₦airaland Forum

This is what the Lord of hosts has to say: 'I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt. Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.' (1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB)

4Him:
1. It took you so long to come up with that example.

Was distracted by my son who want to go to bed. Sorry about the delay. BTW, also notice it took you a while to respond

4Him:
2. You quoted ONLY the portion that you think suits your own preconcieved notions forgetting that Verses 1-25 are the most important clues to understanding why Moses took that action.

In the bible days, about 4000yrs ago, the punishment for disobedience (breaking the law) and sin was death. Read through from verse 1 to thoroughly understand Moses action.
If Moses simply woke up one morning and decided to slaughter his brothers then you would have had justification.

So what abrogates that law now? What about small innocent children and animals that Moses and Joshua killed?

therationa:
(Moses) stood at the entrance to the camp and shouted, "All of you who are on the LORD's side, come over here and join me." And all the Levites came. He told them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Strap on your swords! Go back and forth from one end of the camp to the other, killing even your brothers, friends, and neighbors." The Levites obeyed Moses, and about three thousand people died that day. Then Moses told the Levites, "Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD, for you obeyed him even though it meant killing your own sons and brothers. Because of this, he will now give you a great blessing." (Exodus 32:26-29 NLT)

And this was against his own people, not in a battle.

(Moses) stood at the entrance to the camp and shouted, "All of you who are on the LORD's side, come over here and join me." And all the Levites came. He told them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Strap on your swords! Go back and forth from one end of the camp to the other, killing even your brothers, friends, and neighbors." The Levites obeyed Moses, and about three thousand people died that day. Then Moses told the Levites, "Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD, for you obeyed him even though it meant killing your own sons and brothers. Because of this, he will now give you a great blessing." (Exodus 32:26-29 NLT)

4Him:
Good. I have another question . . . would you charge the British troops in Iraq with murder?

On the British troops; if the killed in the course of battle or in self-defense - No.

If they killed recklessly, defenseless civilians who pose no dangers to them - Yes.

Want to know how modern whales came about? Watch this video ;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewtw_nZUIDQ&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2C-3PjNGok

or watch on http://www.richarddawkins.net/article,2291,Whale-Evolution,PBS

http://www.pbs.org/cgi-registry/2wgbh/evolution/library/search.cgi

Enjoy.

4Him:
therationalist, which would land you in a murder trial?
A - you shot your friend in the head for sleeping with your wife.
B - the police shot an escaping fugitive.

A - would certainly get you in court for murder.

B - ordinarily this will not land the cop in court, unless there are other circumstance that reveal the cop was reckless and the victim was harmless, etc

4Him:
Therationalist . . . you miss a vital point. Murder is against the law yes but will you prosecute British troops or the police for killing robbers or Iraqi insurgents?

4HIM, Thankx: When I wrote the post, I had the "murder" in my mind but did not want to put it down in the.

But is killing in the line of duty for say, a police, the same as killing your friend of a business dispute?

How about a human "killing" a Neandarthal ? Would that have contravened the commandment?

Thankx for quick responses, guys. Have added more stuff.

Thou shalt not kill.

This is one of the 10 commandments from the Old Testament given to Moses by God on Mt Sinai. But no sooner had he received them than God sent him on an errand to kill tens of thousands of people from his own and neighbouring tribes.

Moses stood at the entrance to the camp and shouted, "All of you who are on the LORD's side, come over here and join me." And all the Levites came. He told them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Strap on your swords! Go back and forth from one end of the camp to the other, killing even your brothers, friends, and neighbors." The Levites obeyed Moses, and about three thousand people died [/b]that day. Then Moses told the Levites, "Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD, for you obeyed him even though it meant killing your own sons and brothers. Because of this, he will now give you a great blessing." (Exodus 32:26-29 NLT)

This is what the Lord of hosts has to say: 'I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt. Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, b[b]ut kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.' (1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB)


When the people heard the sound of the horns, they shouted as loud as they could. Suddenly, the walls of Jericho collapsed, and the Israelites charged straight into the city from every side and captured it. They completely destroyed everything in it – men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep, donkeys – everything. (Joshua 6:20-21 NLT)


So what was the point of this commandment? Was it really meant to be observed?

Is there any sense in which killing is acceptable in the Christian world-view? Is this a prohibition of killing only of sentient human being?

Imagine the day when modern humans (homo sapiens) first encountered the Neandarthals in Europe (some ~30000 years ago). Could this commandment have been invoked to prevent the one killing the other?

Would such barbaric behaviour be acceptable today?

Uche2nna:
Well, your argument will be valid if everybody in the world thinks there is no God. But as far as the majority of the earth's population believes in God then there is a need for churches, synagogues, mosques, temples etc

You are right. These "houses of gods" are Institutions For the Promotion of Ignorance and credulity". As long as there as such people who feed of the falsehood of the clerics, they will want these "houses".

watch this video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZegCz2uj3xI

Or look for my post about Benny Hinn and see if what this guys pebbles is not deceit?

[quote author=K-OLA link=topic=114682.msg1982910#msg1982910 date=1203626629]A church should:
1-Close
2-Stay closed
3-Never reopen

That's interesting, why would you want them gone? Do you think they don't make an contributions to the society?[/quote]Can you name one thing that could NOT be done by other institutions if we did not have churches? The churches are superfluous to requirements in The Age of Reason. All they are now are a thinly-disguised means of exploiting the simple and vulnerable.

Science may one day explain why we have intensely feelings of the religious type. Some of the heighten feeling of religious arousal have been replicated in the lab with the subjects reporting exactly the same type of feelings and sensations that religious believers experience.

Watch the attached video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuOpa7OzMNU.

It has been known by New Testament scholars that the NT narratives are directly inspired by the OT text. Take a look at the following two narrative, one from Psalm, which predates the Mark narrative by about 1000 years. What stands out is the very close correspondence in some of the phraseology of the two narratives, in spite of the 1000 years gap in the events they describe.

Is it a coincidence OR is the NT narrative based on the Psalm text?



[table]
[tr][td]Psalm 22[/td][td]Mark 15[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]
1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from helping me, from the words of my groaning?
2 O my God, I cry by day, but you do not answer; and by night, but find no rest.
3 Yet you are holy, enthroned on the praises of Israel.
4 In you our ancestors trusted; they trusted, and you delivered them.
5 To you they cried, and were saved; in you they trusted, and were not put to shame.
6 But I am a worm, and not human; scorned by others, and despised by the people.
7 All who see me mock at me; they make mouths at me, they shake their heads;
8 'Commit your cause to the Lord; let him deliver— let him rescue the one in whom he delights!'

9 Yet it was you who took me from the womb; you kept me safe on my mother's breast.
10 On you I was cast from my birth, and since my mother bore me you have been my God.
11 Do not be far from me, for trouble is near and there is no one to help.

12 Many bulls encircle me, strong bulls of Bashan surround me;
13 they open wide their mouths at me, like a ravening and roaring lion.

14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint; my heart is like wax;
it is melted within my breast;
15 my mouth is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to my jaws;
you lay me in the dust of death.

16 For dogs are all around me;
a company of evildoers encircles me.
My hands and feet have shriveled;
17 I can count all my bones.
They stare and gloat over me;
18 they divide my clothes among themselves,
and for my clothing they cast lots.

19 But you, O Lord, do not be far away!
O my help, come quickly to my aid!
20 Deliver my soul from the sword,
my life from the power of the dog!
21 Save me from the mouth of the lion!

From the horns of the wild oxen you have rescued me.
22 I will tell of your name to my brothers and sisters;
in the midst of the congregation I will praise you:
23 You who fear the Lord, praise him!
All you offspring of Jacob, glorify him;
stand in awe of him, all you offspring of Israel!
24 For he did not despise or abhor
the affliction of the afflicted;
he did not hide his face from me,
but heard when I cried to him.

25 From you comes my praise in the great congregation;
my vows I will pay before those who fear him.
26 The poor shall eat and be satisfied;
those who seek him shall praise the Lord.
May your hearts live for ever!

27 All the ends of the earth shall remember
and turn to the Lord;
and all the families of the nations
shall worship before him.
28 For dominion belongs to the Lord,
and he rules over the nations.

29 To him, indeed, shall all who sleep in the earth bow down;
before him shall bow all who go down to the dust,
and I shall live for him.
30 Posterity will serve him;
future generations will be told about the Lord,
31 and proclaim his deliverance to a people yet unborn,
saying that he has done it.[/td]
[td] 24 And they crucified him, and divided his clothes among them, casting lots to decide what each should take.

25 It was nine o'clock in the morning when they crucified him.
26 The inscription of the charge against him read, 'The King of the Jews.'
27 And with him they crucified two bandits, one on his right and one on his left.
29 Those who passed by mocked him, shaking their heads and saying, 'Aha! You who would destroy the temple and build it in three days,
30 save yourself, and come down from the cross!'
31 In the same way the chief priests, along with the scribes, were also mocking him among themselves and saying, 'He saved others; he cannot save himself.
32 Let the Messiah, the King of Israel, come down from the cross now, so that we may see and believe.' Those who were crucified with him also taunted him.

33 When it was noon, darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon.
34 At three o'clock Jesus cried out with a loud voice, 'Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?' which means, 'My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?'
35 When some of the bystanders heard it, they said, 'Listen, he is calling for Elijah.'
36 And someone ran, filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on a stick, and gave it to him to drink, saying, 'Wait, let us see whether Elijah will come to take him down.'
37 Then Jesus gave a loud cry and breathed his last.
38 And the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom.
39 Now when the centurion, who stood facing him, saw that in this way he breathed his last, he said, 'Truly this man was the son of God!' [/td][/tr]
[/table]

Benny Hinn in action again. You will be amazed what this sharlatan is up to.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lImsJMNtgHc

Know any charlatan around you?

imhotep:
I am saying that faith should not be divorced from reason. Divorcing them has led many astray. Reason should be [i]enlightened [/i]by faith.

The scientific progress made in Europe can be attributed to Christianity. Christianity ultimately deleted superstition from the minds of the would-be scientists. This left them free to reason properly. Compare this with Africa where some people still believe that Sango is responsible for thunder and lightening.

The definition of faith is taken from the book of Hebrews 11:1. I chose to leave the Greek word [i]hypostasis [/i]for your further research.

OK. Take for instance the Catholic doctrine of immaculate conception OR assumption. Assumption is not in the bible nor is immaculate conception. Now, do you accept these as articles of faith? What level of rationalism and reason have you used to investigate the plausibility of these doctrine?

bawomolo:
How do you know the Black man is God

beside i said so and the great books from egypt said so.

Thats what christianity stands for
Love your neighbor as your self

true, the bible also sanctions slavery, i guess that's love. u don't need religion to tell u how to treat other humans.



Pilgrimage?
that is not a requirement for living a Christian life

i'm talking about religion in general


10%tax?
We give because we r grateful.

so the only way of showing thanks to god is by giving out 10% of what u own. that doesn't make sense. give what belong to ceasar to ceasar right. does God take credit card or cash??


Dogma?
you contradict yourself

do u know the meaning of dogma



Oh well, It all whitey fault.

i'm liberal and not an afrocentrist. racial ideologies are comical to me. why put a race to your God, white christian God??


NGE- nation of Gods and earth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nation_of_Gods_and_Earths

i'm not a member nor do i care about most of their beliefs

Had a quick look. Looks to me like another form of superstitionists. Stay well clear of them, except to know enough to about them to challenge and dismiss them.

What is NGE?

imhotep:
You mean in marriage?

I meant, should I exercise lustfulness towards someone with the view that we may one day get married?