₦airaland Forum

No man, I didn't marry her. Though that could have been possible. I'm married now and she remains one of my closest friends. She's in the U.K. now, but we still keep in touch.
Where do you get all these stories from about dictionary and so forth? Anyway, no doubt that each of God's messenger will have their crowd. No one is sent to everybody and there is no one that can appeal to every one. For instance, as much as I respect Oyedepo and Adeboye, I can't go to their churches. I know they are Men of God, but I just wont flow in that settings. Yeah, I went to Household the times I was in Lagos, and I got blessed spiritually, financially and every way you can imagine.

I was one of his strongest critic (himself and Idahosa), until I met someone who was a member of his church. I just knew she was a christian, but I felt she was different. The way she thinks, talks and her manner of life was different from other christians I know. This got me to get closer and I found out she was a Householder. This knowledge prompted me to do a further study of the man and his teachings. I got tapes from her and listened, and ended up asking God to forgive me for my wrong perceptions and possibly some unlearned and negative things I had said about the man. I got so blessed from those teachings and received a totally different perspective that remains a blessing with me forever.

I'm off to Naija next month. I should probably pick some up.

Dearzi,

Thanks for your sincere concern about the Man of God and his Church. I'm sure you are praying for him daily for wisdom, knowledge and understanding. He can sure use your prayers at this juncture.

Anyway, while you may not understand what he is saying, I believe a lot of people do. And if you truly follow his teachings, he tends to repeat himself, saying the same things in different ways. This is my opinion, I find no better teacher of god's word than him. I live in the United Staes and have listened to a lot of preachers, and i dare say that he is absolutely uniques and gifted in the revelation of the scriptures.

I hope you are joking by the Davinci Code issue. Maybe you should read his book: "The last Outcast". It is written out in simple english and I'm sure you won't have a problem understanding his english. When you are done, tell me if you still think the same way about what you said.

His Church should be in good footing with various capable hands to deputise. Unknown to many, Bimbo Odukoya and her husband were trained by him, Anslem Madubuko and a host of other Christian leaders in Naija today, were trained by Okotie. So he has always done a good job with raising capable hands. He just does not believe in setting up branches like many do. He does not believe a Pastor should be subject to another Pastor, simple.

You do not understand his ministry and his mission better than he does. he has made it thus far because of doing what he believes is right even when people call him crazy. Wish him well, and stop talking as if you know better than he does.

Ajisafe,

It is obvious that you have an anger management issue which is typical of any one in the evil religion you profess. I'm not surprised because the author and finisher of your faith was a sword wielding peadophile who has no regards for life.

When you are able to control your anger and have read some posts such as "What lessons Moslems should learn from the Davinci Code," then I will more than defend my statements. If you choose to continue calling people names, then you are on your own. We've had sane discussions up until this time without a hot-blooded Jihadists coming in to heat things up.

TV01,

Does God say we should live without a plan? In fact, the Bible teaches us to plan a lot in whatever we do, but that we should have God in the plan.

Of course, I am content. Contentment is relative. My real treasure is not in gold, but in the Lord. There are a lot of rich people who are les content than the poor. contentment is a state of mind and lack of it is a plague that affects the rich and the poor.

I have one question for you. Would you rather be rich or poor? To me, poverty is not equal to righteousness, and you can prove otherwise if you feel the Bible says so. By the way, the Bible say, "Whatsoever we desire, whenyou pray, " If your heartfelt conviction is poverty, then it will be hypocritical of you if you don't pray to be poor everyday.

Over to you.

Free,

Don't bother yourself with the needless. Are you going to start tracing the origin of every word? To the Christian, Amen just means "So be it". Christianity is the great confession, and we affirm what we have heard and agreed upon in prayer by the word 'Amen'. You will find several use of the word in the New Testament which I'm sure predates the encyclopedia that writer alludes to.

By the way, what are those writer's sources of the information he boldly diseseminates? Do you believe all that is written there? Assuming there was a god being worshipped by that name, Amenities or whatever, the amen we speak has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Okay, let me say this unequivocally.  I plan to be rich, infact, super-rich.  Though Jesus said indeed that "the poor you will always have with you," but I don't plan to be amongst those.  I plan to be amongst those that cater to the need of the poor instead.

From Jesus parable of the talent, I get the notion that I am God's steward and the job of a steward as defined in the parable, is to create surplus.  I plan to create surplus from what I have so that as Paul said, "And God will generously provide all you need. Then you will always have everything you need and plenty left over to share with others." -  2 Corinthians 9:8.  

While there is danger of compromise when you are rich, no one can deny also that you stand even greater chance of compromise when you are poor.  If that is the case, I personally prefer the temptations of the rich.  I have been poor ones, and it wasn't fun.  Not that I am super rich now, but I know I don't wake up each day wondering where the next meal is coming from and not knowing where to sleep tonight.  That is a great blessing.

Made the change

With so much cries today about too much emphasis on money and prosperity in the church of God, I would like to sample the opinion of supporters and critics alike on this trend.  Is money evil?  How much emphasis should be placed on prosperity?  Are Christians meant to be poor?  Did Jesus and the Disciples led by example in being super poor or super rich?  Should properity be taught in our churches in the first place?  Does money make you a better or worse christian?  Would you rather be rich or poor?  How does God make people rich if He wants to?
Let the debate begin.

While giving an explanantion to 4get_me, kindly tell me the position of a Bishop too. 1 Timothy 3:1 "This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work."

Pkrix,

Can you change the wording of this post to read FRESH Democratic Party instead of (Fresh Party). You tend to lose the intended meaning of the words the way it's written.

Guys, what is the role of a President? Is it not administration? As a president, you choose people into your cabinet who are capable of handling the various sectors, and you ensure they've got the backing of the state to achieve the articulated goals.
How many economic theories did Obasanjo himself postulated and implemented? I dare say none. If we've seen any improvements in the economy, it is because he chose the right people and he provided the atmosphere for them to work.
Our next leader should be such an administrator. He should be fearless and should not have any favors to give to anybody. Whether he is a green horn or not doesn't matter. If you can know the basic rudiments and possess the skills to lead 20,000 people, you will have no problems leading 20 billion. all it takes is appointing more people and delegating authority.

This is a difficult topic to handle, but having benefitted indirectly from one of such programs (section , I have come to the following conclusion.
There is really no problem with the programs introduced by the Government. In fact, I believe Nigeria needs to put such programs to work to help the teeming masses.
The problem I find is the average balck man's mentality (usually black americans). Beacuse many of them feel like they have been victims of the society due to their color, they tend to consider such programs a right. Like Bill Cosby said, the section 8 program was designed for "You to move in, move up and move out".
The black guy here needs to be really educated to rise above mediocrity and to know that there really is dignity in labour. Other immigrants are moving into the US and thier average standard of living is rising higher than the 'sons of the soil' because of this mentality.
In my opinion, people like Rev Jesse Jackson is perpetuating this lifestyle in the black community for political gain. The more the blacks are not doing well, the more voice and standing he gets. His appraoch so far has failed and a new voice like Bill Cosby and speaks the truth is what the black community in the US needs to get out of the social malaise they are now in.

Omoifa,

How many countries require prayers before the start of a public function? If you pray on Jesus name, won't you have moslems cry foul and the other way round? And if you acknowledge both faiths, what about those who don't believe. The bottom line is that Nigeria is a secular nation and should be treated as such. What unites all of us is our Nationality and that is invoked through the National Anthem.

The issue of compromise whould be left to the man himself to deal with. If he has not been corupted up until now, I don't believe he can ever be. Comparing him to the other Reverend is not applicable here because they are two diferent individuals. Not that I agree that Rev Nyame was corrupt, 'cos I have no proof of it and I can not in good conscience accuse any body without a substantiated proof.

The game of politics can be played without soiling your hands in dirt. Jesus told His church "occupy till I come." We are to shine in the midst of darkness and as dark as politics is, we should make a difference. I understand your fears, but a man of character will stand up against corruption whichever way he can, without compromising his integrity. He didnt exchange ghana-must-go bags to get NDP's nomination, and he has been known to maintain his integrity up until now. Leave him in the hands of his conscience and his God, and lift him up in prayer, that should be our role in this.

Abeem,

I do understand your sceptism which you presented in an accomodating way, but I think you under-estimate the kind of training that a cleric undergoes.
First, about politics. I have heard Okotie say, and I do agree that "politics is all about negotiation". Negotiations require wisdom and I believe, wisdom is not bestowed on you via experience and age alone. If it comes through expereience and age, I believe all our recycled politicians and maradonas would be the wisest people in naija.
Talking about different hats. Can you tell me who came across to you as the best candidate in the last election? Who had a concise plan for moving naija forward? Who was most articulate and classy amongst the lot? I dare say it was Chris Okotie. We have seen him, as a musician, a celebrity, a Pastor, a social advocate, an opposition leader and now a Politician. Whose had more hats on than that?
While I may not necessarily believe that he will become the President, I do believe he gives hope to our younger generation. Our best brains and hands have been battered into submision and are not ready to get invovlved in politics. But in him, we see a highly detrabilised Nigerian, who is out to rekindle in us all a nationalistic sentiments.
I do not believe he is out to promote any particular agenda. His chosen deputy at the last election was not only a wowan, but is a moslem. M.K.O. Abiola, a moslem was one of his closest friends. Did you know he donated N1,000,000.00 to Abiola for the June 12 electon? Have you researched to find out the people he has honored in his yearly Karis Award? If you do this, I am sure you will see him as a Nigerian indeed.
By the way, he said when he is president, no prayers in a christian or moslem way will be said at any functions. It must just be the National Anthem, and on goes other agenga. In any case, if you go to his church, the last thing they say before the Grace is the National Anthem. Tell me what other church does that in Naija.
In short, I do believe he is a Nationalist with a spiritual calling. His obedience to his calling should not be counted against him.

Jagunlabi,

Gnostism is not Christianity, and none of the Gnostic books was ever believed nor claimed to be divinely inspired. By the way, the book of colossians written by Apostle Paul was directed mainly at the fallacy of gnostism.

I never claimed that the Church is to be built with Peter as the foundation. Quite to the contrary. The foundation of the church is the knowledge of the truth that Jesus Christ is the Son of the Living God.

I will advise you acording to Paul's word in 1Co 4:6 - "And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another."

all your claims about mary magdalene, and recently, Judas goes beyond the scriptures and are not consistent with the Old Testament prophecies. And for your information, anyone present during Jesus crucifixion couldn't have been a disciple. If your gnostic friends were present as you seem to suggest, it only shows that they were never Christ disciples 'cos it is written: "I will strike the Shepherd and the Sheep will scatter". Peter desertion of Christ is consistent with that.

kinglarry,

If you read the passages you quoted in context, the rock Jesus was talking about is the confessions of Peter, that Jesus is the Son of the Living God. Everyone who comes to believe this and confesses it while making Jesus their Lord, will become a part of His Kingdom.

Jagunlabi,

Where did you find the prrof of your asersions? Outbursts like that will never make people take you seriously.

Ib,

I'm not mad at you. I'm just pissed by your unfounded allegations.

It is obvious that you know nothing about Chris Okotie other than what you find in the gossip newstand. Before I get into some details about some of his various contributions to our social life, let me tell you what I believe Nigeria needs to take us to our Promised Land.

We need a Leader and not a Politician. we need a proven Administrator of human and material resources. We need a compassionate and selfless individual who has shown that he does not seek a religious or ethnic interest, but our national interest. We need a person whose word is his bond, and one who is not soiled by the corruption that exists in high places now. We need a brave person who is not afraid to make decisions, and I believe Chris Okotie fits this bill.

He's had polical ties before now, and he was one of M.K.O. Abiola's closest friend, and was a player during the June 12 debacle. He did not make much noise about this, but that is true nevertheless.

Are you aware that Chris Okotie now runs a healthcare system in Lagos similar to the one here in the United States? For a token monthly fee, you get health care services for your entirere family in the participating hospitals for free. This works like the health insurance in the United States. Are you aware of his support for various schools, less priviledge and his annual award to exemplerary Nigerians who the society has forgotten and are in financial mess.

A friend who visited Nigeria recently told me she went to Chris Okotie's Church and he introduced a church worker who just got married. Chris Okotie asked him if he had a car, to which the guy said 'No'. Right there and then, he raised up money for the guy to buy a car, and a pledge of N2,000,000.00 was raised for him. This is in addition to the fact that he's been known to help pay people's rent who were on the verge of being kicked out of their homes.

His Administrative skills is what you find operational in many churches in Nigeria today. No matter how you look at it, no one can deny the fact that the Church, as a whole, is the best run institution in Nigeira today because of adminitrative and human resources skills.

Unless you feel that Nigeria's next Pesident should be corrupt as they come, then I see no reason why Okotie should be disqualified. Obasanjo has tried, but the issue of third term is a complete immorality. Nigeira was here before he came and it will remain after he goes. he should not deceive himself that things will fall apart when he leaves. God is the ruler over all nations, men who make themselves available are His tools. the tool doesn't have to be Obasanjo. Let him take a well deserved rest and bow out when the ovation is loudest for him.

Ib,
I think it is fundamentally distasteful to suggest that the Man of God is using the Church tithe and offering for his political project.  Your claim cannot be substantiated in whatever form, and I think if you are an honorable person, you will think of the actions of others in honorable terms.
You talk about starting an NGO.  How many have you founded or actively support?  Do you think you've done more good than that man has done?  Do you know how many projects he is involved with in terms of his social contributions?  If you are ignorant, go get educated.  I know no other person in Nigeria whose generosity and social responsibility beats that of Chris Okotie (I stand to be corrected on this). 
Whether he becomes President or not is not the issue here.  The issue is did he stand by and watch his country descend into chaos when God has endowed him with the ability to make a contribution to the upliftment of the country. 
While your ignorance may deceive you into saying his contribution should be limited to prayers, a lot of us know and believe otherwise.   I do believe he is an evidence of Faith in Action. 
Would you believe if you had been told that Obasanjo would be the President of Nigeria right from prison?  And what of the case of the Patriach Joseph?  He was not even an eligible voter in Egypt, yet he became the Prime Minister.  As a Nigerian, I guess your pysche has been so battered by these Politicians that you've confined yourself and the whole of Nigeria to damnation.  But there is a crop of Nigerians that believe in moving mountains and are ready to change the status quo.  You either jump on board, or be left behind.

Well,
A classic case of excommunication is what the PFN did to Chris Oyhakhilome. This is in order with divine revelation. However, I believe you are really talking about a believer within a church. The following passage from 1 Corinthians gives another basis for excommunication.
"1 I can hardly believe the report about the sexual immorality going on among you, something so evil that even the pagans don't do it. I am told that you have a man in your church who is living in sin with his father's wife. 2 And you are so proud of yourselves! Why aren't you mourning in sorrow and shame? And why haven't you removed this man from your fellowship? 3 Even though I am not there with you in person, I am with you in the Spirit. F21 Concerning the one who has done this, I have already passed judgment 4 in the name of the Lord Jesus. You are to call a meeting of the church, F22 and I will be there in spirit, and the power of the Lord Jesus will be with you as you meet. 5 Then you must cast this man out of the church and into Satan's hands, so that his sinful nature will be destroyed F23 and he himself F24 will be saved when the Lord returns. 6 How terrible that you should boast about your spirituality, and yet you let this sort of thing go on. Don't you realize that if even one person is allowed to go on sinning, soon all will be affected?

7 Remove this wicked person from among you so that you can stay pure. F25 Christ, our Passover Lamb, has been sacrificed for us. 8 So let us celebrate the festival, not by eating the old bread F26 of wickedness and evil, but by eating the new bread F27 of purity and truth.

9 When I wrote to you before, I told you not to associate with people who indulge in sexual sin. 10 But I wasn't talking about unbelievers who indulge in sexual sin, or who are greedy or are swindlers or idol worshipers. You would have to leave this world to avoid people like that. 11 What I meant was that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a Christian F28 yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or a drunkard, or a swindler. Don't even eat with such people. 12 It isn't my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your job to judge those inside the church who are sinning in these ways. 13 God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, "You must remove the evil person from among you."

nferyn,
Can you tell us what is true and what is false in the Old Testament? Your arguments sounds so much like that of Prophet Mohammed. The only way he was able to have so many followers (apart from the house of the sword) was by claiming the Bible had been corrupted.
That is such a convenient route to go in order to reach a pre-determined conclusion.
No peoples on earth have their history well documented as the Jews, and to suggest that Moses may not even be real, sounds close to the new arguments I hear about Jesus today. Many are saying their is almost no evidence that Jesus ever existed. Same story from the same crowd.
But assuming the stories in the Book of Esther are true, will you still maintain the same stance?

Hi Fluffy,

I didn't say God is both male and female. Can you get the issue of sex off your mind a bit? God is Spirit, and does not have the flesh that you and I have. Our sex is expressed through our body, which God does not have. So how can you ascribe an attribute to Him that He is incapable of having? Remember that the Bible says in Christ, there is neither male nor female. Christ is the image of God.

Hey Fluffy (I like your name),

Here is my earlier post. I hope it eases your confusion.

“…, At about seven o’clock, each group began to address the Council on its findings. Eight of the ten groups were of the opinion the minister is a representative of God, and since God is a man, it would be against divine revelation to ordain a woman as a church minister. The ninth group, made up of delegates from Africa and Asia, were then called to present their position.

Sam Uyota rose from his seat and approached the podium. There was a short round of applause, which ended when he took the microphone.”

“My Lord and your excellencies. My name is Sam Uyota. I am a delegate from Africa and I have been asked to speak for my group.” There was another short round of applause. “The matter before the Council is a very simple one. The Bible gives us a clear answer to the question we have been asking ourselves all day. I think the issue here is not whether women should be ordained or not but whether God is a man or a woman. Most of the groups have agreed that God is a man. I say also that God is a man.” There was another round of applause. He stood still for a while, not saying anything but just staring into space. There was an uneasy silence. After a while, he continued to speak.

“I say with emphasis however, that God is not male. The concept of manhood was introduced in the Book of Genesis, in the second chapter. Before then, the Lord had said, ‘It is not good that Adam should be alone,’ for so the original language testifies. Most of the bibles in our hands have translated that verse thus, “It is not good that the man should be alone,’ but if it is understood that the word for man, ish, is not found in the Bible until the 22nd verse of the second chapter of the Book of Genesis, then the confusion will disappear immediately. What did God mean when He made that statement?” He paused again for a moment. There was silence in the hall.

“Did He mean that Adam was lonely? We, as bible teachers, know that could not be possible, for Adam was perfectly made. Then what does that statement betoken? Let us translate that statement into the modern way of speaking. This is what God said. ‘It is not good that Adam should be different or separate.’ Different from who? The animals? The birds? The fish? I say no, because there was nothing in the garden that had the same image as him. Who, therefore was he being compared to? The answer becomes clear when we understand that the first Adam was a figure or a type or a shadow of the last Adam who was to come. God was looking at the last Adam. His eyes were on the future. What did He see in the last Adam that the first Adam did not have? He saw that Jesus Christ was going to have a wife.

“A wife that would be a part of Him; who would come out of Him. Jesus Christ would be the head and she would be the body. That is why God took a rib, the token of the covenant, from Adam’s side, and formed Eve from it. The Lord returned Eve to Adam, and a new creation was formed. It was called marriage. Adam called her woman ‘because she was taken out of the man.’ The words man and woman appeared for the first time because of marriage. A woman, biblically speaking, represents the part, while the man represents the whole. God is the whole and all creation is the part. That is why God is called a man. Jesus Christ is called a man and the Church a woman, though it is made up of male and female members. The reason is that Jesus Christ is the whole and we are the part. For in Him we live and move and have our being.

Therefore, if we say that we will not ordain women because God is a man we will be guilty of blasphemy. What we are saying, in effect, is that God is male. For if we ordain males and reject females, are we not in great danger of blasphemy?” He stopped and looked in the direction of the trustees.

“My lords and excellencies, if we reject female ministers, we must also reject male ministers and ordain only married male ministers. For it is the married male who is called a man. I urge you to prayerfully consider what I have said.” He walked away from the microphone and off the podium. There was no applause!, "

Fluffy,

Going back through the post, I realise you refer to God as a male. This is absolutely not true. Read my post above from 'The Last Outcast'. God is not male, but God is a man. These are two different concepts. Man means the whole, while male has to do with sex.

Fluffy,

Our reference to God has 'IT', 'He' or 'She' just shows how limited we are as humans to describe the infinite. You need to understand that our vocabulary, no matter how extensive can never describe God in His absolute sense. Besides, we are unable to fathom God in His essence with our finite mind, and we try to explain what we are unable to comprehend with a limited tool called words. Can you understand our dilemma then?

Male and Female has to do with the flesh. Our spirits are same whether they are dwelling in a male body or not. The Bible refers to the female body as a weaker vessel, but the spirit is same in essence. Our spirits are created in God's image, and this is neither male nor female.

Reverend,

I can see that y'all are digressing from the issue you raised. I hope you started this thread to get real answers to your legitimate question. If so, here it is: The image of God is not male and/or female. Rather. the image of God is simply CHRIST. The Bible says so in 2 Corinthians 5:5 "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. "
Male and female has nothing to do with the image of God. If you recall that the animals that were created before man were also created as males and females, but they were not created in God's image.
I guess some could also get confused by some attributes ascribed to God in the Bible. I'll explain all that subsequently.

Kimba,

Our mortal lives in itself is fleeting. Isn't love and passion part and parcel of our real life? The book of Solomon reminds us that God indeed created sex and He cares about what goes on in our bedrooms. Spirit, Soul, Body, the Bible has got one thing or the other for it to make it complete.

dominobaby,

This is something that has already being revealed. The problem is whether we accept what is being revealed.