₦airaland Forum

Kobojunkie:
What part of what I wrote leads you to that?

If it wasn't coincidence then they were clearly acting under the autority of God.

Kobojunkie:
I don't know why they felt to replace Judas at all. The Holy Spirit had not shown up at that time either so can't conclude the decision was led by Him.

So I was right you believe the apostles took up power unto themselves. There leadership was not of God according to you?

Kobojunkie:
There is no luck to it! No one controls God or causes God to act. God does what He wants when He wants. .

So we agree they had the authority from God?

Kobojunkie:
I don't even believe they led any church as you claim. They were simply going about doing what was commanded of them and as they were lead by the Spirit of God to.

If the Apostles were not leading the church then what was there role? why was there a need to appoint someone to fill Judas position.
Acts 1:23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.

24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,

25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Kobojunkie:
When the 120 were in the room, whose hands caused the Holy Spirit to come on them at that time?

That Peter and John laid hands and it is written that the Holy Spirit, at that moment came down does not mean He was somehow controlled by their actions as Simon concluded at that point.

You are trying to say it was just a coincidence. Not like they had the power to bestow the Holy Ghost but they were just Lucky that time?

Kobojunkie:
John 14 vs 15 - 25 tells us that Jesus Christ (Spirit of Truth) and God Himself(Spirit of God or Holy Spirit) are all the Helpers, Representation, Lead we are to have, and this according to Jesus Christ's own teachings.

So basically I understood you, You believe the apostles had no right to lead the church. I want to fully understand your point of view so we can better discuss.

Kobojunkie:
So, your conclusion that Simon's assumption in that was correct because?

I am not talking about Simon's assumption. I am talking about the fact the Holy Ghost was bestowed through the laying of the apostle's hands. This power obviously came from God.

Kobojunkie:
I never did any such.

As I said, your interpretation/perception of what you read of the 11 in the book of Acts is probably from the fact that you see them as leaders over Jesus Christ's sheep. I don't see what you see because I know Jesus Christ never gave any man such authority to begin with - Jesus Christ is God's Truth.

So Jesus Christ choose no one to represent him after he left?

Kobojunkie:
What is it about my response that you didn't understand?

Let's look at Acts 8:14
When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

18 When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money 19 and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”
We see that the Apostles had the power to give Holy Ghost through the laying on of their hands.

Kobojunkie:
What is it about my response that you didn't understand?

You seem to be discrediting the Apostles as impostors who took leadership of the church without the direction of Jesus Christ. Is that what you are saying?

Kobojunkie:
Your interpretation of what is written of the works done by the 11 in the book of Acts is not the same as mine at all.

I don't think I am understanding you. or did you not understand my question.

Kobojunkie:
We are so not saying the same things at all. ..
1. Christ said He will build His own Church. So whatever organization He supposedly built, with Him as the Vine, has absolutely nothing to do with us.

2. Jesus Christ never gave responsibility over His sheep to any man, not even Peter. In John 10 vs 1 - 16, Jesus Christ explained that that role belongs only to Him, the one and only Shepherd over His flock - every other man is a worker, a servant.

The commands Jesus Christ gave people to do in John 21 vs 15 - 20 are the very same works of righteousness given to all followers of Jesus Christ in Matthew 25 vs 31 - 40, some of the very same works we are expected to do if we are to let our light shine Isaiah 58 vs 6 - 13 just as He commanded of us all.

■feed my Sheep
▪︎ when they are hungry, give them food to eat
▪︎ when they are thirst, give them drink
■ Take care of my Sheep
▪︎ when they are naked, clothe them
▪︎ when they are homeless, welcome them into your own home
▪︎ when they are sick, care for then
▪︎ when they are in prison, visit them

So, no, his conversation with Peter was nothing about His Church, but instead about the work set before every individual who would chose to become a follower of Jesus Christ and enter into His Heaven, the same New Covenant agreement that exists between God and individuals - Matthew 26 vs 28 - 30.

If I may get you, your point is that the Apostles illegally to up power over the church, they were not sent but they took the power upon themselves. Is That your point.

Kingzy4pep:
Is this Doctor not a fool? He probably thinks there's a prize for who discovers it first.

If you even check properly, this omicron didn't start in SA.
The westerners are just masturbating on this discovery by barning flights from most African nations because we aren't buying the idea of vaccination.
South Africans too go talk sef. If na Europeans, them go chill.

Everyonee with their conspiracy theory.

Kobojunkie:
God is the one who gave Jesus Christ the twelve, this from God's Old Covenant flock, to work with.
Recall, Jesus had said in John 6 vs 37 that everyone the Father gives to Him, He will in no wise cast out.

Nothing stopped God from giving Jesus Christ more after the first 12 11, but the 11 got all of the teachings from Him and were then sent out to teach the world all He had taught to them.

You are basically making my point. My point is Christ set up an organization and gave some power and authority. And when he left, he gave them responsibility over the sheep. Remember, 3 times he called Peter and instructed him, "Feed my Sheep." That is basically his church.
So unless you don't trust Christ''s Judgement in choosing apostles to lead his people when he left and in giving them authority.

Kobojunkie:
Nope! My comment was regarding the 11 who were then commanded to go out into the world, this in Matthew 28 , Mark 16 and Luke 24. There were 11 of then after Judas left the click.

Yes those 11 represented Christ after he left.

Kobojunkie:
Probably because the 11 who had been with Him from the beginning (almost 4 years) were ready to ship out at that time for the task ahead, where the others were still undergoing training?

Recall again, that the same commands given to the 11 disciples is given to all the followers who came after them. This as Jesus Christ declared throughout His teachings that those who do as He commands are those who love Him.

A few things here,
Luke 6:12-16
13 At daybreak he called together all of his disciples and chose twelve of them to be apostles. Here are their names

So we see that he chose them out of his disciples and gave them special power and authority.

They were clearly set apart from all his other followers.

Kobojunkie:
Probably because the 11 who had been with Him from the beginning (almost 4 years) were ready to ship out at that time for the task ahead, where the others were still undergoing training?

Recall again, that the same commands given to the 11 disciples is given to all the followers who came after them. This as Jesus Christ declared throughout His teachings that those who do as He commands are those who love Him.

If I understand you, you seem to be saying that the apostles of Christ fell away from the truth after Christ left. Is that what you mean?

sonmvayina:
Christianity started in Egypt as the worship of serapis. Who was a deity created by Ptolemy the first when he became pharoah of Egypt. To unite the Egyptian and Greek factions in Alexandria. Some Egyptian followed the new deity, other continue to worship the father as Osiris, the son as Horus and the mother as Isis. After more than half a century of argument, emperor Constantine called the presbyters to Nicea to harmonise their belief. After a arguing for almost 3 months they finally decided on serapis christus as the official god of Christianity. Eusebius was mandated to unify all the manuscripts brought forward into a uniform documents. Hence the reason why all the gospels began life anonymously. Ever since them they have been holding synods and council to iron out any beliefs that will pop up. The last was held in Vatican called Vatican 2. If anybody ever told you Christianity has a Jewish man born by a virgin woman. Slap the person for mouth.

All kinds of history. Where did you get your hI story please.

Ayo081:
I know right, also means Christians.

What do you mean by Church? That's if it's different from followers.

I don't understand your questions, please rephrase

MaxInDHouse:
And gradually you're running mad!

So there is no freedom of speech again shey?

Even if someone says God had sex with his wife should you think of slapping him for his faith?
Well i know those useless Jews have infected you with their terrorist mindset so you're gradually getting closer to your grave. Just slap someone for saying what his/her religion teaches and you'll never live to tell the story!

Oga, you just told me that your group stands against racism and here you are being the most racist. What do you mean by useless Jews. Like I always say, most Christians are the same

MaxInDHouse:
What have they achieved in the places where they reached?
Have they been able to erase racism and politics from the hearts of their followers?
Jesus said Christians must love and pray for their enemies, why do we have people claiming Christians and into politics and racism today.
Do you think there can be real love when they're into worldly politics?

Do you realise that the world is a more loving and peaceful place than in the time of Jesus. Thanks to the Christian world. So we can't honestly claim that only one sect is responsible for the better world we live in.

MaxInDHouse:
So who are those claiming Christians carrying weapons against their fellowman?

Well i just want to prove a point and that has been done.

Where are those claiming they're Christians on your other thread? Why hasn't anyone come up to speak about the works of their group as i've been doing?

WE ARE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES!
No weapon formed against our faith will have any success, any tongue that rises against us will be silenced, that's the heritage of those worshiping our own God JEHOVAH, and as for our righteousness don't bother yourself because it's from our God JEHOVAH! Isaiah 54:17

Thanks for sharing your time with me!

This is a free thread.. maybe others are not interested

Kobojunkie:
The apostles could not have done what only God can do.

Anyone of Jesus Christ's followers can do it! Recall that John the Baptist and his disciples were not even followers of Jesus Christ when they went around baptizing people for sake of the New Covenant..

So why did Jesus choose 12 men out of his many followers and give them power and send them forth

MaxInDHouse:
What have they achieved in the places where they reached?
Have they been able to erase racism and politics from the hearts of their followers?
Jesus said Christians must love and pray for their enemies, why do we have people claiming Christians and into politics and racism today.
Do you think there can be real love when they're into worldly politics?

The world is becoming less racist not because of any church but as humans advance racism reduces. America fought a war to end slavery. Very few have done as much as Rev Matin Luther King Jr. I wouldn't give the fight against racism to any one organization.

MaxInDHouse:
Of course Jesus' group also contradicts other Religious groups of the first century but only Jesus' group kept doing the work to erase racism and politics from the hearts of all their followers so that love can reign among them! John 13:34-35

Note that all the religions in the first century were contradicting themselves yet they all singled out Jesus' group as the worst of their enemies! John 15:19; 17:14

So ask yourself, can any member of the churches travel to any country in the world and expect to be welcomed hospitably just because he's a member of their religion?
Well Jesus' group (Jehovah's Witnesses) are doing it throughout the earth! Mark 10:29-30

I believe most churches are nice to their member's worldwide. Its human nature to show love to those of common belief. I don't think that is special to any church or organization.

MaxInDHouse:
Of course Jesus' group also contradicts other Religious groups of the first century but only Jesus' group kept doing the work to erase racism and politics from the hearts of all their followers so that love can reign among them! John 13:34-35

Note that all the religions in the first century were contradicting themselves yet they all singled out Jesus' group as the worst of their enemies! John 15:19; 17:14

So ask yourself, can any member of the churches travel to any country in the world and expect to be welcomed hospitably just because he's a member of their religion?
Well Jesus' group (Jehovah's Witnesses) are doing it throughout the earth! Mark 10:29-30

I believe most churches are nice to their members world wide.

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus told us an illustration showing that it's not his first century Jewish disciples that will take the preaching to the ends of the earth! Matthew 13:24-30
Note what Jesus said at verse 25 "when men were sleeping" this means while all the pioneers of Christianity in the first century are dead in their graves Satan will seize the opportunity to establish his own religion and overshadow the real Christians.
But Jesus later said by the time he returns what he laid down would have been overturned by Satan and his agents {Luke 18:8} that's when Jesus (as a mighty spirit king) will start using God's Active Force to direct the humble group back to all the truth Satan has buried after killing all the pioneers of Christianity in the first century! Matthew 24:45

So it's the other sheep of Jesus whom the first century Jewish disciples don't know that Jesus will gather to continue the work from where the first century Jewish disciples stopped! John 10:16

May you have PEACE!

That my point so just because a certain church has not yet gotten to all nations we cant use that to judge because they might get there sometime in the future. Everything in God's time.

MaxInDHouse:
NO! After the death of the Apostles the AntiChrist (Satan's agents) began claiming Christians, they succeeded in killing all the pioneers of Christianity and they began forcing their beliefs on people with wars they called "CRUSADES" later the oppressed ones among them began protesting that's why they're called "PROTESTANTS" as they kicked against the authority of Roman Catholic Church back then. Gradually Satan was able to establish many sects all claiming denominations of the same religion but they have contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines yet they're claiming they all belong to one master even when they're killing themselves due to politics and racism!

Jesus said it not me:

Matthew 24:14; 28:19-20; Act 1:8

But when you see different sects contradicting themselves then know that they're not for the Prince of Peace! Luke 11:23

Every Church contradicts the other so none is of God? Is having the Holy Ghost a sign of the True Church?

Kobojunkie:
1. He taught us of how to tell those who belong to His Church from those who are not of His Church - John 15 vs 14 & John 14 vs 15 - 25 - By their fruit you shall know them, He said in Matthew 7 vs 15 - 23.

2. Yes, the authority to baptize is bestowed on all those who believe in Him. However, no man has power to confer/control the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God's own Spirit and He cannot abide that which is filthy with sin. So only those who have through knowing the Truth of God have become perfect/Holy vessels, worthy of Him, can receive Him - John 8 vs 31 - 44 & John 14 vs 15 - 25.

The apostle conferred the Holy Ghost. Anyway, so who gets to Baptise us today?

MaxInDHouse:
When Jesus was alive he was preaching and teaching to gather people who will later become subjects of his Kingdom.
That's why he told them:

“I still have many things to say to you, but you are not able to bear them now. However, when that one comes, the spirit of the truth, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own initiative, but what he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things to come! John 16:12-13

So it was at Pentecost that God used His Holy Spirit to choose a group of worshipers {Act 2:1-4} Peter reminded the Jews in Jerusalem that day that what God promised the Israelites through His prophet is what they're seeing the fulfilment that very day {Act 2:14-21 compare to Joel 2:28-30} when the people heard Peter's utterances the honest hearted ones among them were touched in their hearts so they asked Peter and the rest of those standing having the blessings:

Now when they heard this, they were stabbed to the heart, and they said to Peter and the rest of the apostles: “Men, brothers, what should we do?” Act 2:37

The Jews already knew the name of their God and are not unaware of the works of God's Holy Spirit but one thing is missing! They don't know that Jesus is the promised Messiah, so Peter told them straightforward to repent of all what their nation did against Jesus and get baptized in the name of the same Jesus they killed if they want to be part of the beneficiaries of God's promise! Act 2:38

Many of them yielded immediately and that was how Jesus' group was established after the death, resurrection and ascension of God's Son!

So while he was alive he had no church. Before he came, he had no church, and a few years after the death of his Apostles, he had no church?
This would mean that for most of human history, the Church of God was not on earth so why do we need it now, what changed?

MaxInDHouse:
NO! After the death of the Apostles the AntiChrist (Satan's agents) began claiming Christians, they succeeded in killing all the pioneers of Christianity and they began forcing their beliefs on people with wars they called "CRUSADES" later the oppressed ones among them began protesting that's why they're called "PROTESTANTS" as they kicked against the authority of Roman Catholic Church back then. Gradually Satan was able to establish many sects all claiming denominations of the same religion but they have contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines yet they're claiming they all belong to one master even when they're killing themselves due to politics and racism!

Jesus said it not me:

Matthew 24:14; 28:19-20; Act 1:8

But when you see different sects contradicting themselves then know that they're not for the Prince of Peace! Luke 11:23

Yes, Jesus told them to go into all nations but did he give them a timeline?
I am not sure Peter and Paul took the gospel to Nigeria, Australia, or America in their day. That doesn't mean they were false.

Ayo081:
Do you mean to say He made disciples?

I guess disciples mean followers