₦airaland Forum

Emyogalanya:
IMAGINE HOW YOU REASON YOU MEAN FOR 12 WHOLE YEARS HE WAS JUST LOOKING AT MARY WITH EYES

We all don't reason same way my dear, that's life. My question to you is this "Is it impossible "?

Nauttyprof:
Assumptions again. The Bible stated what was clear for anyone to read.

Matthew 1:25 talked about future sexual intercourse after the birth of Christ. So, there was no assumption to the first bold texts. The virginity of Mary ended after the birth of Christ.

In all, the Bible remains the sole authority.

Hahahaha, Please from 1-5, which one is not from Scripture? But this your statement "They are the ones given birth to after the birth of Christ" is purely a figment of your imaginations, else quote me a single place that says this.

Investnow2017:
It was Luke who reported Elizabeth being the COUSIN of Mary. If the biological brothers of Jesus were cousins or nephews Luke would have indicated that when writing the book of Acts of the apostles Chapter 1:14.

If Joseph had other children BEFORE Jesus, where does the Bible say that?

Mary was bethrothed to Joseph before Jesus was born. Why would Joseph want to marry if he had no need to have children. If he never wanted a child would he not have voiced his complaint when he noticed that Mary was pregnant. Was it the custom of the Jews back then to marry without the prospect of raising children?

Those who knew better referred to Jesus as having brothers and sisters as reported in the Holy Scriptures.Mark 6:3, 1st Cor 9:5 etc.

Of most important though is the vital role of Jesus Christ in the outworking of God's purpose to sanctify his illustrious Name.

You are just going in circles. The use of brethren for relatives is indisputable in scripture, secondly I have already shown the mother of those mentioned from scriptures. I repeat, no where in scripture will you find it those people called "Children of Mary", NO WHERE.

I never said Joseph had any other Children before Jesus, don't know where you got that from. Those people mentioned are children of Cleopas, some theologians say he is a brother to Joseph. Scripture didn't say exactly who he was, but must be a relation.

You talk of Joseph voicing out complain, well he was planning on how to send Mary home, have you forgotten? There's so much speculations in your post, let us stick to what is revealed.

Nauttyprof:
Like I stated you've brought assumptions into this. The Bible didn't speak of the Pharisees referring to Mary's sister but directly mentioned those names as Jesus' brothers.

They are the ones given birth to after the birth of Christ.

When you quoted Jude 1:1, it doesn't validate any point as to no existence of Jude being Jesus' brother. Can I show you what Galatians 1:19 says - I saw none of the other apostles —only James, the Lord’s brother.

Tell me, if the Bible also made an error here.

We speak where the Bible speaks and be silent where it doesn't

The first bold: You can never show me where you got that assumption from scripture, so you are now the one speaking where the bible was silent.

Second bold: Which error are you talking about, I have shown you who the mother of those mentioned is, Scripture clearly pointed it out, so you won't be in this error, but you still fell into it.

Chronology of events:

1. The names were mentioned as brothers of Jesus (Note:not children of Mary), Mk.6:3 "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

2. The mother of those brethren of Jesus is mentioned .......MK.15:40 "There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome".Mk15:40

3. The woman is identified properly... john19:25."Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene".

4. The earlier mentioned Jude confirms he is brother of James, who is also son of the other Mary in Jude 1:1 "Jude, servant of Jesus Christ and brother of James".

5. This James called brother of Jesus is also His apostle, James the less. Gal 1:19 "But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother"

Now from the above, counting from

5. We see that James the less is the apostle of Jesus and mentioned as his brother,
4, we see that this James has a brother who is Jude,
3, We see wife of cleopas identified
2, we see that James has another brother who is Joses, and their mother is "wife of cleopas" as seen in 3.
1, All three brothers are mentioned including Simon as brothers of Jesus, but we have already now identified at least Joses and James as Children of the other Mary, wife of cleopas.

This is scripture.

Investnow2017:
Oh i like your references and persuasion. Yet this is not to be taken that Mary never had other children. She continued to remain the wife of Joseph after the birth of Jesus. If the equation of Joseph is refutted of what essence was he in the entire picture?

Reading the gospel account leaves no room to draw conclusion that Mary continued to remain a virgin. Those said to be BROTHERS of Jesus were actually his half brothers, children of Mary by Joseph. Where the context suggests otherwise it would have been indicated.

For instance, Elizabeth was referred to as Mary's COUSIN, Luke 1.36. And the other gospel writers make clear that Jesus had sisters too.

As there were many Marys so there were many Josephs, Judahs, Simeon, etc. And to a large extent some of these are actually related in some way. If those referred to as BROTHERS of Jesus were cousins or nephews, this would have been captured.

Joseph might have died before Jesus, hence Jesus handed his mother over to John his disciple-friend closest to him. Why? Apparently because his own half brothers by Mary were not yet believers according to John 7:5. But after his death, they became believers that is why subsequent Bible writers like Paul while writing endeavoured to differentiate the direct brothers of Jesus as he did in his letters at Galatians 1:19 and 1st Corinthians 9:5.

The apostle Luke who identified Elizabeth at Luke 1:36 would have done the same while referring to Jesus' half brothers as BROTHERS at Acts 1:14.

Yes, Mary had other children after her virgin birth of Jesus, hence Jesus is rightly called Mary's FIRSTBORN son, Luke 2:6-7.

In all, however, it does not justify praying through Mary or in her name when there is a clear command and principle that prayers should be said to God THROUGH Jesus Christ, who himself says I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, no one comes to the Father except through me, John 14:6

Please understand is that the term brother (Gk. adelphos) has a broader meaning than brothers of same womb. One could take it to mean biological brother, but it can also mean an extended relative, or even a spiritual brother.

Take Genesis 13:8 for example. Here the word brother is being used to describe the relationship between Abraham and Lot, who were not biological brothers but uncle and nephew:

“So Abram said to Lot, “Let’s not have any quarreling between you and me, or between your herdsmen and mine, for we are brothers” (Gen 13:8, NIV; see also 14:12).

There is NO WHERE in scripture where those people were called CHILDREN OF MARY, but every where you see Mary mother of Jesus.

Again I maintain that EX.13:2 continues to tell us that you do not wait till you get siblings before dedicating the "Firstborn" to God. Firstborn is not first out of many, but first to open the womb, this is scripture speaking and i have shown you where. Jesus is Firstborn because He opened the womb of Mary, not because he is first among many.

linearity:
Matt. 1:24-25:
“Then Joseph....took unto him his wife: And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.”

Meaning...
1. Joseph consummated his marriage with Mary, but waited until Jesus was born.

2. Jesus was not the only child of Mary, he was the firstborn son.

Answers
1a. 1 Timothy 4:13, Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation, to teaching.

Does this mean Timothy should stop teaching after Paul comes?

1b. 1corinthians 15:25, For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet

Does this mean Christ reign will end afterwards?

2. Firstborn is a reality and a title, It is used to refer to the one who opened a womb, it is conferred naturally at birth, it does not wait to be given only when you get siblings. see Ex.13:2

"Sanctify unto me all the firstborn, whatsoever openeth the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and of beast: it is mine".

LeoFish92:
I guess the Angel appeared the second time after the birth of Jesus and warned him never to make love to his wife.... Smh

We wouldn't know, would we?

Investnow2017:
You did not answer the question: Why was Jesus referred to as Mary's FIRSTBORN son? Luke 2:6-7

It is because Firstborn is a reality and a title, It is used to refer to the one who opened a womb, it is conferred naturally at birth, it does not wait to be given only when you get siblings. see Ex.13:2

"Sanctify unto me all the firstborn, whatsoever openeth the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and of beast: it is mine".

VIPERVENOM:
Mark 15: 40: Some women were watching from a distance. Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James the younger (who is a disciple of Jesus) and of Joseph (which means Joses in greek), and Salome.

Going by "your scripture" are u now telling us that mary of clopas was the carpenter's second wife?



These are totally different people from the brothers of Jesus (James, Joseph, Jude, Simon)

Jude and Simon weren't mentioned as sons of Mary of Clopas neither was Salome mentioned as one of the brothers of Jesus

I'm done abeg.


Am arahia

Hahahaha @ they are totally different people. You should read scripture more often. So have you read Gal.1:19 before? But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother"

Same brothers mentioned in MK.6:3 were mentioned in MK15:40. Same Jude in MK.6:3 wrote Jude.1:1 "Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and brother of James" This same Jude was also Jesus apostle, where did you get the impression that they aren't same persons? Now we've linked three out of the four and they are Children of Mary of cleopas and not mother of Jesus. Please Kindly read Matt 27:56 and John19:25 to know who the mother of those named is.

Mark 15: 40: Some women were watching from a distance. Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James the younger (who is a disciple of Jesus) and of Joseph (which means Joses in greek), and Salome.

john19:25."Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene".

If you want to know who Salome is, then see Matt. 27:56 "Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children.

That's all I have for you.

LaaJiblik:
A Jewish man marries a wife.
A Jewish man refuses to have sex with her.
Does he have erexyile dysfunction?

Do YOU have any proof that Joseph did not have sex with Mary after the Birth of Jesus?

Yeah, are you perplexed? A Jewish man still kept a woman who became pregnant without his involvement, in his house as spouse. I won't deny you your fantasies, just know you've made no point.

Merry Christmas to you all. May the year ahead be splendid for you with answered prayers.

VIPERVENOM:
I mean the Joses u mentioned. U misunderstood me. And no its no copy and paste. Jesus's brother Joseph was at times called Joses

CASE CLOSED

Oga, be open to truth. The mother of Jesus "brothers" Joseph/Joses and James is Wife of cleopas called Mary. Mk.15:40, Jn 19:25.

So says Scripture.

LaaJiblik:
Let’s Assume (while not conceding) that those were his cousins, not Mary’s children.

Question is: Did Joseph have Sex with Mary AFTER the Birth of her first child?

Do you have any proof that he did?

victorakpabome:
You sure? Anyway I don't read the Bible often, so you may be right.

I am very right. I have both scriptural backing and that of early church leaders including Protestant fathers.

VIPERVENOM:
James the less was a disciple of Jesus and i neva mentioned Joses as a brother of Jesus. Like i said earlier

Oga, no de lie na, I quoted your post o. Go and Check Mk.6:3 you quoted to see Joses there, abi you don't read your copy and paste?

Nauttyprof:
There isn't any connection with the other Bible verses quoted. If the Bible were referring to Mary's Sister, then the 4 male children would have been mentioned and not just two. Besides, the James they referred to was James the younger.

This is my own position on this as we speak only where the Bible speaks and be silent where the Bible says nothing.

hahahaha, now you want scripture to mention the four, when scripture already mentioned them in an earlier verse, so each time scripture mentions them it should call the four right, You should tell that to Jude who was mentioned as one of them, but decided to say thus :Jude 1:1 Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and brother of James. Tell Jude to mention others too na. Note he called himself servant of Jesus, but brother of James. Same James whose brothers are also Simon and Joses, and whose mother is the wife of cleopas and not Joseph. MK.15:40, Jn19:25

victorakpabome:
Yes she did. I am Catholic by the way. See the proof from Bible.org below:

https://bible.org/question/did-mary-have-any-children-other-jesus-if-so-how-can-she-be-eternal-virgin

Sorry o, She didn't. This your link na trash. Na ignorance de worry the people. Just this is enough to tell you who gave birth to the "brothers of Jesus".

"There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome".Mk15:40

And who is this Mary mother of James and Joses? St. John says:

"Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene". john19:25

LaaJiblik:
Did Joseph have sex with Mary AFTER the Birth of Jesus Christ?

Scripture never said he did.

VIPERVENOM:
The scripture mentioned it multiple times


Matthew 13:55-56 " Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? 56 "And His sisters, are they not all with us ? Where then did this man get all these things?

Mark 6:3 " Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us ?"


Mt 12:46 While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. 47 And someone said to Him, " Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You." 48 But He answered the one who was telling Him and said, "Who is My mother and who are My brothers?" 49 And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, "Behold, My mother and My brothers



John 2:12 After this He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother, and His brothers, and His disciples; and there they stayed a few days.

In all these, you haven't mention a single place scripture called them Mary's children, rather it calls them "brothers of Jesus" and we know how we use the term brothers even in our won parlance. Yet scripture was very careful to tell you who the mother of those people was when it said.

"There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome".Mk15:40

And who is this Mary mother of James and Joses? St. John says:

"Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene". john19:25

adetayo234:
No, she didn't

You're right. They can check my posts above for scripture.

VIPERVENOM:
Mary had four other sons, Joseph, James, Jude, and Simon. Because of the virgin birth, Joseph was not the father of Jesus so these were the half brothers of Jesus. The last three mentioned are not to be confused with those who were disciples of Jesus by the same name. Here are some passages where the other sons of Mary by Joseph are mentioned ( Matt. 12:46; 13:55 ; Mark 6:3 ;
John 2:12; 7:3, 5, 10 ; Acts 1:14 ; 1 Cor. 9:5 ; Gal. 1:19 )

Never did scripture mention the Virgin Mary as the mother of those mentioned. Rather Scripture mentioned the name of their mother in John 19:25, Mk.15:40 and clearly shows it wasn't Mary the mother of Jesus.

Nauttyprof:
Mary had other children and after the birth of Christ. Christ birth was a virgin birth. Jesus had not just brothers but Sisters

See Matthew 13:55-56
“Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and aren’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas?
Aren’t all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?”

Why not compare these scriptures:

1."Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him".(Mk6:3)

With this:

2."There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome".Mk15:40

And who is this Mary mother of James and Joses? St. John says:

"Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene". john19:25


They were not Mary's children. Scripture never said so.

FloraEC:
Good evening, please I've a question. Going by what is happening in Nigeria now(kidnapping, child molestation e.t.c), do parents still allow their children to go for Saturday's morning mass, block Rosary crusade and visitation, block Rosary, Sunday benediction, catcheism classes, Christmas carols e.t.c even join church leagues like Vincent D' Paul, Infant Jesus, Marian movement e.t.c? If they still do, by what time do they start and dismiss, how do they do it?
I've an altar in my house and I always teach them how to say the Rosary but the block Rosary in my area is in the church street and is kinda far from my house and I'm scared of letting them out.

Yes Sis, parents still do. The child has to be old enough to go on his/her own, the distance to the church matters, is it a lonely road or busy road? Children still attend school inspire of the negatives we hear, attending church activities should not be an exception, however there is need for monitoring. The important thing in your case of block rosary is saying the rosary, your home could be the block where rosary is said. Our Lady no go vex.

God bless you.

SalC:
Airtel
God bless Fada Kristimas

Congrats. The gift is sent

marksooyinmiebi:
Wow... thanks!


MTN

Congrats. The gift is sent

SalC:
Aww thank God.

So for clarity sake, is this the same way it is being taught in English catechism?

The Church teaching is same, however, because the catechism curriculum in English in our parishes makes use of this highly summarized (red cover) CCD book, most teachings as you received in Igbo language catechism are lost. It now rests on the shoulders of the teachers to expound further.

SalC:
Sacraments are outward signs of inward grace, ordained by Jesus Christ, by which grace is given to our souls.

The two divisions of the sacraments are ....
1)The sacrament of the living....Confirmation, Holy Eucharist, Anointing of the sick, Holy Orders and matrimony.


2) The sacrament of the dead......baptism and penance

Sorry I did my catechism in Igbo language, so I only tried to translate to English, don't laugh too much if it sounds funny

Spot on
Congrats SalC, you just won an airtime of #500 from fada Kristimas, for completing the answer. Send number and network please

marksooyinmiebi:
1- Sacraments are outward signs of inward grace, ordained by Jesus Christ, By which grace is given to our souls.

2- They are divided into three divisons, namely;

*The sacraments of initiation (Baptism, Confirmation, Eucharist)
*The sacraments of healing (Reconciliation, Anointing of the Sick)
*The sacraments serving the Church and the mission of the faithful (Holy Orders, Matrimony)

#runsAway

Congrats marksooyinmiebi, you just won an airtime of #500 from fada Kristimas for getting half of the answer, which is the first part. Send number and network please

SalC:
Am almost sure Lazarus won't even remember his suffering on earth let alone regret.
Do have a joyous day ahead too.

Hmm...then why do I feel so desperate about something on earth, when all that is important is to be in good terms with God. Why is waiting so difficult in a life that has an end?

SalC:
Airtel
God bless Fada Kristimas

Congrats. The gift is sent

Today Fada Kristimas focuses on sacraments .

What are sacraments and name the two divisions An airtime of 1k awaits whoever gives the most correct answer.

Today's responsorial

R.Blessed are all who wait for the Lord (see Isaiah 30:18d)

Brethren, just a passing thought...while in "Abraham's bossom " , (Lk. 16:19...) did Lazarus have regrets for the many years he suffered on earth, did he feel let down by God for not mitigating his plight on earth till he died? Am i going to feel bad in heaven if i didn't get something i am asking God for now ?

The answer lies within us.

Good morning brethren , a splendid day ahead to all.