₦airaland Forum

Belloti,

All we can do is to bring out any portion of our scriptures that seek to support violence and terrorism. On my part i challenge any muslim or christian to state a verse from the Holy Quran that support violence and terrorism.

Surah 9:29 "Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection."

Dear Reverend,

Yours is a reverend without a Revelation. Of you it is written "If the blind lead the blind, shall not they both end up in the ditch?" (paraphrase). If you do not consider the Bible the word of God why waste your time and the time of your lost sheep setting up a church? Though I'm convinced that your establishment is only a church by name and not in character, but please, have pity on those blind folks even if you dont have on yours.

You just started a thread on this forum recently about God and Erection. In it, you quoted profusely from the Bible and you attributed what you said to God. Are you not confused and trying to confuse others. Do you just pick and choose what your parochial mindset wants from the Bible as if you are in the supermarket? God has given you a choice. It is either ALL or NOTHING.

'All Scriptures is given by inspiration of God, ' 'Men pf God wrote as they were moved by the Holy Ghost, " Which of these scriptures don't you understand? Or is it becasue there is no refernce to sex in them that you chose to discard them. Of you it is written "You go to the ends of the earth to make a disciple and you end up making such twice the son of hell that you are." (paraphrase). I feel so sorry for you. It is obvious that "you are ever learning but never coming to the knowledge of truth."

Apostle Paul puts it beautifully: "I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greeks."

Belloti,

I strongly disagree with your views. There is no way to know what the religion really teaches unless we examine the practices of the founders. We can all argue that the followers today are not practicing the tenets of the faith as they should. For instance, some moslems will tell you Osama is their hero and is a true muslim while others will tell you he only hijacked a peaceful religion to serve a political purpose. Each one will quote the Qu'ran in making their point. So how do we know who to believe amongst them? Well, what did their founder practice? That should give you a clue.

On the other hand, we've seen Christians that practiced slavery, that went on crusades and the lot. Almnost every Christian today will tell you that is totally unchristian whereas those who commited those attrocities believe they were doing the right thing. To know who is right, all we need do is look at the teaches and way of life of Jesus. Whataver is not consistent with His lifestyle is surely extrabiblical.

For the person waiting for quotes from the Qu'ran about violence, I'm gonna give it to you soon. Is it not hypocrital to say that when you know your book advocates violence?

At the time he became a Pastor many of you said he should've never stop his blossoming music career. Now that he is running for the Presidency you myopic group are singing the same song. I'm glad he never sought advice from people like you who will only say that the best thing is to maintain the status quo.

xkape,
I am quite impressed by your introduction to this topic.  It is quite enlightening and I'm sure a lot of Christians have no clue about the civilization that existed here on earth before Adam came into the picture.  I believe you probably didn't go in-depth for want of space and probably due to lack of relevance to the topic at hand.
That been said, I think there are some things that need to be clarified.  While i can't tell you when hell was created, the Bible at least indicate that it is located in the ground.  Aside from this, there are 3 compartments altogether that the Bible mentions are in the ground Ephesians 4:9.   Two of those are mentioned in the story of Lazarus.  Hell or Hades is where the rich young ruler found himself while Lazarus found himself in the bossom of Abraham.  I don't believe Lazarus found himself in Abraham's Bossom because he was a direct lineage of Abraham, rather it was because he was also a man of faith.  Remember that Abraham is called the father of faith.  Hades/Hell from this story is a place of torment and Abraham's bossom is a place of rest.
The third compartment will be found in the Book of Jude and the Bible called it Tatarus.  This is the place where all the disobedient angels are being held.  These angels were locked up "in chains of darkness" after the flood of Noah because they tried to pollute the human race. 
As for Abraham's Bossom, it is no longer populated because Jesus took all the occupants with him to heaven during his ascension.  This is what the Bible refers to in the Book of Ephesians 4:8 as "He led captivity captive."  You will also remember that when Jesus was risen, people saw a number of this old testament saints in and around Jerusalem.  Jesus took them with Him on His triumphant entry into heaven.
obviously, there's a lot to talk about. but I'll give more gist later.

Okay guys let's get something straight. It is possible to believe in a thing and not live up to it. In this regards, both Christians and Moslems are guilty. I do not for once beleive that Christians always live and maintain peace with their neighbours, the inquisitions and the crusades testify against that notion. On the other hand, we do not need to look far to see that a lot of Moslems are violent and intolerant, and they support their actions with quotes from their holy book.
So my question is, "How do we know for sure what the respective religion really teaches and advocates?" I have mentioned it somewhere on this forum that the best way is to look at the Founders of this religion and see how they lived. In this case, we will have to examine closely, the lives of Mohammed and Jesus. For those who disagree with Jesus being the founder of Christianity, we might extend the search to the lives of people like Apostle sPaul, Peter, James and John.
Does any one think this action is unfair?

This forum is just getting the more interesting.  I think we are seeing the birth of a new 'Last Prophet' for the gods.

Afeni,

but are quick to come up with excuses for why the "supposed" strongest being in existence is unable to control creatures he made.

I understand your dilemma with respect to the alarming state of affairs on the earth.  Perhaps before you blame God for everything, why don't you go watch the film 'Bruce Almighty' and tell me what you learn from it.  I believe the film captures God's position quite well.
God will not control you.  He gave you a free will and he intends to keep that will free.  We all have the choice to either choose Him or reject Him, do good or evil etc,   God will be violating His principles and laws if He forces us to get in line.  The time is coming however, when we all will have to account for what we did with the free will and opportunities he gave us here.

Deb,

Just as a matter of curiosity, were you at the meeting called by Satan? How did you get the minutes of the meeting? Don't tell me you are one of the demons that graced the occasion

Logical,

Noble death is the type of suicides that is common (Japanese type of suicides) based from cultural beliefs, so not considered really a problem.

Thanks for your additions and corrections. I am aware that the Japanese actually kill themselves 'for honor', but let's face it, the only reason to kill yourself is when you do not see a tomorrow better than today. The man who kills himself for honor thinks there is no way his honor can be revived tomorrow, hence his decision to end it today. And by the way, how isn't that a problem? Any culture that doesn't think suicide is a problem needs updating. Religion sharpens our moral standard and it will do so in that society as well.

Nigeria was not recently rated, that ratings was long ago.

The survey was carried out about 2.5 years ago and to my knowledge, no new study has been done since then. I believe the results are still valid today as they were then. Anyway, until a newer study is done that proves otherwise, Nigerians are still the people you will most likley find smiling in the crowd.

Fimmy,
If you call Mohammed a perfect man, what do you call Jesus?
What makes him perfect if I may ask? What good has he done that no other man has done? You deceive yourself, my man.
To claim that he is a perfect man would mean you plan to be like him, right? How can you aspire to marry so many wives? How can you aspire to marry an underage person? How can you aspire lead a war against people whose faith differs from yours? I see no perfection in the man. He is no different than the average sinner on the street who needs the blood of Jesus to make them whole.

While you continue to bother yourselves about what essentially should be a Christian's problem, maybe you should focus those parochial racial thoughts to Islam?
Why does Islam require you all to visit Mecca at least once in your life time?  Why must you face mecca?  Why must the Arabic way of life have to be imposed on all peoples who you have as adherents?  Why is the Quaran written in Arabic?  Why are you all asked to learn arabic?  
The racial superiority complex to me comes somewhere from the sands of Arabia.  Let's take it home to Naija.  Hausa and Fulani moslems who are more closely related to the Arabs look on the southern and western Naija moslems as less Islamic.
'Remove the log in your eyes before you can see clearly to remove the speck in others.'

Logical,
I don't think we should look at the issue of Iraq invasion in isolation.  While some claim it has to do with oil, I really can't say.  If it was due to oil, then there must have been a miscalculation somewhere because it is now going for record price.
America takes action to protect it's interests and that of their allies.  The Iraq war wouldn't have come about if there wasn't an invasion of Afghanistan because of 911.  911 wouldn't have come about if America, under Clinton, had taken out Osama Bin Ladin when it was easier to do so.  Saddam didn't help himself when he used chemical weapons on his citizens (the kurds).
The issue of Iran will eventually lead to a military confrontation.  America is not really bothered about the developing of nuclear weapons.  These cannot be fired to reach american soil.  Europe should be the one losing sleep over this.  However, America is more concerned because of Hezbolla who are sheltered by Iran.  This a a terrorist organization and they have the means to hurt america bad in the near future.  That is america's major concern.
Just to correct a misconception.  America may have had a christian foundation, it is by no means a Christian State.  Saying that an american action is a christian action is totally ignorant.  As Christians, we are fighting here to keep our faith alive in the public sphere.  Unlike Moslems however, we are doing it through constitutional and peaceful means like voting, demonstrations and lobbying.

Ajisafe,

Can you please read the previous posts and see if there has been any name-calling until you came on board?
On the contrary, you are the one that is ignorant of Chritianity.  Who told you Paul fashioned out what we know as Christianity today?  If you go through the Book of Acts, he was pesecuting the church long before he became a Christian.  At least, we know of 3,000 people getting saved after Peter's preaching on the day of Pentecost.  Paul, like the others was only avessel in God's hands.  Get your facts straight and stop foaming ignorance throguh both sides of your mouth.
If you are a student of the Bible, you will know what happened to Jesus were absolutely foretold.  Jesus Himself said "The Son of Man came to seek and to save that which was lost."  The way of redemption is the way of sacrifice, and the ultimate sacrifice is Jesus' life.
Go back and read the New Testament and tell me if it was only the 12 that were His Disciples.  these were the closest, of all those 3 were even closer and the one dearest to Him was John the Beloved.  
So you try to make excuses for Mohammed's blood thirstiness by saying he led his campaign because he was brave?  Bravery is what we see in Jesus disciples who without sword propagated the Gospel and turned the hearts of many around.  Would Mohammed subject himself to such cruelty in the hands of men for the sake of his blood thirsty god?  I think not.  Rather, he is the tormentor in this case.
If Mohammed is not the author and finisher of your faith, is it Allah (the middle-eastern moon god) who Mohammed was able to disguise as the true God the one who called you to be a muslim?  Stop diceiving yourself.  Shine your eyes, and deliver your soul.

Never have I seen such a defeatist mentality in my entire life.

I think you just have a problem with religion in general, and you are only singling out Christianity and Islam because they are the two most dominant religion. I beg to disagree with you on your statement about Nigerians being defeatist. On the contrary, Nigerians are the most optimistic people in the world. Despite our poverty, we were recently ranked as the happiest people on earth. And guess what? The Japan you mentioned has the highest rate of suicide in the world. Obviously, both communities have some balancing to do.

They have all turned their backs of Orumilla/Oludumare to worship the gods of the Arabs and the Europeans.

So which one of the african gods do you worship?

I do not say there is no bloodshed in christianity. However, Christ who is the author and finisher of our faith never shed a single blood and taught that "those who live by the sword, will die by it." Obviously, some Christians have not lived up to His teachings.

In this case however, the author and finisher of Islam is usually the one in front when it is time to kill. While he no doubt advocate peaceful co-existence, he readily beheads those whose views and beliefs are contrary to his in the name of Jihad. Osama Bin ladin also talk about peace, but is he a peaceful person? His entire personality is view from his actions and not just his words.

Did he kill anyone at all?
From my knowledge of the scriptures, God did not allow King David (whom he called a man after His own heart) to build Him a temple for one reason: His hands have been stained in blood.
I find it hard then that God would allow someone involved in bloodshed to be the sole custodian of faith in Him. What about the other Prophets? What about their writings and sayings? Sorry I digress a bit.

The Love you describe here is the Agape love. The New Testament makes a dinstiction between 3 kind of love.

One of the good definitions I've heard recently about the Agape Love is this. "Agape is the Love called out of the heart of him who loves based on the value he has placed on the object of his love." In order words, Agape is based on value and not on somon's action or inaction.

What about all the Jihad he personally headed? You mean to tell me he never killed an innocent person? What about those killing the innocent in his name?

Belloti,

Did Mohammed followed this rule in all cases too? Did he lead by example or by decree alone? I ask this in sincerity.

May I just put in this thought in regards to Basharu's writing again. By the way Basharu, thanks for being gentlemanly in making that correction.

Are all other Prophets better than the rest of us? I really don't think so. Every man is corrupt and sinful, the difference is that these Prophets yielded themselves for God to use them. God only deals with every man on the medium of Grace. It has nothing to do with a person being good or not. claiming that these prophets are better than the rest of us is saying God used them because they were good enough by God's standard. I beg to disagree with that. I could show you this from the Bible if required.

In fact, I believe there are some godless people today who are more honest, more morally upright and generous than some of us who are faith people. Though these high morals by human standard doesn't equate to divine standard, yet their good acts and lifestyle does not qualify them as God's vessels.

Basharu,

I just thought I should correct you on this.  You don't need to have a R.I.P. in the front of Jesus name.  He isn't dead.  He is Risen.  Hallelluyah.  

For the others: "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment." - Hebrews 9:27.  Each soul will come to know peace or otherwise after the Day of Judgement.

Christianity is a family affair. That's why we start our prayers saying "Our Father, " That said, men have made a religion out of it through administrative means.
By my understanding, religion is an organised system with laid down rules and observations designed to make you pleasing to God.
Christianity on the other hand, is accepting that God is pleased with you through His son Jesus and all you need do is accept His gifts and become a member of His family.

The answer is simple. There are as many churches as there are as many Callings. Your question should be directed primarily at Jesus, and it should go something like this: "Lord, why did you call so many people to do the same job in a different way?"
Please let me know when you get an answer!!!!!!!!!

I really have nothing to say to him.  I noticed he has been the same on every thread.  His is a lost cause.  I would have asked my 3 year old niece to give him a reply, but he still wont get it into his thick head.

Why do you have to travel that far to go to church?  Arent there some good churches where you live?  By the way is that St Cloud or somethin?

Masters Degree in Civil Engineering. Part tion'tme.

I dont blame that fool. I blame Microsoft for making the internet dummy-friendly so fools like him could rant.

I live and go to church in Brooklyn Park. I work in Fridley, so I'm usually within a 10 mile radius between work, home and school except when I go to school @ the U of M.

Dearzi,

I'm actually in the twin cities.

Ajisafe,

I do not even want to give you the honor of a reply. You talk about name-tagging.  Maybe you should go back and find out who started the name tagging on this thread.  Or do you suffer from amnesia on top of your anger?  Kai, I hope you do not have access to a cutlass easily.  You might end up chopping of peoples heads and forget you ever did it.  Onyioshi, Onyiara, Onyikpetese!!!!!!!!!!!

My apologies dearzi. I just checked out your profile and realise we are in the same State of MN.
Check out how we have deviated from the topic.