₦airaland Forum

achorladey:
To the bold part. The blood of those spilled crying and they didn't go to war

But then, no one will be held responsible for all these unnecessary deaths.

chimex38:
religious members who:
-self evaluate from time to time
-Study and think independently outside the rules of their hierarchy
-or consider and compare views of others on their doctrines,
-aknowledge some errors and gray areas to see some flaws
-critic parts that are overdue to change.
- question rules and try to provide alternatives where possible etc.

Such members will most likely spot a doctrine and adjust even before their governing body or supreme head makes any pronouncement.

I actually don't think members of any religion should be making the changes. It should always be up to the leadership if there must be order.

Also, to be honest, there isn't any church that is over a 100 years that has not make several important changes.

I also think that this is a positive start for the JW but I still think that the new rules bring a new set of problems. From what I was told, the new rule allows JW members to bank their own blood for the rainy day. This new law would bring about wild spread inequality.
In richer communities this wouldn't be a challenge, but the poor in 3rd world countries can't keep to this.
The church doctrines shouldn't be to benefit the rich at detriment to the poor.
I hope to be further educated on this though. But in general, this is healthier than the old law. Whomever was responsible for the old law is clearly a mass murderer.

DeepSight:
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Sure, there is fabricated secular history but you will not find any secular history that contains all those miracles and alleged supernatural events.
At best you will have reports of what people claimed they experienced: e.g: Constantine the Great claiming that he saw a vision of Christ or the Cross or the Chi-Ro.

I see you have responded to the Iran/US thread but somehow I am blocked from responding to you so we have to leave it for now.

DeepSight:
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Sure, there is fabricated secular history but you will not find any secular history that contains all those miracles and alleged supernatural events.
At best you will have reports of what people claimed they experienced: e.g: Constantine the Great claiming that he saw a vision of Christ or the Cross or the Chi-Ro.

So you are saying that history is correct when it doesn't have supernatural events and supernatural events make it a myth.
Is that your metrics?

uche87:
https://www.facebook.com/thevillagetowncrier/posts/pfbid02SqfLCNdcZDJWrC5b5W3t4KVEPYSdUyPxuPNhTLU9TTvQ8wQBRR4FuwjgUgT4A93Sl

Oga please go straight to your point. You started with talking about white Vs black offices. Trust me, you could have made your point in just 3 or 4 paragraphs

DeepSight:
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He was a person in secular history for heavens sake, he was a recorded King of Greece who conquered much of the known world, he also founded many cities which still stand today and some are named after him and still stand today, such as Alexandria in Egypt.

He is also not recorded to have done things which would put his story into the rank of myths such as walk on water, raise the dead, heal the sick, feed the five thousand, transfigure with Moses and Elijah, resurrect from the dead. All these things make a story sound very mythical.

And you believe the historians but doubt the historians that wrote about Jesus Christ.
When they tell you that Alexandria was founded by Alexander the Great, you don't question.

So why do you choose to believe one over the other, what are your metrics. How do you tell that the history is not fabricated?
Educate me please.

Are you saying that secular history can't be completely false?

Also, while you are at it, can you list other religious leaders from 2000 years ago that you have more secular information about that Jesus Christ or are they all myths?

DeepSight:
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No it does not.
You know in your heart that no man can tell you such and you will obey, prophet or not.

You did this yesterday, telling me what you think should be in my heart. I just told you that I will ask God but that can't satisfy you because I did not say what you want to hear.

There is still no point going back to it. Mind you, you never addressed all the verses. You spent most of your time addressing "Why do you call me good, only God is good." And you did a poor job.
Go back to the thread. I did not address them one by one but I clearly touched everything. And you will never say I did a good job. But let's move on.


We know it cant be physical, since its not a physical world, but the point is will it be eternal torture?

Eternal punishment for the wicked... So, if the wicked will never be able to live with God and with the righteous, does that qualify as eternal punishment?
I believe there would be an eternal separation and yes, regret and sorrow.

DeepSight:
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I actually agree with the bold and in truth there is the problem of objective and subjective morality which a lot of old posters and I debated many years ago here -

https://www.nairaland.com/1520806/evolution-morality

You might find the thread interesting.

I also created a thread about the issue here -

https://www.nairaland.com/1294489/basis-human-morality

LordReed what is your take again, I believe we have also debated this.

Tctrills, let me put this question to you: Abram is said to have heard the voice of God directly right? Ok. However through most of the OT God spoke through prophets. How would it seem to you if a man calling himself a prophet came to you and gave you the same instruction to kill your child, saying the instruction is from God. How would you react?

That's why we have a responsibility to discover God and His prophets. If I receive a difficult or do I say strange commandment from someone I believe to be a prophet of God, I will pray and ask God. I wouldn't dismiss it just because it is hard or strange. Does this answer your question?

sonmvayina:
so you are putting Alexander the great in the same category as your god. That is refreshing. so because Alexander lived, Jesus must live too....be commiting all the fallacy . till the day your eyes willbeopen.
just like Justin martyre said, will put Jesus in the same category as Dionysus and Perseus..He is more closer to the truth.

No, I am only providing that you are not equipped to tell what is real or myth.
You don't know and no one including yourself should listen to you when it comes to this topic.

Just in case you don't know, the earliest known history of Alexander the Great was written 400 years after his death yet you believe he is real.
What's your metrics for deciding what is real or myth.You clearly seem not to have any.

Since we have tackled Trinity elsewhere with the 20 verses you decided to delete from the bible, let us address the others.
Now, this is just unfair. I addressed all your concerns even from your 20 verses. Please go back to the discussion for memory sake. While you will not find a single verse in the bible that denied Jesus Christ's divinity, you will see enough to teach you that He is God.

Start with eternal hell fire.

Do you believe in this
The bible has described the final state of the wicked in different ways. Do I believe it's going to be real physical fire? No.
Other verses talk about Outer darkness.
But one thing is clear, the wicked will be separated from God and the righteous.

DeepSight:
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Interesting experiment. Lets go for it, it may be fun.

I think it will be.

DeepSight:
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This is why I need to make that full post. I have saved it but lai lai, I get banned whenever I post it. I have edited it so many times to make it as pure as a gospel, still the same thing.

Then create a new thread and I will join you.

DeepSight:
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We all have something called a conscience, at least most of us do, a few have killed thier conscience.
Most of us know instinctively that it is wrong to murder your child at the command of any religious voice as a sacrifice. For that reason most of us will never do such a thing. In fact most of us will go to war with such a voice.

Look, let me tall you something, I dont think I am above God, that will be absurd, we are too miniscule in the scheme of things and I am generally agnostic about this reality at all events,

You have to understand that for me, that barbaric entity described in the OT is NOT God.
It is some pagan iteration of a deity with flashes of goodness and a great deal of barbarity.

Yes we have conscience, that's why we are able to have this discussion. But conscience alone is not able to guide us as a group that's why we all have our different moral standards. That's why you will find a kind and loving person supporting Israel and another loving and kind person on the Palestinian side. Conscience has never been enough and conscience is not constant. What was right to a person in ancient Rome might be wrong to you today.
But then, you have decided that you will be the ultimate test for God. That's a bit different. He is not able to direct your conscience.
You have a Gen Z God notion. But God existed and ruled in the time of old when moral codes were very different from yours. God related to men in primitive times and He appealed to their hearts in ways they understand. He taught and tested their faith according to the times.
But you look at God through the prism of your present day experience. You are so short sighted.
You create rules for the giver of life. You decide what live He can take and how He should. It doesn't work that way.

DeepSight:
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Finally been able to understand me in what sense. How?

You have created your own morality and you judge God by it. You have decided what must be right and what is wrong and if God is not able to make your standards, He is false.
By your standards, God shouldn't be able to send His son to pay the price of sin.
God shouldn't be able to test His servant's unquestionably obedience.
The only way you agree with God is if He lives by your rules.
But as the human that you are, that is a very arrogant and shallow position to take.
You believe that you can't be wrong. Your moral compass is always on point, God has to adjust to you.
God's plan in sending Jesus Christ shows mercy, Justice for all and great love but since it's not your style, you disapprove.
Abraham passing the test shows faith and God's ultimate wisdom but then, God shouldn't have the right to ask you to sacrifice what He gave you
In short, you have become God unto yourself. You really don't need another God.
You are bigger than all religions, none will fit you.
I will keep having these arguments with you because I enjoy doing it but now, I know your position. You challenge God because you think you know better and can do better.

Can we do something fun for once, maybe on another thread. You will be God and I will be asking you questions to see how you will do things differently from the Christian God.
I would ask you questions about almost every topic, sin, forgiveness, sacrifice, war, slavery, whatever comes to my mind to see how you would rule if you were God

DeepSight:
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I feel there are important points to be made.

Anyway the Strait is not fully closed about a hundred ships still go through daily and secondly you don't condemn the lack of planning and daily change of mouth and self contradiction of Trump in this. Also you discount that it is natural for a weaker side to use every natural leverage at its disposal, you discount also that they were attacked in the middle of negotiations.

So you have said a lot that I don't agree with.
Let's look at them one by one.
1. The Strait is basically closed and that's why your petrol is so expensive.
Here are the stats, before the war, ~120 to 138 ships used the Strait daily now, approximately 250 oil tankers and over 3,000 total commercial vessels are currently estimated to be anchored outside the Strait in the Gulf of Oman, waiting for the security situation to stabilize.

Iran has directly attacked oil production of its innocent neighbours. They have attacked fresh water production. But of course, it's the US fault.

2. You spoke about the lack of planning and there again, I don't think you know what you are talking about.

It has been just 22 days of war, you have taken out your enemies entire leadership, their entire navy, air force, air defence, 90% of their missile and drone capability, and even their ability to pay their military. You did all this in just 22 days and extremely minimal casualties then you are accused of not planning.
Make it make sense.
This is one of Americas most planned and successful wars by any metrics.
Please explain why you think it wasn't planned out.
Still talking about planning, do you remember when the Russian/Ukraine war started? The price of gas in the US went up much higher than this. Then, it was only Russian oil supply that was disrupted. Now, it's the entire gulf supply that is disrupted yet the US is handling it much better.
I really hope you can show how this was not planned.

DeepSight:
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Send me a DM so i email you my response on Iran. I keep getting banned when i post it.

Don't worry, we will continue with that some other time

DeepSight:
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It is unnatural and goes against all natural protective and loving parental instinct.
If any voice comes and tells me to kill my parent, I will curse that voice first.

You might be right. Obedience to God means going beyond the natural desires and urges.
If God asks you to do anything, obedience would give you blessings.
As Zi said, I have finally been able to understand you.

You know the truth in your heart that you will never obey such a barbaric and absurd command.
Now you are deciding what's on my heart

In the first place think about it.

You will have to ask yourself whose voice you are hearing because God does not appear in front of anyone and even if it did, you will still question what you are seeing or hearing, you will ask yourself if you are going mental or if an evil spirit is speaking to you.
If you hear the voice of your father, would you recognise it?. "My sheep know my voice."

Because for it to say "kill your son" you will question it seriously and you will surely conclude that it is not of God but if the devil.

Thank God Abraham was not that foolish and he was able to bless his generation.

This gives you yo know not only is the OT barbaric and pagan, but the entire idea of murdering someone for sins of others is despicable, repugnant and barbaric and no decent person should subscribe to it.
You haven't been able to demonstrate that the giver of life asking you to return what he has given you is barbaric and pagan. Please explain why God's commandment to Abraham was barbaric and pagan.

DeepSight:
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What is there to explain. Someone sells his property and brings part of the proceeds to the Church and you kill him and his wife for that?

I think I have finally been able to decide your problem with Christianity and religion in general.

DeepSight:
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What is there to explain. Someone sells his property and brings part of the proceeds to the Church and you kill him and his wife for that?

God took his life for dishonesty and disloyalty. Should God the giver of life have the right to do so? I think yes

DeepSight:
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So you will not obey such a command. That simply means in your heart of hearts you know it is demonic.

Moo, it simply shows that I am imperfect and my faith isn't strong enough. I hope to get to a point where I will be strong enough to do all God commands

DeepSight:
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Every reasonable person knows that the story of Ananais and Sapphira is a blight on the early church and disclosed nothing but dictatorial and extortionate murder.

Explain

DeepSight:
Tctrills let me ask you a question and answer honestly.

If you were asked to kill one of your children for the sins of others today as a sacrifice to God will you do it.

In short if you were given the demonic command given to Abram to kill his son, would you obey.

I am not as obedient as Abraham, but obedience to God always brings blessings, as we saw in the case of Abraham.

sonmvayina:
ask Gemini to tell you who actually heard him speak,

you are comparing your god to Alexander the great. continue, you will soon realize that he was made up in Nicea

No, no, no, first ask Gemini to tell you who heard Alexander the Great speak. I asked you to do something, but you have not done it. You are requesting something from me. Do what I asked earlier, then you can ask your questions.
Also, be prepared to answer the same questions for Alexander the Great

sonmvayina:
This is what Gemini has to say.

Alexander the Great was a real historical figure, not a myth. As the King of Macedonia who created one of the largest empires in ancient history by age 25, his existence is documented by historical, archeological, and numismatic evidence. However, his life became heavily embellished with mythical tales and exaggerated legends, such as the "Alexander Romance".

it does not mean that Jesus is a real figure.....

I did not ask what Gemini said; I asked what you believe. But now, since you believe Alexander is not a myth, can you spot out why he is not a historical myth but Jesus Christ is? Please use Gemini.


About Jesus Christ, this is what Gemini said.

Whether you look at this through the lens of faith or through the lens of a secular historian, the consensus is that Jesus of Nazareth was a real, historical person.

While people debate his divinity (whether he was the Son of God), very few serious scholars today argue that he was "mythical" or made up. Here is the breakdown of the evidence:

DeepSight:
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Test post. I am being banned no matter what I post. Let me see if this gets banned.

This video shows I am not the only one

https://youtube.com/shorts/B30XP3uuPgQ?si=z8svpuMVZ5szBKtK

sonmvayina:
myths are stories(not history) used to convey messages....Every culture has developed their stories based on elements of their culture. Every culture has a creation myth.the Jewish one is not unique,it is actually based on an earlier Babylonian myth...
I have a theory I am working on, I think Jesus might be Marduk.(The son of Enki) , the creator of the universe...I think he is also Arch angel Michael...(on account of the passage in the book of revelation)..I will share my finding as soon as I am done.
But he was never on earth as a man.

I once asked you if Alexander the great was a myth and you said you don't know. So you are in zero position to tell what is a myth or not. I hope you understand why no one should take you seriously when you bring up this your myth thing.
You are not equipped to identify a true historic event from myths

zinaunreal:
😆 look up. See your brain for that corner. If you like don't use it

Ok

sonmvayina:
see Numbers 23:19. God is not a man or a son of man. Jesus can't be God (if he existed) .man is man and God is God....there is no process where one becomes the other. The virgin birth even tells you the story is a myth.

Oga you have been saying this since I have known you but never with evidence. I have no reason to believe since you don't know what a myth is

zinaunreal:
Una too like story of lies. I tell you i go for raw truth. Those plat forms won't show you what you need to see. Start from here

Your idea of raw truth is any unknown person you like on X right?

You said so much here but I would ask you to provide evidence that US is using their bases in the gulf states.
Please don't come here and be spreading fake news.
The gulf states refused the US from using their bases.
Let's debate, argue or even quarrel but no lies please.