₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
Was his death a punishment from God?

If not then the hope of seeing him again will linger in your heart but let's imagine that he was caught with a gang of robbers and after he was convicted sentenced to death by hanging of course you will continue to feel he's gone forever never to be your friend again.

That's what it means!

I like your armed robber example better. So let's assume I have a robber friend that was killed, when I remember his death. I would be the one tormented not him or is it different for JW members. I would be the one to suffer shame not the dead guy. Is that not the same in your Church?

MaxInDHouse:
Ọmọ what comes to your mind when you remember the name Sodom and Gomorrah?

Do you remember that the city was once really influential and big commercial centers or the fire that came out of heaven to consume these cities?
Well that's what Revelations is simply telling you!

What does the remembering of an ancient city have to do with their torment lasting forever. Please explain.

[quote author=MaxInDHouse post=122445301]Nooooooooo!
That's not how immortal beings reason, it's you who feels death is normal that thinks it's nothing to be ashamed of but as for people who have never tasted death for thousands of years it brings agony to their brains! Luke 22:39-43
What are you saying. The thought of death or dying brings agony to everyone's brain. But the agony here is endless. Meaning the person did not die. Why didn't the agony stop at death. Remember you said no activity after death.

Do you see where angels came consoling Jesus? Well they're simply reminding him that it's just for three days and three nights not forever! what does this have to do with endless agony

MaxInDHouse:
Ọmọ the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah are being tormented day and night in our memories as if fire is still falling upon those two cities.
That's what it means!

I have a friend who died of an accident, when I remember him, does he get tormented?

MaxInDHouse:
Ọmọ the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah are being tormented day and night in our memories as if fire is still falling upon those two cities.
That's what it means!

Oga are you ok. Explain how to torment a dead man in your memory.
Please do you know the meaning of torment? Its impossible to torment another person in your memory oga. What are you even saying.

MaxInDHouse:
Ọmọ death is for those who are powerless so if after a thousand years of living youthful lives like immortals their death will mean eternal shame for them as they're unable to continue living with whatever they rely upon apart from faith in God.
That's what it means not that dead people will be somewhere roasting in some fire! Jeremiah 7:31

Oga you can't have eternal shame if you die. In fact death would save them from eternal shame. Death is clear opposite of eternal shame because you need to be alive to be ashamed forever.

MaxInDHouse:
You only need to correlate what God said in the beginning with whatever you later find in the Bible otherwise you will just hing onto what has no bearing on the Bible as a whole!

Eternal shame goes to those who lived for a thousand years thinking nothing could kill them again but later found out that death still has power over them!

Uncle, are these also the same people spoken of in Revelation 20:10

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

can you be tormented day and night forever and ever at death?

MaxInDHouse:
You only need to correlate what God said in the beginning with whatever you later find in the Bible otherwise you will just hing onto what has no bearing on the Bible as a whole!

Eternal shame goes to those who lived for a thousand years thinking nothing could kill them again but later found out that death still has power over them!

When did they find out that death has power over them? Was it after their death? Lol. So was their endless shame after death or before death? Your story get K leg

MaxInDHouse:
If i tell you the meaning of what Daniel is saying you'll be shocked but because of anyone who may be interested:

Daniel is talking about the endtime which begins when John the baptist started calling Jews saying "the kingdom of heaven is at hand" {Matthew 3:2} one of the foremost prince of heaven (Michael) was transformed into an embryo and he became a man he is the one called Jesus of Nazareth and he came for the salvation of God's people so it's him that will bring back to life all those who are sleeping in death (not all the dead) and many will be tested for their faith so that some may gain eternal life while the rest return to grave permanently! Daniel 12:1-3

That's the import of what you just quoted nor that dead people will be somewhere roasted alive! Jeremiah 7:31

Daniel teaches that they would face eternal shame so clearly you are wrong. The meaning of eternal is endless. Simple English.
So you claim they would go permanently to the grave. According to you, can someone in the grave face eternal shame? This shows your translation is faulty

MaxInDHouse:
So it means those that will face eternal shame failed woefully that's what you supposed to know. They will be brought back to life and live for a thousand years as youths then in their own eyes many will continue living while they are exterminated just as it occurred in the days of Noah!

oga please read. A thousand years is not the eternal shame.

Abitolola:
That's a sea cow alright. They've already smashed it's head. No desire to study or preserve just eat.

Oga there are already enough studies on sea cows. It was caught by hunters, not scientists. Haba

MaxInDHouse:
Ọmọ God's word doesn't contradict itself there is no activity for the dead! Ecclesiastes 9:6

So if Jesus never came to contradict the laws and the prophets {Matthew 5:17} then it means those translators have done a poor job!

You are wrong
Was Daniel, not a prophet? He spoke about eternal shame for the wicked. Can a dead man feel shame?
Ecclesiastes says no activity for the dead not for the resurrected.

MaxInDHouse:
There are two Hebrew words that most Bible translators mixed together:

Sheoul (Grave) ~ place where the dead are COVERED to decay from the sight the living.

Gehenna (symbol of eternal damnation) ~ a valley behind Jerusalem where their refuse and carcasses of dead animals are thrown. In this valley fire is kept constantly due to the sulphur added to consume the refuse and worms there do eat the bodies of dead animals. The Jews believe in the resurrection of faithful servants of God so they treat their graves with respect {Joshua 24:32 compare to Act 7:15-16} but criminals and blasphemers aren't treated the same way rather their carcasses are thrown in Gehenna.

So when Jesus spoke of Gehenna his listeners fully grasp what he was saying that just as they often throw the carcasses of unwanted things into that valley that's exactly how God will treat unbelievers God will completely forgotten never to be remember during the resurrection of the dead! Compare to Psalms 9:17

Daniel 12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

A dead man feels no shame and contempt. It is impossible to die and at the same time have everlasting contempt.

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus was talking about GEHENNA not the grave (hell) it's confused translators that mixed it all up!

Revelations 14.11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever and they shall not rest day and night....

Revelations 20.10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Here are the words of Christ. Stop making Christ a liar. The wicked would be tormented day and night forever and ever. Are you saying Christ is wrong?

MaxInDHouse:
There are two Hebrew words that most Bible translators mixed together:

Sheoul (Grave) ~ place where the dead are COVERED to decay from the sight the living.

Gehenna (symbol of eternal damnation) ~ a valley behind Jerusalem where their refuse and carcasses of dead animals are thrown. In this valley fire is kept constantly due to the sulphur added to consume the refuse and worms there do eat the bodies of dead animals. The Jews believe in the resurrection of faithful servants of God so they treat their graves with respect {Joshua 24:32 compare to Act 7:15-16} but criminals and blasphemers aren't treated the same way rather their carcasses are thrown in Gehenna.

So when Jesus spoke of Gehenna his listeners fully grasp what he was saying that just as they often throw the carcasses of unwanted things into that valley that's exactly how God will treat unbelievers God will completely forgotten never to be remember during the resurrection of the dead! Compare to Psalms 9:17

Did you even read the verses I quoted?
So you seem to mix the whole thing up. Jesus Christ was not talking about people gnashing their teeth at him. please read carefully.
There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. He was talking of a future time after the resurrection.

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Jude 1.7 Speaks of eternal fire.

Again you messed up your translation of Revelations 20.10

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
it clearly says they shall be tormented day and night. please learn to read before commenting.

MaxInDHouse:
Let us first conclude on the original meaning of the English word "Hell" before going into the works of mistranslation by those who have translated what Jesus said in Hebrew to English!

So, every word has a history. That's why words have multiple meanings. So debating on the first meaning of a word really means little. Jesus Christ makes it clear that hell is a place of torment. Its more important to understand the sense in which Jesus Christ used the word.

And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

These are the very words of Jesus Christ

MaxInDHouse:
Webster agrees that the Old English origin of the word means cover. This word had nothing to do with a place of punishment or eternal torment. Those connotations came much later, just in time, we might say, to be corrupted by organized religion into its present form.

Google (What is the ORIGIN of the English word Hell)

Please read my last post to see how the bible describes hell ok. I quoted more than 10 verses for you.

MaxInDHouse:
Check an encyclopedia not the opinion people later circulated.
The original meaning of Hell according to God's word is grave that's why all servants of God in the Bible (including Jesus) are said to be in hell at death {Act 2:31; Job 14:13} but since the religionists have a contrary opinion their opinion was later added to dictionaries.

So check what the Bible said is the original meaning of hell not what churchgoers think!

I have taken the pain to give you all these verses from the bible. Hope these help answer your question.
In the bible, Jesus Christ used Hell to describe a place of torment in Luke 16.33.

In Revelation 20:14, Death and Hell are to separate elements. Not the same thing

Matthew 25.46 Talks about the wicked going into eternal punishment where there shall be weeping. Not death.

Jude 1.7 speaks of eternal 🔥fire

Revelations 20.10 And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.


Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”
Mark 9.47 47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Mark 9:43
And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire

Matthew 5:22
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire

Daniel 12:2
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Matthew 24:51
And will cut him in pieces and put him with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth

MaxInDHouse:
Check an encyclopedia not the opinion people later circulated.
The original meaning of Hell according to God's word is grave that's why all servants of God in the Bible (including Jesus) are said to be in hell at death but since the religionists have a contrary opinion their opinion was later added to dictionaries.


So check what the Bible said is the original meaning of hell not what churchgoers think!

Please quote the encyclopedia and link to it.

MaxInDHouse:
"The wicked shall retreat to the grave (hell) and all the nations that forget God"

So if you don't know the meaning of the old English (Hell) i have simplified it for you now go ahead and explain!

Hell has several meanings. Do you want to use the dictionary?

Boss I hope you get to read this.
Your wife has zero love for you. This marriage would make you a bitter man full of regrets, you wouldn't get to your full potentials and you may not even complete your years.
She is the only one enjoying the marriage. She doesn't want a divorce. Its not good for her in any way but she knows your are too scare of a divorce so she threatens you with it.
She sees you as weak and I guess she is right. She knows how to get her way with you.
Its time you take control. Don't fight about finances. Continue in your role as the provider but every other thing must change. She must cook and she must make love.
Demand for these things and if she fails, take action.
From now on she shouldn't sleep with the kids.
The possible actions you can take.
1. Report to parents or pastor
2. Insist she quits her job if she does not cook.
3. Stop running away from fights with her. Things need to get dirty before they are ironed out.
Stop falling for her divorce blackmail. Next time she brings it up, encouraged it and let her know it's ok with you. You would see she would be afraid to continue.

Janosky:

No be today you start.
DSpeaker said that much about you.
There is no cure for your werey on this forum..

The only differences between you are the guy quoted is that you attend difference churches and have difference beliefs but you have similar personalities and level of intelligence. And your credibility or lack of is about the same. In another world you could have been twins.
If the guy was JW, he would have been you.

MaxInDHouse:
Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
I'm not teaching you again since you want to explain.

Oya start with Psalms 9:17

The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.
Let me explain it with similar scriptures
John 5.29 ... and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Luke 13:28

28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
So God is telling us the faith of any individual or nation that forgets him.

Janosky:

No be today you start.
DSpeaker said that much about you.
There is no cure for your werey on this forum..

I love the way you quote this guy like he is your bible. I might have be a bit sad if it were someone credible you quoted. The Tag team of two strange bedfellows

MaxInDHouse:
Our God doesn't kill without a warning so all our great grandfathers and great grandmothers who worshiped idols but lived as prisoners of conscience will be remembered {Romans 2:14-15} it's whatever they choose to become after the opportunity to meet JWs in Paradise preaching and teaching in their neighbourhood that will determine their final judgement! Revelations 20:13
Just humble yourself and learn!


Prove you understand the Bible by explaining what those verses i quoted means!

First, I am ready to explain any verse you quoted so go ahead and quote.

Actually most deaths are without warning. So explain what you mean by God does not kill without a warning. Remember you claim that all death is as a result of sin.
Your grandma would be remembered? What do you even mean? Explain?
They would have to be resurrected before they meet JW in paradise.
This guesswork religion only gets funnier. Please provide scripture to prove these tales

MaxInDHouse:
Category C has been judged already but A & B will survive into Paradise where Jesus will rule for a thousand years. A limited number will be taken to heaven to rule with Christ this ones are saved completely but billions will live on planet earth during Christ's reign.
It's after Christ's reign that they will be tested to prove faithful to all the things they've learned during Christ's reign that's why John said second death could still catch up with many who live on planet earth! Revelations 20:5-6

So you want us to believe in your category doctrine and not the bible that teaches that all would resurrect right?

MaxInDHouse:
Category A and B are faithful people either in God's righteous standard or faithful to what they know while their conscience is working like compass.

Idolaters in this case are people who wilfully practice idolatry even after knowing what God said not people who had no opportunity to knowing God's word.

All these people are judged directly by God based on what they deliberately chose to do after knowing God's standard so they're category C!

Guess work religion. You claim the willfully practice after knowing God's words pls proof with scripture

Janosky:
Climate change causing flood and disasters come from God?

Oga, your comprehension problem is extra beyond ordinary.

Oga, sometimes you speak as if you never went to school. The climate has never been static. There has always been climate change. In fact the Noah event is a climate change. Its one of the greatest climate change in the history of earth.
Now I guess you are trying to say that floods are caused by human pollution of the climate but there has always been floods even before the current global warming.
Are you saying that JW members were immuned from pre global warming climate change?

Janosky:
The flood of Noah's day was not a natural disaster,it was divine judgement, announced by God many years before it began.

The flood did not cause harm to Noah.

A natural disaster doesn't distinguish evildoers and righteous servants of God.

\Oga don't be confused. God is in control of nature and the elements.
So let's see how weak your answer is.
You claim that the flood in the days of Noah is different from a flood that kills an innocent JW member. But they both come from God and they both accomplish the same result. Both the JW member and the sinner in Noah's time suffer the same death. I am sure it makes no sense even to you. You boys should learn to question your leaders. They are men like you. Don't just accept their false teachings.

MaxInDHouse:
That's what you supposed to ask instead of arguing blindly!

Category A
All ancient faithful servants of God have built a solid relationship with God so their names are in line for the RIGHTEOUS to be remembered! Hebrews 11:4-12:1

Category B
Pagans who lived by conscience have proved that their God's given conscience is working in them like a compass so during the resurrection they will be remembered! Romans 2:14-16

Category C
Apart from Adamic sin which leads to death of all humans whether righteous or unrighteous many have rendered their conscience dead.
Some even knew God's standard but defied it while others deliberately chose to be evil not minding what their God's given conscience say so at death they've been judged no resurrection for them! Psalms 9:17

Question 2
Using your bible, can you tell us the faith or the judgment of those in each category? Make it simple. For those in category A, what will be their judgment? For those in categories B and C, what would be their judgments too?

MaxInDHouse:
That's what you supposed to ask instead of arguing blindly!

Category A
All ancient faithful servants of God have built a solid relationship with God so their names are in line for the RIGHTEOUS to be remembered! Hebrews 11:4-12:1

Category B
Pagans who lived by conscience have proved that their God's given conscience is working in them like a compass so during the resurrection they will be remembered! Romans 2:14-16

Category C
Apart from Adamic sin which leads to death of all humans whether righteous or unrighteous many have rendered their conscience dead.
Some even knew God's standard but defied it while others deliberately chose to be evil not minding what their God's given conscience say so at death they've been judged no resurrection for them! Psalms 9:17

Question for you sir.
What Category, A, B, or C would you place these people?

Revelation 21:8

8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Note: Idolaters are basically pagans