₦airaland Forum

@rampant,

na waooo,y e be say all this pastors just dey select the fine fine babes to marry?chris get eyes oooooooo

It is only natural to be attracted to beautiful women. Eve was a very beautiful woman even though Adam was the most spiritual being at the time of his creation. That is why I tire for some of our sisters who think looking unkept is a sign of spirituality.

My experience way back in U.I. taught me that even spirotual bros have that soft spot for the most beautiful sisters in the fellowship. Did anyone ever notice how several bros receive visions for the most beautiful sisters while the not so beautiful once never appear in visions? I remember my Deeper Life brothers who date sisters outside their fellowship. It's funny how they insist that their sisters dress as if they were mourning and yet date sisters who know how to look good and trendy.

Let's face it, the first thing that attracts you to someone is not their spirituality. It's usually their carnal leanings.

@oldie,

And I do not owe any apology for that
Would you have preferred me hooting for a Mcaine?

I would prefer you hoot for someone based on ideology and not his race. Supporting Obama based on his race is equivalent to not supporting McCain based on his race. Isn't that a clear manifestation of racism?

While I have my reservations about McCain, I am not under any illusion that Obama is diametrically opposed to my Conservative leanings. I cannot in good conscience vote for Obama. Voting that way will confuse my conscience and will probably hunt me for the rest of my life.

@Iyke-D,

You still never told us what it entails to be a Community Organizer. You seem not to know the meaning of what you consider a great plus to Obama. Sounds like one more of those high fallutin languages that means nothing.

Author?

Author of what? His autobiography. Do you know of any academic work he published? What has he added to the world's knowledge through his papers?

University of Chicago Constitutional Law Professor?

Obama a Professor? Who sold you that lie? It appears you missed out on one more of his titles - messiah!

@Iyke-D,

He is an inspirational orator of the first order, and above all, a great community organizer.

Can you kindly tell us what a Community Organizer is and/or does? How does this qualify one to be President?

@opokonwa,

Did you notice the impact he had on the Germans yesterday?

Are you aware that he took the stage prior to a concert?

@software,

hmmmn, pastors dey sabi search for beautifull women oooo

Abi ke. He has a good vantage point from the elevated pulpit to see not only Angels, but the finest babes

@RichyBlack,

So, you're oblivious of the glaring fact that racism still exists in America?

Of course there is racism in america. There is as much Black on White racism as there is White on black racism. And in my experience, the Black on White racism is more prevalent. It is absolutely wrong however to paint America with a racist brush. If Obama doesn't acheve anything, he has at least dispelled the racist America notion from the rational mind. What obtains in America today is no different from what obtains in other countries. I dare say that Naija is more tribalistic than America is racist. The question is which is more evil?

I don't want to get bogged down on an endless debate on an issue like this. However, if you're willing to let me know what on God's green earth will convince you, then say it. On the other hand, if you've made up your mind to believe what you want to believe, then there's no need debating with you.

You made a categorical statement. I on the other hand, provided reasons why your statement is wrong. I expect you to counter with a superior argument if you can muster any, but it appears none is forthcoming. I make a decision based on facts and experience and you will need to change both to sway my mind one way or the other.

Simple question: Have you ever been convinced that your position in an argument is wrong? If "yes", tell me what conditions were met before you conceded, if "no", make we kukuma fashie - abi no be so?

Could you answer the question first and I'll see how my experience is close to or difers from yours. In any case, this has nothing to do with the topic does it?

@okija juju,

There is nothing wrong with marrying an Indian woman. Race is not a factor in marriage as far as I am concerned. And by the way, the woman is Nigerian and is the same widow with 3 kids that he first mentioned he would be marrying.

@RichyBlack,

Being black in America is a mixed experience.

Same applies to people of ALL races.

The real problem is that some aspects of the system is rigged against the black man,.

I don't believe that. A black man is on the verge of becoming the next president of the United States. What priviledge is greater than that?

e.g., the criminal justice system,

No one picks up a black man on the streets and lock 'em up just because he/she is black. If that were the case, there will be a lot of Black millionaires from lawsuits.

the labor market,

This is so untrue. America is Capitalist country where the major motivation is money and not racial allegiance. A Black man who can prove that for every $1 an employer pays him he will make $10 for the employer, will get work ahead of a white man who can only make $5 for every $1.

education,

Again I do not see how this is true. You care to explain?

and the health system

The health system is privately run in most cases. If you have money to pay, no one ill deny you of services. Infact, ALL health facilites will treat you first whether you show an ability to pay or not. This is a fact.

@topic,

Here are some pictures of Okotie and his fiancee. From the Church website, it appears the wedding is in 2 weeks. By the way, the stories of him marrying Sola Salako or Vien Tetsola were just that - stories.

@topic,

In Die Welt, the German publication, Rep. Thaddeus McCotter, R-Mich., wrote: "No one knows which Obama will show. Will it be the ideological, left-wing Democratic primary candidate who vowed to 'end' the war rather than win it, or the Democratic nominee who dismisses the progressing coalition victory as a 'distraction'? Will it be the American populist who has told supporters in the United States that he will demand more from our allies in Europe and get it, or the liberal internationalist hell-bent on being liked in Europe's salons?"

This publication appropriately defines the many facet of Obama in few and effective words. Couldn't have expressed it any better. The audacity of Vanity rears its head again.

@Davidylan,

lets be candid if Obama were white there'd be no question about who would be occupying the white house in January.

Let's be candid, if Obama were white, he will not be anywhere near the White House.

@Davidylan,

i think there are too many people anxious to criticise Obama to show they are color neutral. I don't support Obama 100% (i can't even vote anyway) . . . but to be frank . . . i'd choose any idiot now over McSame.

So you think the criticim isn't justifiable?

in your assesment.
his supporters think otherwise. they are most important to him. he needs the votes and not your intellectual assesment of his decisions.

Of course I expect such a judgement from an objective observer. to his followers however, Obama the Messiah can never be wrong.

@4play,

McCain travelled to Europe,as have a lot of American presidential candidates in the past. What makes Obama's visit remarkable for its imperiousness is that he chose certain historical landmarks in what is merely a trip to boost his prospects.

Think of it this way,would foreign politicians in their presidential campaigns come to the US and request the use of major US national landmarks as backdrops to their campaigns? That would be,and rightly so,perceived as a slight,demeaning the significance of such places.

No US politician goes over to Europe(apart from Obama of course) and makes such requests either. Its one thing doing it as President,its quite another doing it while you are still a mere Senator campaigning for President.

And in the process, making a fool of himself as the Germans politely declined his request. Wa it not Jesus who said it is better to be invited to a position of dignity than to assume that position and be asked to vacate it? i guess our politicians can learn from Him as well.

@Sagamite,

What rubbish by this Krauthammer guy?

Rubbish?

So what was JFK's achievements before becoming president? What was Reagan's? What was George Bush's (snr or jnr)?

The analogy here is not what was achieved prior to being President but what standing Obama has to arrogate the honours he is seking for himself. Some honours are only deserved by people who has achieved something tangible. Please tell me, what is Obama's in this case? What great thing has he done to think he should mount the podium at the Brandenburg Gate? That is the question.

So it is some great achievement to win over another idealogy (communism)? The classical American arroganism (the good vs the bad), where they are always the good.

Why don't you try and win over an argument with someone on nairaland and see how easy it is. Infact, try find out on nairaland alone, how many people have been persuaded to change their ideologies due to a superior argument or action by another. Get my point?

What is wrong with a man promoting a nice virtue despite him not having developed the virtue? So Obama can only advocate for people to be good in science only after he gets a science degree?

It is called hypocrisy. That is a very bad analogy. Not everyone can be scientists (this is a profession). On the other hand, anyone and everyone can learn a language even without going to school. Is Europe one indivisible country as America?

What an utter slowpoke.

I beg to differ. The Morons here are those who believe everything Obama says without questioning.

@Big B1,

I will be back to address the emptiness of your post. Just like Obama, you have suceeded in saying a lot, without saying anything. The sound byte is high, we can hear the decibels, but there is no distinct message. That is the hallmark of Senator Obama. While McCain may not be comparable in rhetorics, he more than compensates for it in actions. Please note that I am not a supporter of McCain either. I think in both candidates, America is faced with perhaps, its poorest choice in this generation.

@toshman,

however i can't ignore the correctness of obama's foreing policy such as iraq withdrawal, afghan enhancement, time horizon vs time table etc

I think you got it wrong here. Obama is more of time table than time horizon. Bush's policy is actually the time horizon vs time table.

Is this thread really about policy’s or about the trip?

While both can be accomodated in this discussion, the topic is really about Sen Obama's over-inflated ego. he refuses to acknowledge and expressly state that he is not an agent of change. He needs to get a different message across - that he is the product of a change in ameirca rather than being the catalyst of change. The real catalysts of change are people like Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks etc,  What change is he bringing to America? America is already changed, otherwise he wouldn't have had the opportunity to be the Democratic nominee for the President.

Below is an article in the Washington post by Charles Krauthammer. The article is very critical of Obama, and I find it very difficult to disagree with virtually all the points raised. I am really scared that this guy is being set up (or is he setting himself up) for a great fall.

Barack Obama wants to speak at the Brandenburg Gate. He figures it would be a nice backdrop. The supporting cast -- a cheering audience and a few fainting frauleins -- would be a picturesque way to bolster his foreign policy credentials.

What Obama does not seem to understand is that the Brandenburg Gate is something you earn. President Ronald Reagan earned the right to speak there because his relentless pressure had brought the Soviet empire to its knees and he was demanding its final "tear down this wall" liquidation. When President John F. Kennedy visited the Brandenburg Gate on the day of his "Ich bin ein Berliner" speech, he was representing a country that was prepared to go to the brink of nuclear war to defend West Berlin.

Who is Obama representing? And what exactly has he done in his lifetime to merit appropriating the Brandenburg Gate as a campaign prop? What was his role in the fight against communism, the liberation of Eastern Europe, the creation of what George Bush the elder -- who presided over the fall of the Berlin Wall but modestly declined to go there for a victory lap -- called "a Europe whole and free"?

Does Obama not see the incongruity? It's as if a German pol took a campaign trip to America and demanded the Statue of Liberty as a venue for a campaign speech. (The Germans have now gently nudged Obama into looking at other venues.)

Americans are beginning to notice Obama's elevated opinion of himself. There's nothing new about narcissism in politics. Every senator looks in the mirror and sees a president. Nonetheless, has there ever been a presidential nominee with a wider gap between his estimation of himself and the sum total of his lifetime achievements?

Obama is a three-year senator without a single important legislative achievement to his name, a former Illinois state senator who voted "present" nearly 130 times. As president of the Harvard Law Review, as law professor and as legislator, has he ever produced a single notable piece of scholarship? Written a single memorable article? His most memorable work is a biography of his favorite subject: himself.

It is a subject upon which he can dilate effortlessly. In his victory speech upon winning the nomination, Obama declared it a great turning point in history -- "generations from now we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment" -- when, among other wonders, "the rise of the oceans began to slow." As Hudson Institute economist Irwin Stelzer noted in his London Daily Telegraph column, "Moses made the waters recede, but he had help." Obama apparently works alone.

Obama may think he's King Canute, but the good king ordered the tides to halt precisely to refute sycophantic aides who suggested that he had such power. Obama has no such modesty.

After all, in the words of his own slogan, "we are the ones we've been waiting for," which, translating the royal "we," means: " I am the one we've been waiting for." Amazingly, he had a quasi-presidential seal with its own Latin inscription affixed to his lectern, until general ridicule -- it was pointed out that he was not yet president -- induced him to take it down.

He lectures us that instead of worrying about immigrants learning English, "you need to make sure your child can speak Spanish" -- a language Obama does not speak. He further admonishes us on how "embarrassing" it is that Europeans are multilingual but "we go over to Europe, and all we can say is 'merci beaucoup.' " Obama speaks no French.

His fluent English does, however, feature many such admonitions, instructions and improvements. His wife assures us that President Obama will be a stern taskmaster: "Barack Obama will require you to work. He is going to demand that you shed your cynicism . . . that you come out of your isolation. . . . Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual, uninvolved, uninformed."

For the first few months of the campaign, the question about Obama was: Who is he? The question now is: Who does he think he is?

We are getting to know. Redeemer of our uninvolved, uninformed lives. Lord of the seas. And more. As he said on victory night, his rise marks the moment when "our planet began to heal." As I recall -- I'm no expert on this -- Jesus practiced his healing just on the sick. Obama operates on a larger canvas.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/17/AR2008071701839_pf.html

@Ibime,

Yeah, he wants a private jet - just like Paul wanted a private boat when he was travelling around abi? Or just like Jesus wanted a private donkey for all his trekking through Israel - these conmen should be exposed for what they are. This is sickening.

The same Jesus that asked for a colt/ass that no one as ever sat on? Please translate that to today and try to imagine its implications.

@Davidylan,

I asked you a simple question. Is one soul that gets won to Christ through the use of that $20 million Jet worth it?

@dhaewood,

i accuse no man,your intuitive mind must tell you d truth, don't be a dogmat, in nigeria everythig a pastor does is right,we say GOD say they should do it that's final justification,

Is this a tacit acknowledgement that you cannot back up your claims with facts?

@dhaewood,

You are making accusations and expecting me to provide answers for you. Please back up your asserions with facts. What did Ceasar use and what did jesus use? You wanted to provide comparisons and this is your opportunity to state some facts.

@dhaewood,

did jesus had anything equivalent to private jets during his days?

Please tell us, what do you think is equivalent to a jet during Jesus' days. When that is done we can then begin to do some comparisons.

@davidylan,

where i dey since? Uncle Tayo's stuff i wanted to reply to has been overtaken already. Chei.

I thot it was God's message to hesitate before you post that has overtaken you ke!

Anyway - there is no sensible defense for a $20m jet. You can argue from now till Christ comes.

Let me ask you this. If the bible indicates that this entire world and all its riches and kingdom is not worth the value of one soul, would you say the jet is worth the money paid for it if one soul is won through using that jet to travel for evangelism? Hint: The answer to this is YES or NO.

@debosky,

I don't believe the jet should be bought on the basis of 'anyone in the ministry needing it will use it' - such a large and costly investment needs to have a more sound basis in my opinion with more detailed financial planning.

Let me explain what i meant by the highlighted phrase above. I believe it was in response to what I wrote earlier. The jet in my understanding of it being a ministry tool is not just for the exclusive use of the MOG alone. Rather it is meant for the use of the Ministry as a whole. The cost implications will not just be limited to what it takes for the MOG himself to travel, but to what extent it will help the Ministry as a whole.

If Adeboye doesn't need it and someone else within the Ministry does, then the jet just as a tool that it is must service that need. For instance, my church jet was reccently used to transport missionaries to the Phillipines. it was alos used to send food aid to Myanmmar. These were not directly used by the pastor, but it was used for the work of the ministry. That is what I am talking about.

@kay-pawpaw,

what an example for the likes of Oyakhilome, T B Joshua, Okotie etc

How can you be putting T.B. Joshua in the picture when we are talking about MOGs. Take your time o before I go Gospel gangster on you!

@4Play,

This is not just about cost-benefit analysis even though it is a valid consideration. The convenience and flexibility that you get from a private jet cannot be realised with a commercial airline. Besides, the jet won't be for his sole use but for the entire ministry. anyone and everyone who needs it for the use of the ministry will have it. It's that simple.

Insisting that he should use a commercial jetliner is like saying why should he use a private car if commercial molues are available. Cars, jets, bicycles, donkeys, foot-wagen and money are all tools and should be seen and treated as such.

@archbishop,

This has nothing to do with whatever church you worship,
It is wrong for him buy PRIVATE JET with people's money.
Some people in that church can't even pay their children school FEES, but they contribute to the church.
Christ didn't live like this,

Now I know your problem. Because it is called PRIVATE jet does not means it is a private property . The Jet,if purchased will be for the ministry.

@Tgirl4real,

Tayo-D, we don't validate things basedv on what we think but on what scriptures says. Nothing supports RCCG vision in the bible. Since, the discusion is getting out of hand, I shall rest my case at this juncture.

Of course the Bible is the final authority. The problem here is "how readest thou?" I see absolutely no basis for you to call the man a thief. A Jet, like your car or bicycle is just a tool. These are the things the Bible refer to as what we "use" in the world. the biblical injunction to those who use the world is "not to abuse it". if you can establish any abuse through the salient points clearly outlined by debosky, then you have a case. until then, please learn to use the scriptures scripturally.

@Tgirl4real,

Tayo-D, its your turn to answer.

You want us to analyse the motive behind the purchase of Jet. Firstly, when asked, the motive will be to furtherance the work of the ministry becauce he has branches all over the world. Can you give me scriptures to substantiate the vision of RCCG to build churches on every 5mins drive.

I find something to agree with you in this statement. I personally don't see where the Bible teaches that a pastor can set up branches like we find in many cases in naija. However, you could have an evangelist or someone who stands in the office of a Prophet or Apsotle who needs to go around a lot to preach the Gospel.  Pastor Adeboye clearly stands in this role and needs a reliable and confortable means of transportation to go to and fro.

there is nothing wrong with vision or an aspect of his vision for that matter. While Davidylan is concerned about not enough churches, you are concerned that there are too many. Remeber that the earth must be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.

@gabe_logan,

Where are you getting your info from - The Gospel according to Barnabas? I shudder when peple who have no biblical understanding or foundation starts telling us tales to bolster their non-biblical stance.

@Tgirl4real,

Debosky has provided a very clear format to confirming if the jet was needed or not. Do you have access to the kind of information he mentioned which could help you make a rational decision? Or is this all based on your subjective opinion?

@Tgirl4real,

1Ti 6:11  But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
1Ti 6:12  Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

This is where people just go on a tangent and lose sight of the intention of scriptures. The key to the passage you so took out of context is in verse 6 - But godliness with contentment is great gain. Contentment is what the bible teaches there and only used the issue of those who seek to be rich at all cost as an example. Unless you want to tell us that only contentment is a virtue that only the poor can possess, then you have no point.

Riches are no problem. If God can give us is Son, what is a jet? Which one is more valuable to you, the life of your son or a jetliner? Isn't the jet a tool for propagating the Gospel? While feeding the poor is important, the preaching of the Gospel is even more important. Didn't Christ say He came to preach the gospel to the poor? The words of Jesus readily comes to mind here in dealing with this situation of feeding the poor and/or spending money as needed to preach the Gospel. Jesus said: "This you should do without leaving the other undone."

@Tgirl4real,

I can see that Copeland is really spreading the gospel. Someone that preaches that God is the biggest failure sure is preaching the gospel. He has preached a lot of times that we don't need Jesus anymore to get to God. We can pray to God directly.

Please, tell me how he is preaching the gospel.

go back and listened to whatever message you think you heard Copeland say the above and you will find out that you quoted him out of context. Kenneth Copeland is my Pastor's pastor and he viits my Church not less than twice a year with his wife. His message this past year has being on nothing but Love and his emphasis remains on Jesus Christ.

@Davidylan,

this is a fraudulent gospel. End of!

Here you go again. This is the same line of argument we had some time ago where I had to show you what you claimed is not in the Bible. While you humbly accepted that you were wrong, you have simply gone back to the same default stance which has no biblical basis. I don't have the time to waste discussing a very clear biblical injuction.

In any case, here's my stance:

1. The poor you will always have with you.
2. The Gospel must be preached by any means and every way available.
3. Those who preach the gospel must be sustained by the Gospel.
4. The church is only meant to provide for the needs of widows and orphans - the NT is clear on how to determine those to help.
5. You make yourself a hypocrite when you demand from people what you do not practice yourself.

not again!   I just lost an entire rebuttal.

Perhaps God is subtely telling you to think more before you post