₦airaland Forum

SalC:
You wan bring Santa for us?

See ajebutter, na Fada kristimas me and Ubenedictus sabi o

This advent, "Fada Kristimas" will be here on this thread; most likely everyday till the D day...watch out!


Good morning brethren, a splendid day ahead to all.

Hisduchess:
am happy to be here. praise be to Jesus! now forevere more.good morning people

You're welcome amidst the brethren.

"...We may well admire in this the admirable wisdom of the Providence of God, who, ever bringing good out of evil, has from time to time suffered the faith and piety of men to grow weak, and allowed Catholic truth to be attacked by false doctrines, but always with the result that truth has afterwards shone out with greater splendor, and that men's faith, aroused from its lethargy, has shown itself more vigorous than before...."

Written in 1925, but just as much a word of encouragement and hope; as it is in these times.

Ubenedictus:
let me drop this one here, it is quas primas the encyclical the inaugurated Christ the king. it talks about the kingship of Christ in the world.

read at ur pleasure.


http://w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_11121925_quas-primas.html

Solemn. The shepherd speaks.

Good morning, a splendid day ahead to all

SalC:
Kamsified and Bluerange I pray whatever is keeping you away spare you sometime to say hi here.

I really miss this active home.

Yeah, and the rest guys too.

A splendid day ahead to all

SalC:
Good to hear from you once again bro.

Most beloved. Hope you're doing good.

Responsorial Psalm PS 105:2-3, 36-37, 42-43

R. Remember the marvels the Lord has done!

Sing to him, sing his praise,
proclaim all his wondrous deeds.
Glory in his holy name;
rejoice, O hearts that seek the LORD!

R. Remember the marvels the Lord has done!

Then he struck every first born throughout their land,
the first fruits of all their manhood.
And he led them forth laden with silver and gold,
with not a weakling among their tribes.

R. Remember the marvels the Lord has done!

For he remembered his holy word
to his servant Abraham.
And he led forth his people with joy;
with shouts of joy, his chosen ones.

R. Remember the marvels the Lord has done!


Ekwueme Ekwueme!
You are the Living God O! Eze, No one like you .
Ekwueme ! Ekwueme !! Ekwueme ! Ekwueme !!
You are the Living God O! Eze, No one like you....

Why is it that I cannot stop listening to the above song this morning, it has played repeatedly and i still cant get enough of it. Oh,the power of our God is awesome, yet God's people are not to be afraid of him, for our God is a loving father. It's actually a marvel, a boost of confidence and pride when a child of God reflects on His greatness, for scripture is filled with great deeds done by this magnificent Creator in preserving His own from harm.

Oke Chi e Nnukwu Chi,
Oke Chi o Nnukwu Chi,
Nani gi bu ome o kachie,
Nani ihe ikwuru bu ihe ina eme....

A splendid day ahead to everyone who pass through here, may the glory of our God go with you today.

Oke mmiri nke n' ebu ogwe
Ebighebi eligwe ,
Oke nmanwu n’eti onwe ya obata ulo adi mma....

An Interesting school...following.

PastorAIO:
In fact it is obvious from reading the bible that the letters of Paul were already creating such a problem for the Jerusalem based church that not only does the letter of James tackle it, but also the letters of Peter.

just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. 16He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17Therefore, beloved, since you already know these things, be on your guard not to be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure standing.…

Correct. The Church however sees that Peter called him "beloved brother" and did not condemn him, rather acclaimed that his teachings were being misinterpreted albeit by "ignorant and unstable" folks. It's most certain that the first impression you get from reading Paul isn't exactly all he was saying, he probably assumes a base knowledge for his readers, a knowledge he probably had passed on while preaching orally.

jnrbayano:
Paul sighted Abraham's early stage in his walk with God.

James sighted Abraham's later stage (after sacrificing Isaac)

Two different period in Abraham's life. James is complementary to Paul and never a contradiction.

Paul=Faith alone saves (coming from an impure state and doesn't require "works of the law" )

James= The faith that saves is not alone (it requires the "work of faith" to validate the presence of such saving faith)

They both talked about same faith but different works.

He is right in what he is portraying, your position isn't easy to support convincingly using bible alone, more passages could be thrown up from Paul, seemingly championing "faith alone", yet James completely destroyed that line of thought. That's the flaw in the claim that we use bible to interpret bible. Your Position is true only in the eye of faith in the infallibility of the Church, which has declared both Paul and James writings as inspired. Trusting in her wisdom, we search for the reason why she ignored such a seeming contradiction. That's when propositions like yours surfaces, and looking through the eye of the church at other scripture passages and oral traditions, are acceptable to the faithful.

It's obvious that certain People feel Jesus was wrong in stopping the Adulterer from being stoned and telling her "Neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more". They feel Jesus was condoning Adultery. . These people accuse you of condoning fornication because you allowed a pregnant lady marry who impregnated her in the Church. Yet these people have not told me how they want to stop couples who use contraceptives or even aborted their pregnancy from having same marriage.

701ecilana:
You Like banter too much. What is your own take?

Is the bold really for me?

The Church teaches her children to flee all forms of iniquities, but rather walk in the light of Christ 1Jn.1:7. However the Church does not deceive herself that her children will never fall in one way or the other, and at one time or the other...If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us... That's why the church teaches that when you fall, you shouldn't pretend as if you did not sin, rather "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.… 1Jn.1:8-9.

With these in mind,In the Catholic Church, when two people decide to stop committing fornication between them, the church welcomes them. (Note that by the very act of fornication the couple separate themselves from God and from the community)The church then guides them through the process of reconciliation with God, this may include counseling, contrition and confession. It doesn't matter if the lady is pregnant or not, for pregnancy in itself is not a sin, as children are a gift from God Psalm 127:3. When these two get married, they never commit fornication again between them. Isn't that what Christ wants? The earlier the church reconcile them to Christ; and removes occasion of same sin from them, the better.

The church draws no power anywhere from scripture or oral tradition to deny them marriage on the basis of fornication. It amusing when we run to our traditional belief or acts to justify a christian position. Like when you say that your father will not give you out in marriage pregnant, to same man who impregnated you. Will he give you out in that condition to another man? Anyway, what if the father of those that approached the church gave them out freely, will it make a difference to you? Frankly speaking, I agree with most things TheUmbra has posted in this thread, I shake my head at the hypocrisy being propagated by those against his post. How does the church determine a "fornicator", and why is it when the "fornicators" wants to stop and approaches the church for marriage that the church is to turn her back on them, rather than lead him to reconciliation. Even then, why is the punishment only for those who most likely didn't add the sin of using contraception, nor the sin of abortion.

701ecilana:
Deut 22:28 is a case of rape sir.
The Op says, a pregnant girl comes up to be wedded and not a man who rapes a girl and decides to marry her afterwards. As in the case of Scheme and Dina the daughter of Jacob.

Am totally against formication and you guys are trying to twists scriptures to justify it.

Wow! So Exodus 22:16 is rape as well right? Pls be truthful and fair to us, non has justified fornication yet.

Note that the acts of the sons of Jacob was not encouraged by scripture, as a matter of fact, they acted deceitfully and Jacob did not approve of it. God knew about this incident before the instructions of Deut.22:28, don't you think so? It's difficult to imagine that your quarrel is with the female while the man goes Scot free. You will agree that they marry in the case of rape, where a man committed both fornication and rape against the will of a woman, but you will not agree they marry in the other circumstance, because the woman gave her consent to fornication. I do wonder indeed if am reading from a pharisee of Jesus's time.

701ecilana:
Which enlightening is higher than the Holy Spirit? What are you talking about?

My view on this is based on what the Holy Spirit says about marriage in the Bible because He created marriage.
Anyways, let's hear you.
Analice here.

Have you considered that Theumbra has been backing up his position with scriptures? Why do you take his view as not what the Holy Spirit says about marriage. I don't want to write many things at a time.

Two Passages are very obvious on this, they are yet to be dealt with, neither by you nor the Jehova witness Jman05. These passages are :


And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife. Ex.22:16

If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days. Deut. 22:28-29

These places dealt most closely with what we have on ground, tell us why the church needs to go directly contrary to this scripture, by denying marriage instead of encouraging marriage in this instance.

analice107:
Bros, fornication which results in pregnancy is a terrible sin before God, and he admits to that, but if he sees it to be okay to bring in a pregnant lady to wed, that's fine by him, but going the Bible i still read, if that will be condoned, am not sure the issue of fornication in the church will be an issue we are warned to stay away from.


We have the holy spirit to ask what we don't understand. My tradition, Now, local tradition o, do not marry off a pregnant lady.

Except it's not noticed, but if it is, no one will even accept the invitation for that gathering. When the Child is born, the Couple can come for blessing, but not before.

If my tradition sees it as a taboo to give out a pregnant woman as wife, why shd i down peddle on it when i have seen it drummed at as sin before God?.

I said before, that a woman who commits fornication gets pregnant and has the affront to come to Church and demand to be wed, is like a woman who claims she has given her life to Christ, but still turns to eat from the temples or alters of idols, that not being enough, she brings some food sacrificed to idols to Church and demands that the pastor partakes from it.

The union between a man and a woman in the physical realm is the same with our union with God in the spiritual realm. The Bible calls the Church (whom we are, not any building) the bride of Christ, and he 'Christ', the bride groom. when we commit this sin we ought to be divorced according to the Master himself

Wen we go outside of marriage, it's a grave sin, little wonder Jesus permits that only under this circumstance can a marriage break and a divorce given.

Can you not see how deep formication runs? It's not enough that a believer committed this sin, but still brought in her pregnancy and demanded to be wedded. She shd come for marriage blessing instead. She has broken the foundation.

Hmm...I may have something to say, but firstly, If I may ask Sis, are you open to having a contrary view on a religious subject, based on more exposition or higher enlightenment, or is your view on religious matters a full and final one from the Holy spirit, without the possibility of change?

analice107:
No. but i just decided to leave it at that.

Is this the right thing to do? Considering that someone needed your input, yet now you leave me to what you see as error.

analice107:
Okay then.

Does this mean you've changed your stand on this, and now agrees with him?

God bless you too.

TheUmbra:
The OP is right! There's no biblical backing restricting two consenting people (man and woman) from getting married if the woman is pregnant for him.

In fact I put forward the closest scripture regarding this as follows:

"Suppose a man has intercourse with a young woman who is a virgin but is not engaged to be married, if they are discovered, he must pay her father fifty pieces of silver. Then he must marry her, and he may never divorce her as long as he lives". Deut 22:28-29

Man has always overstepped his bounds and authority and pastors and priests of today are no exception.

Analice107, if you won't mind, what's your take on this post?

kilisi:
Can you please give a biblical proof to support your first point that that Abraham's blossom was not God's dwelling place?

For the second part, yes Elijah probably didn't ascend into the heavens. There is another place that shows that he sent a letter to a king in Israel after that ascension to heaven. In all probability, Elijah was concealed from Elisha's face by the clouds and taken to another part of the earth. This can only be the logical conclusion when you consider this incidence with other Bible verses. Mention me tomorrow and I'll provide those verses I have in mind.
Good night.

It wasn't God's dwelling place because Jesus said it wasn't.

No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven Jn.3:13. Do you believe Jesus?

malvisguy212:
that is why I ask you, what is James understanding of work In that verse ? I wanted to know your view on that verse.

.

Bros, not true. You had your opinion on my belief on that verse, then you sought to prove me wrong. You specifically asked me if I think work grants salvation. If you didn't have your false opinion about my belief, you wouldn't have been arguing against your self.

malvisguy212:
don't be to proud, crush your pride and learn. I repeat, James wasn't condemning their faith, he was correcting their mistake. the error James correct is work is unnecessary when a person is save. James wrote how a believer can show, his faith is genuine ( justification or vindication before men) . James perspectives , he was viewing the believer who needed to demonstrate that his faith was real.

I think this will be my last respond to you unless you say something meaningful. if I did not response to you, it mean what you wrote does not make sense. thank you.

Ba ba black sheep, have you any wool? Yes sir, yes sir, three bags full....

malvisguy212:
are the Jews unsaved ? see brother, you think you know what you are saying ? I wept for you. James wasn't saying their faith is dead, no, James is saying their faith is dead without work. are you a Christian ? can you show me the evidence, you're a Christian ? not by going to church, is by showing your good work, now this simply mean you are proven the evidence of your faith. this is the work that will not earn you salvation.

The below is my first post which you attacked, take a look at it and look at what I made bold in your post, tell me again what you've been ranting about:

Syncan:
This is not true, please stop saying it. The catholic church believes that faith has to go with good work, for faith without work is dead. James. 2:26

malvisguy212:
@ Syncan you cannot address the hearthen as "dead faith" because faith was not their In the first place . when you address someone like this " your faith is dead without work" it means you are telling him to show the evidence of his faith. you are not condemning his faith. James wasn't condemning their faith , he was correcting their mistake.

So you won't take my advice to keep quiet and learn? Folks are already laughing at you, and am feeling ashamed on your behalf.

malvisguy212:
are the Jews unsaved ? see brother, you think you know what you are saying ? I wept for you. James wasn't saying their faith is dead, no, James is saying their faith is dead without work. are you a Christian ? can you show me the evidence, you're a Christian ? not by going to church, is by showing your good work, now this simply mean you are proven the evidence of your faith. this is the work that will not earn you salvation.

So despite all I wrote above, with scripture references, you still ask the bold. You wept for me? hahaha. Continue going back and front arguing against yourself, the book of James will still be there to Pierce your soul until truth set you free.

malvisguy212:
nice talking to you, bye.....for your information, the Jews are God chosen Nation, so they are the save, for God cannot chose the unsave.

Imagine! I don't believe what am seeing here. So all you know is just to argue aimlessly, no substance in you at all. The Jews are saved right? As if Nicodemus was not a Jew, yet was told he must be born of water and spirit. Jn.3:5. As if Peter was not talking to the Jews when he said, "...Repent and be baptized...save yourself from this generation" Acts.2:38-40. As if it wasn't to the Jews that the preaching of Jesus crucified was a stumbling block. 1Cor.1:23..

I'll rather you keep quiet and learn, ask questions where you don't understand, for clarity sake and not to seek to confound another, doing so; you will grow by God's grace.

malvisguy212:
listen very carefully, James was addressing the Jews (save) they believe good works is the means of salvation, the truth is that good work is the result of salvation, and this good work has already been done by Christ. Titus 3:8 indicate that a man does good work because he is save.

good work are not something a person must do to be save, here what Paul say In Romans:
"But to him that WORKETH NOT, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Rom. 4:5).

notice here, the man does NOT work at all, he is only resting on the work of another ( Jesus). so what is the result of this man faith ? his faith was counted for righteousness.

if you Insisted on this argument, ask your priest this question, What is the result of salvation ? if his answer point to human effort , then he is standing on a sandy soil. but if his answer point to the work of Christ, then he is standing on a SOLID ground.

Just look at how you're deceiving yourself. First James was addressing the Saved, now he is addressing the Jews, and just to show your confusion; you had to put (save) close to Jews. Is it now the Jews that are saved or the believers? All you wrote above is like you're teaching James, the man said, show me your faith without works and I will prove to you that I have the living faith by showing you my works. You keep having your warped opinion about Catholic belief and start arguing against your imagined thoughts. You don't mind contradicting scripture (James) just to prove what you think I believe wrong. Smh. All you need is check Ubenedictus earlier post in this thread and note the importance of grace in our salvation. If you are still not clear, you can draw my attention. Meanwhile:

Do you see that a man is justified by means of works, and not by faith alone?. James.2:24

Ubenedictus:
if I remember correctly. It was an Iraqi delegation comprising of both a suni Muslim leader, a Shia Muslim leader a representative of the Iraqi religion ministry and a christian patriarch. They came to invite the Pope to their country as an emissary of peace.

They gave him a book that looked like a binder, it had intricate design but surprisingly the title koran was not there, the patriarch later gave an interview where he intimated that the book they gave the Pope was a koran. The Pope actually kissed the book.


It is important to note that in the middle east a gift is considered a reflection of the giver and it is customary to kiss it as a sign of respect, though it is less so in Iraqi culture.

Thanks for the explanation.

Ubenedictus:
He hehe so you added a picture of the old Pope with a bent back and claim he was bowing to the Koran. Come on you can do better the guy was old his back is naturally bent he isn't bowing.


There is a even more interesting picture where Pope John Paul kissed a Koran Given by a Muslim delegation. I thought you will post that one instead you have an old Pope holding a Koran an you claim he is bowing.

Is that even a Koran? Pope is a christian, Patriarch Raphael 1 is a christian, how come it's a koran in their midst, according to the caption.

malele:
Go and read wikipede and check this thing u wrote is true

He is right. Have you read Wikipedia? William Tyndale died in 1536, but earlier; the following had happened:

"With the Acts of Supremacy in 1534, Parliament also recognised the King's status as head of the church in England and, with the Act in Restraint of Appeals in 1532, abolished the right of appeal to Rome."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_VIII_of_England

malvisguy212:
alright, what is James understanding of work in this context ? James audience is the save, James is telling the save that their faith is dead without work, work in this context is the evidence of a saving faith, this is the kind of work that will NOT earn you salvation, this work only prove you are a true Christian.

The question you've avoided to answer is: those audience James was talking to who say they have faith, but which is called "dead faith" according to James, do they earn salvation too?

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. James 2:19

malvisguy212:
if I may ask, what is work in this context ? I mean, can good work in this context earn you salvation ?

Bros, do you understand that I just quoted scripture? James actually What you should rather ask yourself is: "according to James, Can a dead faith earn you salvation?"


Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works James 2:18