₦airaland Forum

Janosky:
When Jehovah your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you—, 2 and when the Lord your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy"


— Drive out the the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, destroy them totally.

Oga,use the brain God gave you

I see your point is clear You do not believe that Children are God's heritage and reward. You believe they are his enemies. At least, you are more direct than MaxInDHouse. He seems to believe all 3. I love your confused honesty though.

AntiChristian:
That means you understand both religion so well!
He doesn't understand jack!
He only understood what he could copy to denigrate Islam. That's not an understanding of Islam.
And mind you, I was a practicing Christian earlier in life!
So you lied!

It really does not matter if you were a Christian, And it's funny you claim he only understands what he could copy to denigrate Islam when most of the time you try to evade his questions .
But then both of you are up to the same game only on different sides. While you never seem to have answers to him, the Christian folks always have answers to your questions.

MaxInDHouse:
The ability to reproduce has been GIVEN to Adam and all his descendants that's the GIFT but then as descendants of Adam all have sinned and fallen short of God's glory {Romans 3:23} so death rules as King among Adam's descendants {Romans 5:17} JEHOVAH is not the God of the dead but of the living {Luke 20:38} only those who have built a relationship with Him are living to Him because their names has been written in His memory book {Malachi 3:16 compare to John 11:25} but all others including babies who never built a relationship with Him are DEAD from God's viewpoint! Luke 9:60

So even though all human lives belongs to God (not only babies) yet all are His enemies until they're able to build a relationship with Him like Abel did and His name was written as the first Jehovah's Witness among Adam's descendants! Hebrews 11:4

So the JW conclusion is that all children are God's gifts and heritage and all children belong to him yet they are His enemies. Am I quoting you right?

Janosky:
ADD Deuteronomy 7:2 & verses of the holy scriptures in the screenshots into your skull.

You guys always embrace daftness.

Boss, you have shown 3 different verses that do not even attempt the simple question so let me ask the question once more in case you did not understand.
Psalms 127.3 Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.
Now, are children God's heritage (special possession), his reward (gift), and his enemies at the same time?
Please explain how Deuteronomy 7:2 answers the question.

The children people are bearing aren't theirs but God's so like a strong archer parents should be skillful in directing their children (not to do their own will) but the will of God. Proverbs 22:6
I love this your quote. So all children come from God, right? The children don't belong to us but to God. Since we both agree then is JW telling us that these children belong to God but they are his enemies and he gives them to us as gifts yet somehow, they are his heritage (special possessions)?
I just want to be sure that we understand ourselves.

MaxInDHouse:
Well all you need is humble yourself and learn from Jehovah's Witnesses because that book you're quoting is written by our people so only members of our organization can teach you what is in our book: Bible!

Let's study that chapter from verse one to the end instead of cherry picking a verse out of context!

Unless Jehovah builds the house, It is in vain that its builders work hard on it. Unless Jehovah guards the city, It is in vain that the guard stays awake. 2 It is in vain that you rise up early, That you stay up late, That you toil for your food, Since he provides for his loved ones while giving them sleep.
Raising and Training children is like building a house or watching over a city so the builder or watchman will labour in vain if care is not taken!

3 Look! Sons are an inheritance from Jehovah; The fruit of the womb is a reward. 4 Like arrows in the hand of a mighty man, So are the sons of one’s youth.
The children people are bearing aren't theirs but God's so like a strong archer parents should be skillful in directing their children (not to do their own will) but the will of God. Proverbs 22:6


5 Happy is the man who fills his quiver with them. They will not be put to shame, For they will speak with enemies in the city gate.

Whoever succeed in doing this will receive a prize because by the time Satan is stealing the ones who aren't taught God's will and making them a menace in the society so that their parents are crying and wailing due to killings here and there which is Satan's work {John 8:44} parents whose children has been taught God's word from infancy will become a blessing in the society! 2Timothy 3:15-17

That's the import of what David said in that Psalm!

We both agree with all you have written so back to my question. Are Children still God's heritage? Are they still his reward? Did the sin of Adam prevent them from being his heritage and his reward?
In fact, one does not need to be a JW to know and agree with all you have written but I need you to address my questions.

Imagine the billions pur government has wasted on developing a rice industry was spent on cassava development.
We left our true potential to pursue a foolish endeavor.
Today, we are still importing rice and we don't have an organized cassava industry.

MaxInDHouse:
They are gifts from God in the sense that they came as a result of the ability God gave humans to reproduce but through Adamic sin they've become God's enemies awaiting death anytime anyday at any point in their life! Romans 5:12

Are children still gifts and heritage of God or did the Adamic sin stop them from being God's gift and heritage.
Note: psalms 127.3 was written hundreds of years after the Adamic sin.
Also, Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow.

MaxInDHouse:
First of all we are NOT your brothers because we're not related to you in anyway. There are three ways people can be said to relate as brothers: blood, business and faith.
Blood: born of the same family so you will think alike in many areas due to being of the same background.
Business: engage in the same kind of trade so you will think alike in many areas due to being of the same trade.
Faith: believing (trusting) in the same God so you will think alike in many areas due to having the same God.

You're not related to us in any of these three so you can only be our neighbour since you're human living on this planet at the same time with us so you have few things in common with us when talking about line of thought!

Children comes through reproduction so God's word is telling you that the ability to reproduce is from God therefore the life of that child is precious in the eyes of God that's why He instructed His people to make sure they inculcate in the minds of those children His laws. Deuteronomy 6:6-7

Meanwhile after Adam's rebellion in the garden of Eden all the children born through Adam have inherited sin so they're under the curse placed on Adam that's why they will die even though they don't know what they're doing and no record will be made to recall them. But if they survived to the stage of knowing God's people they will be blessed by their relationship with God's people so their names will be recorded in God's memory book for resurrection. Many may not know the righteousness of God among them but if they grow up and start struggling with their God's given conscience to do what they know is good they will also be remembered for that! Romans 2:14-15

So let's summarize
Children are God's gift (reward) to man.
Children are God's heritage (special possession)
And at the same time they are God's enemies according to you.
So in short, JWs believe that God's gift and special possession is also his enemy.
Am I correct in my summary of your beliefs?

For our 2 nairaland JW brothers Janosky and MaxInDHouse, can you kindly explain Psalms 127.3 Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.
Please explain it in line with the topic that children are enemies of God. Also, I would love to know if the verse is a parable.

xendra:
Most men have refused to grow up and most mothers are so greedy and sad in their marriage that they deliberately refuse to tell their sons the truth.

Mothers know it is not their right to their son's properties if he has a wife but greed will not let them tell him, as long has he wants to be stupid they let him be.

While marriage is a complex relationship, it is clear in this very case that he might have saved a good portion of his wealth by trusting his mother more than his wife.
Every case is different but in this case, the young man made a wise decision. He would have been poorer trusting his wife.

AntiChristian:
What's actually pathetic is how you Christians tell brazen lies against Islam!
We fell for the truth while you are on falsehood!

TenQ = NairaLTQ = Shadeyinka

Same Interlinear that they can't use for their Bible to correct it!
No be everyday we go dey get time to debunk your falsehoods!

Muslims know you are notorious liars! It doesn't matter whether we respond or not, you'll keep arguing endlessly!
Your eyes, ears, cerebrum and cerebellum has been blocked!

The only differences between you and TenQ are your religion and he seems to understand the Quran and Islam more than you understand the bible and Christianity.
Otherwise you are the same passenger on different ships.

FreedomfromtheT:
It is traditional for some religious groups to organize prayers for their dead members. Some relatives of the deceased usually carry the corpse to the place the late person used to worship for prayers.
Others offer prayers for the repose of the soul of the dead before internment.
Even after burial, some observe 8 days, 40 days, a year prayers etc for God to forgive the sins of the departed one and grant him or her eternal rest.
Even some religious adherents who don't believe in praying for the dead would be quick to type RIP to show their love.
Do people's prayers really avail after death?

I would not answer your question but I would only add some verses from the bible.
Hebrews 11
35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

38 (Of whom the world was not worthy they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

The last verse states that all these people who have died without us should not be made perfect.
The question is, what role do we play in the lives of the dead?

MaxInDHouse:
The funny thing here is that you are human as i am and both of us are quoting the same book but interpreting it differently so if you say i'm being dishonest that's exactly what I also feel about you.
So who will settle this matter?
Well i believe it's the Son of the Author {John 3:16} through whose office humans were inspired to pen down these things! John 1:1
He declared that for anyone to gain the accurate knowledge of what was written the first thing to do is read these words carefully, study diligently, meditate thoroughly and pray fervently! Proverbs 2:1-5
But dishonest and insincere humans will also claim they have done all that so what will be the sign that honest hearted and sincere ones need to see in order to be certain that they are getting things right?
He promised saying: By their FRUITS you will recognize each gathering of imperfect humans {Matthew 7:16-18} because their sinful flesh is powerful much more than them {Romans 7:15-25} so the gathering of dishonest and insincere humans will be characterized by the works of their flesh {Galatians 5:19-21} while the gathering of honest hearted and sincere people will be controlled by God's Holy Spirit! Galatians 5:22-23
So by the time the gathering of imperfect humans who are gaining accurate knowledge of God are performing up to expectations {Isaiah 2:2-4} the gathering of imperfect humans who have no understanding will be turn apart as they won't agree on terms and conditions of worship! Luke 11:23
Today you keep arguing claiming you're quoting God's word but instead of presenting a practical application so we can consider the benefits of your interpretation you just feel that's not needed. Well i will present to the whole world the group that's applying what i'm saying in a practical sense (Jehovah's Witnesses) as they have formed one big and happy family {John 17:22} of peace loving worshipers {Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3} as foretold by Christ Jesus the Son of God!
That is the one and only living evidence Jesus promised us that we will see if we are doing things right! Mark 10:28-30

Another example of your dishonesty. Everything you have written above only show your dishonesty. First nothing you have written relates to the topic on ground.
Secondly, we have debated all these before and you know my stand.
This is clearly an attempt to flee and deflect from the present discuss. And it's a shame.
It seems you guys actually take pride in your dishonesty.
You claim that everything the new testament says about the eternal torment of the wicked is a parable then I bring up Daniel in the old testament and you want to deflect.
Again, I have always known that you are quite intelligent so when you pretend not to know the simple meaning of a parable, that in itself is dishonest.
We both know that parable is a form of storytelling. So when you decide that any revelation that does not go your way suddenly becomes a parable, oga that is fraudulent.

KingSatan:
I said "The world". Please learn some English.

You don't have a valid point. The world did not ban Chinese companies when they banned Facebook and the likes so why should the world ban American companies for banning a Chinese company.
You need to learn how the world works.

KingSatan:
The US and Monopoly.

When will the world start blocking the USA?

China was actually the first to ban all US social media companies. Please do your research.

Debater:
If you notice, the Americans are swiftly against everything Chinese
After Obama calmed things down, Donald Trump sparked the fire again.
Now, last month I was watching US Senate (Congress) debate on restricting or even banning TikTok.
They claimed that TikTok spies on its users and saves their personal information into their database.
China is now debating on banning Facebook and all Meta products.
Nawa for child's play
The world is just watching these two strong countries fight like babies

What are you saying? Facebook, Amazon, Google, Whatsapp, Instagram, Pinterest, are all banned in China. They have been banned for many years now. Please do your research

iHateFraudsters:
When the world starts blocking US products, na then they go know say no be only them dey block.

They blocking Chinese products because they perform better then theirs.

While I am against blocking of products it's actually the Chinese that started this.
Facebook, Amazon, Google, Whatsapp, Instagram, Pinterest, and many more are all banned in China.

MaxInDHouse:
The funny thing here is that you are human as i am and both of us are quoting the same book but interpreting it differently so if you say i'm being dishonest that's exactly what I also feel about you.
So who will settle this matter?
Well i believe it's the Son of the Author {John 3:16} through whose office humans were inspired to pen down these things! John 1:1
He declared that for anyone to gain the accurate knowledge of what was written the first thing to do is read these words carefully, study diligently, meditate thoroughly and pray fervently! Proverbs 2:1-5
But dishonest and insincere humans will also claim they have done all that so what will be the sign that honest hearted and sincere ones need to see in order to be certain that they are getting things right?
He promised saying: By their FRUITS you will recognize each gathering of imperfect humans {Matthew 7:16-18} because their sinful flesh is powerful much more than them {Romans 7:15-25} so the gathering of dishonest and insincere humans will be characterized by the works of their flesh {Galatians 5:19-21} while the gathering of honest hearted and sincere people will be controlled by God's Holy Spirit! Galatians 5:22-23
So by the time the gathering of imperfect humans who are gaining accurate knowledge of God are performing up to expectations {Isaiah 2:2-4} the gathering of imperfect humans who have no understanding will be turn apart as they won't agree on terms and conditions of worship! Luke 11:23
Today you keep arguing claiming you're quoting God's word but instead of presenting a practical application so we can consider the benefits of your interpretation you just feel that's not needed. Well i will present to the whole world the group that's applying what i'm saying in a practical sense (Jehovah's Witnesses) as they have formed one big and happy family {John 17:22} of peace loving worshipers {Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3} as foretold by Christ Jesus the Son of God!
That is the one and only living evidence Jesus promised us that we will see if we are doing things right! Mark 10:28-30

Let me point out your dishonesty with another example. You once said that Jesus Christ can't bear to see people suffer and you pointed to the case of Lazarus only for you to in another place tell me that the wicked would be sentenced to death by burning. Your doctrine is all over the place. It contradicts itself.
So those of us that are true seekers of the truth cannot fall for such.

MaxInDHouse:
The funny thing here is that you are human as i am and both of us are quoting the same book but interpreting it differently so if you say i'm being dishonest that's exactly what I also feel about you.
So who will settle this matter?
Well i believe it's the Son of the Author {John 3:16} through whose office humans were inspired to pen down these things! John 1:1
He declared that for anyone to gain the accurate knowledge of what was written the first thing to do is read these words carefully, study diligently, meditate thoroughly and pray fervently! Proverbs 2:1-5
But dishonest and insincere humans will also claim they have done all that so what will be the sign that honest hearted and sincere ones need to see in order to be certain that they are getting things right?
He promised saying: By their FRUITS you will recognize each gathering of imperfect humans {Matthew 7:16-18} because their sinful flesh is powerful much more than them {Romans 7:15-25} so the gathering of dishonest and insincere humans will be characterized by the works of their flesh {Galatians 5:19-21} while the gathering of honest hearted and sincere people will be controlled by God's Holy Spirit! Galatians 5:22-23
So by the time the gathering of imperfect humans who are gaining accurate knowledge of God are performing up to expectations {Isaiah 2:2-4} the gathering of imperfect humans who have no understanding will be turn apart as they won't agree on terms and conditions of worship! Luke 11:23
Today you keep arguing claiming you're quoting God's word but instead of presenting a practical application so we can consider the benefits of your interpretation you just feel that's not needed. Well i will present to the whole world the group that's applying what i'm saying in a practical sense (Jehovah's Witnesses) as they have formed one big and happy family {John 17:22} of peace loving worshipers {Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3} as foretold by Christ Jesus the Son of God!
That is the one and only living evidence Jesus promised us that we will see if we are doing things right! Mark 10:28-30

Its funny when you claim that your problem is a simple case of misinterpretation. Your issues are much more than that.
Let me give you an example.
You created a story from thin air that innocent people would be tormented for the sins of the evil once. That is pure dishonesty. Its not taught anywhere in the scriptures but the JW created it to defend their position.
You also decided that everything that does not agree with your teachings is a parable. This is not only dishonest, it's also lazy.
Your leader teaches you that children are God's enemies while the bible teaches that Children are indeed a heritage from the LORD, and the fruit of the womb is His reward. Yet you choose to believe and defend a false teacher. I can go on and on.
Your fruits are dishonesty and fake guesswork.
We have never had a debate without you relying completely on guesswork.

MaxInDHouse:
If with all your arguments you can't present a fruit of your faith then all your arguments are worthless! Matthew 7:16-18

I have nothing to present to you but the truth as found in the gospel and if the fruit of your faith is dishonesty and guesswork then it's the case of the pot calling the kettle black

MaxInDHouse:
At least millions across the globe have learned to become peacelovers through what we preach and teach!

That's a topic for another day. There is no good excuse for a false teaching

MaxInDHouse:
Intelligent question!

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth {Genesis 1:1} all what concerns man and his living is right here on earth and at death man return to the ground {Genesis 3:19} out of which he was taken {Genesis 2:7} the force powering his breathe returns to the one who gave him! Psalms 146:4; Ecclesiastes 12:7

That's what all the prophets believe and thought until Jesus came teaching in parables {Matthew 13:13, 34 compare to Psalms 78:2} that's why his disciples needs to learn from him how to use parables in their teachings as well.

So whenever we read anything in the Christian Greek Scriptures (New Testament) that's not in harmony with what we have found in the Hebrew-Aramaic Scriptures (Old Testament) then we know it's in parables that we need to find out it's meaning by the help of God's Holy Spirit.

Do you want me to test your ability on things found written in the Christian Greek Scriptures most especially in the Bible book of Revelation?

Please don't say you can't explain and it must be rendered unexplainable because we must preach and teach to convince all our listeners that our book (Bible) makes perfect sense!

So are you ready?

Ok I now understand your point. When ever a JW person does not understand the new testament, it becomes a parable.
But oga you forget that Daniel is in the old testament.
He told of the eternal shame of the wicked. So was that also a parable?
Daniel or Ecclesiastes which is your parable?
Same Ecclesiastes teaches that the spirit at death returns back to God. Is that also a parable?

MaxInDHouse:
Go out there and preach what you know!

But it seems you don't know what you are preaching. How can you tell Ecclesiastes is not a parable but Peter is a parable

MaxInDHouse:
Get used to the fact that it's only when you're sincere with yourself that you can gain wisdom not when you're deceiving yourself claiming you're catching fun!

Loool
I have always depended on the bible not on guesswork so you are the dishonest one here.

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus was DEAD for three days and in the grave there's no activity {Ecclesiastes 9:5-10} it's not rocket science my guy this is accurate knowledge. You can't just pick up a verse and trash the other you must strike a balance.

If the dead can't do anything and Jesus was dead then anything said about him while in the grave are spoken in parables. Simple as ABC!

Simple question how do you decide which one is the parable. Ecclesiastes 9:5-10 could be your parable.
You are clearly on your guesswork path.

MaxInDHouse:
The DEAD are unconscious that's what all the prophets believe and thought before Jesus came using parables to teach.
So if anything is found in his teachings that contradicts what the prophets have said with inspiration then it simply means parables!

You use guesswork to decide which is a parable.
Oga, you are only qouting a verse from Ecclesiastes. You are not quoting all the prophets and clearly you don't understand what you are quoting.
The same Ecclesiastes says the spirit goes back to God.
Your point is, Ecclesiastes could not be a parable but Christ word is a parable and same with Peter?
So you use guesswork to decide which is a parable

MaxInDHouse:
There you go again!
Jesus was DEAD, he was helpless so it couldn't have been preaching literally!

So you think Revelations 20.10 is a parable but
Ecclesiastes 9:5-10 is not a parable, why?
Is 1 Peter 3.18 -20 also a parable?
How about 1peter 4:6, is it also a parable?

MaxInDHouse:
There you go again!
Jesus was DEAD, he was helpless so it couldn't have been preaching literally!

So the bible is lying.
Read again 1 Peter 4.6

MaxInDHouse:
Guy double response to a single post as usual!

It doesn't matter. The goal here is to educate you on the bible. Both responses would be of help to you. Its only for you good.

MaxInDHouse:
Naaaaaaaaaaaaa.
His demise became a warning to rebellious angels that it's possible to send them back to none existence. That's what it means.

Throughout those three days Jesus was DEAD as in can't do anything according to what God's word said about those in the grave! Ecclesiastes 9:5-10

Lol you and guesswork. The bible clearly stated he went to preach to the spirits in prison.
Now let me use your own argument on you.
Ecclesiastes 9:5-10 could easily be a parable. Remember Christ is the word of God and all revelations come from Christ.
Since you believe that every revelation from Christ is a parable, then according to your argument, Ecclesiastes 9:5-10 is a parable.
But thanks to the words of Peter, we receive more truth.
Read the verse below and learn the word of God.
1 Peter 4.6
In fact, this is why the good news was declared also to the dead,+ so that although they are judged in the flesh from the standpoint of men, they might live in harmony with the spirit from God’s standpoint

I quoted this directly from the JW bible. The gospel is taught also to the dead. So you are so wrong.
I advise you read verse 5 first. You would learn that God would judge both the living and the dead. This tells you that you are wrong all along. Even the dead would be judged. And the gospel is taught to the dead.

MaxInDHouse:
Naaaaaaaaaaaaa.
His demise became a warning to rebellious angels that it's possible to send them back to none existence. That's what it means.

Throughout those three days Jesus was DEAD as in can't do anything according to what God's word said about those in the grave! Ecclesiastes 9:5-10

Again you apply your funny guesswork. The bible says he preach to the spirits not his demise was a warning. Let's stick to the bible oga.