₦airaland Forum

triplechoice:
Look at you again. I asked where in the Bible was anybody' actually sacrificed for the God of Israel with the people doing the sacrificing saying what it was for . Why is it difficult for you to understand this simple question.

Abraham never really sacrificed Isaac so don't mention that one. An alternative was provided at the last minute. I kept mentioning this so you can understand exactly why the God of Israel instructed him to proceed with it in the first place. It was a test of faith. The action should not be the main focus, but this has continued to fly past your head each time I mentioned it. You can't simply grasp it.

And in case you don't know,Jesus sacrificing himself for your sins is Pauline theology . Jesus in the Bible never said he came to sacrifice himself for the atonement of sin ,neither did God in the new testament said he sent Jesus to come and die for anybody's sin.

It might be comforting to believe that someone else has died for your sins, but in the end it would only lead to not taking responsibility for own life.

Your Bible says what you sow is what you reap . Accept you want to mock your God, you can reject that and live your life the way you want it believing some has paid the price.

Me uncomfortable? You're just projecting. All of these started with you giving an unchristian interpretation of the Genesis account. You claimed that God set up Adam and Eve to eat the forbidden fruit in the garden so he can later send his son to come and die for what he set them up for. It was God's plan according to you.

Can you teach this kind of thing in any Sunday school or a pulpit where other Christians are gathered and not be seen as a devil preaching heresy? Answer me.

So, I am not uncomfortable, but no longer interested in the conversation as you're just going round in circles while avoiding dealing with the illogicallity of what you said at first about Adam and Eve.

I have insisted the story is an allegory which you're misinterpreting.

You have avoided discussing that ,but have craftily succeeded steering the conversation away in a different direction and now preaching. Sorry, I am not uncomfortable, but no longer interested . Thank you.

Your logic is actually twisted. Christians of all ages believe that Christ died for sin yet they strive to do better and improve their lives. The notion that Christ's sacrifice would make Christians irresponsible people is so wrong. There is no evidence that Christians do not take responsibility when compared to other belief systems.

For your other comments, I don't see the need to keep going round in circles with you. If human sacrifice is an abomination to God, he would not have tested Abraham with an evil. God is not the Devil.

triplechoice:
I don't think you know the meaning of the word ,rude.I said you have shown that you don't understand the Bible very well. You have been misinterpreting Bible verses because you don't really understand them.

And you have repeated the same thing in your latest reply. It's clearly stated that the God of Israel detest humans sacrificing their sons and daughters to Gods or gods and not that he is not happy if the sacrifice is not made to him. That's exactly what that verse is saying and not what you want it to mean.

It is obvious that you're deliberately misinterpreting it in order to reconcile it with the primitive Christian doctrine of blood for the remission of sin. This is one of the major contradictions in the Bible which Bible scholars over the years have struggled unsuccessfully to explain away; A God that detest human sacrifice but still want such sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin. See, you can't reconcile this no matter how you try.

Apart from the example of Abraham, please present any other instances in the Bible where the God of Israel accepted human sacrifice as burnt offering. Mind you, Abraham never really sacrificed Isaac .An alternative was provided at the last minute after Abraham demonstrated he was ready to follow without questioning anything God ask him to do. That's the actual reason for that test of faith and not that God of Israel likes human sacrifice. He detest it. The God of the old and New testament are obviously not the same.

BTW, why should anyone worship a God that wants human blood to be spilled before he can forgive anything? What does a God need blood for?


I think it should end now. You either as a Christian accept by faith church doctrine or you don't. It's not something you can defend with logic or trying to rationalise it . You will fail.There's a reason your religion wants you to accept things without questioning .
That's the only way they can keep you believing and not knowing the truth for yourself.

You have the example of Abraham and the example of Jesus, what more examples do you need to see that you are wrong? And if you are uncomfortable with our discussion, you can end it. The most sacred even in Christianity is the mortal sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Since you are not a Christian, I should be telling you the Christian doctrine but I can understand why you are uncomfortable.

You asked why should anyone worship a God who wants human blood to be spilled before he can forgive anything. This is the best question you have ever asked. He already answered it. The wages of sin are death. Your sins have brought death upon you. Only a kind and loving God would give you his beloved son to save you from death.

Again, for you non-Christians, your view of death is very different from the Christian view of death. So yes, we worship a God who saved us from death by offering his most precious gift to mankind.

triplechoice:
I think comprehension is your problem. Sorry to say this. You read the verse and what you could make of it is that God would prefer that human sacrifice is made to him and not to other gods?
The verse says, they do all kinds all of destable things which God hates. One of these destable things is sacrificing human beings, their sons and daughters to their gods and not that the God of Israel is angry because the people did not offered it to him.

So the God of Israel detest human sacrifice of any kind, his son and anyone else

I hope your fellow Christians would comment on this. You're on your own and just saying anything that comes to your mind.

As for Abraham, he did not sacrifice his son an alternative was provided for him at the last minute showing it was a test of Faith and not that God actually wanted him to sacrifice his son.
I still insist you don't know your Bible very well and because of this you have been putting your God in a very bad light .

And please stop using the word, principle, to cover for something that is very reprehensible; sacrificing a human being to forgive sin.
Modified. Talking of context, it was Isaiah 1. 11 I said you took out of context and not Deuteronomy. Did you quote that before? Why don't you address the one you quoted? You want to confuse me?

Well, I wouldn't say rude things like you. But clearly, you don't understand. Even though God was testing Abraham's faith, he would never ask you to do something evil. God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son because it was not a sin before him.

As for the detestable thing that did, it was sacrificing humans to other Gods. That's all. He sacrificed his own son in human form so clearly, Human sacrifice could not be the sin here.

Biodun556:
Those who carried out first coup and those who fought the civil were all young in their 20s and 30s

You are so smart.

triplechoice:
This is very funny. God takes pleasure in human sacrifice but not animal sacrifice.

The Bible has not said so. You're the one saying so by taking Isaih 1.11 out of the context in which it was made. Read from verse 1 till the end and see the reason the God of Israel took no pleasure in the animal sacrifice offered by the children of Israel. It was not only animal sacrifice. He took no pleasure in their offerings and prayers as well.

Deuteronomy ,12.31 and 18. 10 as well as 2 kings. 21.6. shows how the God of Israel detest human sacrifice.
You sure don't know your Bible very well.

Lol, read the verses you referred to again. God was talking about sacrificing humans to other Gods. It has nothing against his sacrificing his son. You are the one out of context
These are the verses you mentioned.
31 You must not worship the Lord your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the Lord hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.

They all talk about sacrificing to other Gods. If God requires his son to sacrifice himself for mankind, it is not against his principles. Please read your bible.

God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son. God would never ask you to do something wrong.

triplechoice:
Then how do you solve the confusion of God not also delighting in human sacrifice. Are there two Gods in the Bible? Old testament God and new testament God? It would seem so from the look of things

Actually, the bible says God does not delight in animal sacrifice not human.
Isiah 1.11

Meteoritey:
Due to work, my husband and I live in states, and my husband lives in Canada. 3 months ago we had some serious skirmishes during our phone conversation and in the heat of the argument, I told him that he does not appreciate the fact that I am raising the kids and doing everything alone.

To my disappointment, he told me that he is overworked more than me. This really angered me. This got me angry and I hung up. Although He tried to reach me for 4 days, and also sent me some messages, I cut him off without replying, about 9 weeks later, I sent him just a message on an unrelated issue, he ignored my message, after another month, I sent him another message, he also ignored. It has been 3 months now we have not spoken to each other.

Recently my brother had a baby, and he only called once to congratulate them. Moreover my younger sister got admission to a university to study the same course that my husband studied, so naturally, my sister contacted him. My sister said he advised her on what to do and what she should expect. This was about 2 months ago. I personally did not inform him about my sister’s admission myself.

After about one month, my sister also called him for more information, but he has not been picking my sister’s call.

My sisters fiancee also called him to inform him about their upcoming marriage (my same sister that got the admission) he only spoke with my sister and her fiancee once, he stopped further communication with them on both issues of admission and marriage, and that he only spoke with them the first time about the admission and the marriage out of the respect he has for them.

He gave my sister the excuse that it was not proper, for him to speak with her fiancee' because he said that I have not told him anything about the marriage, therefore he can not relate further with my sister as per the marriage. And that it was out of respect that he even called my sister initially to advice her.

What are you thoughts and opinion please.

You, modern women, do not know that men crave respect more than love. Maybe he would one day pick up your calls but right now your marriage is imploding all thanks to you

tamdun:
They are actually killing our economy

Containers kill your economy

blackpanda:
Lmao. E go shock u. You said the same about buhari but laslas he still won.
2023 your eyes will open.

No we did not say the same about Buhari. We knew he had the support of his people the north

Aderewah:
Igbos marry themselves and if they marry outside, it’ll be outside or a beautiful Yoruba woman or otherwise a Yoruba demon. But Igbos never marry Hausa. Is it discrimination or something else?

It hurts me when someone who doesn't travel starts threads like these. It's a pure lie to say Igbo's never marry Hausas.

MaxInDHouse:
Well you are from my point of view!

As I say, you are free to call names. Freedom of speech is my thing

MaxInDHouse:
An atheist!

No p

MaxInDHouse:
I'm only telling you what you really are, there are people out there claiming atheists which means it's not an insult but a befitting name for people who don't share the same believe with anyone!

Let's not make it an issue. Call me whatever you guys call people like me

Channah1:
Mehnn... See the food I just got for 900. Rice 650
Moimoi 250. I couldn't bring myself to buy the meat at 400 cos it's the size of 100 naira meat outside.

Naija which way? So annoying.

Are you trying to pretend you don't know where to get cheaper and better food?

MaxInDHouse:
Dictionary will only tell you atheism mean lack of believe in GOD but then what is GOD?
Well GOD is the universal title used for the SUPREME BEING, you and i are human being so the only way to prove we believe in the existence of one who is supreme is agreement on the same line of thought as established by the one who is supreme. John 17:22
So if both of us disagree but you presented a group of people that you agreed with on right and wrong then you surely believe in the supreme being on whose principle you agreed with the group.
I also need to do the same afterwards we now compare the positive results (fruit) of your group with mine! Matthew 7:16-18

But once you don't believe in group then it means you have no one to agree with on standards which makes you your own god: atheist!

Ok, call me names if that makes you happy. Let's not let that come in the way of discussion.

MaxInDHouse:
Must you lie now that you can't find a way out of the box?
Well those are the people they agreed not to greet or dine with! Romans 16:17; 2John 10-11


You're an atheist no doubt about that, i don't need your respect tell me the truth!

I am not sure you understand what we are talking about. Why did you see a lie and what box do you mean? Please come back to the topic. It seems you are chatting with someone else and confusing him with me.

MaxInDHouse:
So when they DISFELLOWSHIP a person can you tell this forum how they relate with such a person?
The same way you relate with any human being.



I have proof that you're an atheist, you can't present any group of people with whom you agree to have the same line of thought and that is what atheism is all about as each person has formed his or her own standard no agreement with anyone.
As for believers they TRUST (BELIEVE) in the same line of thought so if you don't have something of that nature you're an atheist!

I would try to respect you and not call you names

MaxInDHouse:
This is what makes you an atheist!
As long as you can't present any group of people with whom you agree completely on the issue of faith then you're just a disguised atheist!

You should use your dictionary more sir. You clearly don't know the meaning of simply words.

triplechoice:
Sacrificed for what? Did the same Bible not say God doesn't delight in human sacrifice?

Did the bible not say that God gave his son and we are saved by the blood of Jesus Christ?

triplechoice:
And your opinion that God wanted Adam and Eve to eat the fruit is what?

If you insist God wanted them to eat it, then it means God and Satan are working together because without the later they wouldn't have thought of it.

And when you teach kids Sunday school ,you tell them God warned Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit, but however he never really meant it.

It does not mean God and satan were working together. God wanted Jesus Christ to be crucified, would you say he was working with Judahs?

MaxInDHouse:
If we don't love everyone then why do you think we go visiting them in their homes?
As for those who have turned their backs on the tenets that binds us together as brothers Jesus said they're unfit to be our associates {Luke 9:62} so we must avoid having anything to do with them {Romans 16:17; 1John 2:19; 2John 10-11} i wonder why you will not tell us how to apply what the Apostles meant by those words!


Oh i forgot you don't know that once you're criticizing JWs you're an atheist to me because the only difference between believers and atheist is compliance to the same line of thought so if you can't present any group with which you agreed totally with their teachings there's no difference between you and those who claims there's no supreme being.

Jesus said that those who believe in the supreme being will all have the same line of thought as One {John 17:22 compare to 1Corinthians 1:10} so my friend you're an atheist!

I could call you an atheist because you don't agree with my own religious perspective but then we would both be calling each other names and we would both look stupid. So I decide to respect you even though I totally disagree with you.

KnownUnknown:
@Triplechoice
Is tctrills a “fundamentalist” or a “moderate”?

Haba, which one is this? I believe we are on the platform to share ideas so where does the fundamentalist” or a “moderate come from?
Forget who I am and make your own contributions

triplechoice:
I am sure you never really read my response. You just glossed over it and then responded. I don't enjoy engaging people who do this.

Where did I mentioned my position about God. I said the story is an allegory. Meaning that the characters are symbolic. The story of Adam and Eve was plagiarized from Judaism where it is rightly treated for what it is; an allegory. It is only Islam and Christianity that has given it literal interpretation ,hence the confusion we have in the world today

So you see. You have developed your own opinion over God's words but you question other people. The Bible never said the story was an allegory.

triplechoice:
Interesting this. So you're the only one who can read and understand the Bible. When others read, they can only understand it if you interpret for them.

If God really wanted them to be like him ,then why chased them out of the garden so they don't eat what would really make them have immortality ? You skipped that

You said you don't believe in God and yet you expect to understand his words. Is that even possible?
He chased them out so they can learn to overcome evil and become like him and he gave them immortality through Jesus Christ. All men would resurrect and never did again

MaxInDHouse:
If we don't love everyone then why do you think we go visiting them in their homes?
As for those who have turned their backs on the tenets that binds us together as brothers Jesus said they're unfit to be our associates {Luke 9:62} so we must avoid having anything to do with them {Romans 16:17; 1John 2:19; 2John 10-11} i wonder why you will not tell us how to apply what the Apostles meant by those words!


Oh i forgot you don't know that once you're criticizing JWs you're an atheist to me because the only difference between believers and atheist is compliance to the same line of thought so if you can't present any group with which you agreed totally with their teachings there's no difference between you and those who claims there's no supreme being.

Jesus said that those who believe in the supreme being will all have the same line of thought as One {John 17:22 compare to 1Corinthians 1:10} so my friend you're an atheist!

Visiting someone is not always an indication of love.
The Apostles were talking about disfellowshipping. They are no longer part of the congregation.
I still advise you to be civilized and not call names. Every organization can be criticized.

triplechoice:
This is not it. You said God wanted them to eat the forbidden fruit in the garden. Quote a verse were it is said God wanted this. If you're quoting any other thing about knowledge from the Bible, then it means God was using deception,a lie, to make Adam and Eve the fruit. He told them they would die the very day they eat the fruit, but this turned out not to be true as they continue to live

That's not how to study the bible. It's not a question and answer booklet but from reading, you come to understand much. So the very first blessing that came to Adam and Eve from eating the fruit is that they became more like God.
And the Lord God said, "Now that the man has become like one of us, knowing good and bad,
The plan of God is that we become like him.
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your. Father which is in heaven is perfect.
God has all Knowledge and when we become like him, we would have all knowledge.

triplechoice:
. It was God who never wanted them to work in the first place by placing them in a garden where he was spoon feeding them with different fruits everyday and would have continued for eternity if not for Eve that was bold and courageous enough to eat the forbidden fruit .So the blessings of work was theirs to fight for and not God's. God never wanted it. Yes the human race as achieved a lot, but it was thanks to the snake and Eve. God never wanted it. He wanted our eyes closed in the garden for ever Let me also ask you ,how many billionaire fathers would keep their children at home at a time they should be in schoo?. God kept or wanted to keep Adam and Eve at home, in the garden, for eternity untill they got help from the snake. And the outcome was what led God to grudgingly forced them away to" school" and with some curses and swearing to go along with it.
This is putting it euphemistically. God actually placed curses to increase the pain of women during child birth. Just look at that . Then after 9 months of stressfully carrying a baby in the womb ,the woman has to experience one of the two most painful thing in the world; childbirth, (the other is burning by fire) And do you how many women have died from that painful experience since the beginning of the world? And why? Eve eat the fruit which was even a good thing. This is double speak. It is a curse or punishment that's is not deserving at all Submissive here is to hide the fact that God made Eve inferior or less than the Adam after disobeying him. Before the punishment, both of them were equals, nothing like the woman being submissive or less than the Adam.. No. God never wanted it. It was the snake who actually wanted it for them and did everything to convince Eve to eat the fruit that led to their awakening. It is obvious you're trying to rationalise the behaviour of God in the garden by bringing in interpretations that are not part of church doctrine. It would only lead to confusion. This is the truth. The story is an allegory. There's no real God, Adam and Eve or Satan in it. Those characters are symbolic .

Good wanted them to work. remember Jesus said, my father works, even so, I work. Work is an internal principle. But God wanted them to make the choice.
As for pain, it's part of the package that comes with earth life. You may choose to see it as a curse but then even Jesus Christ learned and grew from his suffering. Hebrew 5.8.
Also, I never knew that your position is that there is no God. If I knew, there wouldn't have been a need for this discussion.

So if Nigerian government teaches prospective immigrants the Nigerian law and the one coming agreed to abide with such laws the laws will change after they've become citizens shey? This is the most intelligent thing you have said so far in this discussion. When Jesus told the prospective Christians to love all men, the law did not change for his disciples he expected the same. You are to love all men and not only your brothers. Even your ex-members should be loved.

I hope you get it now.




You this boy and name calling.
Can we just discuss without calling each other names? can you respect that? I understand why you began the name calling but its not necessary. Just because we don't agree does not make me an atheist.

triplechoice:
Can you quote a Bible verse in support of the above?

I state 2 things here. 1. Knowledge and 2. Overcoming through Christ.
So I can show you 10s of verses where the importance of obtaining knowledge and I can quote many more that speak about overcoming sin through Jesus Christ.

Moh247:
Campaign started Na Cityboy still dey trend

Trending for the wrong reasons

triplechoice:
So God wanted Adam and Eve to commit the original sin so that in the future he would come down to die to take away the curse of the original sin and after that wake up three days later straight back to heaven?

No, he wanted man to have the knowledge of good and evil and to overcome evil through his son.

triplechoice:
If God wanted it to be our choice, why were curses placed on Adam and Eve for choosing correctly?

What are the curses?
The man was given more responsibility. Work is a blessing, not a curse. Look at what the human race has accomplished because we were kicked out of our comfort zone and made to work. We have transformed the work and created civilizations. We have improved our intellect. Let me ask you if you are a billionaire, would you want your kids to work or would you want them to remain in a garden with everything they need and without the need to work and grow?

For the woman the Lord said,
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
It may seem like a curse but it is not.
He gave the woman the responsibility over the children. He also made her be submissive to her husband. I don't see the curse in this.
Yes, God allowed them to face sorrow in the real world but it's only wonderful for their growth and experience.