₦airaland Forum

derecho:
And I should take your word because?

Because God is perfect. Jealousy is petty, weak, and imperfect.

derecho:
So I was the one who called God Jealous? You didn't see it in the Bible?

I just told you it's a wrong translation in the English Bible

derecho:
mistranslation?
Kikikiki

Your challenge is you can't wrap your head round the truth because it doesn't make sense to you using the English dictionary.

This sentence you made does not make much sense and let me tell you why. If I for example call you a thief then I claim 'thief' means something else, wouldn't you still feel insulted?
You just called God jealous but now you want to change the meaning of jealous, does that make any sense?
But you and I know that God does not have a jealousy problem but you want to pretend that jealousy means something beautiful.

derecho:
You dey make me laff.
The truth is different from opinions or what you expect it to be.

Except you are saying God doesn't know what He's saying or that God is weak.

The letter killeth but the Spirit giveth life.

Now concerning what you wrote.
Who told you a father or mother can't be Jealous over one's children?

Secondly, what's the relationship between Christ and the Church?
No be husband and wife?

In as much as I try to explain it with everyday examples, you can't fully understand spiritual things with a carnal mind.

The most important thing you said was; 'The letter killeth but the Spirit giveth life.'
I gave the example of the kids to show that love has nothing to do with jealousy. Jealousy comes from suspicion, fear, and envy. The word jealousy is a mistranslation.

derecho:
Jealousy doesn't necessarily breed envy.
Just as Eating is part of.our everyday life, if not controlled can make one a glutton.Jealousy if not controlled, can.

That said,
Just as anyone with a bile can get.angry, anyone who truly loves a thing protects it from abuse.
You may not protect a public toilet as you would your personal toilet even if you are given to hygiene.
God is Jealous and protective of us because He knows we become our best in/with Him.

Healthy Jealousy is a proof that something is dear to you and you care.
It is a component of love.

Jealousy here has to do with emotional pain not weakness.

I just gave you the definitions of jealousy. You could look in the dictionary for more definitions.
But then let me give you more insight. As a man, you are never jealous of your sons or daughters but you are jealous of your wife. You love your sons and daughters so clearly, jealousy is not about love. It's about fear.
You are afraid to lose your wife to other men hence when a man smiles at her, you begin to get worked up. That is pure weakness. God is not like that.

Sergio103:
Worst curse you can put yourself into.

Even if I'm an atheist.......I will never disrespect jah.

It's no big deal pastor spend the contribution everyday. The guy was only trying to be a pastor.

derecho:
You are mistaking Jealousy with Envy.
The ALMIGHTY God described Himself as Jealous and you call it Weakness?

Fear is not Jealousy

No, I am not. Jealousy breeds envy.
Here are some definitions of jealousy.

Feeling or showing an envious resentment of someone or their achievements, possessions, or perceived advantages.

feeling or showing a resentful suspicion that one's partner is attracted to or involved with someone else.

derecho:
I can't even piece together what you're saying.

But if you are wondering why God is jealous, then you must understand what it means to be jealous.
There's no true love without an element of Jealousy.
God is unhappy when His creature, man especially, is showing devotion to lesser beings- the devil inclusive.

He so love us, that He gave His Only begotten Son...

So if you want to use your human senses to understand it,look at it this way:
You love a girl so much, gave up everything for her, tried to protect her from harm NOT just out of pity but because of True love. After all your work and sacrifice, one useless guy is the one she's running after.How would you feel especially if she's all you want?How would you feel when you are deprived of lovely lady who lavishing her loyalty to a worthless thing?

God created us for His pleasure and no one can imagine How much He loves us.
It's only natural to feel jealous when the attention is elsewhere.

Summary,
God is Love and Jealousy (not envy) is part of Love.

Hope you know God is not only Jealous but says His name is Jealous?

Jealousy is a sign of weakness and lack of trust. Jealousy is negative energy. Jealousy is not part of love. Jealousy comes with suspicion and fear. In perfect love, there is no fear.
1 John 4:18

babyfaceafrica:
Google has pvc?

Yes

Obidient4life2:
Hew, what kind of neck pressing is this? Obidients Abeg naa

Please let's continue to press their neck. These evil men must be brought down from power

triplechoice:
Disobey which God? In a story that's an allegory?

It's clear you don't even understand anything I have said and just replying nonsense.
Take a break. It would do you some good

The fall of Adam is a vital part of the salvation of man. That is why Jesus was chosen before the earth was created to atone.

seeyounow:
it is wrong, tribalism play major factor of voting

This election is different. Obi is loved across the nation

triplechoice:
The above is not the reason for my interactions with you, and you know it



We don't need Jesus for anything since the story is an allegory. That has been my argument with you and not because I don't understand the real meaning encoded in the story.

So far you have failed to convince anyone why your Jesus should sacrifice himself for what happened in a fictional story.

I am going to repeat this again, all the characters in the story are symbolic, meaning no real God, Adam and Eve or talking snake Even the garden was not a real place. It's just the product of the imagination of those who wrote the story.

So, talking of the story as if it's something that actually happened is exposing your level of understanding.


Enjoy yourself.

The other time, you spoke about Adam and Eve's "disobedience" I agree with you, they disobeyed God. But remember, they did not have the knowledge of Good and evil.
But it was not a sin because they did not have knowledge. Below is the bible's definition of sin; James 4:17
Anyone, then, who knows the right thing to do, yet fails to do it, is guilty of sin.
Without the knowledge of Good and bad, there can be no sin.

triplechoice:
Before you ask me if I understand, read again the gibberish you wrote up there ,and ask yourself if it really make any sense to you.

You just typed anything that came to your head with the hope it would make sense.It has not. It just a series of disjointed and unrelated statements.

If you don't want to answer one by one to each of the points I raised in my last reply, then , don't bother anymore.

You have failed woefully to prove your claim of how God planned what happened in the garden to pave way for Jesus coming later.

I understand how you feel but it doesn't change anything.
Humanity had 2 options.
1. Remain in the garden forever, never to die and be forever innocent.
2. Leave the garden, overcome sin and become like God.
I would choose option 2 what about you?

daveson07:
I'm a Yoruba boy to the core,,,but i believe in Obi's vision and his ambition to restructure Nigeria (though i don't really know his hidden agenda,only God knows) but there's a bit of problem with his followers.
have you ever noticed all they do is insult and curse anybody that is against their candidate forgetting everybody has a right to their opinion and believes..
instead of them to educate and change people's mind through a well doctored speech,,all they do is curse,insult and better still impose Obi on people...
I'll advice you people to stop being tribalistic and egoistic and start preaching a well constructed speech to change people's heart....
no matter what you say or post,,it doesn't change my believe and trust in Obi........
Mynd44
Lalasticlala
Ychris

Oga you are either uninformed or very dishonest. Let's assume you are uninformed, then I urge you to spend only 30 mins on Nairaland politics. You would find out that the Tinubu supporters are the most vile and hateful

IduNaOba:
Everything suppose turn blue before December mehn.
The youths need to make an emphatic statement.

You are right, we need to paint the country blue

Ricky97:
This is massive......the Nigeria of our dreams is POssible

I tell you

Google shows us who Nigerians are looking up between the major political candidates. This is not an opinion poll but it tells who Nigerians are most interested in.

triplechoice:
Before you ask me if I understand, read again the gibberish you wrote up there ,and ask yourself if it really make any sense to you.

You just typed anything that came to your head with the hope it would make sense.It has not. It just a series of disjointed and unrelated statements.

If you don't want to answer one by one to each of the points I raised in my last reply, then , don't bother anymore.

You have failed woefully to prove your claim of how God planned what happened in the garden to pave way for Jesus coming later.

I don't answer points we have already discussed. You are recircling your talking points which is not healthy.
Let me help you with a summary,
1. God wanted man to have the Knowledge of good and evil as he does. He also wanted man to face and overcome trials and to choose the good. These would not have happened without Adam and Eve eating the fruit.

2. He wanted man to overcome death and all the effects of the fall.
He wanted man to return to his presence. These would not have happened without Christ.

JackDaAlienz:
I remember early 2000, my dad was planning to adopt a kid Into our family.
Later I found out that my father's friend adopted 2 boys.
My uncle warned my dad not yo try it.
I even remember going to orphanage with him to see how it goes.
For some reason he didn't adopt again.

Fast foward to 20 years later
That my father's friend is living in hell,
He says those 2 boys he adopted turned out to be into yahoo, drugs, cultisim.
They even beat him up and steal his money.

Till today im forever grateful to my uncle for preventing my dad from adoption.
Because all the families I know that adopted kids back in the 2000. None of them have peace, they always fighting, quarreling
It's a huge mess.
This is why i think Adoption is not worth it at all

You are just an ignorant evil man. People like you make the world a terrible place.
Just in case you are a Christian or Muslim, both Jesus Christ and Mohammed were adopted. Moses was adopted.
Nelson Mandela, Steve Jobs, and Jack Nicholson were all adopted.
Stop spreading stupidity.

triplechoice:
Who is making your point? You just demonstrated that you have not been reading very well any of my replies. I have maintained that what happened in the garden was not a curse but a blessing. Christianity which you subscribe to doesn't regard it as blessing, but the downfall of man. You see why I said you're not able to comprehend simple things and you say I was rude. If you insist that Christian theology says it is blessing, then, please mention the name of your Christian group so one can confirm you're telling it as it is. You're misconstruing my statements everytime to create confusion. Just imagine. Clear you own confusion first. You're certainly confused as you want to deceive yourself by jumping from Jesus coming to remove evil of the forbidden fruit to now removing sin of the world. Where did the sin came from according to Christianity? Stick to what happened in the garden of Eden to prove why Christ has to die for any sin.You're running away from that to start quoting unrelated scripture. You claimed that everything that happened in the garden was for Jesus to die later. Focus on that How does this verse relate with what happened in the garden of Eden or do you now accept Adam and Eve committed the original sin by disobeying God. Hope you can now understand why I say you're confused .If a Muslim quotes something from the Quran would you accept it as truth? Certainly not. The Bible verse is church theology it is not truth but to you. And what is the sin of the world? So. nothing to do with the garden of Eden then? And what is sin? I have mentioned the reason I want to know. You dare not mention it as you know you would be exposed for saying things that are contrary to what is preached in your church. That's the truth. You're mixing to opposing viewpoints to rationalise Christianity's wrong interpretation of the Genesis account . Instead of admitting that it is your own personal interpretation, which is commendable, you're trying desperately to tie it to church theology. The interpretation that Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit is blessing is not Church theology. Others know that but not you. I think I have wasted too much time with you. You're have been running from pillar to post trying to cover up for what you started.

The knowledge of sin and also good came from the garden. It would be foolish to stick to the garden. The Garden was only a part of the plan. God's entire plan was to make man like him. The Garden played a major role in the plan but it would have been a curse and a failure without other aspects of the plan.

God's plan began with Jesus Christ, not Adam. Jesus Christ is the center of the plan. Adam played a vital role. Through him, the knowledge of good and evil came into the world. Also through him, man became mortal and we could go through the trials of mortality. These would not have been possible in the garden. I hope you understand it now.

triplechoice:
Oga, I say let me know the denomination or Christian group you belong to.

You're mixing to opposing viewpoints to interpret the Genesis account. I told you this is deception as a Christian..

.Your answer to the op which I responded to, says that God planned everything so that he could later send his son to die as sacrifice. This is contrary to Christian theology that everyone is familiar with.

In Christianity, the interpretation is that the first two couples disobeyed God and this led to their alienation. To reconcile the descendant of Adam and Eve back to God ,a Jesus sacrifice must happen, if not the burden of original sin remains.

But your Gnostic interpretation is that God wanted them to eat the fruit so their eyes can be opened so they know evil from good and become wise.

Now that they did what God wanted, why do we still need Jesus to die for anything.

You said to remove evil. But this is where you have failed because you don't understand what it means to have the knowledge of good and evil.

In the world that we live in, nothing can be known or understood without its opposite. Without evil we wouldn't appreciate good or know what is good, and without good we can't make sense of what is evil.

Adam and Eve did not know they were naked because they had no knowledge of what is good and evil, but after eating the forbidden fruit their eyes became open to know they were naked.
Hope you get it now? So stop saying Jesus was needed to remove evil. If that were to happen, then it means we would all go back to the pre-Adamic era, ignorance. Naked not Knowing we are naked.
Do you want that to happen? I don't think so.

Evil can't be removed from the world. It is as simple as that. Jesus didn't come to remove evil. That idea is Christian theology and not truth.

Please don't fail in your reply to mention the Christian group you belong to ,so one can be sure you're telling the truth as it is preached there, if not ,it is better the conversation is discontinued.

You are now making my point. You said,
"In the world that we live in, nothing can be known or understood without its opposite. Without evil, we wouldn't appreciate good or know what is good, and without good, we can't make sense of what is evil."
Do you now see why eating the fruit was not a curse? Man could understand good and evil and from then we could resist evil. The only way we can become like God is if we overcome evil. In the Garden, Adam and Eve could not overcome evil.
Yes, Jesus was needed to remove sin. Let me quote a verse to help you with your confusion. John 1:29. 29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
The role of Christ was to take away the sins of all those who surrender to him.
Again I would never mention my group to you. I reserve the right to that and if you are not satisfied sorry. I don't need to know what you worship to discuss with you. If you feel you have a duty to know where I worship before discussing with me, I can't help you, sir.

Dear Nigerians, as we prepare to come out today and March on the streets to declare our support for Peter Obi, I want us to remember that Obi is only the symbol of our struggle. Our true fight is for a better Nigeria, a nation that would finally stand to its fullest potential.
I commend everyone who would find the time to join in this battle for the soul of our nation.
I used the word battle but our only weapon here is peace.
And I pray..
Oh God of all nations we bow before thee. We come as a nation to thine presence seeking thine hands in the affairs of Nigeria.
Today marks our independence day but all our years, we have depended on the evil depositions of wicked leaders.
We have wandered in the wilderness of poverty.
Other nations wonder, how can one so blessed be so cursed.
Thou God of all nations, whenever thou would lift a nation, thou would first lift a man. We present Peter Obi to you. Father lift Nigeria through him.
As the people come out to rally this day, bind us with thine love and wrapped us with thine safety.
Speak peace to every heart. Protect the people from hurt and designs of the wicked.
Father listen to thine children. We have suffered enough as a nation. Wipe our tears and replace our shame with glory.
Nigerians are great people. But we are held back by our leaders. Father, be our leader and give us men who would do thine will.
This is my prayer in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen

Healthquest:
mumu.


Ibo dont want giod governance that's why they've been voting for failure all there time to rep them.

your opinion

triplechoice:
Oga mention the name of your church or Christian group. That's what I am interesting in for now .

If you don't want to do that, then stop calling yourself a Christian. Don't hide . I am not asking for your name.

I want to know the real Identity of the person I am arguing with to determine if you're actually presenting what your church preaches and not your own personal interpretation which I already accepted is the proper way to view things.

Christian doctrine says what happened in the garden is disobedience; the original sin that resulted in curses and condemnation.. For this a sacrifice is needed to put things right.

As a Christian,y ou're mixing two opposing viewpoint by saying it is a blessing as against what church doctrine says. You want to eat your cake and have it too? Not possible. Choose one

Concerning Jesus, you still don't get it and here is your confusion. If what happened in the garden was planned by God so that they eat the fruit and become wise, then the later sacrifice of Jesus is meaningless and not needed.

You don't punish somebody for doing the right thing you actually wanted and then later insisting a blood sacrifice must be made before you let go of the punishment. It doesn't make sense.

Your church indoctrination is why you still talk of compulsory sacrifice of Jesus after admitting that what happened in the garden is for the good of humanity. Fear is why you're not bold enough to admit church doctrine concerning the allegory doesn't make sense.

Christian doctrine is a very broad concept. At no time have Christians of all denominations agreed on a particular doctrine. You would have known if you were a Christian.

Now let's go to the few things you pointed out. You said;
If what happened in the garden was planned by God so that they eat the fruit and become wise, then the later sacrifice of Jesus is meaningless and not needed.

How do you mean? God told Adam and Eve that they would die if they eat the fruit, they obviously needed someone to save them from death.
Secondly, the fruit was called the fruit of knowledge of good and bad for a reason. True it gave man the Knowledge of good, but it also gave him the knowledge of evil. Christ came to take away the sins of the world. Do you get it now?

I keep saying it, Yorubas are not as tribalistic as people think. Most of them want what the rest of us want, good governance. I see Obi getting over 35% of the southwest votes. Tinubu would still lead in the zone with about 55%

triplechoice:
Don't agree you're telling the truth After mentioning other denominations or Christian groups, you failed to identify with any so as to make it easy to verify if you're telling the truth of what your church preaches. If you're not hiding something, I dare you to mention your own church so any of your fellow members who might be following can verify that all you say here is the same as what they tell them in church about the story.
You have been called a fake Christian by a Jehovah witness , Maximus, who is not ashamed to identify with his organization. Prove you're not hiding something by announcing your own denomination. I dare you to do that in your next reply if not this would be the last time reply you. You're certainly confused. If one were to accept the story is not an allegory, the death of Jesus centuries later can't turn it into a blessing. You don't require the spilling of blood of anyone to understand what a blessing is. You're not thinking this at all, but just preaching church doctrine disguised as truth.

Yes, I have been called names by the JW. The last guy to do so, I reminded him that it was in his right to call me anything.
Now to the more serious matters. The death of Jesus was many centuries after Adam but it was ordained ever before Adam ate the fruit. It was not an after thought of God. It was always the plan

triplechoice:
You're mixing two opposing view points ,gnosticism and Christianity to interpret the Genesis account in order to answer the op. Nothing wrong with that.

But the problem is that you want to make it seem as if the church interprets it the same way. This is deceptionon your part.

Can you preach that Adam and Eve disobedience( that's what church doctrine says) is a blessing in any Sunday school or from any pulpit? You have refused to answer that each time I ask.



I already said the story is an allegory and it has nothing to do with the so called "original sin" that would need a sacrifice to erase.

If you interpret the story as a blessing for humanity, I agree also, then I ask you where is the sense in Jesus coming to die again for what is already a blessing for humanity so that God can forgive what?

Why not just own up to what you're trying to do? You can deceive others but not somebody like me.

If you feel the church well known interpretation of the Genesis account doesn't make sense, why don't you do the needful by accepting you have outgrown the religion instead of looking for a way to rationalise things so you continue to believe.

This is exactly where you are right now.

I am not mixing any view. I am just telling you the truth.
Again, there are over 10000 churches. Which church interpretation are you talking about?
The Catholic interpretation is different from the Jehovah witness, which is different from the Adventist, which is also different for the Mormons, this is again different from the church of Christ.
The death of Jesus is what makes it a blessing. Let me ask you, what has man lost due to the fall?

triplechoice:
You win and congratulations since you believe that it was God's plan to set up Adam and Eve to eat the forbidden fruit so he can accuse them of disobedience and place curses to increase the pain of the woman during childbirth.
Then centuries later to forgive the original sin he set them up for, he sent his son to die so he can forgive the act of disobedience. Very good reasoning.

Talk you of and logic. I laugh.

And yea, still not showing you understand anything about the so called Abraham's sacrifice..

Modified. Do you know what it means to take responsibility for one's action?. No . You don't. You take responsibility by not waiting for somebody to die to forgive you or bear the consequences of what you have done

You have a lot to understand
Adam and Eve's fall brought far more blessings than your so-called curse. Their fall brought about Jesus Christ, resurrection, and Immortality for all mankind. We are blessed with the knowledge of Good and evil just like God. We also have the ability to become perfect like God thanks to the fall.
So while both of us can keep making fun of each others logic, ask yourself, wether all these blessings I have outlined do not outweigh your perceived curse.

Sonyboom765:
Obi supporter will tell you it is not organic love it is chemical or manure love. I am yet to witness the level of foolishness exhibit by his tribesmen in my entire life.

I am an Obi supporter and Kwankwaso's popularity in the north excites me. It is clear the northern Muslim votes would be divided among the 2 northern candidates. This is the best news for Obidients. Obidients understand that the rise of Kwankwaso in the north is to our advantage.

abc115:
Tinubu lives rent free in your head


Obi will come 10th

God Bless Incoming President Bola Tinubu

Labour party and Obi lives rent free in your head

triplechoice:
Look at you again. I asked where in the Bible was anybody' actually sacrificed for the God of Israel with the people doing the sacrificing saying what it was for . Why is it difficult for you to understand this simple question.

Abraham never really sacrificed Isaac so don't mention that one. An alternative was provided at the last minute. I kept mentioning this so you can understand exactly why the God of Israel instructed him to proceed with it in the first place. It was a test of faith. The action should not be the main focus, but this has continued to fly past your head each time I mentioned it. You can't simply grasp it.

And in case you don't know,Jesus sacrificing himself for your sins is Pauline theology . Jesus in the Bible never said he came to sacrifice himself for the atonement of sin ,neither did God in the new testament said he sent Jesus to come and die for anybody's sin.

It might be comforting to believe that someone else has died for your sins, but in the end it would only lead to not taking responsibility for own life.

Your Bible says what you sow is what you reap . Accept you want to mock your God, you can reject that and live your life the way you want it believing some has paid the price.

Me uncomfortable? You're just projecting. All of these started with you giving an unchristian interpretation of the Genesis account. You claimed that God set up Adam and Eve to eat the forbidden fruit in the garden so he can later send his son to come and die for what he set them up for. It was God's plan according to you.

Can you teach this kind of thing in any Sunday school or a pulpit where other Christians are gathered and not be seen as a devil preaching heresy? Answer me.

So, I am not uncomfortable, but no longer interested in the conversation as you're just going round in circles while avoiding dealing with the illogicallity of what you said at first about Adam and Eve.

I have insisted the story is an allegory which you're misinterpreting.

You have avoided discussing that ,but have craftily succeeded steering the conversation away in a different direction and now preaching. Sorry, I am not uncomfortable, but no longer interested . Thank you.

Your logic is actually twisted. Christians of all ages believe that Christ died for sin yet they strive to do better and improve their lives. The notion that Christ's sacrifice would make Christians irresponsible people is so wrong. There is no evidence that Christians do not take responsibility when compared to other belief systems.

For your other comments, I don't see the need to keep going around in circles with you. If human sacrifice is an abomination to God, he would not have tested Abraham with evil. God is not the Devil.