₦airaland Forum

SalC:
We didn't realise this place was on fire till you showed up. Please call the fire service.

Welcome back bro

No, let it burn. This fire is good. Thanks dearie.

Ilamina:
Catholic Church has swag

Frankly speaking, we don't know about the swag, we just worship God in the way handed down to us, from the apostles and their successors, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Wow. Seems i turned my back and the whole place caught fire. The last time people regrouped like this was when it was time for the Blessed Virgin Mary to leave. The apostles by Divine inspiration were gathered back from their various places of evangelization.

From the City of God....mother Mary of Agreda.

chikk:
At the chapel. He extended his divine mercy

Sunshine, its been a while. Hope you're doing good.


About your accommodation ish, sorry I cannot help, hopefully you'll find somewhere safe.

Kamsified:
where is Syncan?

Nne m, you're just back from a long absence, cool down first na.

SalC:
Uben you are on your own here. Which one is shitting on Syncan again? You just enjoy stirring up trouble abi?

So Ubenedictus na trouble stirrer?

Ubenedictus:
We all know d reason wey go make aboki recieve person call.

are u shitting on syncan and lushing rich d fyn bobo?

Ayam not understanding o

Ubenedictus:
CHIA syncan dem say u talk lie, na truth?

This kind one na im dem de answer with "if you know, you know".

jnrbayano:
Oburo eziokwu

Where your wedding invitation, abi you don marry without inviting us? It's been a long time since the last brother wedded and you're next in line. Abeg do make others pass.

Ubenedictus:
LOL
Why i no go look for the mummy and daddy of the house. syncan na my oga, patapata i go just lie down greet am.

i have been around watch the thread to see if any of my brethern will show face, bayano was just tickling me.

Na outsiders dem de wear long length cloth for, insiders know how the leg dey. We know who be oga for here.

SalC:
So you be dey find us?

If Syncan catch you, my hand no dey.

I thought you went solo since Jnrbayano came looking for you.

How have you been?

Nne throw me for soft ground o.

Kamsified:
When I type syncan, my phone will change it to 'duncan', and ubenedictus changes to 'benefits'.
Abeg I'm not typing any more names.

Happy New Year brethren

Lol, Ada nne your keyboard has rusted from lack of usage

SalC:
Thank God. This appointment is really yielding a positive result.

I'm happy for you.

SalC:
Am fine, trust you are fine too.

Yeah you were never far since the day you were appointed a guardian angel lol.

Really, I kinda feel I'm actually closer now than ever

UbiPetrus:
What is the lie? That Jesus Christ the son of God is the second person of the Blessed Trinity, was conceived and born of the virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried, descended to the dead, rose from the dead on the third day, ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of the father and will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead?

Where is the lie and what biblical support do you need?

I tire o. He's trying to hop unto another Issue.

solite3:
why Mary is not the mother of God

In the 4th century, when Constantine the Great appointed himself Pontifex Maximus – supreme head – of the Christian Church, pagans and their pagan beliefs began infiltrating Christendom. Among the most influential of the new “converts” were those from the Mediterranean and Middle East areas where worship of the “Great Mother Goddess” and the “Divine Virgin” had existed since Babylon. According to Britannica, these groups:
“….found within the Christian Church a new possibility of expression in the worship of Mary as the virgin mother of God, in whom was achieved the mysterious union of the divine Logos with human nature. ” (Britannica,
Christianity : The doctrine of the Virgin Mary and holy Wisdom.)
By the end of the 4th century, Mary the mother of Jesus, known prior to the advent of Constantine as the Christ-bearer, (Greek
Christotokos, ) was being referred to as the God-bearer, ( theotokos .) Thus was born the doctrine of Mary, mother of God, a title foreign to Scripture where she is called only the mother of Jesus. At first, this matter drew little attention, but in AD 428, Anastasius, a presbyter in the church at Constantinople, raised objections to the theotokos appellation, and thereby originated a controversy that continues to exist here in the 21 st century.
Anastasius was immediately supported in his position by Nestorius, bishop of the Constantinople church, who believed that the
theotokos title adversely affected the fact of our Lord’s full humanity. Cyril, powerful bishop of Alexandria, motivated as much by envy of Constantinople’s standing among the eastern churches as he was by the theological aspects of the controversy, joined battle over the issue with Nestorius, outflanked him at the AD 431 First Council of Ephesus, and succeeded in confirming Mary as the mother of God. Nestorius, falsely accused of separating Christ’s two natures – human and divine – subsequently was excommunicated, then sacked as bishop of Constantinople by the emperor, Theodosius II, who had appointed him in the first place. He died in exile, but the controversy lives on. Is Mary the mother or Jesus? Or is she, a created being, the mother of eternal God?
The Roman Catholic Church and certain mainline churches that split from Rome during or following the Reformation, declare unequivocally that Mary is, in fact, the mother of God. Those historically and currently who oppose this teaching are accused, as was Nestorius, of “dividing Christ” into an “earthly Jesus” and a “heavenly Jesus,” thereby denying the essential unity of our Lord’s two natures. But that is merely an unproved and unprovable accusation. Christ, in fact, had two distinct natures fused into a single human body, a mystery quite as hidden to man as three distinct persons comprising a single Godhead. To say that Mary was the mother of Jesus only is no more a division of Christ’s two natures than acknowledging Christ as the only begotten Son of the Father is a division of the Godhead. Both are mysteries akin to that of a virgin being with child allegedly conceived by that same unborn child because He is a member of the Godhead. Shades, in other words, of the Babylonian “Mystery” religion.
In a document entitled, The Mother of Jesus , published by the Catholic Information Service of the Knights of Columbus, justification for calling Mary the mother of God is capsulized in the following two paragraphs:
In the natural and normal process of human reproduction, when both maternal and paternal functions unite, God simultaneously creates the human soul which enlivens the fecundated ovum in the woman’s womb, and thus a human person is conceived. It is always an individual’s human nature – a person who possesses human nature. (Emphasis added.)
It matters not that the woman has no part in the production of the spiritual element
(directly created by God) in the human nature of the person she conceives. It suffices that she has supplied the bodily substance which goes into the constitution of human nature possessed by the person, that she rightly acquires the title of mother. (Emphasis added.)
No one disputes the fact that Mary is the mother of the human Jesus even though she was not the “supplier” of His human soul. Nor is there any question that the man Christ Jesus was created human in body, soul and spirit. What is disputed is the extension of the title “mother” to a divine nature that eternally existed and was not created in the womb of the virgin. A mother is only the mother of what originates within her womb. The second person of the blessed trinity did not originate in Mary’s body. He is without beginning – has always existed – and has no mother.
“Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.) (Psalm 90:2) “Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting.” (Psalm 93:2)
“But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him,” (Psalm 103:17) “Blessed be the LORD God of Israel from everlasting to everlasting: and let all the people say, Amen. Praise ye the LORD.” (Psalm 106:48)
That Jesus had two natures – one created and one eternal - united in a single human body is beyond question. That only one of those two natures originated in Mary’s womb also is beyond question. And why she cannot then be called the mother of God finds an exact parallel in Christ’s relationship to King David.
“He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David :” (Luke 1:32) “And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?” (Matt 12:23) “And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David ; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.” (Matt 15:22) “And, behold, two blind men sitting by the way side, when they heard that Jesus passed by, cried out, saying, Have mercy on us, O Lord, thou son of
David.” (Matt 20:30) “And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the son of David : Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.” (Matt 21:9)
In these Scriptures it is clearly established that the nation of Israel expected their Messiah to derive – as prophesied - from the tribe of Judah and the house of David, thereby attributing fatherhood of the Messiah to David in accordance with their method of reckoning descent. But David cannot be called the father of God because of his relationship to the man Christ Jesus. Our Lord Himself preempted any possibility of that erroneous belief.
“While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David. He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? If David then call him Lord, how is he his son? And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.” (Matt 22:42-46) Parallel accounts of this episode are found in Mark 12: 35-37, and Luke 20:41-44.
In these Scriptures, our Lord has done what Roman Catholic apologists say may not be done. He has clearly drawn a line between the human nature and the eternal nature of Christ. He has clearly established the fact that David is NOT the father of God, because he is NOT the father of the second person of the blessed trinity. He has clearly shown this distinction of natures to be a mystery – one the Jews of His day could not comprehend any better than the Roman Catholics or Christians of the 21st century. This mystery of the two fused but separate natures manifest in Christ finds another reference in the following excerpt from the Gospel of John. When confronted by the Jews and constrained to identify himself, John the Baptist’s response included this interesting disclosure: “For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him .” (John 3:34) Certainly the Holy Spirit could not have been given to the Second Person of the trinity for He is part of that trinity. So the Holy Spirit that was given without measure was given only to the
man Christ Jesus.
It stands to reason, then, that like King David – to whom fatherhood ONLY of the
man Christ Jesus is attributed - Mary is the Mother ONLY of the man Christ Jesus. To prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt, let us insert Mary’s name in place of King David’s in the previously cited Scriptures:
“While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of MARY . He saith unto them, How then doth MARY call him Lord, saying, My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. (Luke 1:46, 47) If
MARY then call him Lord, how is he her son? And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.”
To insist that Mary is Christotokos only and not theotokos is not to separate Jesus into a “heavenly Jesus” and an “earthly Jesus” as Roman Catholicism contends. It is merely recognizing what Jesus Himself made clear, that David was not the father of God, and by parallel reasoning, Mary was His earthly mother only, and not a Goddess or Queen of Heaven worthy of the title mother of God.
Because the Second Person of the blessed trinity is an eternal being having neither a beginning nor an ending, it was the man Christ Jesus who suffered as the second Adam on Calvary and died for the sins of the world. The Second Person of the trinity did not die, cannot die or be put to death. And it’s the man Christ Jesus – not the Second Person of the trinity - who is said Scripturally to be the one mediator between God and man. (1 Tim 2:5) He who is eternal, who could not and cannot die, could not be, and was not, born of the virgin.
Conclusion: Jesus Christ the man is the son of Mary. The Second Person of the Trinity is her God, not her son, for He did not originate in her womb.

As I read through this, Matt. 28:15 comes to mind, of the Jewish elders distorting the story of the resurrection. Distortion of facts, yet still not achieving the desired result.

Just so you know:

Do you know that the use of Pontifex Maximus did not start with Constantine, Just that he was the first for the Christian Church, being the first Christian Emperor?

Do you know that Nestorius was the one that appealed to the Emperor to convene a church council to decide whether Mary was God bearer or not?

Do you know that Some of those who participated in the Council of 431AD were also there when the present lists of new testament books were given it's authority as canons?

Do you know that this church council condemned Nestorius heresy and proclaimed Mary as Theotokus - God bearer- Mother of God.

Do you know that this council as old as 431AD, was held in a church already dedicated in honour of Mary, Called "Church of Mary" in Ephesus?

blueAgent:
So you finally accept that Jesus is not the same as his father God?

Do you want the truth, or to hold on to the opinion of whoever you have been listening to? Remember this is not a law court, it's about Faith, only the truth will set you free.

Stop trying hard to justify yourself as correct by forcing falsehood on me. Since 325 AD, after the council of Nicea, No Catholic ever claims that the father is the son, for it is a heresy. So you see how ridiculous telling such a lie against us look? That's why you're getting these funny responses from others.

Meanwhile, I just answered your question clearly, with scripture and your words, yet you didn't even acknowledge that I was right.

MuttleyLaff:
Has nothing to do with inventing the title mother of God
The moment Jesus was born, Mary as the mother of God incarnate was born too
Mary, as the mother of God incarnate, never existed prior to the birth of Jesus
Mary existed but Mary, as mother of God incarnate, never did.
Mary, as the mother of God incarnate, was something undoubtedly new for Mary

I am grateful to you for conceding on the red emboldened. Light in the tunnel, there is a beacon of hope

solite3, since you are agreeing that Mary is the mother of Jesus (i.e. is the mother of Christ)
will if, showing you, with scripture, that, same Jesus, is God, then, making Mary be the mother of God, appeal to you?

Please dont even dare change direction into imported pagan practice(s), so address the following:

1/ Would or does Mary getting called the mother of Christ seat well with you?
2/ How is Mary mother of God not scriptural?
3/ Why do you say Mary mother of God is not scriptural?
4/ Rapture and Trinity that you believe in, is that scriptural because the words, Rapture and Trinity, are written in the bible?
5/ If you say Rapture and Trinity is scriptual, even though, the words Rapture and Trinity are not written in the bible,
then why isnt Mary mother of God not scriptural, if it too, like the words Rapture and Trinity is not written in the bible?

Provide all or the bible references of Jesus doing this please and lets together, review them.

"For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden:
for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed."
- Luke 1:48

solite3, are you sure about this your comment?
Are you sure that "no special attention or veneration was placed on Mary"?

Exaltation of Mary to "special attention or veneration" status was not invented by the church
Exaltation of Mary to "special attention or veneration" status, is 110% scriptural

In fact, the exaltation of Mary to "special attention or veneration" status isnt a church invention.
The "special attention or veneration" status originated from angel Gabriel's Day 1 visitation.
Not just that, Mary, even, with her song, in Luke 1:48 above, predicted the "special attention or veneration" status

And it came to pass, as he spoke these things,
a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said to him,
Blessed is the womb that bore you,
and the breasts which you have sucked.
(i.e. woman, in effect, is saying to Jesus, blessed is your mother)
- Luke 11:27

Jesus would have witnessed this "special attention or veneration" status too, so many times, all over
and that's why, for posterity sake, one of Jesus' firsthand experiences of the exaltation of Mary to "special attention or veneration" status
is historically recorded, as read in Luke 11:27 above

"His mother saith unto the servants,
Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it."
- John 2:5

Mothers know their child best
John 2:5, is a classic display of a mother love, that enables a human being

It's only a mother, like one in John 2:5 above, that knows and sees the best in her son.
It can only be a mother that gives green light like that
and implying its OK for her son, to do the an unimaginable and impossible.

Oh, how I love this. For acknowledging this truth, may God richly bless you. If it were a Catholic speaking, they will shout blue murder up and down.

UbiPetrus:
Yes, he is.

Ah, then I don comot hand for him matter o

blueAgent:
Explain to me how A was with B and yet A is B.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


Again, according to your added posts above, God also calls his son God in Heb1:8, and I agree, because his son is the Word, who was with him from the beginning, and who was made flesh (in the womb of the Virgin Mary), and dwelt among us, John 1:14.



I just quoted scripture, are you quarreling with it?

blueAgent:
I never said Jesus is not God. what i mean Jesus the son of God is different from God the father[b] it is not one being playing two roles as Catholic are trying to say[/b]. but One God who has a Son Jesus.
of course been born by God makes him God also.
In john1:2 and proverbs8:22 both talks about in the begining and they mention two beings a father and a son.

Please clarify yourself without bringing Catholics in, you don't know what we say. Stop telling lies against us, except the devil is your father.

John1:1, they mentioned two beings according to you, yet you didn't see where they said that:

1. That second being was with God
2. That Second being is God.

In about the year 429AD, a certain Bishop called Nestorius ran into the same difficulty as some posters here. Note that before this time, no one had disputed calling Mary "Mother of God". In response to this Bishop, an extract from Bishop Cyril's letter to him read thus:


"the holy fathers... have ventured to call the holy Virgin Theotokos, not as though the nature of the Word or his divinity received the beginning of their existence from the holy Virgin, but because from her was born his holy body, rationally endowed with a soul, with which [body] the Word was united according to the hypostasis, and is said to have been begotten according to the flesh"

(Cyril's second letter to Nestorius).


No be today Hausa with bow and arrow.

MuttleyLaff:
www.nairaland.com/attachments/7709849_img20171102162431edit_jpegbb0d985a572d439b089da36ae6da5bc9
"Pussy cat, pussy cat, where have you been? ...
I've been to London to visit the Queen."

Aside taking you down memory lane with the above nursery rhyme,
please Syncan, enjoy the skit cartoon too above it

Objectively? Yes, always, has been my belief on the topic
My comments are a dead giveaway, that's my belief

"³⁷For nothing will be impossible with God.”
³⁸“I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered.
“May it happen to me according to your word.”
Then the angel left her. "
- Luke 38:37-38

God had a mother, the minute, Mary in, Luke 38:38 agreed
and gave permission for this to happen with the "May it happen to me according to your word." remark

Thanks for the warm welcome , even God's mother would be too humble to collect more than God

Why do you think other non-Catholics such as the OP find it difficult to accept this, reading through this thread, you can see posts that could make the mother of the poster cringe with horror, just because the poster wants to deny that Mary is the mother of God. I have read people taking motherhood to "pre-existence" times, whatever that means. I have read people say that once the people leave earth you stop calling them mother of their children. Why do you think your bible passages did not suffice?

SalC:
Welcome back. You left us and ran away.

How are you nne, I was never far from you.

A splendid day ahead to all.

Wow! Where have I been. Took time to read through the whole thread, read through the wheat and weed alike. If I may ask,Muttleylaff, has this always been your belief on this topic?

SalC:
Happy Sunday brethren. As we celebrate the feast day of St Padre Pio, may we be inspired by his life and aided by his intercession.

Amen Amen. A splendid day to you and all.

Aizenosa:
This post got me rolling on the floor, I cannot stop laughing, oh my ribs. Please do ur research before posting.

Abeg laugh jare, enjoy.

Jidykejay:
Virgin Mary married in family of David where God promised the Messiah will come from. If she had outside the family of David she will never be the mother of Jesus though she's a virgin. It's the grace that she had. She was saved from her sin by Jesus.

Hmm, before you were formed, I knew you...says scripture.

doyinbaby:
do they still say it....yes or no

See Luke 20:8

doyinbaby:
do Catholics still pray .... this we fly to thy patronage prayer?, asking Mary to deliver you from danger

Dear Sis, take a moment to consider this in all honesty:

Catholics said that prayer as far back as the 3rd century.
Catholics said that prayer when they separated a set of books; from the others also used in churches then, and called these set "Scripture"
Catholics said these prayers when they hid in catacombs away from the persecutors, and said it as well when caught, tried and killed for their faith.
Catholics said this prayer when they went through the whole world preaching the good news accompanied by many miracles

If Catholics of today no longer say this prayer, will they be better Christians than those early Catholics or worse?

Rich4god:
Thanks my brother... Hope you are doing great...?

Am doing just fine. Hope it's same for you too.

St. Maria Goretti, pray for us.

MuttleyLaff:
I wish you same too

Syncan, as I earlier mentioned, I dont want and never set to fall out with you.

I dont have the time too, but I when necessary, just free time to post.

Responding to posts section by section, remark by remark, statement by statement is an acquired skill
How else to counter?

Canon of scripture is not the same thing as canonisation of saints
Canon of scripture is a collection or list of sacred books accepted as genuine and are distinct from falsely attributed works

Why the canonisation of saints then?
Is it an exercise done or necessary to recognise the gennine from the false?
If its accepted and agreed that, they are already saints in heaven, why then, is it necessary to declare them saints?

Thanks for your understanding MuttleyLaff.

What you're playing with is basically semantics, which isn't necessary. The inspired books were canonized by listing them in the Canon of scripture, while the saints you talk about were Canonized by listing them in the Canon of Saints. This is simply to demystify canonization and what it means.

Why it is necessary to declare them saints is among other things, a provision of role models for the living. Nothing like knowing that someone faced with same conditions of your age/generation, still lived a holy life. It is true we face different challenges and temptations than the people of the scriptures, so it's good to have examples of those who lived in these times and lived holy lives. We had saints who died as youths, their lives serves as role model of Christlike living for youths who find themselves in certain situations those saints found themselves. We have the religious, we have the lay, we have people from various modern professions. St Paul in 1Cor 4:16 told the People "therefore I urge you to Imitate me...". People often learn from the lives of the Heroes/models of their society, the church has her's dear friend.