₦airaland Forum

@SeanT21,

Did You call McCain a Gentlemen. Do you not know that McCain left his first wife, who was in the hospital at that time, to marry Cindy McCain after he came back from war. Hell No he ain't no gentlemen.

I used the word gentleman with respect to this campaign. Please go back and verify that.

@KarmaMod,

Abeg take am easy o. It appears you have brought into this thread some hard feelings from another.  

@RichyBlack,

Now, your assertion that those who should receive the apology are dead, is laughable at best. That apology was not just for slavery, but also for Jim Crow laws, segregation, state-sanctioned terror and gross miscarriage of justice. Many African Americans who lost loved ones through lynching are still alive today. They've suffered and the US government should apologize to them. Many who suffered from all sorts of institutionalized racism, injustice in the courts, police brutality, evil medical experiments, etc., are alive and need to hear this apology.

I hope you are aware that Obama too is not for apologies nor reparations! That being said, I think you misunderstand me. I am indeed unapologetic about the fact that the children are not responsible for the sins of their fathers. So asking the children to apologise for the deliberate actions of fully grown men is ridiculous.

However, I mentioned that Congress may offer apologies on behalf of its body that legislated and upheld those segregation laws. The body as an entity is guilty while Americans as a whole are not. In my discussion with some White folks, they feel really pissed off for any govt to apologise for them. Like the guy said, "No one in my family tree ever owned slaves nor practiced segregation as a lifesyle, so why should I be bundled together with thos who did"? that is a valid point.

And come to think of it, will the apologies and reparations extend to Africa? 'Cos in the true sense, it is not only those who were taken away as slaves that suffered, but also those who were left behind.

Lastly, I will like to know exactly how that apology will change the lives of the average Black man out there.

@topic,

While I detest most of Obama's policies, I do agree with him a;most 100% of the time when the issue is about the black community. I think he's made the right call on this.

@BigB1,

But to me, it is obvious that what you have against Obama is personal.

Do you know the meaning of the word 'personal'? There is no doubt in my mind that you would have called me racist if I was White. I can see you've taken a good, or is it bad lesson from Obam's book. Focus on the personalities of those whose opinion is different from yours rather than attend to the issues. I leave you to continue following your Messiah. May he lead you in the path of righteousness.

@Davidylan,

McCain has "stood up to" Bush simply because he knew he'd need such a situation in his present campaign.

Why you are doubting his intentions is beyond me. He stood up to Bush to solve a problem. Please tell us where Obam ever did that. And why do you thik they call McCain a maverick? He never toes party lines but follow what he thinks his best for the country. At this point where many are talking of reconciliation, no one can pull it off better than McCain. Obama is highly polarising.

Can you candidly tell us that offshore drilling would 100% solve America's energy problems? Are you telling us that McCain is smarter than every other past president and senate who refused to remove the ban on offshore drilling? America already has more than 110 nuclear power plants, the second largest source of electric power behind coal so what is new about McCain's stance?

Offshore drilling is one step towards solving the enrgy crisis. Not only should we drill offshore, but we should go to ENWR and utilise the shales in colorado as well. The shales in Colorado alone will supply the US current oil demand for over 100 years. Nuclear power needs to be expanded. It has does not contribute to the green-house effect, and is as safe and clean as anything you can imagine. They wont even let us use the coal we have in abundance abundance due to the environmental wackos. A coal plant here in MN was just changed from coal-burning to gas burning because of environmentalists pressure. Not only does this raise our power bills, it makes us more dependent on foreign sources. How sane is that. Google big Stone II and find out wha the same environmentalist nut-jobs are doing. And by the way, do you think our refusing to drill offshore will 100% solve our energy needs?

This is conservative whinning. It is apparent that the vast majority of Americans would rather have the right to terminate unwanted pregnancies.

That is not true. And that some want it does not make it right.

McCain choosing to stick in Iraq for 100 years is your evidence of "tough on national security"? I shudder to imagine another 8yrs of Bush's campaign of "invade all our enemies".

I know you are passionate in your debates, but I never thought you are dishonest until now. As usual, the plan is to twist what someone has said to make it fit you political leanings. Tell me, if Al'Quaeda continues to run around for a 100 years, would you say we stay on the offence or wait till they strike us again?

Simple . . . because America should never have gone to Iraq in the first place. Now the country is a mess that will take more than a decade to fix. Hurray to McCainolitics.

And the country would have ben messier is Obama had his way and prevented the surge.

What would you do if every company you applied to after you graduated from school demanded 10yr experience from you? Its easy to just mouth republican talking points.

I am sensible enough to apply for an entry-level position and not for the role of the Chief Executive. Get the point?

and has McCain told us how this will work? How is this different from what we have at present?

What's the govt business with the market forces? The govt should move out of the way and let the market play itself out. If the govt should have any role, it is just to ensure that corruption is not perpetuated. The current system is fine if left alone.

The black community is not in the gutter because of welfare, it is there because it has steadfastly chosen to remain there! Whites are also on welfare, why are they progressing and the black community is not? When McCain eliminates this how does he propose to help the black community?

The single biggest factor killing the black community is the current welfare system. When you encourage laziness and idleness, this is what you get. when you make people depend on the govt, you create a dependency class just for the purpose of having a reliable voting block who need you to win in order to continue getting that welfare. This is the Democrats plan.

Better to overlook this.

Just as we overlooked it when he played the race card on Bill Clinton. he is trying to do the same again and it wont fly.

And? What does this have to do with who should be president? Bush had conservative judges too . . . what new invention did they bring to America?

you are smart enough to figure this out. The last few judgments from the Supreme Court were 5-4. The next President's choioce will determine the fate of homosexual marriage and the likes. Liberal judges have overuled people's choice at the ballot to keep marriage between a male and a female. The case is heading to the Supreme Court. Depending on the judges, the people's wish, through a democratic vote can be overuled or confirmed by a few justices. Can you see why this is important now? and by the way, Roe v Wade is also on its way to the Supreme Court.

@Darfur,

you can have this debate from now till the end of time. i can't convince you and you can never ever convince me. it's a useless debate in effect. i just put up that post to let you know that there is another side of the coin.

Of course there is the other side, but there is nothing palatable about it. Obama has nothing to offer as far as I am concerned. he has taken good advantage of his position and that is commendable. As for voting for him, I see absolutely no reason why I should.

vote mccain, it's good for you. he may win. good for him. perhaps he deserves it, perhaps not. i don't care. obama is good. sure. don't berate him just b/c you want mccain to win. the boy is good.

I do not berate him. If anything, you guys are the once berating McCain. What I have said is Obama hasn't proved his worth and if anything, my estaimation of him has been damaged a bit this week fron his utterance.

as for hillary . . .
i hate the witch of new york . . . slip of click if obama picks her, this election is over. but then obama's death will be assured. so let her loose and let us rest. obama will rest after this election, win or loose he has made an impact in the world. that to me is great enough.

Stop hating on her, she's done nothing wrong. It is her fear of being labeled racist that kept her from grilling Obama till it was too late. I'm sure she regrets never going for the kill. She kept by the books and she should be commended for her effort. She would have given McCain a run bettr than Obama.

tayo you are watching too much fox news

don't get hannitized or billo'reillyzed

Funny enough, I do not have the programming on my cable. i down sized a while back and Foxnews wans't tha important to keep on.

@dafur,

1. obama is a better uniter. he has pulled a greater coalition of americans than john.

What greater coalition if I may ask? He's more associated with polarising figures like Rev Wright, an American terrorists whose name I can't remember now etc. If anything, McCain is known more as a centrist with broad support amongst the independent. So far, McCain's tying with Obama based on the Independent votes. Wait till the conservatives turn out to vote and you'll see a landslide.

2.offshore drilling will not solve america's problems today but they will create huge environmental problems. the debate should be on. na hasty decision on that yet. ask the people in gulf coast of america(louisiana area) the offshore drilling would affect their environment.

All these lies about offshore drilling affecting environment. please tell us, how many oil was spilled during Katrina? I rest my case.

3. democrats are pro-choice, not pro abortion. get the difference. let the women be able to decide for themselves. if God gave man a choice to love him or to sin, who are the republicans to deny the choice to women. and by the way, what do the reps offer when the baby is born? policies that favor the rich. and children born out of wedlock usually belong to the poor.

pro-choice? So does every man have a choice to kill another when inconvenienced? The US imbibed a biblical principle that punishment must fit a crime. The death penalty must only be adopted when a crime is demed very heinous and the power to take a life must only be granted by the State after such heinous crimes are established. How many of these aborted babies commit any crime worthy of death. Why can't they set up adoption centers where the unwanted babies can be taken rather than summarily executing them?

4.john is tough on national security eh? b/c he promoted the surge eh? but he wrongly sent them to iraq in the first place. can't tell shia or sunni, can't get the chronology of the surge vs sunni awakening. and can't define victory in iraq. gimme a break. de guy fought in vietnam, good, he's a hero, good. but he has never commanded a war. so give me a break. even the bush foreing policy is toeing obama line in iran, withdrawal etc. security my foot.

McCain didn't send nobody to war, Bush did. So how many wars have Obama either fought in or commanded? The same guy who can't acknowledge the vistory of our troops over A'quaeda in iraq is the same one who should be their Commander-in-Chief? I don't think so. One thing is for sure, McCain and Obama had opportunities to vote on the surge. mcCain got it right, Obama did not. Obama never had the opportunity to vote to go into Iraq, however he has continually voted to fund a war he said he's against. Hypocrisy at its apoche.

5. so obama doesnt want victory for US eh? ebelebe igba . . next please

Absolutely. he is more interested in getting out. A rigid 16 month withdrawal plan that pays no attention to what is on ground is not a vistory strategy.

6. john is experienced. in what? in the failed leadership america wants to change? the only person with enough experience to go for presidential election is a president who is going for re-election. get it

Unless you are telling us that experience has no value, Obama's resume is very thing while McCain's is not. What leadership has failed? The Democrat's whose leadership ratings of the legislature are far below Bush's?

7. obama is for socialism eh? read your history about former soviet union. that is what socialism is. the republicans said hillary's healthcare was socialists eh? like that in the UK huh? lol. abegi. try and know what socialism is before you believe the republicans oh.

It's absolute socialism. When people are given stuffs for free irrespective of whether they earn it or not is socialism. Europe of course is more socialist than America is. You don't need science to understand that.

8 healthcare freedom of choice. great. where the poor have a choice to either die at home or die while begging for treatment b/c they can't afford healthcare una de try

99% of the time in America, a poor man is the cause of his poverty. the private sector is and should be helping those that can't genuinely afford health care. Besides, that is what insurance is there for and if the Govt will hands off this industry totally, prices are bound to fall due to competition. govt regulations and control makes matters worse. And by the way, why should the govt use my money to be doing mr nice guy? the govt's purpose is to govern, not welfare.

9. obama will raise your taxes eh? so you earn above $200,000 a year then you can't complain with a little raised taxes. b/c he wont raise taxes for anyone who earns below that. please tell that gist to the white appalachian republican illiterates from kentucky

What you don't understand and your Messiah is failing to tell you, is that Bush's tax cut will soon expire and taxes will rise across board for everyone. Obama spared you the detail that
his promise to not raise taxes does not take into account the rise that will occur when that tax cut expires. obama has thrived on the many ignorance of his followers and you guys are too blind to see this.

10. john will look into every detail of welfare for effectiveness while obama wont look into every detail of welfare for effectiveness okwa ya john is either more compassionate or more efficient than barrack huh? tayoD . .

That is exaclty what mcCain plans to do. Every govvt program will be scrutinized and any one with pork money will be vetoed. That is how Washington shuld be run.

11. mccain na gentleman and obama na agboro yet for the campaigne McCain brought out 2 different plans for attacking obama's german visit. one for if he goes to the military hospoital and the other for if he does not go places blackman in between 2 blondes . comparing a harvard grad to 2 celebrity, rich, dumb blondes eh. tayo wetin be the definition of gentleman for ya dictionary

Number one, the reason why Obama did not visit those Soldiers is because the cameras will not be allowed on that visit. So you see, everything is for showmanship as far as he is concerned. That is the definition of celebrity and he falls right in-between britney and Paris.

12. justice is a debate. who is right and who is wrong. this debate will go on till the end of life when God will be the judge.

But McCain shares my definition and interpretation better than Obama does.

@BigB1,

This is absolutely absurd; you must be from another planet.

Is that all you have to say? As usual, no substance from the Obama Camp, just empty rhetorics.

@BigB1,

Are you telling us that you're supporting McCain? If so, Could you please list your reasons?

While I am not an ardent fan of McCain, my vote goes to him far ahead of Obama for the following reasons.

1.  If America needs uniting, he stands a better chance of doing that ahead of Obama. he has shown over time that he puts country first ahead of his Party. That is why he has stood up to the president many times and reached across the party divide to get things done. Obama is very liberal and always toe his party line even when it is against the nation's interest.

2.  John McCainis for offshore drilling, nuclear power and all renewable power resources. Obama is against drilling and nuclear power and told us yesterday we should keep our tire pressures intact and fine tune our cars to bring down the price of oil. That is not a policy.

3.  John McCain is pro-life whereas Obama encourages abortion at will. He said if his children makes the mistake of getting pregnant out of wedlock, he wouldn't want them "punished with a baby." Those are his real words and I shudder at the implications. He regards babies as "punishment" and can easily destoy innocent lives due to some inconvenience. Now what does that stand say to young kids?

4.  John McCain is toucgh on national security while Obama is not.

5.  John mcCain thinks its important that America wins the Iraq war while Obama thinks its more important we get out fast.

6.  John McCain has proven experience, loyalty and character, while Obama's has in reality about 5 months experience in the Senate, and his associations are suspect to say the least.

7. John McCain is for Capitalism while Obama is for socialism.

8. McCain wants to maintain a freedom of choice with health care while Obama wants to nationalise it.

9.  Obama will raise my taxes while McCain will not and will rather eliminate pork spending in washington.

10. Obama, like the Democrats will continue and expand the welfare system that has kept the black community in the gutter for years, while McCain plans to look into every detail for its effectiveness.

11.  Obama plays race politics, while McCain has been a gentleman.

12.  Obama's choice of Justices is too liberal, mcCain's choice are conservative.

I love to learn something new.

I hope you have now. These are just a few in a long list.

@RichyBlack,

It is sad that many Africans look down on African Americans in their hurried bid to lick the white man's ass while climbing up the ladder towards the so-called American dream.

And it is a pity that you are so quick to condemn your fellow Africans when you do not know where they are coming from. To be honest with you, I have suffred more discrimination here in the hands of black than wiht Whites. I was racially addressed by Whites only 2 times, but I can count at least 5 times that the so called African Americans have adressed me racially. To tell you the truth, they hate African immigrants as much as they do Whites.

Why should anybody make light of the horrendous atrocities meted out on African Americans for over 300 hundred years? This apology, though belated, is perfectly in order. And insensitive Africans (especially those idiotic and arrogant Nigerians) should either commend the move, or shut their f-cking traps!

Of what point is the apology I ask? Those who need the apologies and those who committed the discriminations are in the grave. They can offer apologies on the behalf of those who practiced slave trade and on behalf of the law-makers who upheld discrimination laws. But the average American is not racist, neither do they segragate and they should not be regarded as doing so.

This is the main reason Africa is in so much darkness. We dislike ourselves to the point that when the white man apologizes for slavery, some fools make a jest of the whole affair!

You take things too far. Kobo was laughing to a separate issue altogether. You need to chill out a litle. Take a break and go get so chilled cool-aid.

How many of you psychopaths laughed when then German president, Johannes Rau, apologized for the Holocaust in 2000?

No one laughed at either slavery or the holocaust. Its dishonest to accuse anyone of what they did not do.

None of you morons laughed, you couldn't! Why?

Now you are calling people names.

It's because in your demented minds, the white man's life is more precious than the black man's life. Much more than six million Africans died during the roughly 300-year period of slavery, segregation, Jim Crow laws, injustice, state-sanctioned murders and assassinations, tyranny and lynchings.

And please do not forget to include the fact that 100s of thousands of Whites also died fighting to end slavery. Does that count for anything. Human life is equally precious, skin colour on the other hand means nothing.

But no! Your deep inferiority complex will never make you reconcile these truths.

What truth? You've only presented half-truths so far.

What do you have against our African American cousins? What? You think you're better off than them? While your hopeless Nigeria crumbles under the weight of corruption, African Americans are making powerful strides in America.

I thought America was against them. How come they are making powerful strides? You mean the people that were taken away as slaves are doing better than those that have lived in freedom? I wonder who is responsible for that. By the way, African Americans, detest African immigrants. I have some theories why it is so, though I cannot really prove it.

You think your culture is "better"? Rubbish! Nigerians shoot and kill each other with impunity on Nigerian campuses! Aren't those students raised in that your so-called "better" culture? Your politicians rape your wealth in billions of dollars! Aren't those kleptomaniacs products of your "better" culture? I dare conjecture that your "Nigerian culture" (whatever that means) is no better than the African American culture. You think you're smarter? I laugh you all! Don't let "white lies" fool you! African Americans are as smart as any other group on this planet! When Charles Reason was a professor in 1849, Samuel Ajayi Crowther had not seen the four walls of a university! Wait! There is an African American Grand Master! Nigeria has none! You think you're prettier? When Beverly Johnson was gracing the covers of Vogue, neither Agbani Darego nor Oluchi Onweagba was born!
Hip-hop and rap (let's leave out the all-too-popular jazz for now), powerful products of the vibrant African American culture, have swayed your Nigerian youths, and dominated the Nigerian musical scene!

Arrogant Nigerians! Rubbish!!

Are you trying to perpetuate the divide or tear it down? I really don't catch your drift here.

SeanT21,

The trip That Obama made to Those foreign Countries was influenced By McCain. He accused Obama of having no Foreign Experience. So Obama toke the trip to interact and meet with world leaders. It is not his fault that The World Loves Him? He can not help what the world think of him

What do you mean he accused Obama? That is no accusation but a statement of fact. You just have to twist and misread everything that McCain said. I get it, you do not like him. He is indeed a world celebrity like Paris Hilton and Britney spears. I can't compare him to a celebrity like Bono, buecause Bono's got more substance and not only articulates but have a track record of successful actions.

How are You going to suppost This Idiot John McCain. He says he has foreign Policy but He did not even know That Iraq and Pakistan Do not have a border in common. He flip Flops on everthing. Just Last week He wanted to Raise Taxes, This morning on MSNBC he back out of the statement.

That is what liberals and their likes are wont to do. Reduce every argument to insults. Call him whatever names you want, McCain is going to be America's next President. McCain and Barack had same opportunity in the Senate to support the counterinsurgency plan that has led to a drastic reductionof violence in Iraq. Guess who made the right call - McCain. Though Obama cries he was against the war from the very beginning. That was easier to do when you were not on the Senate, even though he has voted to fund the same war over and over again. What a hypocrite.

Obama did not have to use Race as an issue. FOX were the ones that did it.

You must be from another planet, or have you taken Obama has your saviour such that you cannot even see the games he is playing. He played the race card on Bill Clinton who is on record declaring that Obama labeled him a racist. Bill even went further to say Obama did it intentionally to win a political advantage. last I checked, Bill is not a Fox News contributor. So what do you make of the following Obama's statements.

1. Calling his grandmother a typical white person who is prejudice.
2. White people clinging to their guns and religion, with antipathy towards people who don't look like them.

McCain is another Bush clone.

Last time I checked, McCain stood up against Bush's choice of Judges, he initially stood against Bush's tax cut and has consistently criticised the way the war is waged. Please tell me one issue that Obama stood on principles and against his Party's parochial interests.

His attacks against Obama has no substance.

What attack if I may ask. McCain is only toeing the path that Obama did. Obama has been campaigning with the message that McCain is another Bush, even though this is a lie. Why do you think they call McCain the maverick? In cany case, McCain paid Obama back in his own coin by comparing him to Paris Hilton and Britney Spears, and this comparison is much more apt than McCain to Bush.

He calls himself a war hero. The last time I check his plane got shot down and he was taken in as a prisoner. HIS JOB WAS NOT DONE!!

I can see you have been so influenced by the Democrats that you belittle the sacirfices of our war heroes. Let me give you an assignment - go find out what happened after he was shot down and tell me if that is not worthy of honour. This is so typical of you guys. Obama recently too gave kudos to every body but our troops in regards to the violence that has been curtailed in Iraq.

I can not wait to see how McCain is going to face Obama in the debates to come. WHEN HE TALKS, I FALL ASLEEP!!

It is Obama I pity. He ran away from a no-holds-barred town meeting with McCain instead choosing to campaign through the delivery of prepared speches and asnwering questions that were approved by him before hand. Now he is seeking to do the same with John McCain. We wee see the empty suit he really is when direct questions are tabled to him. The Republican debates were much more interesting thatn the Democratic ones anyway - it was much more intellectually stimulating.

@SeanT21,

It is clear That McCain and His Cabinets are so damn desperate. They are accusing Obama of all these foolish things like Raising Gas Prices. How the hell did he raise Gas Prices?

No where did they accuse him of raising gas prices excpet indirectly through his toeing his Party position of blocking the drilling of America's domestic oil. Can someone tell me any other nation who deprives itself of its natural resources apart form the US? And it is all because of these Democrats who are under the strranglehold of the environental wackos.

They are comparing him to Paris Hilton and Britney Spears. What does this have to do with the Politics?

You are smart enough to see the link, unless of course you choose to deny it. Obama is no more than a celebrity - all noise no substance. Can you imagine the guy saying today that all Americans need to do is tune up their cars and put air in their tires and we would have saved as much oil as we would have got from drilling. Can any of you his supporters defend such a statement?

Desperate Measures calls for Desperate Decisions

Obama and his media fans are surely desperate. McCain has caught up with him on all polls condcuted despite Obama's celebrity trip around the world. Obama is now so desperate that he has begun to play the race card. This past week alone and as recent as yesterday, he declared that the Republicans are out to declare him unfit for the presidency just because he does not look like other Presidents on the dollar. This is so shameful. His accusation that Bill Clinton was racist got Bill so angry and he rightly declared that from memos he's seen, Obama was planning to use the issue of race from the very start. This is the guy you all are saying is above board?

Obama should not pick HC as his running mate. Picking Hillary shows that he is weak and Can not stand alone. Its time for him to move forward.

Of course Obama cannot stand alone. He needs the media to continue to prop him up and protect him form tough questioning and hostile audience. He declined John McCain's invitation to Town Hall meetings where questions will not be vetted and could come from anyone. Now he is asking for modalities in the debates. This guy is an empty shell.

@topic,

Members of Congress this week approved a measure offering the country’s first apology to the black community for more than two centuries of slavery and for the segregation laws that entangled the US South well into the 1960s.

That's one of the reasons why I can't stand the Democrats. They have basically used the Blacks in the US as a political tool to achieve political ends. It might interest you to know that the guy who moved the motion is a White Democrat who is running against a strong Black Republican in the coming election. He feels his position is threatedned and the next thing is to play the race politics.

I ask, of what use is an apology? My children are not responsible for my actions and should offer no apology on my behalf. In moving the motion for apology, on the road to reparation, what apologies and compensations will be given to the 100s of thousands of Whites who fought, bled and died to end slavery in the US? This is a part of the story that never gets told.

This whole apology thing stinks to high heavens with rotten political posturing by the Democrats. I am simply appaled.

@Huxley,

I get your drift. But where is the principle under which slavery is immoral? The bible goes to great lengths to condemn some very harmless behaviour but is silent on the moral issue of slavery. In fact, it does give instruction on how to treat slaves. Should it be condemn under Leviticus 19: 18?

There is nothing wrong in owning a slave the way the bible supports. Like Lady puts forth, it is more like the Housegirl, Houseboy we have today and not the evil slavery witnessed in the 19th century. The main reasons why people were slaves in those days was because of debts. People become slaves so they could pay up the debts thy owe. That is why the bible mentions freeing a slave who pays his/debts. The guiding principle that governs all relationship is LOVE. That someone is your houseboy/housegirl/slave does not make them less a human. They ned to be treated with respect and given their rights. Think about these bible principles and tell me if they do not apply here:
* Do not muzzle the oxen that threshes the corn
* A laborer is worthy of his hire

Well it depends who is taken as our "neighbour". There is simply no moral debating and agonizing over the issue. Why would the bible say "Love your neighbour" and in almost the same breath give instructions on who to take as slaves?

Does love prevent you from having Butlers at home?

I say again, under what principle is slavery immoral?

Slavery in the sense of sevitude to pay back debt isn't immoral, but slavery as we saw in America and Europe is absolutely immoral because it violates the principle of love.

And these are the laws dictated by god himself. Check these out;

Exodus 21: 17 "Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death."

Exodus 20: 13 "You shall not murder."

There is no confusion about these laws at all. Again let me share a secular scenario with you. It is against the law in the US to kill, but the State carries out the death penalty. In the NT, the Bible says God gives the State the power to carry out punishment, this is the same scenario we see in the OT. No one can just kill randomnly due to grievance, rather the State will order the execution after an investigation (ever heard of the Urim and Thurim in the OT)?

@Huxley,

It don't matter whether I got a brain or not. In fact, I think there's a big void up there. With what little grey cells I have got left, I manage to ask questions that you guys have proven uniquely incapable of answering. So it can't really be a handicap having only half a brain as I have.

If you care to read what and digest people's response so far, you will have your answer. But since the answers are not in line woth your preconceptions, you say others are incapable of answering.

Now let me help you a little by explaining some few things. The law as seen in the Bible was for a reason (please study Paul's letters to the Romans). The dos and don'ts mentioned in the OT were not by any means exhaustive. That one situation is not specifically called out does not mean that there aren't principles that should guide our judgement under such circumstances. This is why the Bible talks about the spirit and and the letter of the law.

There is a spirit behind the laws, which we can refer to as principles. These can be seen in secular settings in the form of a constitution. The constituion is never exhaustive but provides a principle to guide the future of a nation. Law suits are filed when two or more parties are in disagreement over the interpretation of the constituion to that situation. Judges (who can be considered like Pastors) make a judgment in light of their understanding of what the constituion says. They make a judment based on the principles that are enshrined in the constitution.

If we can apply that common sense to the Bible, then you have your answers to the issue of slavery that seems to be keeping you awake at night.

@SeanT21,

So You are saying That Jacob Did wrestle with God? am i confuse?

The passage is very clear. Jacob wrestled with God in His manifestation as a man. Why is it hard to believe that God could manifest in the flesh as a man then when you believe He did as Jesus Christ? But you are getting hung on the wrong thing in that passage. That Jacob wrestled with God does not mean he is more powerful than God as some confused guy here is trying to confuse you about. If anything, it is mentioned that by just a touch from God, Jacob's leg was out of joint. Wasn't Jacob thankful that his life was spared despite his encounter?

What your focus should really be is the revelation that Jacob had from that encounter and it is this: Jehovah Peniel - the God that I can see face to face. The implication of that is profound!

I like the Mazda CX-9 but it is still not comparable to the Navigator.

@$$Rhino,

Tolu, i so much agree with you, you have surely throw me the challenge, hope to send mine to nija be4 the end of the year.
Infact, i am ready and willing to be helping anyone that buy vehilces off me to get the parts here in the western world at an wholesale's price, used or brand new parts.
Now, tell me what do i replace the navigator with after sending it to nija, the only thing i like again is the Range Sport, what do you think?

You are so right. I think the Navigator is virtually one of the most luxurious cars you can drive. You'll have to spend a lot to get something more luxurious. American cars are usually well loaded compared to other cars anyway.

@**ssy_full,

You must be joking - have u been to Lagos before?

How do you mean?

@SeanT21,

If you had taken time to meditate on my response to your earlier topic about Psalm 110, you will find it so easy to understand the personality that Jacob wrestled with. Here again is my response and try to apply the principle threre to this situation.


There are two Personalities which we see here - "The Lord" and "My Lord". The first refers to Almighty God in His Majesty and exceeding glory. This is the essence of God that Jesus declares in the NT that no man has seen. "My Lord" on the other hand refers to God who is relatable to and approachable to man. He represents God personalised through experience. This is the one the scriptures refer to as the WORD who manifested in the flesh in the fullness of His relationship to man.

This is why I can't figure out why some people say Jesus was never revealed or manifested in the flesh in the OT (saying all we saw was just the Holy Spirit). Anytime God manifests in the flesh in the OT, the people who experienced it are able to personalise that revelation of God which is why we get names like Jehoveh Nissi, Jehoveah Rapha, Jehovah Tsikednu, Jehovah Jireh etc. This is "The Lord" becoming "My Lord" to these folks.

In the NT however, we don't just declare Jehovah is this and that to us. When we declare "Jesus", it represents the fullness of God's manifestation in the flesh. He becomes everything personal of "God" to us, He becomes - "My Lord".

Can you relate this to the passage that narrates Jacob's encounter with God? Do you see how God is personalised only through revelation? Do you see how Jacob wanted to know His name which is nothing more than His manifestation? He met God and God became personal to him. Our revelation of God cannot go beyond of our revelations of Him.

@ifalways,

@Tayo-d agreed its a nice book but i refuse to buy that his philosophy of adam,Jesus and anti-christ unless there is a bible back-up.

You will find that revelation from front cover to the back cover of the Bible.

Thanks Guys for the input. I still can't come to a reasonable conclusion based on the postings so far. I might consider a live aution as Rhino said but I just can't figure out the best modalities for that. I am not desperate to sell it, as I can still continue to "rock" my thing. Come to thinko f it, maybe I should offer N100,000 to any one who finds a buyer who makes a down-payment in anticipaion of my sending it. I could work out that details with my Attorney in Lagos.

Hello,

I have a 2003 Lincoln Navigator I am considering sending to naija. I'd like to know if there is a market for such. I am currently using it and it has about 110,000 miles on it. Black exterior with brown leather interior and very much loaded.

I'll post pictures if any is interested. And by the way, I plan to sell for between 2.5 and 3.0 million depending on the shipping and other costs.

@Iyke-D,

Man, support McCain all you want but please you need to give the idea of the Iraq war being right, because the majority of Americans now think it was a major mistake.

Don't get me wrong. Of course the Iraq war isn't right. I say that with the benefit of hindsight, which is why most Americans now feel the same way. On the other hand, there was a huge support for the war based on the info available at the onset of the war. And I still say that it smirks of irresponsibility to have that level of intelligence at that time and oppose the war or any attempt to curtail Saddam.

And please don't reduce a $1trillion mistake to SURGE.  I was told the US was going to war with Iraq not "surge" with Iraq.  I hope you will admit it but part of the reason why McCain's surge is "so successful" is because the insurgents were being paid to put down their arms as well.

The conclusion of the whole matter is this: the Surge is successful despite Obama's opposition to it. In fact, Harry Reid said the war was lost and Obama as usual toed the line of his Party. McCain on the other hand stood agains tpopular opinion and made a call that has proven highly successful. Left to Obama and the Democrats, we would be retreating in the face of defeat today.

That said, the difference between small and big minded leaders is that the former focus on the tactical while the latter is more concerned with strategy.

Can you school me on what the diffrenece between tactics and strategy is? And can you please articulate what Obama's  tactic/strategy is concerning Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan.

Lastly, I am sure you heard McCain now agreeing with Obama on the need for a pullout timeline yesterday on CNN after discounting the idea for so long.

McCain's point has been pullout based on progress and benchmarks and that hasn't changed. Obama's position is pull-out irrepective of what is on ground. These are two different ideologies.
 

I bet you McCain will be saying "Yes We Can" before November. he is all over the place that one can't even keep up with what he stands for any more.  The latest I hear him say daily is that he knows how to win wars, but I am not sure which war he has won.

He's basically won the Iraq war with his support of the surge. Don't even start talking about flip-flopping as I will itemise Obama's flip-flopping here with ease.

@Iyke-D,

Two wars, one which was a war of choice that is sure to cost the US over $1trillion. It amazes me how neo-cons don't see that? Everyone told you not to go, but you chose to go look for WMD at a cost of over $1trllion and you people don't see this?

Every war is a war of choice. There wouldn't have been a 911 if Clinton had taken out Osama when the opportunity was there. Instead he accorded him a safe travel on chartered flight to Afghanistan. The intellectual dishonesty of the rest of the world astounds me with respect to the war in Iraq. Why did the UN impose sactions on Iraq that was costing lives? Why the oil for food program that was sabotaged by kickbacks? If the world had nothing to fear in Iraq, there would have been no sactions which were been flouted at will. In my opinion, given the available intelligence at that time, it would be irresponsible to not take drastic action to prevent Iraq acquiring and using a WMD. Afterall, he showed the willingness to use it by his treatment of his people.

Even McCain said so many times that the Iraq war will be very quick, how wrong was he? How can a rookie make the best judgment call regarding what was to be the US biggest foreign policy blunder and McCain with all his years in the senate gets it wrong?

It is easy to decry the war when you were not on the Senate. The same guy that denounced the war voted to sustain it and fund it while on the Senate. Talk about inconsistencies. If we had relied on Obama's judgement, there would not have been the troop surge that is credited for calming Iraq today. McCain stood behind the Surge/Counterinsurgency plan. Now both were in the Senate when they made this call and McCain is right while Obama got it absolutely wrong.

The US economy is afloat alright. You can choose to blame all the failings of the past 8 years on the democrats, but the honest truth is that the republicans have been in charge and their incompetence have shown time and time again.

I do not blame it all on the Democrats but they sure have incapacitate the Presidency at every turn. Bush fights for every dollar he needs to prosecute this war. many Democrats are complicit in the mortgage crisis today, and Fannae Mae is a congress run organization. No wonder the congress has a far lower rating than Bush.

The conservative ideology is tanking fast, because it had failed.

Absolutely not. The failure we've seen have been due to the tendency to play to the left just to satisfy them. The Republicans have largely turned away from their roots (see McCain for example) and that is why they are in the pickle they find themselves today.

Obama the Anointed One
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/gerard_baker/article4392846.ece

And it came to pass, in the eighth year of the reign of the evil Bush the Younger (The Ignorant), when the whole land from the Arabian desert to the shores of the Great Lakes had been laid barren, that a Child appeared in the wilderness.

The Child was blessed in looks and intellect. Scion of a simple family, offspring of a miraculous union, grandson of a typical white person and an African peasant. And yea, as he grew, the Child walked in the path of righteousness, with only the occasional detour into the odd weed and a little blow.

When he was twelve years old, they found him in the temple in the City of Chicago, arguing the finer points of community organisation with the Prophet Jeremiah and the Elders. And the Elders were astonished at what they heard and said among themselves: “Verily, who is this Child that he opens our hearts and minds to the audacity of hope?”

In the great Battles of Caucus and Primary he smote the conniving Hillary, wife of the deposed King Bill the Priapic and their barbarian hordes of Working Class Whites.

He travelled fleet of foot and light of camel, with a small retinue that consisted only of his loyal disciples from the tribe of the Media. He ventured first to the land of the Hindu Kush, where the

Taleban had harboured the viper of al-Qaeda in their bosom, raining terror on all the world.

And the Child spake and the tribes of Nato immediately loosed the Caveats that had previously bound them. And in the great battle that ensued the forces of the light were triumphant. For as long as the Child stood with his arms raised aloft, the enemy suffered great blows and the threat of terror was no more.

From there he went forth to Mesopotamia where he was received by the great ruler al-Maliki, and al-Maliki spake unto him and blessed his Sixteen Month Troop Withdrawal Plan even as the imperial warrior Petraeus tried to destroy it.

And lo, in Mesopotamia, a miracle occurred. Even though the Great Surge of Armour that the evil Bush had ordered had been a terrible mistake, a waste of vital military resources and doomed to end in disaster, the Child's very presence suddenly brought forth a great victory for the forces of the light.

And the Persians, who saw all this and were greatly fearful, longed to speak with the Child and saw that the Child was the bringer of peace. At the mention of his name they quickly laid aside their intrigues and beat their uranium swords into civil nuclear energy ploughshares.

From there the Child went up to the city of Jerusalem, and entered through the gate seated on an ass. The crowds of network anchors who had followed him from afar cheered “Hosanna” and waved great palm fronds and strewed them at his feet.

In Jerusalem and in surrounding Palestine, the Child spake to the Hebrews and the Arabs, as the Scripture had foretold. And in an instant, the lion lay down with the lamb, and the Israelites and Ishmaelites ended their long enmity and lived for ever after in peace.

As word spread throughout the land about the Child's wondrous works, peoples from all over flocked to hear him; Hittites and Abbasids; Obamacons and McCainiacs; Cameroonians and Blairites.

And they told of strange and wondrous things that greeted the news of the Child's journey. Around the world, global temperatures began to decline, and the ocean levels fell and the great warming was over.

The Great Prophet Algore of Nobel and Oscar, who many had believed was the anointed one, smiled and told his followers that the Child was the one generations had been waiting for.

And there were other wonderful signs. In the city of the Street at the Wall, spreads on interbank interest rates dropped like manna from Heaven and rates on credit default swaps fell to the ground as dead birds from the almond tree, and the people who had lived in foreclosure were able to borrow again.

Black gold gushed from the ground at prices well below $140 per barrel. In hospitals across the land the sick were cured even though they were uninsured. And all because the Child had pronounced it.

And this is the testimony of one who speaks the truth and bears witness to the truth so that you might believe. And he knows it is the truth for he saw it all on CNN and the BBC and in the pages of The New York Times.

Then the Child ventured forth from Israel and Palestine and stepped onto the shores of the Old Continent. In the land of Queen Angela of Merkel, vast multitudes gathered to hear his voice, and he preached to them at length.

But when he had finished speaking his disciples told him the crowd was hungry, for they had had nothing to eat all the hours they had waited for him.

And so the Child told his disciples to fetch some food but all they had was five loaves and a couple of frankfurters. So he took the bread and the frankfurters and blessed them and told his disciples to feed the multitudes. And when all had eaten their fill, the scraps filled twelve baskets.

Thence he travelled west to Mount Sarkozy. Even the beauteous Princess Carla of the tribe of the Bruni was struck by awe and she was great in love with the Child, but he was tempted not.

On the Seventh Day he walked across the Channel of the Angles to the ancient land of the hooligans. There he was welcomed with open arms by the once great prophet Blair and his successor, Gordon the Leper, and his successor, David the Golden One.

And suddenly, with the men appeared the archangel Gabriel and the whole host of the heavenly choir, ranks of cherubim and seraphim, all praising God and singing: “Yes, We Can.”

@Ibime,

Trust Tayo-D to be in here hating on Obama as usual.

Do you know the meaning of the word hate, or is that just a lose use of the term?

@Iyke-D

Ha, I didn't want to make any assumptions about you until I saw the above and now I see where you are coming from all along.

I do appreciate such stance. It's always smart to show some reservations before jumping to conclusions.

We all can support or vote for whoever we want to vote for, but I can not in good conscience vote for a war monger and someone who believes war is the answer to everything?

McCain is not a war monger by any means. If anything, he has said more than once that he knows the consequence of war and will be most reserved to get into one. But I am under no illusions that war is necessary sometimes. No elquence could have stopped Hitler apart from war, and from all indications, it will take more than rhetorics and sanctions to keep Iran from developing Nuclear weapons in preparation to wipe out the State of Isreal (a UN member State).

The best thing McCain has going for him was his military service, never mind that he got preferential treatment on account of his father and grand father who were navy people.

That's not true. He's got years of distinguished service in the Senate. Why dismiss his military service as well. How many folks will refuse bail just because of fellow soldiers who were not offered same?  

That aside, McCain is old, out of touch, and not very bright, I mean he graduated at the very bottom of his class.

Reagan was about this age when he was President and he is arguably one of the best Presidents that the US has ever had, and he remains the icon of conservative ideoalogy.  

Given what Conservatives have wrought, on this country the last 8 years, the last thing we need is another old and out of touch republican.

What have they wrought? They have managed to keep the economy afloat despite two wars. And mind you, the Democrats have always sabotaged their efforts all the way. It's almost as if they were fighting 3 wars.

Conservative Leaning? McCain is conservative?  That is news to me. Where did the Maverick title came from if he was conservative? What the hell is a conservative nowadays? Please don't make us laugh!

Do read what I've said again. McCain does not fully represent my leanings but he is closer to it than Obama.

@Oldie,

Problem about ideology and rationalisation is that there are no "in-betweens"

That is not true. While McCain doesn't fall in line with some of my ideologies, he will get my vote ahead of Obama.

Majority of voters vote on sentiments, however stupid and in-explainable

Maybe that is so, but there are also informed voters out there. And by the way, it is my opinion that conservative voters in America are more informed than the liberal voters.

But I have a problem with you ratioanlising my reasons for voting for whoever

Go back and read my inputs again. You said your vote is for Obama because of the "feel good" factor and I applauded you for been candid about your reasons rather than those who claim the guy is the answer to all problems. I wonder what data they used to arrive at that conclusion.

And thats one of the problems with ideologists - no halfway measures!

What is wrong with ideology? Another way to look at ideology is a set of principles. A principled person is more reliable than one who isn't.

You are either with me or you are against me.

Is Obama with or against you with regards to abortion, capitalism or socialism?

Please try and not over assume what you think others stand for. Your statements shows that you jump to conclusion ahead of facts.

@sleek_p,

slowpoke. (Talk about conscience}.

I will appreciate if you take back that insuilt. While I am for peaceful discussions and exchange of ideas, I do not shy away from roforofo fight when called upon. Until now, no one has abused those they disagree with before this insult from you. Toe the line of honor now for the sake of civility.

@oldie,

No doubt you have the right to vote for him based on any flimsy reason you or anyone can conjure. At least I am glad you are honest enough to speak the truth that your decision is based on feelings and not based on Obama's proven abilities. This is the self-delusion I have seen in most of his followers.

@poster,

You might want to pick up Rev Chris Okotie's book - The Last Outcast. He explained the reasons there very articulately. I'm not sure I can do justice to it here and so will just have you pick up the book yourself.

Let me give you a hint however, the 3 nights has to do with the 3 men that are primarily involved in the destiny of mankind - Adam, Jesus and the AntiChrist. A lot is explained in that book on how a man's connection to one or the other of these 3 men determines their destiny. One of the best books ever written in my opinion.