₦airaland Forum

izzou:
What exactly will you be negotiating with?

Let me even ask you, because I perceive you don't understand the side you're taking.

What exactly will you offer the bandits for a peace deal?

The bandits will come with their demands, and you meet them halfway, and it has to be done in a manner in which it doesn't look like you're rewarding them for being criminals, and at the same time not leaving them high and dry.

This isn't Nigeria's first rodeo with this sort of rehabilitation effort. Yes their needs will differ in some way, but ultimately would coalesce around basic human needs. There are experts that would work out all these fine details, it's not my job. But my point is non-kinetic approaches would be implemented, either concurrently with the kinetic, or at the end.

izzou:
The difference is that Trump, nor any American president will ever negotiate with anyone killing Americans in the USA.

If you have any links to the USA negotiating with kidnappers or anyone killing Americans in America, I'll wait for it.

Thank you

The real question is would the US allow a domestic terrorist organization grow to this level of rascality? No.

Now that is out of the way, how does the US handle domestic criminals, do they strike deals with them for good behavior, a willingness to snitch, and for helping them close case files? Yes.

izzou:
So if I kidnap people in the US and kill them if I am not paid ransoms, you actually think Donald Trump will create a room to cut a deal with me?

How can you even look at this situation and compare it to the US and Iran? Are they the same?

Is Iran kidnapping Americans for ransom?

I am still asking anyone who cares to answer, where we as a country, should draw the line?

Asian countries are going tough on drug offences. A small milligram of cocaine fit give you life imprisonment, yet they are not cutting deals up and down.

Where exactly should we draw the line as a country, if someone who wants to kill for money can get a seat at the table?

Palestinians kidnapped Israelis, how did it end? Hostage negotiation.

Criminals regularly strike deals for shorter sentences and better prison condition.

The US has and continues to negotiate with all manner of criminals, domestic and foreign. Even for crime documentaries, you'd see serial killers negotiate escaping death penalty in return for showing the places they buried their victims.

What I see here is you're confusing the culture of negotiation for kidnapping that has come to become the norm with a holistic plan put in place by the government to force criminals to a peace deal. Nigeria has focused on the former, and not the latter.

The reason amnesty for Niger Delta Militants worked was because the militants realized that the war was only going to end with them dead or in prison, and the government knew that having the militants dead or in prison would cost them more overtime, and had no guarantee of long-term stability in the region.

BlueRayDick:
What military pressure are you talking about? Don't you read about aerial bombardment of bandits and boko haram regularly released by the milliatry ? At least Amoto posts some of them here and nobody can dispute the fact that combined efforts of Airforce and Army has been to take an offensive approach in recent times.

Killing some commanders and granting a free pass to other terrorists does not in any way guarantee abatement in the security risk those terrorists pose. It's like you've not seen 14,15- & 16-year-olds wielding assault rifles and RPG. How do you even come up with the idea of a "repentant terrorist"? A terrorist whose reason for embarking on the terror acts is his extremist religious belief. So, would you be dangling the liberal version of the religion as his lifeline?

You still haven't mentioned what will be used to negotiate with the terrorists which you are sure they will agree to without batting an eyelid

What guarantees it then? A nuclear bomb?

raumdeuter:
Why are you stealing my lines Ogbeni

When I say it you all claim its the worst statement ever. WHen I sai govt should meet the demands of the Oyo kidnappers for now, people said everything in the book, SO you now realize it too

Lol, it's something I've realized for a while now and I know would be inevitable.

Anybody thinking this war, at the stage it has gotten to will be won solely through scorched-earth approach is living in lala land. However, any negotiation/amnesty that isn't being done from a place of strenght is bound to fail.

BlueRayDick:
To be sincere everything you've written here actually lack substance. The points I can pick from your post are

1. You despise Tinubu and his government, yet you've not given any clear difference between Tinubu's current approach and Obi's proposed approach to the security situation
2. You are re-echoing the very talking points we criticized Sheikh Gumi for(Most likely in your bid to make it look like Obi's suggestion isn't silly)
3. You are living in Utopia for thinking there's any position of strength the government can be that would make Fulani Jihadists and bandits listen and negotiate with them.

In simple terms without unnecessary word salad, pray tell what exactly will the government use as bargaining chip to "negotiate" with extremist groups and hardened murderers who have caused several families pain and sorrow.

Gumi advocated negotiating with bandits from a position of sympathy and without military pressure, that is different from what I advocated for.

And I said the hardened commanders should be killed or given lenghty prison sentences...how is that the same thing as what Gumi is advocating for?

Has the Nigerian government over the years handled insecurity like it's an existential threat, and done their best to combat it through generous and judicious allocation of resources?

Whether we like it or not, at some point, non-kinetic approaches will be deployed, especially targeted at women, children that were born into a life of crime, and economically-motivated recruits. Some of them would get light sentences, and plans would be put in place to ensure there's no recividism.

This isn't a 4 year plan, it's a plan that should look decades into the future.

izzou:
Absolutely, Yes.

I will never ever ever subscribe to the school of negotiating with a kidnapper.

At what point should we even draw the line as a country?

Even the US creates room for deal-cutting, both for domestic and foreign terrorists.

If na by how Donald Trump don dey shout all along, you go reason say e go commit those billions to Iran into their rebuliding efforts? Real life is quite different from movie rhetoric.

BlueRayDick:
What's there to negotiate with Boko Haram and Bandits?

1. Boko Haram wants to fight a Jihad against western education and Islamize the entire West Africa. What is there to negotiate/dialogue with them? Will you tell them to drop extremist views and belief system? For what ? What will they be dropping it for ? What will you be offering them at the negotiation table?

2. Bandits are criminals who have set their mind to kidnap, plunder, extort and kill their fellow citizens all in the name of doing "business". They do not have any reasonable right or point they may say they are fighting for. What is their goal other than profiteering from criminality?
When Niger Delta militants were kidnapping expatriates and Nigerian oil workers in their region, they claimed they were fighting against environmental degradation, oil spillage and its attendant problem and marginalization of the region in the affairs of this country.

What will a bandit from Zamfara, Sokoto, Kebbi, Niger and Katsina claim they are fighting for which is reasonable ? This people would not embrace education that has potential of lifting them out of poverty. The farmers over there have FG through many intervention projects subsidize fertilizers for them. Why are they not engaging in agriculture like every other person instead of banditry, cattle rustling and kidnapping ?

It's not even like they have multi-billion dollars joint venture infrastructure like Niger Delta where FG gave the militants contracts to safeguard them from other thieves. Or are they(Bandits) going to expect FG to be paying them billions every month for being absolutely useless just because they have guns which they use for kidnapping and banditry?

The truth is any government that plans to or already negotiating with Bandits and Boko Haram is not a serious one at all. I share in Raumdeuter's sentiment that it is only a matter of time before such criminals and terrorists start demanding for political power like Hezbollah of Lebanon.

If indeed Obi made such reckless statement/proposition, then he's not going to be the solution to some of the problem we are presently facing under this APC administration.

Regardless of how silly their reasons might be, at some point, non-kinetic approaches would have to be deployed, especially if the plan is to maintain the peace. 

Where Nigeria has failed so far is that the kinetic approach to the war hasn't been treated with the seriousness that's required. Buhari was soft on the crimes of his brothers, and possibly even complicit, while Tinubu has managed the security situation as an extension of politics. 

Any serious government would first fire the service chiefs, and their immediate replacements then promote some young field commanders that are ready to do damage to the terrorists. The defence budget will get increased, and the money actually spent on men and weapons so they can confront these guys with confidence, no be say dem go dey outgunned as is sometimes the case. If there's need to have mercenery boots on ground for speacial operations, bring them in. Increase the size and number of prisons to house terrorists and their supporters and allies, sharp sharp judgements, not the 4-10 years nonsense we've come to be used to.

While the victory is being won, give the chance for repentance for the less ideolgically stubborn ones. Women, children, and some of those that joined because of joblessness and hunger. Their ideological core, I'm sure they'd already be known, or would be known in the couse of the offensive, those ones can't be negotiated with, either kill them, or hand them lenghty-life prison sentences.

And it's not enough to just embark on the offensive (kinetic and non-kinetic) while things become business as usual. All the conditions that made Boko Haram grow the way it did up North will need to be addressed, through governance, education, employment and legislature that softens all of that extremism up North. 

It's not an easy task, certainly not one that Tinubu is equipped to handle, but a government that is serious about combating terrorism can do these things and negotiate from a position of strength, not the one we've grown to be accustomed to. 

And this isn't me saying this is what Obi has in mind when he says he will talk with those who want peace, it's up to him to say exactly what he means, or what his approach would be.

izzou:
If Peter Obi's plan to end insecurity is to rehabilitate and engage bandits, then he's no different from the APC that he is condemning.

Every southern president/candidate must always bow down and please the North, even at the expense of the South where they come from.

Q: Will you negotiate with bandits?

Peter Obi: In uniting the country, anybody who wants peace I will talk with him, I will negotiate with him. Anybody who wants war, we will go to war.

Do you believe Boko Haram, Bandits and all other splinter orgs, at the scale they've grown to will be defeated solely through kinetic means?

raumdeuter:
I know we like seniority in Africa but you need to balance it out. Ndiaye is ready and brings energy to the game. No reason not to start him next game

Truth is football age
Mane 34; Mendy; 34; Koulibaly 34; Gana 36...vs these French young players will run you ragged

If you can't bench them know say dem go don gas out by 60mins

The coach is determined to squeeze the last drop of juice from what's said to be their golden generation.

A lot of these guys are still solid, but some of them suppose don turn rotation players or early sub. Koulibaly still decent, but the defence needs bodies around am make e no dey isolated.

Nigeria is not a real country.

raumdeuter:
Show me a politician that is not cutting deals with shady characters. Peter Obi met with Gumi

Which deal did Peter Obi cut with Gumi?

nihilistjnr:
Someone will come here and start trying to pick silly holes in my argument to split the country by pointing to India.

Matawalle doesn't have a university degree. He finished secondary school in 1985 and worked as a school teacher from 1990-1993, and a clerk in ministry of water resources from 94-98 before becoming a career politician.

This man had a less than mediocre CV that wouldn't get him a job better than a Bank Teller when he went into politics. He ended up being a Governor and ended his governorship term under investigation by EFCC for stealing 70 billion Naira

Matawalle's successor as Zamfara governor, Dauda Lawal, revealed that Matawalle wasn't just cutting deals with Bandits during his time in government house, he was buying the bandits Hilux trucks, hosting them in government house and laundering their ransom money for them.

Matawalle was supposed to be contesting Governorship in 2027. Instead Dauda Lawal the incumbent and his political opponent defected to APC a few months ago and Matawalle announced he would be dropping his own governorship bid and supporting the candidacy of the man who had directly accused him of being a Bandit Financier only last year.

Tinubu has to cut deals with both of these men because the configuration of this useless contraption requires him to get numbers in the north . So a WAEC holder with only 9 years career experience in low level clerical roles is given a portfolio like minister of state for defence, and is asked to suppress his gubernatorial ambitions for his rival who decamps and joins him the same party.

It's no surprise to hear the WAEC holder tell you that politicians are sponsoring insecurity - he's describing himself. It's no surprise to hear him telling Nigerians to pray to God to save them - he's just telling the truth, nobody can solve this problem

But but India...whilst living in a reality where even life is bängïng on a bángër boy

Tinubu is himself a shady character, and has been cutting deals with shady characters before he met either of Mattawale or Dauda Lawal.

raumdeuter:
Profiling is part of life and part of their work

A suit wearing or formally dressed family man looking Theflint1 will not look like a yahoo criminal (unless the crime is insider trading or corporate crimes) and will escape scrutiny versus a music blasting tattooed earing, Dada with sagging pants Theflint1

And many times they get it right.

I have heard news of 60 something year old women running drug cartels but they get away with scrutiny because they don't fit the profile of a criminal

True sha

izzou:


Also learn the ranks of the Police Force

When they stop you, don't say "Officer"?

Call am him rank.... Sergeant Jide, Inspector Femi...

Him mind no go gree am drill you much (If you are stopped)

BlueRayDick:
Very annoying something.

Most times when I'm driving alone, once police stop me at checkpoint and they see baby car seat at the back seat they will greet me , ask "how is the baby? " and then ask me "anything for the boys? ". I just give them anything I have (be it N500 or N1000) and they will wave me to carry on.

I always have this thought :What if I'm a criminal who has dangerous weapons or even human body in my car trunk , but I disguised with that baby car seat? Is that how they will collect roger and allow me pass without doing normal police work of searching the car?

Nigeria police are very easy to fool. Most times when I no get time for their BS I go just carry my glasses for dashboard but on top eye (10/10 they never stop me). Only time I don get extensive delays na days I forget carry my glasses comot house

You con add childrens books for dashboard or back of car, or get baby carrier like you dey do, dem no go stop you lai lai.

Na boys no just dey like drive without all those serenren, if not there's a way you can arrange car to signal responsible family man and you go almost never they get reason for police to stop you.

I guess partly is because they shouldn't be on the road in the first place hence they need make some form of concession so they don't feel like they're the completely reprehensible characters they are...these concessions ends up creating a loophole for criminals.

Once you get religious take like this, and Amoto don begin do solidarity with you, just know say you don gba beta

monerozi5590:
Wanting where sir? This thing is localized.

Are you saying Nigerians don't have freedom of exist and move in any part of their country?

People that are not vagrants or criminals will now be forced to live in fear or have their perfectly legal actions criminalized

monerozi5590:
Yeah. I was explaining that there are so many tribes and cultures in Northern Nigeria. So this Sharia is highly localized.

I was saying that what will make a business man to open beer parlor in a community where everybody is almost Muslim? In their culture, beer is forbidden. There are other areas, settlement that you will make money and sell your beer peacefully. That's my position ever since

And the point people are trying to make you see is their "culture" shouldn't prevent the man that wants to sell beer from expressing his own beer-selling culture, however individual it might be.

Beer manufacturing companies pay taxes, it's not like he's trying to sell contraband or engaging in something illegal, so anybody trying to prevent or restrict his ability to sell and drink beer is oppressing him. And it's especially worrying when this oppression has now become state-sanctioned via Sharia in what's supposed to be a secular country.

monerozi5590:
Mention one state in Northern Nigeria where they don't drink beer? I want to know whether you have really understand my position?

Is that the argument you've spent the last couple of pages making?

monerozi5590:
What's the culture of those people. He shouldn't disrespect the culture of those people.

For example, There's this Mosquerade that when he is passing, no one should come out or else you will be flogged. Then I was in the East. I didn't come out because I don't want to be flogged. Is that simple

Being in a secular state means if for whatever reason I decide to not go inline with this culture, and go about my business, I have the right to do so.

You not realizing that you've surrendered to oppression in the name of being peaceful is really funny to see...the citizens of this country do need a lot of education on the rights the constitution grants them.

GloriousGbola:
Sharap Dia!

We dey gain am massively...Edo go soon become Lagos

Well it's no different from those that say Nigerians from other states are being disrespectful to their hosts when they don't vote inline with the wishes of their "hosts".

Same mallam, different garb.

Well and truly conquered

GloriousGbola:
kidnapping as ransom started under obj


and it was the exact same pattern with DSS delivering ransoms to mend militants.

just as others wiser than you ave pointed out that efcc breaking into houses at 1m without warrant started with ribadu - the roots of kidnapping for ransom in nigeria must be acknowlegded

when it started i remember thinking f the government does not take wise and decisive action on this - we will become like latin ameica, which was the former world kidnap hq

well, they did not and the rest is hisotry

back then a lot of foolish people saw it like 419 - something only expats/whites would suffer

i remember one night in the staff bus and some clown started pointing at white guys and saying what their ransom would cost. from expats it expanded to local oil workers, then to the east - you may not recall just how bad kidnapping was as a scourge in the east in the mid - late 2000s.

now bandits and terrorists have gotten on it for purposes of jihad, and they are even more bestial than those before them

Oga this is a load of bollocks and just another way to look for any and every means to excuse Tinubu's incomeptence.

So criminals with access to weapons and an unrestrained blood lust will start picking and choosing what crimes to commit and not commit because of kidnapping that happened in the 2000s under OBJ...hahaha.

The other day it was offshoot of the fall of Libya and terrorism across the Sahel that was responsible for Tinubu's failures in security, today it's OBJ that's made kidnapping the booming business it has become under tinubu/APC.

Maybe you'd also come and say it's Nigeria's inability to persecute r#pe crimes under Shagari that make people commit r#pe crimes today, or seeing the bravado of Anini is why Boko Haram robs bank, or the popularity of Prison Break in early 2000s is responsible for their attack on prisons.

Excuses no dey finish...speak up against incomeptence with strong voice, your state has almost been runover.

GloriousGbola:
beslan was a message to everyone. hostage dont work here.

unfortunately we mismanaged the very first kidnap for ransom from obj's time, setting the stage for where we are today

Why stop at OBJ?

I'm sure you can go farther in time to explain away Tinubu's incompetence.

The Nigerian military under the lame-duck president Tinubu is incapable of executing military operations to rescue victims of kidnap, or even go after perpetrators even after ransom payments. They should do what they've been doing over the years, pay the kidnappers off and stop with the needless drama and posturing.

Nigerians that are tired of having their common wealth feed a never-ending cycle of kidnapping for ransom under Tinubu know what to do come 2027.

MorataFC:
So, I should keep quiet and allow the media to push whatever narrative suits their agenda while people spread misinformation without verification? Dey play.

Yesterday, I searched through several reputable news platforms, when they are asking for the quotes and none of them used the date from last year, they all carried the June 2nd, this year version. Yet many people were quick to accept and circulate it as if it had just happened.

What I find interesting is that if Pastor Adeboye were to make a statement that fits a certain narrative, it would be everywhere within hours. But when he speaks about issues affecting the peace, unity, and security of Nigeria, many of those same platforms suddenly go silent. Abi, how do you explain the fact that he made the statement over 8 months ago, yet 100% of users of this thread were unaware of it? No single person is aware of it.

This is exactly why people should verify facts before rushing to conclusions. A claim does not become true simply because it is repeated by many people.

BTW, your name says it all.😂

RCCG has active social media pages, and they post regularly on these pages. I'm sure they also run ads as well to increase the reach of certain aspects of the church comms they want out there.

If they can publicize certain types of messages, I don't see why they can't take control of the narrative that concerns safety of Christians and Nigerians at large, while making their positions known unequivocally.

I can't count how many times I've seen videos of Oyedepo criticizing the government over the years, na the same news platforms wey no sabi carry Adeboye own dey carry Oyedepo, Suleman, Paul Enenche, Oritsejafor and the others own...have you asked yourself why Adeboye's case is different?

From what it seems like, Adeboye doesn't consider being vocal about the security situation in the country a priority....maybe because he thinks it's pointless and would rather focus on other things, or he doesn't want to ruffle feathers as people have said.

BlueRayDick:
So we shouldn't believe the official result but believe speculations? I thought you used to deal with on my facts and official reports 🤷‍♂️

I just dey watch in astonishment as e dey dish bad advice of late.

Last time around it was that we should abandon history, today it's let's not believe official reports, but instead rely on what they acted inside Van Damme film.

This 2027 market go reveal plenty things

raumdeuter:
What was their reason that made sense to you and didnt appear to be laced in tribalism?

I didn't agree with the reasons given, neither do I think they were laced in tribalism.

raumdeuter:
Who tell you say dem no de pay people for abroad

Its kay and commendable to criticize from a place of national interest, once tribal coloring don enter that becomes a problem

2 people cant commit the same crime yet the punishment for one is bigger than the other.

Only those who are not perceptive and do not know the history of Nigeria wont clock it, No be today we dey hear This politician Pastor, celebrity from this side is corrupt, is bad, but the one from our side are angels or excuses start coming out about why they are not given the same treatment

Look back to the first coup you will see signs. 60yrs later we are still seeing it

Who who comes to equity must come with clean hands.

You were very vocal about issues of insecurity and the quality of life of Nigerian's under Jonathan, but have turned defender in chief for Tinubu/APC even though all the things you complained about then have gotten worse.

Are you motivated by national, or tribal interest?

raumdeuter:
Good example, I am glad you mentioned Tunde Onakoya
Why Tunde and What was Tunde Onakoyas crime? Can you help list it? Tunde didnt even campaign for anyone. That is a peak example of the agenda we talk about

Can you or anyone mention Tundes crime

The people that were dragging Tunde gave their reasons, your thoughts on what they gave as their reasons is up to you.