₦airaland Forum

imhotep:
@therationa
You will be all alone on whatever new thread you are starting. Instead of tackling the core of issues, you are distracted by particular instances.

BTW, do you think you are better than all these people you are lampooning

I did not make a claim of superiority over these people, or any one else. I am simply saying, let's examine what they are claiming to be able to do. Why is their evidence?


I have started a new thread to discuss you favorite subject, since you want to bash rationalism

I have started this thread as a discussion site for the slightly more philosophical questions of rationalism, reason and faith, as to which is the best reliable epistemological approach for enquiring into the nature of reality.

I define rationalism and reason pure as the systematic analysis, experimentation, verifiability and questioning of the nature of reality. Scientific rationalism is grounded on the scientific method, but generally, it posits that nothing should be accepted as knowledge until it is proven as true and is consistently verified to be so.

Faith, on the other hand, is the acceptance of claims where no evidence exist. In fact, it is premised on the acceptance of proposition in spite of evidence. For if a claim is sustained by evidence, that claim can no longer be accepted as an article of faith, but now falls within the domain of rational knowledge;

Some example to set the scene:

It is an article of knowledge that the earth revolves around the sun because this has be shown to be so using the techniques of scientific rationalism. It is not an article of faith, as it once was believe some centuries ago (for which the cleric persecuted Galileo and Geordano Bruno) that the earth was the centre of the universe; made so by God as his special creation for his special creatures. So within cosmology, scientific rationalism has displaces faith.

It was once taken as an article of faith that humans have existed on the planet for only about 10000 years. Now this has been shown, through scientific rationalism to be untenable.

Faith claims are the following; Virgin birth, immaculate conception, existence of Jesus, origin of sin etc etc.

So on this thread, I would like the various participants to demonstrate which approach provides the better epistemic methodology for revealing the nature of reality and also provide supporting evidence as to why they are making such claims.

Thankx

=====================================================================================================

Some of my other threads


The Dangers Of Religious Fundamentalism To Intellectualism
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110955.msg1929006#msg1929006

Origin Of Christianity And Diabolical Mimicry In Anticipation
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113860.0.html

Hell Past, Hell Present; Which Do You Prefer?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113947.0.html#msg1971669

Scientific Rationalism, Reason And Faith: Which Produces Systematic Knowledge?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-114253.0.html

On The Prophesy Of The Virgin Birth Of Jesus, Part 2:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113676.0.html

On The Historical Reliability Of The Bible
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-114215.0.html

When And From Where Did Jesus Ascend Into Heaven
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113519.0.html

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-114023.0.html#msg1972418
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-114023.0.html#msg1972418

When Was Jesus Born?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113449.0.html

On The Prophesy Of The Virgin Birth Of Jesus [/b]13012dg
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113342.0.html#msg1963529

[b] Was Jesus The Prophesied Messiah? Let's Look At The Evidence.
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113303.0.html

What Are Your Chances Of Being Saved?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113283.0.html

Who Wrote The Gospels And When Were They Written?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113277.0.html#msg1962589

God Selects The Rulers Of Countries; G W Bush, Sadam, Pol Pot, Abacha, Hitler
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113186.0.html#msg1961537

Cannibalism In The Bible: Det 28:53-57, Lev 26:29, Jer 19:9, Ezek 5:10, Lam 4:10
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113181.0.html#msg1961343

What Are The Core Tenets (doctrines, Value And Virtues) Of Christainity?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112990.0.html

Faith-healer And Evangelist, Maurice Cerullo, Investigated
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113871.0.html

What Fate For Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Constantine And Tomás De Torquemada?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112997.0.html#msg1958617

Is The Doctrine Of Trinity Biblical? The Johannine Comma
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112865.0.html#msg1957266

On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 2
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112848.0.html

How Is Salvation Achieved?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112833.0.html

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles And Some History: Who Was Jesus?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112697.msg1954632#msg1954632

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles: Old Testament Stories
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112679.msg1954426#msg1954426

Human Sacrifice In The Bible: Lev 27: 29 & Judges 11
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112584.msg1953340#msg1953340

Please, Please, Please: Christians - Read Read Read Your Bibles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112578.msg1953311#msg1953311

When Was Jesus Crucified?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112557.msg1952665#msg1952665

On Conversion To A Religion (christianity Or I-slam)
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112547.msg1952353#msg1952353

Faith-healers And Tele-evangelists
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112398.msg1950528#msg1950528

Where Did Sin Originate?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112377.msg1950291#msg1950291

For The Non-beleivers Only, 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112262.msg1948957#msg1948957

Would Christains Be Criminals And Offenders If They Were Not Christians?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112259.msg1948919#msg1948919

On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112240.msg1948631#msg1948631

Has Atheism Got Principle? No
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112216.msg1948180#msg1948180

It Is Biblical To Have Sex (and Lots Of It) Before Marriage
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112139.msg1946940#msg1946940

Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112114.msg1946682#msg1946682

Founding A State or Nation On Religious Principles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112086.msg1946268#msg1946268

Great Books About Non-belief
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111928.msg1943935#msg1943935

Who Are The Self-declared Non-believer? Resources For You
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111806.msg1942137#msg194111quc02137

Beware of a Simplistic Interpretation of Jesus's 2nd Coming Passages
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111677.msg1939992#msg1939992

What Is The Evidence That The Bible Is The Word Of God?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113161.0.html#msg1960928

Archbishop Cause Furore Over Sharia Law In The Uk
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111645.msg1939155#msg1939155

Eminent Christian Scientist (francis Collins) Explains The Evolution Of Humans
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111482.msg1936158#msg1936158

Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111474.msg1936099#msg1936099

Why Biology Is So Important To Our Modern World
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111466.msg1935975#msg1935975

Genesis Vs Genetics
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111227.msg1932655#msg1932655

Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-111474.0.html

Jesus Genealogy
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111222.msg1932616#msg1932616

£300 (three - Hundred Pound Sterling) Essay Competition
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111143.msg1931508#msg1931508

Beware Of Religious Fundamentalism In Your University Campuses
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110965.msg1929160#msg1929160

====================================================================================================

imhotep:
@therationa
You always fail to see the link ->

1) Rationalism is "any view appealing to reason as a source of knowledge or justification"
2) Atheism is based on rationalism
3) Communism is based on atheism (among other things)
4) Stalin was a communist
5) Over 3000 church buildings were demolished during the Russian revolution
5) Stalin murdered at least 20 million of his country men

So, all rationalists [b]must [/b]claim Stalin as their elder brother and communist Russia as a [i]beautiful [/i]example of a state run on reason alone.

Since you do not understand, I will start a separate thread, just so we can talk about Reason, Rationalism and faith. Please, leave this thread alone for discussion about faith healing and Cerullo

If you want to talk on this thread, lets talk on topic, please, please, please. There's a separate thread for the other stuff.

imhotep:
@therationa

Now you sound like a communist. Communists believed that religion is the opium of the people. Communist states are atheistic.

Stalin headed communist Russia and is responsible for at least 20 million murders and the physicial destruction of over 3000 church buildings. This should also count as one of the achievements of rationality.

Back to your old tactic again. Look at the title of this thread and let's discuss on topic. Otherwise, am out.

Also watch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jgzlV0KGJg

imhotep:
@therationa
Scientific rationalism should be able to stand on its own as a complete system. If it has to survive by bashing the belief systems of other people, then it is a weak system and also a threat to our civilization.

Astronomy has triumphed over astrology as a way of understanding the cosmos. Today, you do not consult astrologer to determine the nature of stars in the cosmos.

Religion will eventually go the way of astrology.

The big tele-evangelists (Benny Hinn, Copelands, Popoff etc) travel the world in their air-conditioned jets, leaving in their wake undelivered promises, shattered hopes and poorer people. The damage these people do is incalculable. Are you aware of such people operating in your community?

Please, expose them here

The multiple lies of Benny Hinn. Raising a man from the dead?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W00XTNFJXk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WzFEccxFkY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJGmZCZzXCg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jgzlV0KGJg

And people believe this man?

Did you see how he undermines people with fear and then pleads for donations? Incredible

Some more videos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqPIE7ddXRY

I have shown on some of my other threads why one must treat with caution with some of the major narratives of the bible. I showed that from the biblical narratives, it is not possible to reconcile the Nativity stories within the gospels and with the historical actualities.

In this thread, I would like to pose a general question, which is the following;

Are there any biblical events or narratives that can be demonstrated as having historical verifiability?


For instance, can the following events be shown to have a basis in history?

1) Garden of Eden
2) The Jewish sojourn in Egypt
3) The Noah Flood
4) The conquest at Jericho
5) Earthquake at the crucifixion of Jesus
6) Resurrection of dead saints
7) King David's kingdom
8-) The massacre of the innocent by Herod
9) The star of Bethlehem
10) The existence of King Ezekiel
11) The existence of Jesus

=====================================================================================================

Some of my other threads


The Dangers Of Religious Fundamentalism To Intellectualism
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110955.msg1929006#msg1929006

Origin Of Christianity And Diabolical Mimicry In Anticipation
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113860.0.html

Hell Past, Hell Present; Which Do You Prefer?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113947.0.html#msg1971669

On The Prophesy Of The Virgin Birth Of Jesus, Part 2:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113676.0.html

On The Historical Reliability Of The Bible
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-114215.0.html

When And From Where Did Jesus Ascend Into Heaven
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113519.0.html

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-114023.0.html#msg1972418
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-114023.0.html#msg1972418

When Was Jesus Born?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113449.0.html

On The Prophesy Of The Virgin Birth Of Jesus [/b]13012dg
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113342.0.html#msg1963529

[b] Was Jesus The Prophesied Messiah? Let's Look At The Evidence.
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113303.0.html

What Are Your Chances Of Being Saved?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113283.0.html

Who Wrote The Gospels And When Were They Written?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113277.0.html#msg1962589

God Selects The Rulers Of Countries; G W Bush, Sadam, Pol Pot, Abacha, Hitler
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113186.0.html#msg1961537

Cannibalism In The Bible: Det 28:53-57, Lev 26:29, Jer 19:9, Ezek 5:10, Lam 4:10
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113181.0.html#msg1961343

What Are The Core Tenets (doctrines, Value And Virtues) Of Christainity?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112990.0.html

Faith-healer And Evangelist, Maurice Cerullo, Investigated
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113871.0.html

What Fate For Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Constantine And Tomás De Torquemada?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112997.0.html#msg1958617

Is The Doctrine Of Trinity Biblical? The Johannine Comma
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112865.0.html#msg1957266

On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 2
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112848.0.html

How Is Salvation Achieved?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112833.0.html

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles And Some History: Who Was Jesus?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112697.msg1954632#msg1954632

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles: Old Testament Stories
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112679.msg1954426#msg1954426

Human Sacrifice In The Bible: Lev 27: 29 & Judges 11
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112584.msg1953340#msg1953340

Please, Please, Please: Christians - Read Read Read Your Bibles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112578.msg1953311#msg1953311

When Was Jesus Crucified?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112557.msg1952665#msg1952665

On Conversion To A Religion (christianity Or I-slam)
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112547.msg1952353#msg1952353

Faith-healers And Tele-evangelists
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112398.msg1950528#msg1950528

Where Did Sin Originate?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112377.msg1950291#msg1950291

For The Non-beleivers Only, 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112262.msg1948957#msg1948957

Would Christains Be Criminals And Offenders If They Were Not Christians?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112259.msg1948919#msg1948919

On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112240.msg1948631#msg1948631

Has Atheism Got Principle? No
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112216.msg1948180#msg1948180

It Is Biblical To Have Sex (and Lots Of It) Before Marriage
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112139.msg1946940#msg1946940

Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112114.msg1946682#msg1946682

Founding A State or Nation On Religious Principles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112086.msg1946268#msg1946268

Great Books About Non-belief
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111928.msg1943935#msg1943935

Who Are The Self-declared Non-believer? Resources For You
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111806.msg1942137#msg194111quc02137

Beware of a Simplistic Interpretation of Jesus's 2nd Coming Passages
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111677.msg1939992#msg1939992

What Is The Evidence That The Bible Is The Word Of God?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113161.0.html#msg1960928

Archbishop Cause Furore Over Sharia Law In The Uk
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111645.msg1939155#msg1939155

Eminent Christian Scientist (francis Collins) Explains The Evolution Of Humans
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111482.msg1936158#msg1936158

Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111474.msg1936099#msg1936099

Why Biology Is So Important To Our Modern World
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111466.msg1935975#msg1935975

Genesis Vs Genetics
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111227.msg1932655#msg1932655

Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-111474.0.html

Jesus Genealogy
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111222.msg1932616#msg1932616

£300 (three - Hundred Pound Sterling) Essay Competition
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111143.msg1931508#msg1931508

Beware Of Religious Fundamentalism In Your University Campuses
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110965.msg1929160#msg1929160

====================================================================================================

We attack christianity and other religions because it is falsehood and we are advocates for the truth.

Has any one computed their chances of being saved yet?

See watch another man of God is up to:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiOJXKKI9JU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqPIE7ddXRY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhABtxeUJvQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W00XTNFJXk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZegCz2uj3xI

Enjoy

4Him:
its not about Matthew being wrong but about you two hypocrites struggling desperately to read errors into his gospel.
that Matthew mentioned "them" does not mean he wanted to say that Christ rode on both animals at ONCE.
you can think rationally, excercise your brain.

A colt is much smaller than an Ass . . . it would take a feat of genius for a man to ride 2 animals of different sizes at once.

i know . . . this two dudes like to make a lot of inconsequential noise. For once i decided to waste a bit of time pushing their own "questions" up their noses.

I give up. I have seen far better christian apologetical defenses to this than I have seen from you. checkout http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/595, you might learn a few.

There a very good book written in prose style about the events leading up to the Council of Nicea, The Arian Controversy. If you can grab a copy, I will urge you to. Very entertaining. It is called "When Jesus Became God" by Richard Rubenstein.

Checkout the reviews on Amazom. http://www.amazon.com/When-Jesus-Became-God-Christianity/dp/0156013150/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1203442899&sr=8-1

4Him:
Dont you think such a feat would have warranted special mention? It takes a miracle to ride an ass and a much smaller colt AT THE SAME TIME don't you think?

I expect you to not just be able to ask questions but to be able to think things through yourself. Can you ride an ass and a smaller colt at the same time?

So which version is wrong? Matt's?

and set Him on them. While it does not say he rode both, He was set on both(THEM). If you do not accept the version of events as narrated in Matt as plausible, the Matt is wrong. PERIOD.

It says in the bible (Matt) that He rode on THEM

They brought the donkey and the colt, laid their clothes on them, and set Him on them

I sometimes watch the American and African Tele-evangelists (yes, I do have moments of levity), the likes of Benny Hinn, TD Jakes, John Hagee, Pastor Matthew, Creflo Dollar (what great name for this line of business) but nothing is more egregious that the evangelist who make direct appeals for donations. I mean very direct appeals. Robert Tilton and Oral Roberts are but two of such evangelist. It looks like the days when such begging were covertly made in the guise of sowing seed, helping doing God's work etc are but a thing of the past. The scandal of evangelical guilty-impacting pleading for money is nearing the proportions of those of indulgences that scandalised the Catholic church in the Middle Ages.

That some of these congregants fail to see the lavish live-styles of these venal evangelists they help funding is an of sheer short-sightedness. Without making comparisons to 1st century Judea, do these people lead their lives in the spirit of what Jesus would have approved?

While "sell your possessions and give your money to the poor" is not to be taken literally, does that not indicate that Jesus would have favoured a simple lifestyle. In many occasions Jesus showed his absolute distaste for wealth, especially of the type that is flaunted about. Yet, the vast majority of the leading Christian mission today contravenes the spirit of his message. The Vatican is one of the wealthiest institutions of the world, possessing huge reserves of gold and property across the world. The evangelical community is fast catching up, with it gross and tackily designed palaces of ego-worship and fashion display, dotted all over the world. Have you seen how these evangelist are dressed, in the most arcane satorial sense. Now, I hear Nigeria has one of the biggest of such palaces.

Was it not Jesus who said "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God"?

Was it not Jesus who narrated the parable of Lazarus and the rich man - in which Lazarus goes to heaven only because he was poor and the rich man goes to hell only because he was rich?

Was it not Jesus who said? "Blessed are the poor , "

In what sense are these suppose to be understood?


Nowhere in the bible did Jesus specifically sided or showed approval for wealth or the wealthy. You would have to go back to the Old Testament to see instance of righteousness being rewarded with material wealth right here on earth. So to me, whatever it may call itself, the majority of the Christian world have departed from the true spirit of the life and message of Jesus.

4Him:
therationalist . . . why don't you try riding two horses at once then come tell us how nice the experience was.

Don't know about horses. Donkeys are rather milder tempered than horses. So with some luck I think I can pull it off with two donkeys (one of which has got to be a colt - less bad tempered than his mother). Not even Jesus could have done it on horses.

4Him:
therationalist . . . can you prove to us that Jesus Christ never existed in history? That should be the starting point of your pointless ramblings, seriously.

I can't prove he did not exist (for reasons you already know), but at least I would expect the stories told of him to be consistent and coherent. Am afraid, that standard is not met in his case. For a god, this is a terrible indictment.

Could he not have ensured that his message remained "cast in stone" as it were for all eternity, never to be conflated with other gods. What is the point of making himself so hard to be believed?

Matthew 21:1 - 9 paints the following scene:

Now when they drew near Jerusalem, and came to Bethphage, at the Mount of Olives, then Jesus sent two disciples, saying to them, “Go into the village opposite you, and immediately you will find a donkey tied, and a colt with her. Loose them and bring them to Me. And if anyone says anything to you, you shall say, ‘The Lord has need of them,’ and immediately he will send them.” All this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying: “Tell the daughter of Zion, ‘Behold, your King is coming to you, lowly, and sitting on a donkey, a colt, the foal of a donkey.’ ” So the disciples went and did as Jesus commanded them. They brought the donkey and the colt, laid their clothes on them, and set Him on them. And a very great multitude spread their clothes on the road; others cut down branches from the trees and spread them on the road. Then the multitudes who went before and those who followed cried out, saying: “Hosanna to the Son of David! ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ Hosanna in the highest!”

Now consider the following;

Was Jesus riding one or both animals?

Do you know why this story appears at all in Matthew? It there a chance Matthew was simply setting the scene up so that it looked like the fulfillment of prophecy but was a bit careless with his facts?

Horus:
behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass’s colt. (John 12:15, in part)

If you Christians want to worship something, why don’t you worship the ass? After all, it was the ass that bore the Messiah Jesus’ weight and delivered him to the city of Jerusalem. The palms on the other hand, were merely laid on the ground to be stepped on and crumbled.

Funny you mentioned this event. Check it out again. You will see that Jesus did not only ride an ass, he rode the ass and its colt (young) into Jerusalem. Now that's really funny, riding tow animals at the same time. I thought they did not have rodes shows back then.

Alphazee:
@therationa,
What an Impartial God!

Do the DOGS read these verses of the Bible or are they just content WAGGING their tails while awaiting the elusive Bread RESERVED for the Daughters (and Sons?) of Isreal? Or will the CRUMBS suffice?

Please start BARKING!

Funny; will never see dogs and bread together again in the same light

Alphazee:
@therationa"Once Beaten, Twice Shy". So what happens when you're Beaten Twice? As far as I'm concerned, if the above quotation can be remotely traced to Jesus, then He did not come for the rest of us The closest a "Jesus" came to us in Naija was the "Jesus of Oyingbo"

I have managed to trace the relevant verses. Here we go;


Matthew 10:5-6

5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans.
6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.


Matthew 15:24
21Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession."

23Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us."

24He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."

25The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said.

26He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."

27"Yes, Lord," she said, "but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table."

28Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

stimulus:
@therationa,

Sorry, he did not make your point. I don't see how you have intellectually discussed your own assumptions and stayed your ground in the several issues relating to this that have been addressed already - until you specificallly asked that some of us should not reply to your threads.

You only have been looking for cheap avenues to celebrate a hollow victory that the Bible is not "historically reliable". Haw! I still do not see how you have been able to demonstrate any intellectual and rational reasoning before you applauded yourself.

Stimulus, I did NOT say you SHOULD NOT reply to my threads. I said you are not obliged to respond (or you MAY not respond), which are not the same thing. Which means I reserve the right to respond, but don't expect a respond.

Hey, BTW, you have been responding to some of my threads, haven't you? What I detested was you personal abusive tone, although I was trying to be respectful to you. I believe we can discuss facts/history/theology without personal attacks.
I have notices the tone of your vitriolic style against some of the mu-slim posters, so it seems to be characteristic of your style.

In your less-abusive manner, you really are a good discussant

We need education in scientific rationalism to counter the lurch towards superstition. Read this article;
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-110965.0.html#msg1972234

PLC:
You have already disputed the concrete answer given in the bible as regard when Jesus was crucified. So, I wonder where you expect us (Christians) in this forum to provide answer from, if not from the same bible you have failed to believe.

Thanks. you made my point. There is very little that is historically reliable from the bible. We know little about where/when he was born, little about where he grew up, little about his family, even less about his real message, little about when he was crucified.

So can we trust the bible for historical accuracy? If the answer is NO, why should we trust it for anything else?

That Jesus was a man of contradiction would not have escaped the keen reader on the bible. He is supposed to be the bearer of the good news message, but such message is usually couched ambiguous language and parables. On the one hand he preaches the notion of loving your neighbour, on the other hand advocates violence. He even espoused the concept of eternal punishment for the first time in the Christian belief worldview.

He is held up as the paragon of family values, yet he is curt with his own family members, addressing his mother in abusive terms and advocating the abandonment of family ties as a pre-requisite for discipleship. Nowhere is his contradictory character more aptly illustrated than in his attitude towards non-Jews.

There are two occasions in the bible where Jesus is seemed to imply that his "messages was meant only for the lost tribe of the house of Israel" and implored his disciple "not to take the message into the Gentile communities". Yet, further on, he is seen to advise he followers to take the message to the world at large.

So what really does Jesus stand for? What are we to make of this bigotry to non-Jews attributed to him in the gospels?


See the following verses for the bigoted messages:

Matthew 10: 5-6
Matthew 15: 21-28


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Some of my other threads


The Dangers Of Religious Fundamentalism To Intellectualism
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110955.msg1929006#msg1929006

Origin Of Christianity And Diabolical Mimicry In Anticipation
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113860.0.html

Hell Past, Hell Present; Which Do You Prefer?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113947.0.html#msg1971669

On The Prophesy Of The Virgin Birth Of Jesus, Part 2:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113676.0.html

When And From Where Did Jesus Ascend Into Heaven
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113519.0.html

When Was Jesus Born?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113449.0.html

On The Prophesy Of The Virgin Birth Of Jesus [/b]13012dg
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113342.0.html#msg1963529

[b] Was Jesus The Prophesied Messiah? Let's Look At The Evidence.
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113303.0.html

What Are Your Chances Of Being Saved?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113283.0.html

Who Wrote The Gospels And When Were They Written?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113277.0.html#msg1962589

God Selects The Rulers Of Countries; G W Bush, Sadam, Pol Pot, Abacha, Hitler
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113186.0.html#msg1961537

Cannibalism In The Bible: Det 28:53-57, Lev 26:29, Jer 19:9, Ezek 5:10, Lam 4:10
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113181.0.html#msg1961343

What Are The Core Tenets (doctrines, Value And Virtues) Of Christainity?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112990.0.html

Faith-healer And Evangelist, Maurice Cerullo, Investigated
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113871.0.html

What Fate For Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Constantine And Tomás De Torquemada?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112997.0.html#msg1958617

Is The Doctrine Of Trinity Biblical? The Johannine Comma
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112865.0.html#msg1957266

On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 2
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112848.0.html

How Is Salvation Achieved?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112833.0.html

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles And Some History: Who Was Jesus?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112697.msg1954632#msg1954632

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles: Old Testament Stories
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112679.msg1954426#msg1954426

Human Sacrifice In The Bible: Lev 27: 29 & Judges 11
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112584.msg1953340#msg1953340

Please, Please, Please: Christians - Read Read Read Your Bibles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112578.msg1953311#msg1953311

When Was Jesus Crucified?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112557.msg1952665#msg1952665

On Conversion To A Religion (christianity Or I-slam)
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112547.msg1952353#msg1952353

Faith-healers And Tele-evangelists
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112398.msg1950528#msg1950528

Where Did Sin Originate?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112377.msg1950291#msg1950291

For The Non-beleivers Only, 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112262.msg1948957#msg1948957

Would Christains Be Criminals And Offenders If They Were Not Christians?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112259.msg1948919#msg1948919

On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112240.msg1948631#msg1948631

Has Atheism Got Principle? No
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112216.msg1948180#msg1948180

It Is Biblical To Have Sex (and Lots Of It) Before Marriage
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112139.msg1946940#msg1946940

Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112114.msg1946682#msg1946682

Founding A State or Nation On Religious Principles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112086.msg1946268#msg1946268

Great Books About Non-belief
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111928.msg1943935#msg1943935

Who Are The Self-declared Non-believer? Resources For You
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111806.msg1942137#msg194111quc02137

Beware of a Simplistic Interpretation of Jesus's 2nd Coming Passages
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111677.msg1939992#msg1939992

What Is The Evidence That The Bible Is The Word Of God?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113161.0.html#msg1960928

Archbishop Cause Furore Over Sharia Law In The Uk
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111645.msg1939155#msg1939155

Eminent Christian Scientist (francis Collins) Explains The Evolution Of Humans
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111482.msg1936158#msg1936158

Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111474.msg1936099#msg1936099

Why Biology Is So Important To Our Modern World
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111466.msg1935975#msg1935975

Genesis Vs Genetics
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111227.msg1932655#msg1932655

Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-111474.0.html

Jesus Genealogy
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111222.msg1932616#msg1932616

£300 (three - Hundred Pound Sterling) Essay Competition
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111143.msg1931508#msg1931508

Beware Of Religious Fundamentalism In Your University Campuses
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110965.msg1929160#msg1929160

====================================================================================================

We need education in scientific rationalism to counter the lurch towards superstition. Read this article;
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-110965.0.html#msg1972234

See my article on https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-110965.0.html#msg1972234