₦airaland Forum

Parables!
Death is the ultimate wage for sin {Romans 6:23} First, how can you tell this is not a parable?
I see you added the word ultimate to the bible. Oga you are funny..

so when Jesus said those who end up in the second death will be tormented day and night forever it's a parable meaning people will always remember their stories just as we are remembering Sodom and Gomorrah as if the cities are still burning.
Its not a parable. You need it desperately to be a parable I understand. Jesus Christ never said it was a parable.

MaxInDHouse:
So in a nutshell when God told Adam:

"You will positively die" Genesis 2:17

And Satan told Eve

"You will not positively die" Genesis 3:4

God was the liar while Satan is the one saying the truth shey?

Clap for yourself!

Oga are you not wise? Did Adam and Eve not die? How was God a liar? All God said would happen to them happened. Are you angry because God resurrected them?

MaxInDHouse:
I don hear you!

The JW believe that it's the innocent that would be tormented by the memory of the sinners is pure madness and it's not based in any scripture

MaxInDHouse:
Only those outside the Ark were destroyed by God's anger and according to Jesus all those outside Noah's ark are God's enemies!

Even Noah and his family got to die so what's your point. I bet Noah is no longer alive

MaxInDHouse:
Diversion tactics!

Explain.

MaxInDHouse:
Ọmọ that's a PARABLE!

Reading alone is not the key to the knowledge of God rather careful reading, diligent study, thorough meditation and fervent prayer is what is required to gain ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE of God's word! Proverbs 2:1-5

Oga just because you want God's word to be a parable does not make it a parable.

[quote author=MaxInDHouse post=122462291]If you're intelligent you will know that whenever anything is spoken that contradicts reality then the one speaking is either joking or speaking in parables!
You obviously are not intelligent enough to know the definition of a parable. A parable does not have to contradict reality. Infact a parable mostly uses articles and real life possibilities to tell stories. That's why in the parables, Jesus does not talk of people flying or lions speaking. A parable is not a fable. You need to apply your intelligence oga

In death there's no activity {Ecclesiastes 9:5-10} so when Jesus talk about someone doing anything while dead then his listeners know that he was speaking in parables! Matthew 13:13, 34 First in resurrection, their is activity also even in death, it's only the body that is inactive not the spirit 1peter 3.19-20

WRITTEN in parables! [/quote]Oga proof it was a parable. It was never stated that it was a parable. The bible always informs when it is a parable. Please start reading to learn these things.

[quote author=MaxInDHouse post=122461308]Illustration!


Death is the opposite of life so there's nothing happening to anyone who has died. That's why the Bible calls the ultimate judgment "Second Death" {Revelations 20:14} no literal teeth gnashes there!
The bible tells that the second death would be the eternal torment of the wicked Revelations 20.10. please be reading your bible.

MaxInDHouse:
That's why he laid down his life to end it once and for all time so that when God's Kingdom comes all those things will be gone for good!

So the notion that Christ has no bone to bear suffering is another false JW teaching.

MaxInDHouse:
He destroyed babies in Noah's days, Sodom and Gomorrah, Jericho, Amalek even when the Jews became rebellious.
So stop deceiving yourself!

Everyone dies including babies and everyone resurrects including babies.

MaxInDHouse:
Death is like a relief for any suffering creature God created life for His children (humans) to enjoy it {Genesis 1:26-28} He wants us to enjoy every moment of it to the full that's why He detests it when humans brings pain and suffering upon their fellow humans {Ecclesiastes 4:1; 8:9} so when humans alienated themselves from God He knew that the suffering will be much that's why He declared death upon them reducing their days {Genesis 6:3} and to the minimum of 70-80 {Psalms 90:10} so they can go and bring Him no more heart break because His eyes are too pure to continue looking unto the suffering of His children! Habakkuk 1:13

So if Satan now confused you into thinking this same person will now sustain humans in pains not for seconds or minutes or hours or days or weeks or years but forever.

Then it means you know nothing about our happy God! 1Timothy 1:11

Yes God wants everyone to be happy that's why he gave us his gospel. He wants everyone including little children to find salvation. He does not delight in a sinner Lossing his soul.
Ezekiel 33:11
So why do you believe he would destroy the sinners.
You believe he would even destroy innocent babies. Baba your God is wicked. I worship a God that would punish only the evil, not babies.

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus that can't bear the sight of people suffering {John 11:35} will now tell you that suffering will be for ever shey?

Ọmọ you know nothing about Jesus of Nazareth!

You talk as a child. Every single day, Jesus Christ watches billions of humans suffer of sickness, poverty, wars, heartbreaks, and so on. Please come up with another excuse.
So because Jesus Christ cried for the lost of a friend you really think he does not have the capacity to see billions suffer? Sorry to burst your bubble, everyday he watches billions of humans suffer and die.
Again your argument is unwise because if Jesus Christ can't bear people dying as in the case of Lazarus, why do you think he wouldn't resurrect everyone?

[quote author=MaxInDHouse post=122457195]You believe eternal damnation but you think the damned will not return to dust rather they will be preserved alive [b]
gnashing their teeth it's not about what I think it's clearly written in your bible.

Perhaps you don't know that teeth is made up of bones and bones are part of the human body God formed from the dust.
Oga did they not teach you that dead men don't weep, wail, and gnash their teeth?

So if those in your eternal hellfire still possess bones then how do you reconcile that with the pronouncement of God that sinners will return to dust? Genesis 3:15; Psalms 104:29 Ecclesiastes 3:20; 12:7
Its funny you asked this question because we have both answered it. All have sinned so all would return to the dust. That includes you. Does that answer your question now?
Now the bible did not tell how long they would be in the dust. But the bible teaches that the earth would give up it's dead. All would be resurrected and judged. Everything I have said is written in your bible.

MaxInDHouse:
That's what i'm telling you, humble yourself and learn!

Death and Grave aren't living persons that sinned to be punished then use your sense the Lake Of Fire symbolize what will never be recalled to mind!

Hell fire could be symbolism but it does not represent what can't be recalled to live. We are already told that it represents eternal torment. Do you get it now?
Its interesting, we both believe in eternal punishment the only difference is that I believe the bible that says the sinner would suffer eternal punishment.
While you believe that it's the innocent that would suffer eternal punishment in memory of the sinner. JW God is a clown

MaxInDHouse:
OLÓDO!

It's two destination.
A part will live forever while the others will die forever. Simple as ABC!

According to JW but according to Jesus Christ, they would be tormented forever. My brother how would I leave Jesus Christ and believe you?

MaxInDHouse:
Ọ̀DẸ̀!

How can they be tormented (in fire) forever if He said such idea hasn't come into His heart? Jeremiah 7:31

Obviously you don't understand what you read. Now let me educate you on Jeremiah 7.31

31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart.

Now you have read it. God never said he was against the eternal torment of the wicked. He only said he was against the people burning their sons.
On the other hand, in Revelations 20.10
Teaches that the wicked would be tormented forever.
Do you now understand?

MaxInDHouse:
Well He said sinners will DIE {Genesis 2:17} not tormented alive Sir! Jeremiah 7:31

You are right all sinners would die.
But your knowledge is incomplete.
Because he also said they would be resurrected.
And he also said they would be tormented for all eternity.
So your knowledge stopped where he said all sinners would die and you forgot to update.

MaxInDHouse:
Lóbátán.

You can't explain further!

Guy go and learn the ultimate wage for sin is DEATH! Romans 6:7, 23

That's what the Bible called the second death!

What further explanation do you want more than the words of Christ. They would be resurrected and they would inherit the kingdom of Heaven. What more do you want the bible to tell you?

MaxInDHouse:
This is getting more interesting!

So death and grave will be tormented shey? Revelations 20:14

It says they would be cast in fire. You are free to argue with the word of God. Remember no be mi write am

MaxInDHouse:
Do you have any believe at all?

I believe that God is not a liar. You should try that sometimes

MaxInDHouse:
YES! Judgment comes after resurrection but at the same time the ultimate punishment is DEATH.
So after resurrection they will die a second time! Revelations 20:14-15

The second death is torment. The definition of the second death is death and hell cast into a lake of fire.
The second death has nothing to do with anyone dying.
Infact the verse you quoted shows the end of death as the second death.

MaxInDHouse:
The highlighted is hilarious indeed!

Oya explain what happened to babies that die in Noah's days if they're not God's enemies!

Like Jesus Christ taught all would be resurrected and judged
John. 5.27-28.
And as Jesus Christ said Children would inherit the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 19.14
Just read your bible and you wouldn't be asking me to explain these simple things to you.

MaxInDHouse:
The inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah are gone but the name of those cities is like torment to whoever knows what it means.
So whether you accept it or not the Jews that heard Jesus fully understood that the dead had no feelings {Ecclesiastes 9:6} it's the living that will feel bad being mentioned in connection with those that God punished!

So you are saying Christ was wrong. The torment is not for the wicked but those that know the wicked right?
Infact, you are trying to correct Christ for saying the wicked would be tormented not those that know the wicked.
Also Ecclesiastes 9:6 has nothing to do with this because we learn that the Judgement comes after resurrection.

MaxInDHouse:
Ọ̀gbẹ́ni there's no Lake Of Fire anywhere it simply means death without a hope of resurrection for humans and conditions that will be done away with for good.

That's what it means:

And death and the Grave were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire! Revelations 20:14

So the Lake Of Fire symbolize what will never be called to mind again, Satan, demons, false prophets, false religions, death and grave will never be heard again in the lives of those who survived into God's Kingdom.

That's what it means!

So you call God a liar right? Or you are smarter than Christ. Who do we believe? You or Christ?

MaxInDHouse:
God told Adam:

But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die! Genesis 2:17

Satan told Eve:

“You certainly will not die" Genesis 3:4

Satan has been promoting this lie for thousands of years but God keep His own people duly informed regarding what happens at death! Ecclesiastes 9 5-10; Romans 6:7, 23

That's why you need to study the Bible with JWs otherwise you will continue to remain speechless regarding this things saying you're catching fun when interested individuals are learning!

All the scriptures your quoted have nothing to do with resurrecting and eternal torment.
The verses you quoted do not oppose Resurrection and the torment of the wicked.
Unlike you, I do not agree with some verses and oppose others. These verses go hand in hand

So according to God's word DEATH is the ultimate punishment for sin not torment
Now let's read God's words to know if you are right. And this is no parable.

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

[quote author=MaxInDHouse post=122449383]You can believe whatever suit you but the one who created everything said:

They have built the high places of Toʹpheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinʹnom, in order [color=red]to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that I had not commanded and that had never even come into my heart this is talking about idol worship. What does it have to do with eternal torment of the wicked.

Paul said:

[b]For the one who has died has been acquitted from his sin Another topic that has nothing to do with the topic.

For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23 This is why we all die. But in Christ all men would resurrect

So according to God's word DEATH is the ultimate punishment for sin not torment. God never said death is an ultimate punishment it's you saying it. Please lets depend on God's words not your opinion

MaxInDHouse:
Ọmọ Jews feel like relating with people who died as faithful worshipers of God but anyone who died as an unbeliever they don't want to be mentioned in connection with such a person!

That's not the question here. The question is who suffers torment forever and ever. The living Jews of the unbelievers

MaxInDHouse:
Naaaaaaaaaaaaa. You have forgotten that this has to do with the Jews who has a different thought regarding shame not a black man like you who feel it's only when you're alive that shame is on you.

To a Jew shame is for those who failed not those that succeed. So anyone who failed to continue living after a thousand years of Christ reign is the one with everlasting shame because his friends will never like to feel being his friends again.

Ok, the Jews feel shame in death but the black men feel shame only while alive?
So the dead Jews feel shame for eternity how?

MaxInDHouse:
Ọmọ it simply means people who heard of them will never like to relate with them just as you won't hear anyone who will like to think about having anything to do with Sodom and Gomorrah!

How does this relate to their eternal torment and shame.
So according to JW, the bible is wrong for telling us that these evil people would suffer torment forever rather we should believe the new JW teaching that no one would relate to them right?

MaxInDHouse:
Was his death a punishment from God?

If not then the hope of seeing him again will linger in your heart but let's imagine that he was caught with a gang of robbers and after he was convicted sentenced to death by hanging of course you will continue to feel he's gone forever never to be your friend again.

That's what it means!

So according to JW, when the bible says that the wicked would be tormented forever, it means that their friends would be tormented in their behalf right?