₦airaland Forum

GracieX3:
And the culture is liberal or progressive culture not black culture.

Religious states are also poor states.

Blacks in the US vote liberal or progressive more than any other race. Blacks are 90% liberal.
So clearly, liberal culture is a huge part of black culture. You can't take that away.

In fact, without the black community, the Dems with lose every federal election in the US

GracieX3:
There are low income women in rich states.

Stop twisting things

But this is not making sense, we will expect low income women in poor states to seek more abortions not the other way round.

GracieX3:
Abortion numbers are also affected by access to abortion......states who legalise abortion will have higher numbers of abortion.

Of course, backwards, broke azz religious red states ban access to abortion

Did you even read what you posted? It states that abortion bans affect low income women. This means that richer women are much more able to carry out abortions.
Just read what you got from Google.

From the photo you posted, it shows that poverty makes it harder to have an abortion not the other way round.

So women are not having abortions because they are very poor, they are having it because they want to murder their baby. Simple

GracieX3:
There are many ways to ban or restrict something.

The clearest way is to ban it with federal/state law.

Another way is to restrict funding or create social pressure.

How many abortion clinics would you see in a deeply religious state? These poorer states are usually religious.

This is why I mentioned environment and finance affecting abortions in the first place.

Before 2021, there was no state law banning abortion. Abortion was legal in all 50 states. The federal law had a sweeping effect.

You are just making my point.
More money seems to equal more abortions.
Abortion was completely legal and yet the very poor states had very low figures.

Again, you make my point about culture when you say that you may not find abortion clinics in religious states. But you will find them in places where the culture generally accepts them.

GracieX3:
It was a nonsense explanation and you know it.

Ok, I give it to you let's call it nonsense so we don't get tired up in so many debates. I concede to this so we can face the abortion topic without distractions

GracieX3:
Are you aware that spontaneous abortions are the most common type of abortion? So nature is the best murderer. Not so good if you believe that a creator is behind nature......

I could defend abortion in the instance of choice but I wouldn't waste my time if you are arguing on religious basis

This is not a very smart argument. Most people die a natural death, this doesn't stop murder from being a crime.
You seem to be arguing that because nature is responsible for abortion, it's ok to kill unborns.
That argument is one kind.
Nature is responsible for the death of most cancer patients so do we now go about killing cancer patients.

This is a first one for me, I have never heard this argument in defense of abortion before.

But it's funny, I give that to you.

GracieX3:
Lol....if you are using the data of state by state abortion, did you consider that the number of abortions is also factored by where it is legal? That is why i stated that abortion is also.factored by environment....

See how you twist data to support your ignorance?

And also, no one is stating that poor people must abort.

I knew you will say this, but this is a very terrible argument. Here is the reason.
Even if we go back to 2021 when abortion was legal in every state, we don't see poor states leading.

Let's look at the abortion rate in 2021
Highest rates
District of Columbia → 21.8
Florida → ~18–20
Georgia → ~16–18
New York City → ~16–17
Illinois → ~15–16
Colorado → ~15–16
You actually see the poorer states having the lowest abortions
Lower-rate states
Alabama → ~8–9
Kentucky → ~7–8
Arkansas → ~7–8
South Dakota → ~6–7
West Virginia → ~6–7
Idaho → ~6–7

So do you see that your argument is dead on arrival?

GracieX3:
How legal was abortion in the 60s and did the same black people have access to it. Abortion was not legal and so the numbers for it would be down.

This is the same racist argument that glorifies a time when black people didn't have rights and were oppressed.

Ok, smart argument here. But I presented other arrangements such as the rich state poor state argument. Let me see how you go about defending that

basilico:
Pay reparations to every black . 😃

Abi
If the more than 6 trillion black Américai has gotten in entitlement benefits changed nothing, that shows this is not a money problem

DeepSight:
Its just a warning about how far back you can go. I may not do so, but someone can come and tell you that each sperm is a potential person in development.

Personally, I cannot see a mere fertilized egg as a person on day 1 or even within a few weeks.

At the moment of conception, a sperm and egg combine to form a zygote.
That zygote has unique human DNA different from the mother and father.
From that point, it begins continuous development into a baby, child, and adult.

There is no clear scientific point after conception where you can suddenly say, “now it becomes human.

But I am interested in your thoughts, when is that point that you decide it's a human being. And what scientific methods lead to your decision

DeepSight:
Its just a warning about how far back you can go. I may not do so, but someone can come and tell you that each sperm is a potential person in development.

Personally, I cannot see a mere fertilized egg as a person on day 1 or even within a few weeks.

So when does it become a person to you? When dies abortion become murder to you and why?

Any later point is subjective
Conception is the only clear, objective starting point of human life.

DeepSight:
Opinions are free. People have different views of it. But murder is legally defined, so you will have to tie it to the definition of murder under the law. And abortion does not meet that definition.

You will have to also ask how far you want to push back the murder definition. Because if you insist on it, then we can also say that each time a man ejaculates outside a woman, he has committed murder. This line of thinking can easily be stretched to the absurd. It can mean that condoms are weapons of murder. It can mean that morning after pills are weapons of murder. It can convert many forms of contraception to murder.

But you are right about murder, society and culture defines murder. Do you now see why abortions are cultural?
A human being is killed but a culture can decide it's nothing just like another culture dignifies head hunting. Yet we both can tell that it is evil to hunt another man's head no matter what the culture or law of such people prescribe

DeepSight:
Opinions are free. People have different views of it. But murder is legally defined, so you will have to tie it to the definition of murder under the law. And abortion does not meet that definition.

You will have to also ask how far you want to push back the murder definition. Because if you insist on it, then we can also say that each time a man ejaculates outside a woman, he has committed murder. This line of thinking can easily be stretched to the absurd. It can mean that condoms are weapons of murder. It can mean that morning after pills are weapons of murder. It can convert many forms of contraception to murder.

A sperm is not a human and yes we can very scientifically calculate how far back we can go.
Each human being has a specific DNA. So it is only right to say that when a new DNA different from that of the parents is formed a human is created.
In what argument will a sperm qualify as a human being?
A sperm cell is just one specialized cell from a male body.
It has half the DNA and cannot grow into a human on its own. It only has one job: deliver genetic material.
A fetus (starting from a fertilized egg) is different.
At fertilization, a new cell forms with a complete human DNA set.
This new organism begins self-directed development (it grows, divides, and organizes itself).
Sperm = part of a body (a cell)
Fetus = a developing human organism

Do you get it now?

GracieX3:
That is an assumption. A stereotype. Who told you black people will not assist the police in stopping a criminal?

Abortions are a factor of finance and environment....not race

If abortion is caused by finances, how come none of the 10 poorest states in the US are among the top 10 in abortion rates
New York
New Jersey
Maryland
Florida
Illinois
California
The top 6 above

The idea that when you are poor, you should kill your baby is unacceptable

GracieX3:
That is an assumption. A stereotype. Who told you black people will not assist the police in stopping a criminal?

Abortions are a factor of finance and environment....not race

There is no moral difference between a woman who aborts her baby and a man who abandoned his kids and wife.

Sorry, actually, there is. The woman killed, she is a murderer

GracieX3:
That is an assumption. A stereotype. Who told you black people will not assist the police in stopping a criminal?

Abortions are a factor of finance and environment....not race

You are wrong about abortion. In the 60s the blacks were much poorer but they had less abortions. Abortions are a factor of a murderous society that is not ready to bear discomfort or the responsibility of child care.
These days in the US, women celebrate abortions on social media. How is that not culture

GracieX3:
That is an assumption. A stereotype. Who told you black people will not assist the police in stopping a criminal?

Abortions are a factor of finance and environment....not race

Didn't you read were I stated that it was a joke from a comedian?
It was my oversimplified way of explaining culture

DeepSight:
I said rest, you will not rest. Okay.

Listen. You just speak so broadly and generally as though the humans you are discussing are robots. When we say economic reasons for example you assume it must be resolved by the existence of willing adopters. In this you presume that everyone is either desirous of, or in a position to afford being pregnant for nine months. Not everyone is either. This simple pointer is enough to knock off your generalisation. And I don't want to enter a discussion in which I will be forced to explain the obvious like this to anyone.

Overall, abortion as we all know is a controversial matter. But starting from the economy, we are talking about the entire social situation of the mothers in the first place. Their education, their living circumstances, their access to quality health care, their social security, their access to a career and the truth remains that the black community falls within that poorer demographic where a more substantial amount of people are vulnerable in all these things and all of these things affect the amount of people who will find themselves in this kind of scenario.

It's almost similar to the question about performance at schools. Some ignorant shallow people simply say, oh, white kids perform better because they are smarter. The truth is that a kid from a comfortable home, a secure home, who is not hungry and who has all the learning tools he needs is by orders of magnitude better placed to perform better than a hungry kid from a scattered and deprived home. It's not a question of inherent smarts.

The point is that there is such a huge socio economic backstory to all of these things that it is shallow to simply say, oh, the white kid is smarter, just as it is shallow to simply say, oh, there are available adopters. It didn't even occur to you that there will be some people who simply don't want to give out their children to strangers.

All of this is beside the fact that there are still many other reasons for adoption, choice being one. Health being another. The circumstances being a third (age, rape, marriage, all sorts).

And again beyond all of this there isn't agreement on the nature of abortion. Some people like you see it as murder. Others don't agree that a foetus is a human being. I for one am okay with abortion in the early weeks but get queasy about it when the foetus begins to take on real form. It varies and is a sensitive matter of perspective and faith for many. It is also a matter of freedom and simple liberty of choice, control over ones own body and future for many.

Look, you have forced me to write. I don't wish to discuss these things because the angle you are coming from is too rigid and shallow and you don't give it depth of thought. Look at the economic scenarios for example. You will probably just say it's excuses and victim mentality and leave it at that without trying to make any synapses connect in ya head.

You are saying that it should be up to everyone to decide what is murder or what constitutes murder. But that's just the definition of a messed up society.
Whatever your mind tells you is murder is what you operate by. That's a leftist utopia and a mad society

DeepSight:
Ah. Men. The shallowness of thought here!
Let me leave it.

Lol
My thoughts are only deep when I agree with your bad ideas
Have you noticed that the leftists are the most uncomfortable when presented with counter arguments?
We conservatives are always open to speech and even when we know your ideas are foolish, we tell you why and teach you.
You leftist are just a different breed.

And yes, I oversimplified the meaning of culture so that anyone on this page will get it. My goal is to make it simple for all

DeepSight:
I said rest, you will not rest. Okay.

Listen. You just speak so broadly and generally as though the humans you are discussing are robots. When we say economic reasons for example you assume it must be resolved by the existence of willing adopters. In this you presume that everyone is either desirous of, or in a position to afford being pregnant for nine months. Not everyone is either. This simple pointer is enough to knock off your generalisation. And I don't want to enter a discussion in which I will be forced to explain the obvious like this to anyone.

Overall, abortion as we all know is a controversial matter. But starting from the economy, we are talking about the entire social situation of the mothers in the first place. Their education, their living circumstances, their access to quality health care, their social security, their access to a career and the truth remains that the black community falls within that poorer demographic where a more substantial amount of people are vulnerable in all these things and all of these things affect the amount of people who will find themselves in this kind of scenario.

It's almost similar to the question about performance at schools. Some ignorant shallow people simply say, oh, white kids perform better because they are smarter. The truth is that a kid from a comfortable home, a secure home, who is not hungry and who has all the learning tools he needs is by orders of magnitude better placed to perform better than a hungry kid from a scattered and deprived home. It's not a question of inherent smarts.

The point is that there is such a huge socio economic backstory to all of these things that it is shallow to simply say, oh, the white kid is smarter, just as it is shallow to simply say, oh, there are available adopters. It didn't even occur to you that there will be some people who simply don't want to give out their children to strangers.

All of this is beside the fact that there are still many other reasons for adoption, choice being one. Health being another. The circumstances being a third (age, rape, marriage, all sorts).

And again beyond all of this there isn't agreement on the nature of abortion. Some people like you see it as murder. Others don't agree that a foetus is a human being. I for one am okay with abortion in the early weeks but get queasy about it when the foetus begins to take on real form. It varies and is a sensitive matter of perspective and faith for many. It is also a matter of freedom and simple liberty of choice, control over ones own body and future for many.

Look, you have forced me to write. I don't wish to discuss these things because the angle you are coming from is too rigid and shallow and you don't give it depth of thought. Look at the economic scenarios for example. You will probably just say it's excuses and victim mentality and leave it at that without trying to make any synapses connect in ya head.

Let's simplify what you wrote.
You defended your economics and you went ahead to say that some women may not have the financial power to go through the 9 months of pregnancy.

First, in the US as a country there are so many provisions for such women. Also, there are more than enough non government organisations ready to support these women during their pregnancy.
Just Google it and you will discover hundreds of organisations begging these women.

To you second point, we are allowed to kill depending on when we think the unborn becomes a human. That's the law of wild animals.It makes no sense.
What if I decide that my 6 months after birth baby is not yet a human?

For you, the early stage of pregnancy is not human so when exactly does the baby become human to you?
When exactly does it become murder to you?

GracieX3:
Erm what is black culture?

Or are you mixing it up with glamorised gang culture in hiphop

What is culture in the first place?
We can oversimplify it by saying it is a set of acceptable behaviours among a society.

I once had a comedian tell a joke (he was black so don't call him racist). He said if the police is chasing a guy and he makes the mistake of running into a white neighborhood, everyone would assist the police in catching him. But if he is lucky to run into a black hood, everyone assists him in getting away from the police.

That's culture.
One culture accepts crime the other accepts law enforcement.

If black women are performing more than a third of all abortions that's culture and we should examine it from that lens

DeepSight:
This kind of absolute generalization that does not permit of the existence of even a single such case is enough to die the matter. There is no point reasoning with anyone who says this.

Think about this for a minute,
When every other women in black America is a murderer guilty of infanticide, what kind of mothers would they end up becoming?
What kind of society are they capable of creating.
The black American future is lost.

And we can't blame the whites for this

Hate Charlie all you want but these are the things he dedicated his life fighting against

DeepSight:
This kind of absolute generalization that does not permit of the existence of even a single such case is enough to die the matter. There is no point reasoning with anyone who says this.

Oga I use data and stats and you are allowed to fact check me
But let me give it to you that 1% of all abortions are because the mom can't take care of the child, that still tends to zero.

So instead of arguing about that one percent, let's talk about the 99%. There is so much more value in that than the elusive 1%

DeepSight:
You always make such sweeping statements. Its anti-intellectual. Basic common sense should caution you against generalizations.
And lest you get carried away, no, economics is not all there is to it. I only mentioned it as one factor.

1 to 2 million couples are waiting to adopt
In some estimates, that’s:
30+ waiting families for every 1 infant placed for adoption.

No woman in the US kills her unborn because she is too broke to take care of it.

Have you ever been to an abortion centre in the US?

There are always anti abortionist outside begging the mother, promising to take care of the pregnancy and the baby if the mom decides to keep it.

So please next excuse

DeepSight:
Abortion is not necessarily murder. And many of the same situational economic issues which are relevant from the issue of absentee fathers are relevant to this subject. This is actually a subject I would have loved to engage but the intellectual capacity / weight is simply not there to engage with.

Ok, so according to you, killing babies is not murder and it is caused by poverty.

Lete address the economic lie you told.
Today in the US, there are far more parents in the waiting list to adopt babies than babies available.
No child is aborted because her mom was afraid she couldn't provide for it. There are always more than enough people ready to take up that child.

This is 100% a cultural issue.
The society no longer attach human value to the unborn. So it's ok to flush it if the mom views it as an inconvenience.

DeepSight:
Abortion is a whole topic on its own.
Worm. Rest.

If 14% of the population (blacks) murder 30% of all unborn babies in US, it is clearly a cultural issue.
And it was not happening before they got equal rights so what changed?

DeepSight:
You can stop trying. Its okay.

Every 2 days, black American mothers commit an entire October 7th genocide on their babies. Everyone is accusing Israel or Hama's depending on who you support of genocide. But who cares about this culture of killing babies and how it has become a black culture in the US.

THEDEEPSIGHT:
If you had made sense on this matter and shown that it would be useful to discuss with you, there would have been a lot to say on the above. Alas, we have seen that's it's futile. I would be the fool to proceed.

Based on current 2025–2026 data from the Guttmacher Institute and the CDC:

Percentage: Black women account for approximately 29% to 40% of all abortions in America (depending on the reporting source and specific year).

Every 5 minutes 3 black babies are being killed by their mothers.

These people are not okay

But I am supposed to blame the whites for this so you can make me your friend

THEDEEPSIGHT:
If you had made sense on this matter and shown that it would be useful to discuss with you, there would have been a lot to say on the above. Alas, we have seen that's it's futile. I would be the fool to proceed.

You should have noticed that I don't care if you respond, I am only using you as reference to reach out to others on this page.
So calm down.
I noticed others are reading even when you don't.
Enjoy the rest of your night my boy
In fact one of your leftist leftover chicks is dying to talk with me

IjeBos:
He said segregation ended in 1964. And all the racists just changed their minds, held hands and sang kumbaya.
Stop posting and go read something.
Try a book on black American history.

I skipped

THEDEEPSIGHT:
You need help.

Segregation ended in 1964, is it not enough time to ask what and how has black America bettered itself since then?
Can we mention any action taken by the black community to improve their culture and society?
Secondly, how are the whites holding back black America today?
Since 1964, the blacks have been given more than 6 trillion dollars. They are by a mile the biggest benefactors of entitlement benefits per capital.
The have been given a black president, a black vice, blacks in the supreme court and they were granted affirmative action for decades.
What more would America do before they choose to be successful?

Please make a few suggestions of what the US can do to fix the black problem.

budaatum:
Now, this is amusing indeed!

Where did you expect a segregated black man pre-civil rights in America to go if he left his home, tctrills?

And do you understand the poverty he'd have lived under segregated at home and unable to go where the jobs were?

Actually, segregation didn't and couldn't prevent men from being irresponsible dads.
Do you even understand what segregation was?
Please explain how segregation kept men responsible because I am not getting this one.
Also, segregation happened mostly in the south. Why weren't the blacks in other states that irresponsible.

But please I like where this is going. Please explain how segregation keeps families together.