₦airaland Forum

SirWere:
I'm tempted to gate-crash this....

Lol, no one is above temptation.

FreeSpirited:
I acknowledged you though....I liked your post
U be strong pastor

Hahahaha, now you're tempting me like that man did Jesus, Only Jesus is strong, the solid rock. Only Him pastors the sheep.

Thanks, God bless you.

sabinews:
I attend a small military catholic church close to Yaba. Last Sunday I bowed my head out of church before church closed, I felt ashamed. As a Catholic I was raised to sit my butt down no matter what, until the priest gives the final blessing.
Missing ‘the mass is ended let us go in peace’ is akin to not attending church at all but I left way before that. I left after offertory. We had not even done communion. Catholics understand this.

We started at about 7am, the mass was scheduled to close by 9am, but it was 9am and we were still sitting,clapping hands over ‘chief ABC’s, Ten Thousand Naira’. This was the unveiling of the harvest theme for the year. I understand that the church has to raise funds but why are we staying 3-4 hours in church because of funds? Did they extend time for mass because of praise worship or because of the sermon? No. It’s always because of some other frivolities.

That is still not why I left though; I left because of the announcers and the priest. I couldn’t even believe what my ears heard.
‘N20,000! From N20,000 and above, come out here. If you know the lord has blessed you, come and give back to him, Chief this, Daddy that, come out, the lord knows your income. Are you going to give to God what has cost you nothing?’
‘N10,000 to N19,900, if you are looking for husband, or wife, come out now, the Lord will hear your prayers.’
N5,000 to N9,500… if you are looking for a good job, good husband and wife, come out and donate.’

Since when did we start selling blessings? When did all these start in the Catholic Church? The sermon was based on giving. If you have preached why not allow God direct people to donate? What is all the coercing and mind blackmail for?Once I went to a church program when the priest said everyone should bring everything in their purses, bags, pockets, ‘if you don’t bring everything the Lord is seeing you.’

I was already irritated before the ‘theme unveiling’ began. The person that was supposed to announce, instead of him to do his job and go, he started by informing the church that he has never been to the hospital. ‘ I have never paid hospital bills, me and my family, when we fall sick, small panadol and we are fine, the lord has been good to us.’
Yes sir, because those who fall sick, the lord hates them and is not good to them. He continued, ‘I saw a man during the week, his face was scattered, like acid was poured on it, and I said to myself is this not a human being? And I thanked God for my life.’ The congregation hummed their yes, some people lifted their hands towards the ceiling, giving thanks too.

This is what we are now? People who rejoice over the misfortune of another person? Why is it we only remember to thank God for our lives when bad things happen to other people? I remember when that petrol tanker fell at Iyana Ipaja. Houses and shops were burnt down. Someone whose house was along the line of the fire but the fire stopped few feet before his own went about rejoicing, he called people to thank God with him and the people who went about saying, ‘our God is faithful, our God is faithful, God of *insert church* is too good to us.’

We make God out to be an unfair father. Punish A, save B. when we know we are all sinners because as 2face sang; nobody holy pass.
So, that Sunday it was already 9am. The priest and all those in charge of the harvest were not done and didn’t look like they had plans to hurry up.They continued, ‘if you are looking for a good job, husband, wife, children, whatever you are looking for, N5000 and above come out now.’ I had brought a non-Catholic friend with me to church that day. I was ashamed and that was the breaking point for me. I gathered my bulletin and purse and went home with guilt trailing me.

P.S I learnt a new prayer point from the MFM near my house: Holy Ghost fire, roar at my enemies, Roar! Roar!! Roar!!!

http://www.sabinews.com/catholic-church-nonsense-start-lucia-edafioka/

Before I go to the issue you raised, you mentioned that's where you attend Mass which holds every Sunday (and daily for some), You didn't say that in most other Sundays in same church, these things don't happen. It was good though that you stated that there was a special function.

Now on the issue. In as much as we all like to criticize such over reaching tendencies in the church, if you are made the harvest committee head of that church, you'll most likely do or allow worse. Sometimes priests are criticized by the laity of impeding church progress, because the priest tries to stop them from reproducing fund raising schemes copied from modern religious groups. Agreed, some priests are already carried away in that bandwagon, but such has been there even from the earliest days of Christianity. Even the apostles were tempted with money for power in scripture. If in the presence of Jesus, money could bring down their treasurer, Judas Ischariot, why then are we so scandalized when it appears to bring down men of God now.

You left the church for home, I guess you only have 2hrs for Mass in a week of 148hrs, while you went home for more important things, and in a place that is scandal free. Despite your upbringing which taught you otherwise, You couldn't stand others been glorified, though wrongly, for more than two hours, yet you had gone to worship the one who hung on the cross for you for 3hrs after being whipped and tortured for hours.


You pointed out quite a good number of odd practices, and I hope you have submitted your petition or observation to your parish priest, or at least have a chat with him on it. If not, then what you are doing is called gossiping, you may need to read about Miriam and Moses in Scripture. Num.12:10

Generally the trend in modern religious groups or denominations are taking its toll on the Catholic church, people want to practice what they see elsewhere not minding it's spiritual implications. It is left for us to continue to check against excesses, but via the right channels. I don't see NL as one of those channels though.

Patheos:
This thread really needs to be addressed! @italo @syncan @SalC

Thank you for calling my attention to this.

Paulopackager:
WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE ARE SAVED BY FAITH AND NOT BY WORKS. BEING RIGHTEOUS IS NOT BY TRYING YOUR BEST NOT TO LIE OR STEAL BUT BY A CONTINUAL BELIEF IN OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST PLUS WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.

We are saved by grace. Your faith without good works is dead James 2:14-26

FreeSpirited:
think about these bibke passages:

All things are possible for those that believe.

Be perfect as your father in heaven is perfect , then we have......

Our righteousness is but a filthy sackcloth, we also have

Call me not a good one for no body is a good person except mg father in heaven....

All these contradicting passages are found in the bible......How can you make me understand I am still meant to be perfect.

First, I saw what you wrote in the opening post seeking clarification, and I did my best to enlighten you, yet not even as much as an acknowledgment from you, ok o.

On the matter you just raised, phrases and clauses are not picked out from scripture arbitrarily. The context of such speeches are taking into consideration, and that's the problem of personal interpretation of scriptures.

In the quote about righteousness being like filty rags, taken from Isaiah 64:6, you need to study verse 5 first and see that Isaiah said something like "we have all sinned, gone astray..." So for such who have gone astray and does not keep God's ordinance, what such consider as righteous cannot be perfect.


on the matter of good teachers...Note that Jesus was teaching something there. First that God is the supreme good, and united in God only can man be good. It was a temptation from the ruler and Jesus didn't fall for pride. That you may understand this , recall that Jesus said himself" I am the good Shepherd".

Be perfect, for your heavenly father is perfect. This is a clear admonission from Jesus. A Christian can reach perfection, but in union with God,thats you supplying your effort, and God supplying His Grace. Christ death and resurrection has merited you that grace. With God nothing is impossible.

OLAADEGBU:
Sarcasm in the classroom?

Ofcourse dear, that's where it's taught, for those who attended good schools.

OLAADEGBU:
The wise men only worshipped Jesus as a king they were not aware of His divinity.

So after one month of consultations, this is the best you could come up with. This is terribly low for someone like you.

It was very clear that the Magi knew exactly who they sought after, as a matter of fact, they instructed Herod so well about the person, that Herod went " And gathering together all the leaders of the priests, and the scribes of the people, he consulted with them as to where the Christ would be born. Matt.2:4.

Did you see it, Herod specifically asked for where "the Christ" will be born. The Christ was the Messiah, the annointed, the one Isaiah called the mighty God. The Magi knew exactly who they sought. That's why they came prepared with gold for the king of kings, Frankincense for the eternal priest, and Myrrh for his crucified body. Please show me where you got this lie you posted above from.

yemmit90:
Humans are not capable to be parfect.

Jesus: Be perfect, for your heavenly father is perfect Matt.5:48.

Yemmit90: Humans are not capable to be perfect.

Me: I believe Jesus, for with God all things are possible.

FreeSpirited:
I realise the title 'saint' is assigned to a few people in some christian sect. I have no idea how they came about such title. Does being a saint means the person is totally flawless and without any sin? What's the justification? Is it biblical? Considering the fact that Jesus rebuked those who once called him 'a good person' , by saying no one is good except his father in heaven. What are the yardsticks that qualifies someone to be a saint and who assigns the title.

I just need some clarifications and l want to learn....Thanks

In the Catholic Church, saints in the sense we use it today are not people who are still with us on earth, so do not worry about calling another person good , even though the same Christ told us to be perfect like our heavenly father is. Everyone in heaven wether known or unknown is a Saint. For those the church make known however, the process is as follows:

After the death of a person, it is actually those who were close to him or her in life, that demands for a declaration of the person as saint. Not outsiders, but insiders who knew the hidden virtues and vices. Saints are not people who never sinned, but people who never stopped trying to reach perfection. There are those who lived holy lives from childhood like: St.Theresa of Lisieux in France. There are some who turned from sin and to God later in their lives like St.Augustine of Hippo in Algeria.

When the people ask that someone be considered for sainthood, the church looks into it, if there exists reasonable facts, the Church then appoints, a theologian, under a bishop, to investigate his life. At this point, the person gets the title "servant of God".

If from the investigations, the Bishop is able to provide evidence to those in charge of sainthood in Rome, that this person truly lived a heroic life of virtues, the Church gives the person the title of "Venerable".

The Church all these while continue to ask God for a miraculous prove that the person is with Him. The people are encouraged to ask for miraculous favour through the intercession/prayers of this holy person. Once there is a proven case of a miracle wrought through his or her intercession, and the church accepts one as true beyond all doubts(note that there may be thousands claimed), the Pope declares the person a "blessed".

On the occurance of a second miracle again obtained via the person's intercession/prayers, and accepted by the Church as undeniable, the person is declared a saint. It is now clear to the universal Church that this child of hers is now in the branch of the Church in heaven, and that the life of such a person on earth is a practical example of how to put Jesus words into use.

Apart from miraculous interventions in the lives of the people, God also shows His endorsement through some extraordinary events on some saints eg. Some remain incorruptible years after their death eg St. Bernadette, some like St. Januarius have their coagulated blood turn to liquid at certain predetermined times repeatedly, Some have a sweet odour around them many years after death. Etc.

Is it biblical to say that someone is in heaven? Well, the Jews when they talk about: Abraham, Isaac, Esther, Judith, Jacob etc, they never talk of them as people who may be damned do they? There was never a doubt that these people obeyed God, and God was happy with them.

SalC:
Believe me, this question is not just for the elders but for all of us.

You see, every now and then i see people preaching or at least striving to do God's will and worship him.
At closer observation i noticed it's usually for two main reasons.
1) Because we want to please him and thereby obtain the good things he promised those who serve and worship him here on earth and also to inherit his kingdom in the hereafter.

2) Because we are scared of disobey him and ending up in hell or being eternally destroyed as the case maybe.

Now my question is,..What if God never promised us any reward especially inheriting his kingdom or eternal joy. What if he never said anything about eternal damnation but only demand we do good and worship him because he created us and is deserving of our love obedience and worship.

Can we truly worship him if the above is the case?
To re-phrase, can we worship God without expecting anything in return?

I need personal answers.

It's a bit complicated what you ask SalC to be honest. When there exists good and bad there exists judgement, there exists consequence as well. From the beginning God made it so. Imagine if there was no consequence of death for Adam's eating of the forbidden tree, that he disobeyed God and nothing happened, things were still normal and there was no death, Jesus will not come, even the very existence of God will be doubted, things will neither be good nor bad, as the very existence of both suggests consequences.

In my opinion, God does not demand that I serve him without expectation, as a matter of fact one of the first things I learnt about God is why I was made, and what I was taught was that He "made me to know Him; love Him; serve Him in this world, that I may be with Him in the world to come". So from the very start, the prospect of being eternally with the good Creator is a reward placed before me. So as each day goes, I come to know Him; because He exists, I come to love Him; because He is nice and showed me love first, I come to serve Him; because I recognize that He made all things, yet I do all these because I look forward to being with Him in eternity.

Kamsified:
Sighting Syncan and SalC with my big old binoculars

Good morning to you, A splendid day ahead to all.

Ubenedictus:
Spend time at mass, maybe daily masses, daily communion, read scriptures... like a lot...pursue avenues of grace, keep your thoughts on Christ as much as possible...it is all back to the basics.
The main point is that we do good and avoid sin by going close to Christ. It is affinity to Christ that generates a good xtian life not the other way round.

Funny enuf these thoughts came after reading 1jn 3, i encourage every1 to take a look.

Thanks. Great message, I enjoyed your posts. 1Jn 3 is wonderful, even the fatherly and tender way of writing it by St. John is touching.

Ubenedictus:
3. The key to this transfiguration into the image of Christ is to contemplate(look at) his face with unvieled eyes.
During lent we usually try to aviod maybe one sin or maybe practice one virtue... But maybe we are missing the full picture of lent... Maybe it isn't just about trying to avoid sin but about trying to look more intently on Christ and this gaze of love is what transforms us until we drop our imperfections for the perfections in christ Jesus?...

Ubenedictus:
... the path of holiness is to become a new Christ and be molded to his image...and the way to defeat all sin is pretty simple "LOOK AT JESUS". We are transform simply by opening our heart and looking without obstruction. Transforming grace accumulates and activate by contemplating the Lord's glory.

Thank you very much Uben.

With the above quotes in mind, could you offer a kind of practical aid for one who wants to do this, like...here am I... I want to do what you just said, how do I begin, what do you recommend for me this lent?

Ubenedictus:
i still cant find the passage that says all the oral tradition were later written down.

has anyone here found it?

I got tired of searching...maybe it is oral tradition of men by JMAN05

Ubenedictus:
i agree, syncan where art thou? I also remember so of d best posts i have read on NL were written by syncan.

Chai, he misses the main point.

Kamsified:
Excuse rejected with 2hands

Most things we hear in church are usually things we've heard before. So they should assume everyone knows it n close church
Besides, those messages are not necessarily for Syncan or SalC, random people visit some of these threads and could get blessed by a message as simple as 'Jesus loves you'


On a second third thought, Syncan is equally guilty here mtchew

The last line...now I see the lent isn't working on you as much as I thought.

Kamsified:
It's about to go down again

Ubenedictus vs Syncan

*grabs a bowl of popcorn but then remembers this is lent and drops the popcorn sharply*


Just watching with nothing

Kamsified:
On a second thought, Ubenedictus used to be very generous with us. Sharing the things he's learning about lent and all. Now he's so stingy with the gospel. Mtchew

Nne the lent is working on you I see

Ubenedictus:
U know that viola\erueka moment when you find out you dont really know that much? i had one recently. i go try one of these days to share sumtin even if i know say na weytin una sabi already.

Booked my space already.

Ubenedictus:
These days lent dey sweet pass xmas... for some days now i just dey fill like say i dey inside one sweet mass wen no gree finish. u know dat kind mass wey u go then after mass u no go wan commot 4 church.

thank God 4 lent

Chop alone. You for de drop small small things for us here, make we take de hold ourselves for lent. Remember the rich man and Lazarus o LK. 16

Ubenedictus:
I just saw this mention and decided to read the thread and see what it was about, e don tay...after reading the thread I became really disappointed neither pastorolut or his patner came back to finish the discussion...dem try.

syncan i see u o

You sef, you too de look.

easymancfc:
Hello Everyone, am Easyman (Ezekiel).. Am really happy about this thread, although am sad am just discovering it today... I think some of you might have seen my posts and response to anti Catholic claims on nairaland... I am familiar with Ubenedictus, Syncan and italo as I have seen their own response on said posts... Am just happy to be among fellow Catholics and I hope we help each other grow in the faith...

thanks

You're welcome home. The thread is as rich as can be. If you have time, simply peruse through at random, great info abounds. We look forward to your enriching it further. God bless you

A splendid day ahead to the brethren.

lacum:
Is Syncan also a Female?


Please Bros n Sis, how do i read the Bible so i can quote most passages of heart.

This has been attended to by the brethren. God bless you.

Ubenedictus:
I have no enemies, this is lent. Heb 12:14 [b]Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord[\b]

2 Thessalonians 3:16 Now may the Lord of peace himself give you peace at all times and in every way. The
Lord be with all of you.

Amen.

SalC:
It's about to go down
Syncan vs Ubenedictus

..,.........,.........................

What's going down nne?

Ubenedictus:
Salc happy belated biaday. make i no talk b4 sumbori yab me for lent.

You for bear the yabbing, patiently and Silently, in the spirit of lent.

Ubenedictus:
this is deep!

Psalm 57:6 My enemies have set a trap for me. I am weary from distress. They have dug a deep pit in my path, but they themselves have fallen into it.

lacum:
Chai, you mean Sal C is female? Hmmmmm , I have always thought she is a male o. She dey try sha, but how she dey get time to respond to questions here on Nairaland.

She is very much female. Indeed she dey try. As per how she de manage her time...I guess she herself could tell us.

Kamsified:
Good morning brethren and have a blessed day

A splendid day ahead to you too.

SalC:
Do you know of any other alternative?

I have come across "Career woman" at one time or the other used as an alternative. Maybe I will now add street wife as another term, curtesy of you.

SalC:
Are you suspecting she's a street wife?

Is that the alternative?

Kamsified:
Ok let me ask Syncan
Bros biko, as a house wife, is there anything wrong in giving up kitchen for lent?

Are you a house wife?