₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
Ọmọ you forgot the title giving to Jesus shey?

Well he is the "WORD of God" {John 1:1} and nobody gets anything from God if not through Jesus {John 14:6} so read chapter 1:1 of Revelation again and think of anything John could have received or seen without Jesus been the one showing him!

Now you are not making a reasonable point. We know that no revelation from Genesis to revelations could be received without Jesus Christ that's not the argument. We are simply telling you that John received a vision, he was not told a parable.
So clearly you are off point.

MaxInDHouse:
So it was only chapter one that Jesus spoke shey?

You're just trying to argue blindly!

Jesus was the one speaking throughout that book except few words spoken by his father which Jesus transmitted to John!

No not only chapter one.
There are chapters Christ spoke and chapters where John saw a vision. Please read Chapter 20.
Below is the first verse.
And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
It was John speaking here not Jesus Christ. He is telling you what he saw.
Just read, you would understand.

MaxInDHouse:
He was helplessly in his grave until God raised him from among the dead!

He was preaching to the spirits in prison.

MaxInDHouse:
Quote it out where it was WRITTEN that he MET with spirits in prison!

Yes he met spirits in prison.
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
So the idea that one must be in earth or heaven is false. Where did Christ go when he died?

MaxInDHouse:
Revelations 1:1

Are you confused. Jesus Christ spoke in Revelations 1.1 but chapter 20 was a vision not words. Please read. In chapter 1, John heard the voice of Christ but in chapter 20, he was shown the future. Christ did not speak.
Do you now understand it.
You are welcome.

MaxInDHouse:
Now you're GUESSING!

Where is the highlighted found in your Bible?

Oga please read 1 Peter 3. 18-20 Jesus Christ went to the spirits in prison. I am not like you. I don't guess

MaxInDHouse:
Ọmọ you're just desperate to argue blindly!

Have you agreed that Jesus is the one talking to Apostle John in the Bible book of Revelation?

Oga, no one was talking to John in that Chapter. He was seeing a vision not hearing a voice. Jesus was not talking to him.

MaxInDHouse:
For just as Joʹnah was in the belly of the huge fish for three days and three nights, so the Son of man will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights Matthew 12:40

David foretold that Jesus was not left in the grave!

Good, yet, he was not among living humans in those 3 days. He met with spirits in prison. So being cut off from the earth does not mean dead even from the verses you read.

MaxInDHouse:
There are just two places God created in the beginning: Heaven and Earth! Genesis 1:1

God's word told us that the heavens belongs to God but earth He has given to humans! Psalms 115:16

So when He says some will be cut off from the earth it simply means they will be removed from among the living!

Who created the sun and moon and stars. Who told you God only created 2 places. When Christ died, where did he go? Was he in heaven or earth? Please stop this guesswork.

MaxInDHouse:
Ọ̀gbẹ́ni the person SHOWING John all these things is Jesus Christ and just as he taught by illustrations he used SIGNS to reveal many things to John! Revelations 1:1

So it's no longer a parable. Hmm. In just 2 days we are making JW change their doctrine.
Now explain when you say illustrations and signs.

MaxInDHouse:
Ọmọ RIGHTEOUS dey UNRIGHTEOUS dey nah WICKED God wants to cut off from among the living!

God did not say he would cut them among the living. He only said he will cut them from the earth. Please no guesswork.

MaxInDHouse:
Parables are words spoken in symbolic terms and Revelations chapter 1:1 says Jesus is the one showing John all these things using SIGNS.
So you can run but you can't hide after trying to argue that Jesus is not the one showing John!

That's not the meaning of parable. Here is the meaning of a parable. A simple story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson. Please verify.
But even using your definition, in Revelations 20 words were not spoken to John, he saw a vision. So even with your definition, you are wrong.
Please verify the meaning of a parable. Its a story told to teach a lesson. The angel was not telling John a story, he saw a vision.

MaxInDHouse:
You just want to argue blindly!

Who is the person that sent his angels to reveal all these things to John by signs? Revelations 1:1

Oga why are you pretending to be confused. You earlier said it was a parable but now we clearly see it was a vision not a parable. Now your new argument is who sent the angel?
Let's not create unnecessary distraction. A vision is different from a parable. What does who sent the angel have to do with what John saw in a vision?

MaxInDHouse:
Neither did it say cut off from the righteous.

Cut off simply means removed from the picture!


For only the upright will reside in the earth, And the blameless will remain in it. As for the wicked, they will be cut off from the earth, And the treacherous will be torn away from it! Proverbs 2:21-22

Actually it clearly states they are separated from the righteous. Its clearly stated, the righteous would inherit the earth while the wicked would be in a place of torment. Please let's not do any guesswork.

MaxInDHouse:
Cut off from among those in existence!

No they were cut off from the righteous. It never said cut off from those in existence.
No guess work please.

MaxInDHouse:
You keep saying people should read our book when we that have studied it from cover to cover are telling you what's in there but you're arguing blindly!

Well this is what is written in the opening words of the Bible book of Revelation:

A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he (Jesus) sent his angel and presented it in signs through him to his slave John! Revelations 1:1

So i ask you Mr atheist, who is talking (revealing) to John here in the Bible book of Revelation?

And was Jesus literally talking or using symbolism (signs) ?

Bros please read your bible. In Revelations 20. 10, no one was talking. John was seeing and he wrote what he saw. He was not being told. He was seeing for himself.
Now let's read the bible oga.

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened

All these are verses in Revelations 20. You notice John say "I Saw'. Oga you tell a parable you don't see a parable.

Once again, you are welcome.

MaxInDHouse:
The wicked shall be turned into hell (grave)

They will no longer be alive! Psalms 37:9-10

So that faithful and obedient mankind can continue to live in peace {Psalms 37:11} forever! Psalms 37:29

Sorry to take you back but I need to correct one of your major errors further.
Revelations 20.10 could in no way be a parable. It was not Jesus or anyone speaking. It was a vision. John was recording what he saw. In the vision, he saw the evildoers being tormented forever and ever. So please stop teaching your members that it was a parable of Jesus Christ.
The same goes for Revelations 14.10.

Again, the bible clearly states that evil people would be resurrected after the 1000 years reign of Christ.

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

You are welcome

MaxInDHouse:
The wicked shall be turned into hell (grave)

They will no longer be alive! Psalms 37:9-10

So that faithful and obedient mankind can continue to live in peace {Psalms 37:11} forever! Psalms 37:29

Again you are wrong. The verses quoted did not say that the wicked will no longer be alive.
Please learn to read your bible. Below is what is written
For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the Lord, they shall inherit the earth.

10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.

You are welcome

MaxInDHouse:
We can't agree on the highlighted rendering because my own Bible says:

All those in God's memory book/ memorial tombs which is harmony with Psalms 9:17.
Wicked people will not be remembered!

As for those who got resurrected they will live for a thousand years after which they will either enter God's Kingdom for good if they're worthy but if not they will return to death that's why Revelations 20:14 called it SECOND DEATH!

I guess your bible is different
Psalm 9:17

17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.
Compare to Rev 20.10
And Rev 20.10 explains the second death. Also read Rev 14.10 for better understanding

Beremx:
I remember back in the late 80s and early 90s when as a kid in Festac Town, Eyo Festival was done and it was a sight to behold. The festival for almost three decades have stopped at festac. I think it only holds at Lagos Island. Such a beautiful rare event.

If the film portrays Eyo Festival as bad, then the movie should be banned. That's a sacrilege to a culture people practice.

Oga, why ban a movie? It's not based on a true life story. It's all about creativity. There have been movies in which the US president was portrayed in a negative image but the White House did not ban such.

We should stop banning people from their creative expression. Let people tell their stories and if you don't like them, tell yours or don't watch.
FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION.

MaxInDHouse:
Anyhow you want it i'm not interested in fruitless arguments!

When Jesus says what's contradictory to the inspired expressions of the prophets like fire burning as punishment for sin then it's a parable because death is the wages of sin according to the inspired expressions of God's prophets.
There is no torment for the dead since death is ultimate wage for sin and in death there is no activity! Ecclesiastes 9:5-10

You and i worship different Gods, mine hates sin so all humans are born sinners that why we must do our best to inculcate in them the love of our God who wants them to live forever.
As for all those that refuses to avail themselves for this provisions they're all returning to none existence from where they came not everlasting life in pains because life everlasting is a gift from my own God to the righteous not the wicked!

You keep getting one thing wrong. We both agree with Ecclesiastes 9:5-10. A dead body has no activity. But no one is talking about the dead. We are talking about resurrected beings, not dead people.

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

MaxInDHouse:
Go and worship your god i know mine that's why i speak on His behalf there's no need for endless arguments, yours differs from mine the only issue we have is quoting the Bible to support different Gods so keep your god while i keep mine!

You make a good point. So let's summarize.

1. According to your God, many of Jesus Christ's parables contradict His word.
2. The Wicked would not be tormented forever rather, the torment is for those who would remember them.

These are the 2 issues that separate us in this regard. Anyway, it's always fun doing this with you.

MaxInDHouse:
You just feel like arguing blindly!

Another verse that teaches about eternal torment. Learn
Revelation 14:9-11
And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.

MaxInDHouse:
God's word said death is the punishment for sin {Genesis 2:17} and at death there is no activity! Ecclesiastes 9:6
So whatever Jesus said that contradicts this must be a parable!

Solomon is a child born in sin so he's not worth what we are saying right now! Romans 3:23

Omitting the names of the first three humans in the Bible means a lot to any right thinking person!

I am Abraham's descendants by faith so i can tell you what our God can and what He will never ever do! Genesis 18:25

Be wise, death is not judgment. Judgment comes after death.
Hebrews 9:27
And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment

MaxInDHouse:
You just feel like arguing blindly!

Read and learn wisdom. Punishment comes on the day of Judgement and not before it.
2 Peter 2:9
9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

MaxInDHouse:
You just feel like arguing blindly!

Actually everything I say is based in the bible.
I was not the one that claimed Jesus Christ Parables are contrary to the word of God.
I was not the one that claimed the innocent are tormented forever in their memories of the evildoers.
Clearly we see who is arguing blindly.

[quote author=MaxInDHouse post=122473173]God's word said death is the punishment for sin {Genesis 2:17} and at death there is no activity! Ecclesiastes 9:6
So whatever Jesus said that contradicts this must be a parable! God's word said the evil would be punished and tormented forever. It also says all would be resurrected.

Solomon is a child born in sin so he's not worth what we are saying right now! Romans 3:23 Still the bible teaches he is a son of God, are you calling the bible a lie?

Omitting the names of the first three humans in the Bible means a lot to any right thinking person! It means nothing stop bringing up irrelevant things. We have a lot of relevant things to discuss so stop distracting.

I am Abraham's descendants by faith so i can tell you what our God can and what He will never ever do! Genesis 18:25 You remind me of the Jews. John 8:33
“We are the descendants of Abraham,” they answered,

That's what God's Holy Spirit does it teaches us what can't be disputed even though you may like to argue it you can't find a rebuttal! :)
If you have the Holy spirit you wouldn't say that Jesus Christ Parables contradict his words. And you won't call him a liar

Solomon is born a sinner {Psalms 51:1} so he's not fit to be called God's Son in this respect Sir! Romans 3:23
The bible calls Solomon a son of God but JW say he is not. Oga any intelligent person would stick to the bible.


Adam, Eve and Cain first lived before Abel yet Paul omitted the three only to start mentioning Jehovah's Witnesses from Abel being the first {Hebrews 11:4} Ọmọ you need JWs to teach you many things about our history! Hebrews 12:1
Paul omitted so many people so your argument here is not sound.

Adam is the first sinner and the punishment of his sin is DEATH {Genesis 2:17; 3:19} so all those inheriting sin from him can't be given additional punishment that's what intelligence and wisdom means! Romans 6:7
Now you are God to decide what punishment to give right?God said the wicked would be tormented forever but JW say God does not have the right to punish them more than Adam.

[quote author=MaxInDHouse post=122465178]Now you know why the Bible equates Adam to Jesus {1Corinthians 15:45} for your information it simply means both are perfect humans.
The guesswork people
As both of them are God's Sons {Luke 3:38; John 3:16} any of them could bear children and their children will automatically become God's children. Solomon is also a son of God so you have no point. 1 Chronicles 22.10

That's why Paul under inspiration omitted the first three humans who lived before Abel.
Adam, Eve and Cain are excluded in God's memory book for resurrection! Hebrews 11:4 This is a most stupid argument. There are millions of good people whose names were not mentioned in Hebrew 11 for example, Job was not mentioned.



Death is the ultimate wage for sin {Genesis 2:16 ; Romans 6:7, 23} so anything after the death of a sinner means parables!
Oga the word Ultimate is not written in the Christian bible. JW added this. remember the curse for adding to the bible? It seems you are trying to manipulate the written word of God. You don't even mind forgery just to make a sad point. You guys are just like the average criminal Nigerian political. You are prepared to forge your own bible just for argument's sake. It is sick

MaxInDHouse:
You have forgotten what Abraham said when talking to his most powerful friend:

It is unthinkable that you would act in this manner by putting the righteous man to death with the wicked one so that the outcome for the righteous man and the wicked is the same! It is unthinkable of you. Will the Judge of all the earth not do what is right?” Genesis 18:25

Well that's why we are rightly called JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES because we can speak confidently about what He can do and what He will never ever do!
Adam was a perfect human before he sinned Jesus' blood can't redeem a perfect person but the imperfect ones {Matthew 9:13} so his ability to save only applies to those born sinners not perfect humans who chose to die.
For your information on the matter of redemption Adam and Jesus are equal {1Corinthians 15:45} so Jesus can't save Adam!



Anything he said that's not in harmony with what God's Holy Spirit inspired the prophets to pen down {2Timithy 3:16; 2Peter 1:21} is a parable.
He forewarned his listeners that he has not come to contradict the inspired expressions of the prophets! Matthew 5:17

Your bible never called Adam perfect. This is another JW guesswork. And your bible never said Christ can't redeem Adam, another guesswork

Secondly, Jesus Christ never said anything that is not in harmony with God's word. All his parables are in harmony with God's word. Is it the parable of the sower or the talent, all are in harmony with the word of God.
You are right, his parable do not contradict the word of God.
He never contradicted the word of God in Parables or in plain speech.

[quote author=MaxInDHouse post=122463855]Hmmmmmmmmmmmm you lack intelligence!

Who is the foremost sinner whose sin brought pain and untold suffering on all mankind?
Adam! Romans 5:12
So how can Adam's punishment be lesser than any of those infected by his disobedience?
That's how ULTIMATE comes in! Romans 6:23
No additional punishment could be justified if Adam the first sinner only paid death for his sin! Romans 6:7
Funny guy. Who are you to decide who gets more or less punishment. Again Adam died as God pronounced so why do you have issues with Jesus Christ teaching that all would be resurrected?


Before his coming it has been written that he will speak in parables {Psalms 78:2 compare to Matthew 13:35} so if you're taking his words literally i pity your life! Mark 9:47 if you believe that all Christ said was a parable then you are a joker.
Whenever he had a parable, the bible informed us.
Oga all the words of Christ are not parables.

MaxInDHouse:
That's what you've been thinking all this while shey?
No wonder you keep arguing blindly!


Well if you must know anyone destroyed by God received eternal judgment directly but all those dying due to Adamic sin are SLEEPING in death {John 11:11-14 compare to 1Corinthians 15:6} so they are the ones to be awaken from their long time sleep! John 5:28-29; 11:25


But as for all those God Himself destroyed in His anger as wicked people they will never ever be awaken! Psalms 9:17

Now you know!

So if a JW dies in a natural disaster, he has received eternal Judgment?
Or is it not God that controls the elements and nature?