₦airaland Forum

FrancisTony: Damerry- boygirl
Syncan- haven't recovered.
Chikk- Same
PopeII- miss him
Mariagracias- same
Mzmariah- doesn't want to come back.
Lynpetra- ignoring us.
Asabeq- hmmn.

oh...Double Saint...I see you and Mzmariah on the other thread, Who knows, wishes have a way of coming true. And on another...I am humbled.

jnrbayano: It's a pity I don't.

Syncan is not here, MariaGorretti, Mariagracias too, MrAladin is here though not very active ...I can't remember any more, you know I am the last born here

Wish I can reach them myself.

I am here sir, thank you.

Kamsified: Eiya.
I just feel like shouting: (" Woky! & Syncan! Come forth!!!!!!!" But let me leave that resurrection line for fr Ubenedictus

Shouting in the vatican isn't advisable, shhh, people are praying.

Rich4god: Now in page 144... We are moving ahead... This year in the history of the church, Marcion, the founder of Marcionism by excommunicated for his heretic teachings and movement. Read more in bible.ca/b-canon-canon-of-marcion.htm

Are you serious? There had been a 2014 in the history of the church?

Rich4god: lol... We knew some of our squad didnt return after the tsunami... We tried contacted those we can... So... We all knew you were missing in action and would return in matter of time.

How's your hols going? Hope am correct, so many info here to keep in mind.

Kamsified: Lezienu
SalC e be like say u never cure the shyness finish o. He's looketh for woky & the theologian to help him out

ehm...sorry wrong quote, no one mentioned me here. The Pope's secretary, how you dey?

jnrbayano: Your partner is here now okwa ya?

Okay, I go go bring Woky and Syncan soon

Kamsified dear, this time around she judged incorrectly

Dear bro, you didn't need to, I saw Ubenedictus is really in a combatant mode, na only him for handle them.

Rich4god: Welcome back the great T... We nissed you wella... How are you doing...

I am fine dearest bro, you had me so close to your heart, you never knew i wasn't around, lol. I see you're now holidaying in the east. Good to be in your midst again.

SalC: Nay I don't think it's just the two of them o. What about Mariagracias andd Syncan if you are talking of the regulars o. Yeah HC posted . Well am fine and you?

Remove my name from the absentees

woky: Chai! Hectic nyt kwa.. No be free shaa, money dy involve

my nyt was sweet but short


emmm.. I still dy wait strikt. But whr Chikk, MG, Priceofgari, Bluerange, Babestell, Syncan, PopeII, and others? The e-flood effect them

Dearest bro, not even e-ocean can stop Syncan.

SalC: Hmm Oga Syncan went into hibernation when NL crashed? Where is this theologian brother na

Am back, thank God.

SalC: Oga are you Syncan

I knoweth not him.

Ubenedictus: Hehehe,
these hackers no try at all!
Which kind stupid worm delete this page to 110? I be dey hope say i go be the first to comment in page 1000...

Anyway sha, every disappointment is a blessing, i see striktlymi is back with his old account and prolly some rejevenation.

I hear say some bad pipo no dey again, that is seemingly good news.

Boy-girl damerry i see you and i greet you.


How una dey?

Sal c, woky, kamsi, bluerange, syncan, francistony, all of unaa.

How far?

Here I am, Master.

striktlymi: Um...I will say you are quite right on that. I don't just accept stuff because someone says so. I don't accept the Teachings of the Church because the Pope or someone else says so. I accept the Teachings of the Church because the Holy spirit dictates whatever the Church Teaches.

For me, Catholicism is not something one just accepts truly without asking some soul searching questions and making some rather detailed research. The questions and scrutiny lead me to Catholicism...let's just say, if I had not chosen Catholicism, I wouldn't have chosen Christianity.

Don't get me wrong, I believe firmly that Jesus calls people in very different ways. He uses those who seemingly are outside the Church but the answers I seek can only be answered within the context of Catholicism.

This is priceless!

Ubenedictus: wow! This is d first time am seeing thank you in quotation marks addressed to me, that seems like thank you-ish. I dont know how to repond.

Do not worry much, I rather intended emboldening it. Thank you .

Ubenedictus: i think pop puis v can authoritatively tell us how far back the vetus ordo goes, this is wat he says:
"Hence, We decided to entrust this work to learned men of our selection. They very carefully collated all their work with the
ancient codices in Our Vatican Library and with reliable, preserved or emended codices from elsewhere. Besides this, these men consulted the works of ancient and approved authors concerning the same sacred rites; and thus they have restored the Missal itself to the original form and rite of the holy Fathers."

i didnt say it wasnt based on the vetus ordo, i instead said it was a reformation, and i'll now add that its reform didnt develop organically.

On the bolded, "thank you".

striktlymi: The CHURCH speaks! I follow!!



Good day ladies and gents!

Good day Strikt. I guess that sums it up.

Ubenedictus: i have just addressed it.

Yeah, I see how you addressed it.Dear respected brother, I will say at this point, that I've made my stand on the issue known. I'll leave it at that.

POPE II: Jesus is God , there's no way humans could have led him astray. There's no way his "fame/popularity" on earth could have sent him away from The path of his father.

The Pope is kinda different, I don't think I need to explain what I mean. Besides the people surrounding him are not him so erm .


Unfortunately I don't pray for him everyday, will definitively start doing so

Believe me, If the bolded is all I achieved from this discuss; I am most satisfied.

^^^Permit me to abstain from this discuss until you address my post above, because you just accused me of telling a lie against you.

Ubenedictus: Kindly calm down u seem to b at me 4 no reason. this isnt sweet again, abeg show me where i said the bolded, if u cant find it kindly retract ur lie against me. I just said d pope is d supreme judge and u still wrote the bolded?? Really?

I repeat d pope is the supreme judge in the church bt he is fallible in matters of discipline, in such matters am to obey him not necessaryly agree with him. Infact i put it to u that u do not even accept all papal decrees.
Disciplines are very important esp wen they deal with lex orandi.

My Post: Be attentive to the bolded.

Syncan: You see Sal C, the Pope is the Judge, he has given his judgement in over a case brought to him. It is expected to be "Rome has spoken;and it is final", but no, since it is Pope Francis, the one we are looking at suspiciously based on so many "weed" sown in our hearts, we must question it as if we could do better.

Your Response :

Ubenedictus: actually that isnt wat is expected, the pope is infallible on faith and moral only and is fallible on displine, he is the supreme judge in d church affair and thus i'm expected to obey i'm not expected to agree with all judgements in his name. I think stry made d same point wen discussing wit italo abt marraige.

Do you mind telling me what I said is expected and what you said is not?

POPE II: Okay.
But he shouldn't let the media hype gets to his head. They are anti Catholics to say the least.

Do you know how they call him ? A liberal pope wth is a liberal pope?

That is the problem Pope II, What has he changed in the church to deserve that? Do you know what they called our Lord, "A drunk and a friend of sinners", what did our Lord do to earn that?

I pray for him everyday, do you?

Ubenedictus: i didnt say u did, i make points wen i make them...

u see that ur reports are now two, i already posted wat d spokeman said about d situation, he clearly said a minority.
Dat one no reach.

hahaha, If na you, e go reach for you? One member of the group said something, I showed you two members giving their own say. Remember you are the accuser here, the onus lies on you to prove your case beyond reasonable doubt. So far, you have not.

POPE II: Syncan calm down abi , no one is attacking the pope. We are Catholics na , we only don't want to wake up tomorrow and have female priests or being forced to marry homosexuals etc . You know Catholicism is not a facebook status that you update whenever you want because you are the pope, there are things that shouldn't change esp when they don't demean Christendom/church . That's all .


Meanwhile I enjoyed the debate between you and Ube .

May God keep the pope on the right track.

Thank you Pope II, you may not know the damage this unholy suspicion on Pope Francis is doing to the faithfuls now. SedeVacantist are having a field day and the flock is filled with fear. Many people have been filled with so much stories of doubt, that they cling unto Catholicism on strings as thin as cob web, we do not help matters when we give them reason to fall out completely. Believe me if not for the lord's assurances, I for one was already in scruples. It matters not what you say against him, if he came to promote the things you just mentioned, your NL attacks will not save the situation. So far, he has not taught error, and to be sincere, he has challenged me to further studies of the CCC.

Please for the avoidance of doubt, I am not a champion of the novus ordo, my association with FSPP, various literature and personal experience will not let me do that. Yet I stand by the church's decision that the novus ordo in itself is good.However, It is prone to abuse more easily than the one earlier.

Ubenedictus: actually dear i'm very happy i chose my words carefully i never said the above, the above didnt come from me.

If i'll touch the issue at atall, i'll say sacrosantum concilium was clear enuf, d novus ordo wasnt a codification of the vetus ordo it was a 'reform', under a 'new awareness'. Parts of the vetus ordo totally disappeared and d signs and gesture disappered, prayer were removed and new prayer were formulated, it was a "reform". It was truely a 'new order of mass'.
I'll leave it there.

A little bit of history may suffice here:

"Towards the end of the eighth century Charlemagne ordered the Roman rite of Mass to be used throughout his domains. However, some elements of the preceding Gallican rites were fused with it north of the Alps, and the resulting mixed rite was introduced into Rome under the influence of the emperors who succeeded Charlemagne. Gallican influence is responsible for the introduction into the Roman rite of dramatic and symbolic ceremonies such as the blessing of candles, ashes, palms, and much of the Holy Week ritual.

The recitation of the Credo (Nicene Creed) after the Gospel is attributed to the influence of Emperor Henry II (1002–1024). Gallican influence explains the practice of incensing persons, introduced in the eleventh or twelfth century; before that time incense was burned only during processions (the entrance and Gospel procession). Private prayers for the priest to say before Communion were another novelty. About the thirteenth century, an elaborate ritual and additional prayers of French origin were added to the Offertory, at which the only prayer that the priest in earlier times said was the Secret; these prayers varied considerably until fixed by Pope Pius V in 1570. Pope Pius V also introduced the Prayers at the Foot of the Altar, previously said mostly in the sacristy or during the procession to the altar as part of the priest's preparation, and also for the first time formally admitted into the Mass all that follows the Ite missa est in his edition of the Roman Missal. Later editions of the Roman Missal abbreviated this part by omitting the Canticle of the Three Young Men and Psalm 150, followed by other prayers, that in Pius V's edition the priest was to say while leaving the altar".

Do you dispute any part of the above? does it not show the continued removal and additions that took place earlier? Now see:

"The Roman Missal that Pope Pius V issued at the request of the Council of Trent, gradually established uniformity within the Western Church after a period that had witnessed regional variations in the choice of Epistles, Gospels, and prayers at the Offertory, the Communion, and the beginning and end of Mass. With the exception of a few dioceses and religious orders, the use of this Missal was made obligatory, giving rise to the 400-year (4 centuries) period when the Roman-Rite Mass took the form now known as the Tridentine Mass.

It is unfair to make the new mass look like it is not based on what is. Certain things may Change, but it has been changing earlier and the substance still remain same.

Source : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Tridentine_Mass

Ubenedictus: actually that isnt wat is expected, the pope is infallible on faith and moral only and is fallible on displine, he is the supreme judge in d church affair and thus i'm expected to obey i'm not expected to agree with all judgements in his name. I think stry made d same point wen discussing wit italo abt marraige.

Keep bringing up issues. I said his judgement is final, you said it is not, yet that what is expected is that you "obey". Do not play with words here and do not bring stryk and Italo discussion into this. If discipline is all it is, why are we creating much noise over it? I say again, Let the Pope do his Job.

Ubenedictus: i knw where it came from, i simply made the necessary clarifications.

There was no need for the "clarification" if I never made such claim in the first place.

Ubenedictus: nipping a problem in the bud will be punishing dissent which as i said never happened.

that u quoted fr alphoso simply confirms what i said earlier, u seem to knw little about the situation. Fr alfonso is one of the dissenters who wasnt punished. He isnt the spokesperson for the congregation fr allesandro is the only spokesperson. The report of 80% is actually bogus.

From all I have gathered, there was more than what is released to the press, I have asked you if you're privy to the commission's report, so far, I take it that we both are getting our info from here and there. If 80% is bogus, you may give your figure. So far I have seen 80% and I have seen 61%, they are all in the majority.

Ubenedictus: A long article, bt it may give ya an idea of wat happened.

(Rome) Following the exposure of Vatican Insider as the mouthpiece of the rebel group in the Order of the Franciscans of the Immaculate, it is aptly trying to limit the damage for the sake of balance. This includes an interview with the only official spokesperson of the Order, Father Procurator General Alessandro Maria
Apollonio. Father Apollonio expressly rejects the attempts to reduce the provisional government of the Order by the
Congregation of Religious to "internal tensions" that have nothing to do with the
traditional Roman Rite.
From the interview it appears that there is a small minority in the Order, which is known to be led by Father Alfonso M. Bruno, but
that this alone would not have been able to be effective. The input of six brothers in the
Order to the Vatican Congregation offered but others obviously can find, against better
judgment, a welcome pretext to act against the Order.
The interview also reveals a certain weakness of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, whose significance seems limited. The Commission had previously
approved the procedure of the General Council of the Order with the introduction of Vetus Ordo. However, this official confirmation had no relevance for the Congregation of Religious.
Some things the matter of the Franciscans
of the Immaculate, are so fundamentally different, the two questions are reminiscent of the final stages of officially frozen
unification talks between the Society of St.Pius X., and the Holy See. The Superior General of the SSPX, Bishop Bernard Fellay,
spoke in the fall of 2012 that "signals" had come from Rome, which made ​​an agreement seem possible. Indeed, such was
already virtually certain at Easter 2012. But then everything changed. The "conflicting
signals" were interpreted as a synonym for a power struggle back in Rome back ( see
separate report ).
Some seem to suggest that the Order of theFranciscans of the Immaculate constitutedan example to be directed against the Old Mass. Still unclear are the exact relationships, such as whether it would deter other orders, also to discover for
themselves the traditional form of the Roman Rite, or whether the examples were even targeted against Ecclesia Dei communities. In tradition-bound circles, the
scope of the attack quickly organized a protest that has been recognized and grown, which does not seem to have unimpressed Rome.

Did I not say it earlier? It depends on who you're listening to.

However, Father Angelo Geiger,a former general delegate of the FFI in the United States,had this to say:

“The restrictions on our community are specific to us and have been put in place for reasons specific to us,” Father Geiger stated through his Mary Victrix blog.

“Pope Francis has not contradicted Pope Benedict,” he said. “The visitation of our community began under Pope Benedict, and the commission was recommended by Cardinal João Braz de Aviz, who was appointed to the congregation by Pope Benedict.”

According to Article 3 of Summorum Pontificum, "Communities of Institutes of consecrated life and of Societies of apostolic life, of either pontifical or diocesan right, wishing to celebrate Mass in accordance with the edition of the Roman Missal promulgated in 1962, for conventual or "community" celebration in their oratories, may do so." Benedict's motu proprio goes on to state, "If an individual community or an entire Institute or Society wishes to undertake such celebrations often, habitually or permanently, the decision must be taken by the Superiors Major, in accordance with the law and following their own specific decrees and statues."

Father Geiger said, “What is being reported in the press and what has actually transpired within our community over the course of a number of years are two different things."

You have not shown me how well you know the case as to condemn the Pope's action.

Ubenedictus: actually it is very fair to date the traditine mass to the 6th cent as it was compiled from the usaged of pope st gregory. It has been in the church since then with its organic developments, the trent document are clear, trent simply codified the already ancient canon. U may very well chech again. Actually d said canon predates gregory as it is also found in d writting of st ambose.

Please be careful here Uben, are you saying the novus ordo did not stem from the one before it? that it is an entirely new set of prayers and acts fabricated anew by Vatican II?

Ubenedictus: it may be interesting to note that thus far pope francis hasnt done anything regarding the scandal. All the rule to stop nd prevent d scandals were all made and implimented by benedict, now the scandals have past and we have a pope wu gives the media a reason to interprete catholic doctrines as ever changing.
Dat is a huge face lift.

hahaha, the scandals just happen to fly away...but under his watch...hahahaha. The last on changing catholic doctrine is entirely yours, you admitted he hasn't taught error earlier.

Ubenedictus: I'll bite my tongue a little. actually all priest universally have the right to celebrate under both forms. There simply is no way of justifying withdrawing dat right, closing seminaries and usurping d superior just becos 5 priest do not want their superior to impliment a papal decree.

do u care proving this, i certainly dont know a religious order that practices obedience better than the franciscans. Would u tell us why congregations wholely obedient to d church would nt b in full communion. (for this u nid to provide proof of heresy and or apostacy and or schism)
yeah recommendations are enuf to justify the above. It would also be interesting to note that wen pope francis was still arch bishop he refused to impliment summorum pontificum in his diocese, and mafe sure that non of his priest used their right to d vetus ordo. the question isnt palatability but whether or not is is just.

if by 'turmoil' u mean 5 priest, besides the order doesnt have big for his actions to be question. A whole community lost their right to used the vetus ordo and their seminaries were closed simply becos they followed laid down rules.
Dat is weird.

1. Each Bishop, in fact, is the moderator of the liturgy in his own Diocese (cf. Sacrosanctum Concilium, 22: “Sacrae Liturgiae moderatio ab Ecclesiae auctoritate unice pendet quae quidem est apud Apostolicam Sedem et, ad normam iuris, apud Episcopum”).
2. Dear Uben, do not sound like an alarmist, the community lost their right to vetus ordo, but they still have novus ordo, what big deal if the novus ordo is acceptable as well. You make it sound like they were excommunicated or something.
3. Again there was turmoil in the congregation, leading to protest letters to Rome. A commission investigated it, made findings and consequently made recommendations. Except you are privy to this commission's document, you do not know the whole story.