke 10:16 I could go on and on.

3. First, what do you understand by canonization of saints. Secondly, show me a single passage that says everything the church does must be found written in the bible (that the church compiled and canonized).

4. I do not doubt you at all. However words in English-and indeed many other languages- do often have more than one application. I am sure the word "Saint" does too. You can thank me for teaching you this.

5. In as much as this is a false accusation based on limited knowledge, you should go back and read the bible we gave you; for it is written thus Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. 2Thess.2:15

I have no problem with your definition of the church, but you must add this "who preach one gospel, profess one baptism, under one shepherd Eph.4:5, and traced to the apostles Matt.16:18.

Amberon:
You meant to say "bringing idolatry to many nations". Some of you were summoning the dead to pray for you eg Sts Jacinta and Francesco" and even angels Gabriel and Michael (not knowing you're above them). Jesus Christ is the ONLY mediator; not Mary, not your saints.

When Ignorance speaks, it's not difficult to recognize. The Gospel you wrest to your own destruction, the church preserved and preached it to your heathen fathers. The bible you misinterpret; the Church "Your Idolaters" compiled and told you it is God's word.

Ontarget:
If God decides it happens that way just like the ark of covenant you mentioned and also the burning bush when he called Moses. In other words, we cannot choose what represents God, but only God chooses what represents him. Any attempt to represent God with any object when he didn't say so becomes idolatry.

Do you see as you are making your own commandment different from God's? Where did God say in his Commandment "Except I tell you to", which other of the ten commandment did God contradict, as you now claim He contradicted His own commandment in the case of the ark and the the bronze serpent, hence He changes His laws. Note how you portray God as one that Changes his precepts, Our God's commandments are all of them sure, they stand firm for ever and ever Psalm 111:7-8. You are wresting scripture to your destruction, when you don't know something or you get confused, simply ask nicely and you'll receive knowledge.

Ontarget:
That's where you are getting it wrong. If Gods says a certain tree represents his presence and each time you come near the tree you should bow to it, that's a different situation and bowing to the tree is no more idolatry because God has STATED the tree represents him. But God NEVER stated the statues of Jesus and Mary represents him so bowing to the statues becomes idolatry.

So an image can represent the presence of God

vatiqan:
@ Op, pls you address the Pope as 'his holiness'. the title of ' eminence', is used for the cardinal. pls correct this error.

His post was on front page, I think he won't be able to modify it again.

Ontarget:
The fact that God used the ark to interface with his followers shouldn't mean he APPROVED idol worship. God can choose his own method of doing anything at anytime because he is in charge. Whatever instruction he gives is what must be followed excerpt whenever he mentions we should do it in a specific way even if it appears contrary to his earlier instruction like the case of the ark. In other words, God can do and undo. It's not confusion, it's called supreme authority.

So in order words you say that God can approve Idol worship sometimes if He wants...He changes His laws. I don't know why you just keep saying things without thinking.

All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal. Psalm 119:160

Ontarget:
The ark is a different matter because God approved its use and purpose. God was directly involved with matters concerning the ark. According to Exodus 25:22 God was said to have spoken with Moses "from between the two cherubim" on the Ark's cover.
Same cannot be said about the statues of Jesus and Mary that Catholics bow to. God has no business with those statues and you all use them to represent him without his consent.

You see, your problem is that you don't believe in the scriptures you quote. You claim that God is unchangeable according to scripture, but you believe he condemned making of Images and approves of them at the same time. Now you believe God approved "Idol" and its worship based on your definition. My God isn't confused, yours is. My God is not an author of confusion, if you want to understand what God meant by his words; ask nicely and you will be informed, else what you're doing to yourself is what Peter talked about in 2Pet.3:16: ...in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Ontarget:
Merriam-Webstar defined idol as a representation or symbol of an object of worship. The definition clearly shows Catholics engage in idolatry by having a representation of an object of worship and bowing to it. And besides, God instructed us not to make any image in the likeness of anything in heaven. So why do Catholics make images in the likeness of Jesus and Mary and bow to it? That's my position.

Now you have moved from idolatry to definition of idol, ok. I am yet to determine if you want to understand or if you are just here to scream the usual uninformed accusations. From your statement above you are accusing Joshua of Idolatry based on what happened in Joshua7:6 Then Joshua tore his clothes and fell facedown to the ground before the ark of the LORD, remaining there till evening.

Ontarget:
It seems you didn't understand me when I said: "You don't really have to take them as Gods".
You previously said idolatry is when you regard those images as a God. And my position is that you don't really need to take them as a God on its own entirely, but having an image representation of God, Jesus and Mary an bowing to them is also idolatry.

The bold is coming from your definition or what?

Ontarget:
So what is idolatry? Tell me since you know it.

Are you not the one accusing me of Idolatry? How come you accuse me of what you don't know. Go back to what I highlighted in your post and see your error.

Ontarget:
Click [url="https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/idol"]here[/url] and see the number 1 definition of the word IDOL regarding religion and then come back and tell me if using an object to represent God falls into idolatry or not.

Stop confusing yourself, just go back and read your own post again, I emboldened the portion for you when I quoted it. First be sure what Idolatory is and is not, then come back with your accusation.

omojeesu:
The problem with you is you don't know the Bible BY YOURSELF. You take what you are told and run with it. The Bible is not sufficient for you. What is more important to you are institutions, traditions and personalities who are mere men bereft of the Spirit of God.

You're a religionist. I'm not. For me the Bible is the inerrant word of God. The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Please, give me ONLY ONE SCRIPTURAL REFERENCE for canonisation of saints in the Bible. JUST ONE.

That is where your error lies. A book comprising of writings the Church gathered together after 300 years, and told you it contains inspired word of God, is now your foundation of truth, yet the book itself tells you that the Church instead is the pillar and foundation of truth 1 Tim 3:15. Aren't you ignorant?

Amberon:
Pained? Nah! I live by the truth and I say the truth whether anyone likes it or not.

Being catholic won't take anyone to heaven. Being a follower of christ can.

Catholics are followers of Christ, bringing Christ to many nations. Catholics are in heaven, Sts Jacinta and Francesco are the latest examples.

Ontarget:
But the Bible still says we should not make images with the likeness of anything in heaven. And besides, bowing to the images of Jesus and Mary is still idolatry. You don't necessarily have to take them as Gods before it can be established as idolatry.
It was God's direct instruction to make that serpent image. But God didn't instruct you to bow to images of Jesus and Mary.

After reading the one on bold I shook my head disgusted. If you don't know what idolatry is, how do you accuse people of committing it? "My pastor say" church goer.

omojeesu:
Once you're born again you're automatically a saint. The idea of making someone a saint is alien to the new testament church.

When did your church start; that you can now tell those who compiled the Bible what is alien or not to the new testament Church. Ignorance.

UjSizzle:
*sigh*

Not everyone is against the catholic church. I literally began my life in the church and have a deep respect for it. I'd rather attend mass than go to a pentecostal church for personal reasons. That's not to say I agree with all its doctrines, but I don't hate it either.
And please just because I dared to properly quote a scripture doesn't automatically make it a Us vs Them situation. You can at least stop thinking every non-catholic is out to fight the church.

I'm done with this very unnecessary conversation. You have a productive week ahead while I take my hypocrisy to those who understand what the word means

By now you should have known that I don't just speak, I say what I know. I don't want to be harsh on you, but I have to put you in line. Yes you can move along as you suggested, that would help. Thanks.

An2elect2:


(Matthew 7:13 KJV) Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Wasn't it you that bullied someone for just dropping scripture quotes on your thread the other day? Hypocrite!!! By their fruits ye shall know them.

xavieree:
I really liked the way you made your point....are you a seminarian?

Thanks. You can do more than am doing if you want, don't have to be a seminarian. Let's just say I am informed.

UjSizzle:
Okay. First of us, I haven't fought anyone here. All I did was add an extra verse someone claimed to be nonexistent.
It's funny you assume I'm not catholic because I'm not here brandishing my sword and fighting off Pentecostals.

P.S. You shouldn't jump into conversations whose origins you can't be bothered to trace. Because if you had bothered reading back, you'd know I was only telling someone his argument wasn't exactly factual.

Now who's the hypocrite?

I have been on nairaland section long enough to know you're not a Catholic, though anyone reading your posts can detect that already. You're Anglican so there's no assumption here, but that's not what we're talking about. I know exactly where you came into the fray, and what was going on before you jumped in. Take a bit of your own medicine and stop being hypocritical.

UjSizzle:
And this is your justification for all the denominational wars?
Has any of these churches who are supposedly protestants preached anything that contradicts what the bible says?
When one church does so, do you lash out against that church or is the default mode yet again Catholics vs Protestants?

I'm tires abeg.

Stop acting all Innocent. This is a thread talking about an activity of the Catholic church, I wasn't the one that ran in here talking about "You shall not bow down to them or serve them...", only to turn around and claim not liking arguments. It was you, and that's hypocrisy. Tell yourself the truth, how many Catholics go into threads accusing Non Catholics of this or that? If you want to stop the war against Catholics, which you call denominational wars, then leave Catholics alone.

UjSizzle:
It's unnecessary arguments like this that makes me weep for the church. When Christ prayed for unity among the saints in John 17, I'm certain he did not intend for it to become a denominational battle.

You all need to let go of denominational Christianity. Stop boasting about your doctrines and church and centuries old traditions, and start boasting about Christ himself and his finished work.

Y'all are exhausting. I don't even know how many of the people arguing here are yet to detach themselves from their parent's apron and know God for themselves. When you do, then you'll stop making blanket statements like "I'm a [insert denomination] till I die." You will genuinely begin to understand what the apostle was talking about in Romans 8:28-30 and Christ in John15:16.

Stop glorifying your denomination above God. It's an ignorant and stupid act.

When you're convinced about what you're doing, You can boast about it. When the early Christians preached against heretics, they boasted about the Church's teaching and about dying as members of the Church. You should be concerned about being in the fold, lest the wolves get hold of you. St Paul in Gal.2:2 was concerned such that he had to take what he was preaching to Peter and the other apostles, "lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vaint". You should be worried.

An2elect2:
Did you say you are 1.2 billion? That should scare every thing in you because the majority are always on the road to destruction.

(Matthew 7:13 KJV) Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Don't worry about that, in the earlier centuries, even before we compiled the bible, our ratio to heretics was a lot more than what it is today to protestants.

JMAN05:
Syncan, I don't understand why someone had to die before ur church will declare him saint. Why?

Just think of the way someone had to be knighted before you use Sir for him, while Sir is still a respectful form of address used for men. If you can understand this example, it will be clear to you.

free2ryhme:
you seems to be the one with the problem

if you can't show us where we said what you accuse us of, then...

free2ryhme:
John 14New International Version (NIV)

Jesus Comforts His Disciples
14 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God[a]; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”

Jesus the Way to the Father
5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know[b] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit
15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

22 Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”

23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

28 “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29 I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe. 30 I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold over me, 31 but he comes so that the world may learn that I love the Father and do exactly what my Father has commanded me.

“Come now; let us leave.

I can copy and paste scripture passages, but they need to be relevant to the question I am answering or to a point I want to make.

free2ryhme:
John 14:6 New International Version (NIV)


Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Do you have a comprehension problem? Read my question slowly again.

Andrewkinggg:
Reading the comments from my fellow Catholics I've never been this proud of been a Catholic.
A true Catholic is always and forever a Catholic. Anyone who leaves the Catholic Church for whatever reason was never imbided and faithful to the Catholic faith. I've been blessed been a Catholic and I'm proud of seeing other Catholics and how succesful they are. It's no doubt God is blessing us...

Remain blessed.

free2ryhme:
i dont need to research all i need is to read my bible...


Tell me where it is written that we must go through men to get to God

Just show us a place where we say that you must go through men to get to Jesus. If you can't find this, then why are you turning yourself to an accuser of the brethren Rev.12:10, why doing the work of the devil.

AheadMarket:
It means that when Jesus was on earth, heaven is empty. Satan would have taken over the control of things, right?

Our God transcends time and Space. Yours may be limited by space, that's why you won't understand us.