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 Christianity Etc › Re: When Was Jesus Born? by therationa(op): 8:15pm On Feb 17, 2008 |
Anybody knows when Jesus was born? |
| Christianity Etc › When Was Jesus Born? by therationa(op): 3:47pm On Feb 17, 2008 |
I have shown in one of my previous threads that we do not know exactly when Jesus is supposed to have been crucified - one gospel says it was the day before passover while another says it was on the day of passover. https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112557.msg1952665#msg1952665. As unlikely as it would have been to hold such a trial and crucifixion on the feast of the passover, not least because there were laws regulating the activities over the passover period, the problem of the day of his crucifixion still remains unresolved. For the record, let it be known that neither the secular nor clerical scholars have been able to explain this anomaly from a historical standpoint. There are no other external sources besides the bible that attest to the crucifixion of a character with any likeness to Jesus. Crucifixion of common criminal were two-a-penny in the first century Judea, so if Jesus had been lumped into the brigand of criminals executed and displayed along the highways, it would have been unlikely to have caused much note to nobody but his closest of companions. In this thread, I want to deal with the events as reported in the gospel, around the birth of Jesus to see the extend to which the corroborate with the historical records of the time. It is only by checking the gospel against external independent source can we gain an appreciation as to its reliability. I am going to be looking at the Nativity narratives as reported in Matthew and Luke. My approach is going to be the following. Firstly, I am going to compare the two narratives for internal consistency of the main events. Secondly, I am going to look at what other external independent source have bearing on the actualities of the period. OK, here we go; Firstly, let us compare the two narratives as given in Matthew 2: 1-8 and Luke 2: 1-8. They are given below; [table] [tr][td]Matthew 2:1-8[/td][td]Luke 2: 1-8[/td][/tr] [tr][td]Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,[/td][td]And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.[/td][/tr] [tr][td]Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.[/td][td]([And] this taxing was first made when Cyrenius[Quirinius] was governor of Syria.)[/td][/tr] [tr][td]When Herod the king had heard [these things], he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.[/td][td]And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.[/td][/tr] [tr][td]And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.[/td][td]And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David  [/td][/tr][tr][td]And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,[/td][td]To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.[/td][/tr] [tr][td]And thou Bethlehem, [in] the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.[/td][td]And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered.[/td][/tr] [tr][td]Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared.[/td][td]And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.[/td][/tr] [tr][td]And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found [him], bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also.[/td][td]And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.[/td][/tr] [/table] Now, that is the biblical account. Jesus was born when Herod The Great was the King of Judea (Matt) and Quirinius was the governor (legate) of Syria, a Roman province in the 1st century. Nice, clean, cut and dry; OK? Let's turn our attentions now to the historical evidence. Herod the Great ( 73 - 4 BCE) was King of the Roman client Kingdom of Judea from 37 - 4 BCE. He died in 4 BCE and was succeeded by his son Archelaus as King (In fact his kingdom was split amongst his sons, but that is not material to the issue). So if the account in Matthew is correct, we would expect Jesus to be born before Herod was dead, that is, before 4BCE. Let's turn to the account in Luke 2. According to Luke, Jesus was born when Quirinius was the legate of Syria, at a period when the Roman Emperor Augustus had ordered a census. As a matter of historical fact, Quirinius did not become legate of Syria until 6 CE. And the first census was held in the year 6 CE, in the reign of Quirinius. This is what the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops have to say about it. Although universal registrations of Roman citizens are attested in 28 B.C., 8 B.C., and A.D. 14 and enrollments in individual provinces of those who are not Roman citizens are also attested, such a universal census of the Roman world under Caesar Augustus is unknown outside the New Testament. Moreover, there are notorious historical problems connected with Luke's dating the census when Quirinius was governor of Syria, and the various attempts to resolve the difficulties have proved unsuccessful. P. Sulpicius Quirinius became legate of the province of Syria in A.D. 6-7 when Judea was annexed to the province of Syria. At that time, a provincial census of Judea was taken up. If Quirinius had been legate of Syria previously, it would have to have been before 10 B.C. because the various legates of Syria from 10 B.C. to 4 B.C. (the death of Herod) are known, and such a dating for an earlier census under Quirinius would create additional problems for dating the beginning of Jesus' ministry (Luke 3:1, 23). A previous legateship after 4 B.C. (and before A.D. 6) would not fit with the dating of Jesus' birth in the days of Herod (Luke 1:5; Matthew 2:1). Luke may simply be combining Jesus' birth in Bethlehem with his vague recollection of a census under Quirinius (see also Acts 5:37) to underline the significance of this birth for the whole Roman world: through this child born in Bethlehem peace and salvation come to the empire. Source: (http://nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/luke/luke2.htm) So as a matter of historical fact, there is CONTRADICTION of at least 10 years in the gospel accounts. Either Jesus was born in Herod reign which would have to have been before 4BCE OR he was born when Quirinius was legate in Syria in 6 CE. It is one OR the other OR neither. In anycase, one of the gospel accouns has got to be wrong. Over the years, various Christian apologists have sought ways of reconciles both accounts with historical evidence. No plausible accounts have been found that harmonise the gospel accounts with the historical facts. These apologetical accounts have ranged from things like; 1) Quirinius may have been legate twice. But there is no historical evidence for this. In fact, all his predecessors and successors are well known, some of whom are Titius, Sentius Saturninus, Quintilius Varus. 2) That Quirinius was a common Roman name. Well that may be so, but only one Quirinius appears in the list of Syria legates 3) That a census could have taken place about 8 BCE. But that too would leave a lot more problems regarding the age at which Jesus started his ministry (22 years) etc etc So I hope I have shown that we cannot trust the gospel for an accurate account of its own theology, nevermind the history of events around the time it was set. This leave us not knowing exactly when this character called Jesus was born. And he was supposed to be a god who has inspired his own very books about his mission on earth. I wonder what sort of addled mind it take to believe in this rubbish? ===================================================================================================== Some of my other threads The Dangers Of Religious Fundamentalism To Intellectualism https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110955.msg1929006#msg1929006 When Was Jesus Born? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113449.0.html On The Prophesy Of The Virgin Birth Of Jesus [/b]13012dg https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113342.0.html#msg1963529 [b] Was Jesus The Prophesied Messiah? Let's Look At The Evidence. https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113303.0.html What Are Your Chances Of Being Saved? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113283.0.html Who Wrote The Gospels And When Were They Written? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113277.0.html#msg1962589 God Selects The Rulers Of Countries; G W Bush, Sadam, Pol Pot, Abacha, Hitler https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113186.0.html#msg1961537 Cannibalism In The Bible: Det 28:53-57, Lev 26:29, Jer 19:9, Ezek 5:10, Lam 4:10 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113181.0.html#msg1961343 What Are The Core Tenets (doctrines, Value And Virtues) Of Christainity? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112990.0.html What Fate For Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Constantine And Tomás De Torquemada? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112997.0.html#msg1958617 Is The Doctrine Of Trinity Biblical? The Johannine Comma https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112865.0.html#msg1957266 On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 2 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112848.0.html How Is Salvation Achieved? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112833.0.html Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles And Some History: Who Was Jesus? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112697.msg1954632#msg1954632 Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles: Old Testament Stories https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112679.msg1954426#msg1954426 Human Sacrifice In The Bible: Lev 27: 29 & Judges 11 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112584.msg1953340#msg1953340 Please, Please, Please: Christians - Read Read Read Your Bibles https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112578.msg1953311#msg1953311 When Was Jesus Crucified? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112557.msg1952665#msg1952665 On Conversion To A Religion (christianity Or I-slam) https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112547.msg1952353#msg1952353 Faith-healers And Tele-evangelists https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112398.msg1950528#msg1950528 Where Did Sin Originate? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112377.msg1950291#msg1950291 For The Non-beleivers Only, 1 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112262.msg1948957#msg1948957 Would Christains Be Criminals And Offenders If They Were Not Christians? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112259.msg1948919#msg1948919 On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 1 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112240.msg1948631#msg1948631 Has Atheism Got Principle? No https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112216.msg1948180#msg1948180 It Is Biblical To Have Sex (and Lots Of It) Before Marriage https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112139.msg1946940#msg1946940 Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112114.msg1946682#msg1946682 Founding A State or Nation On Religious Principles https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112086.msg1946268#msg1946268 Great Books About Non-belief https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111928.msg1943935#msg1943935 Who Are The Self-declared Non-believer? Resources For You https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111806.msg1942137#msg1942137 Beware of a Simplistic Interpretation of Jesus's 2nd Coming Passages https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111677.msg1939992#msg1939992 What Is The Evidence That The Bible Is The Word Of God? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113161.0.html#msg1960928 Archbishop Cause Furore Over Sharia Law In The Uk https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111645.msg1939155#msg1939155 Eminent Christian Scientist (francis Collins) Explains The Evolution Of Humans https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111482.msg1936158#msg1936158 Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111474.msg1936099#msg1936099 Why Biology Is So Important To Our Modern World https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111466.msg1935975#msg1935975 Genesis Vs Genetics https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111227.msg1932655#msg1932655 Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-111474.0.html Jesus Genealogy https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111222.msg1932616#msg1932616 £300 (three - Hundred Pound Sterling) Essay Competition https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111143.msg1931508#msg1931508 Beware Of Religious Fundamentalism In Your University Campuses https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110965.msg1929160#msg1929160 ==================================================================================================== |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Cannibalism In The Bible: Det 28:53-57, Lev 26:29, Jer 19:9, Ezek 5:10, Lam 4:10 by therationa(op): 1:20pm On Feb 17, 2008 |
Horus:Oh, are those the hands of Peter to the left of the picture? Classic scene |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Was Jesus The Prophesied Messiah? Let's Look At The Evidence. by therationa(op): 8:36pm On Feb 16, 2008 |
Stimulus, 4HIM and Imhotep you are welcome NOT to post any replies to my posts. You may post but do NOT expect a direct response from me. You guys are just simply childish and dishonest. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Should I Go Or Should I Stay? by therationa(op): 8:35pm On Feb 16, 2008 |
Stimulus, 4HIM and Imhotep you are welcome NOT to post any replies to my posts. You may post but do NOT expect a direct response from me. You guys are just simply childish and dishonest. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: On The Prophesy Of The Virgin Birth Of Jesus: Part 1 by therationa(op): 8:34pm On Feb 16, 2008 |
Stimulus, 4HIM and Imhotep you are welcome NOT to post any replies to my posts. You may post but do NOT expect a direct response from me. You guys are just simply childish and dishonest. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Should I Go Or Should I Stay? by therationa(op): 8:27pm On Feb 16, 2008 |
[quote author=sista-jay link=topic=113033.msg1963857#msg1963857 date=1203189741]Please stay, you'll be greatly missed if you should go.[/quote]Many thanks Sista |
| Christianity Etc › Re: On The Prophesy Of The Virgin Birth Of Jesus: Part 1 by therationa(op): 8:21pm On Feb 16, 2008 |
I have some more text to the original post. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: On The Prophesy Of The Virgin Birth Of Jesus: Part 1 by therationa(op): 8:01pm On Feb 16, 2008 |
4Him:I am asking questions, you guys respond with insults - a characteristically christian behaviour as I have observed. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is It Biblical For Christian Women To Wear Trousers? by therationa(m): 7:36pm On Feb 16, 2008 |
ABSOLUTELY NOT, Neither should they plait or braid their hair, according to Paul. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Was Jesus The Prophesied Messiah? Let's Look At The Evidence. by therationa(op): 7:33pm On Feb 16, 2008 |
Anyone looked at this one yet? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: On The Prophesy Of The Virgin Birth Of Jesus: Part 1 by therationa(op): 7:28pm On Feb 16, 2008 |
4Him:4HIM, with respect, we are talking about Isaiah 7, not the stuff you just posted. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: On The Prophesy Of The Virgin Birth Of Jesus: Part 1 by therationa(op): 7:10pm On Feb 16, 2008 |
Now, lets look at he text carefully 10 Again the LORD spoke to Ahaz, 11 "Ask the LORD your God for a sign, whether in the deepest depths or in the highest heights." 12 But Ahaz said, "I will not ask; I will not put the LORD to the test." 13 Then Isaiah said, "Hear now, you house of David! Is it not enough to try the patience of men? Will you try the patience of my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. In verses 10, 11 and 12, the LORD is asking Ahaz to ask the LORD for a sign, but Ahaz is reluctant to ask the LORD for a sign, for fear of putting the LORD to the test. In verse 13, Isaiah, steps in and urges Ahaz to ask the LORD for a sign, lest the LORD's patience be tried In verse 14, Isaiah says, "the Lord himself will give you [Ahaz] a sign. And the sign is that "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel." The birth of the virgin was given as a sign to Ahaz, correct? Well, that is what the text says. From this analysis, this sign was meant to happen in the lifetime of Ahaz or his generation, at the very most. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: On The Prophesy Of The Virgin Birth Of Jesus: Part 1 by therationa(op): 6:49pm On Feb 16, 2008 |
stimulus:Well, it seems clear to me that the Isaiah 7 is talking about event within the lifetime of the characters in the narrative? Do you concur with that? |
| Education › Re: Beware Of Religious Fundamentalism In Your University Campuses by therationa(op): 6:44pm On Feb 16, 2008 |
vowiski:thankx |
| Christianity Etc › On The Prophesy Of The Virgin Birth Of Jesus: Part 1 by therationa(op): 6:39pm On Feb 16, 2008 |
The following text is the entire text of Isaiah 7. Please, read it carefully and see if you get the context of the events it describes. Part 2 is on the thread https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113676.0.html. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Isaiah 7. 1 [/b]When Ahaz son of Jotham, the son of Uzziah, was king of Judah, King Rezin of Aram and Pekah son of Remaliah king of Israel marched up to fight against Jerusalem, but they could not overpower it. [b] 2 [/b]Now the house of David was told, "Aram has allied itself with Ephraim"; so the hearts of Ahaz and his people were shaken, as the trees of the forest are shaken by the wind. [b] 3 Then the LORD said to Isaiah, "Go out, you and your son Shear-Jashub, to meet Ahaz at the end of the aqueduct of the Upper Pool, on the road to the Washerman's Field. 4 [/b]Say to him, 'Be careful, keep calm and don't be afraid. Do not lose heart because of these two smoldering stubs of firewood—because of the fierce anger of Rezin and Aram and of the son of Remaliah. [b]5 [/b]Aram, Ephraim and Remaliah's son have plotted your ruin, saying, [b]6 "Let us invade Judah; let us tear it apart and divide it among ourselves, and make the son of Tabeel king over it." 7 [/b]Yet this is what the Sovereign LORD says: " 'It will not take place, it will not happen, [b] 8 [/b]for the head of Aram is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is only Rezin. Within sixty-five years Ephraim will be too shattered to be a people. [b] 9 [/b]The head of Ephraim is Samaria, and the head of Samaria is only Remaliah's son. If you do not stand firm in your faith, you will not stand at all.' " [b]10 [/b]Again the LORD spoke to Ahaz, [b]11 "Ask the LORD your God for a sign, whether in the deepest depths or in the highest heights." 12 But Ahaz said, "I will not ask; I will not put the LORD to the test." 13 Then Isaiah said, "Hear now, you house of David! Is it not enough to try the patience of men? Will you try the patience of my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. 15 He will eat curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right. 16 But before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste. 17 [/b]The LORD will bring on you and on your people and on the house of your father a time unlike any since Ephraim broke away from Judah—he will bring the king of Assyria." [b]18 [/b]In that day the LORD will whistle for flies from the distant streams of Egypt and for bees from the land of Assyria. [b]19 [/b]They will all come and settle in the steep ravines and in the crevices in the rocks, on all the thornbushes and at all the water holes. [b]20 [/b]In that day the Lord will use a razor hired from beyond the River —the king of Assyria—to shave your head and the hair of your legs, and to take off your beards also. [b]21 [/b]In that day, a man will keep alive a young cow and two goats. [b]22 And because of the abundance of the milk they give, he will have curds to eat. All who remain in the land will eat curds and honey. 23 [/b]In that day, in every place where there were a thousand vines worth a thousand silver shekels, there will be only briers and thorns. [b]24 Men will go there with bow and arrow, for the land will be covered with briers and thorns. 25 As for all the hills once cultivated by the hoe, you will no longer go there for fear of the briers and thorns; they will become places where cattle are turned loose and where sheep run. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Is the context set with events in the life-time of the main characters in the narration? OR Is it describing events (prophesying) many centuries hence? Now, let's see if I understand the context and the narrative. Basically, Ahaz, King of Judah, is under siege from an alliance his enemies and his prospects do not look good. The Lord send the prophet Isaiah to cheers him up and re-assure him that with the Lord's help he should not have to worry one bit. Then the Lord asked Ahaz to ask the Lord for a sign, whose occurrence would ensure Ahaz that the Lord was on his side. But Ahaz is reluctant to ask the Lord for a sign. Isaiah urges him to ask the Lord for a sign, but he is still unwilling to put the Lord to the test. Isaiah then says the Lord will give him a sign anyway to show him (Ahaz) that the Lord was with him in his time of trouble. And that the sign was going to the a "virgin shall give birth to a son who will be called Immanuel". With that sign (the birth of Immanuel) Ahaz would know that the Lord was with him and; 7 "It will not take place, it will not happen", That the enemies would not triumph (overpower) of Judah. That is the understanding I get from reading the entire chapter in the context in which it is set. The entire defines its own context. With that in mind, how come verse 14 is generally used by Christians as the prophecy of Jesus's virgin birth some 800 years hence? If you thought that this was really this was bad, well you would be wrong, because it gets worse. There is a mistranslation error in the text which gives it a completely different but significant twist. The errors lies in verse 14; 14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. The original word in the Hebrew text was almah, which means young woman; NOT virgin. The error in translation crept in when the Hebrew text was translated into the Greek bible (Septuagint) and that error has remained in most translations derived from the Greek. In translating for the Septuagint, "almah" was translated as "parthenos" (="virgin"  . This is accepted as a mistranslation by the majority of OT Hebrew scholars.That Christian have build a theology out of this FRAUD is simply pathetic. See below for the responses from some Christians apologetics (viz. Stimulus, 4HIM and Imhotep) for the kind of twisted logic, obfuscation they manifest in defense of the characteristic Christian intellectual dishonestly. Part 2 of this thread contains the source material I have used in composing this thread. I have also invited Christian scholars on this forum to critique my source so that a balanced view of the understanding of this text may be arrived at. So go to Part 2 to examine the scholarly reviews from our Christian friends on the forum. Also see Part 2 here: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113676.0.html ===================================================================================================== Some of my other threads The Dangers Of Religious Fundamentalism To Intellectualism https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110955.msg1929006#msg1929006 Was Jesus The Prophesied Messiah? Let's Look At The Evidence. https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113303.0.html What Are Your Chances Of Being Saved? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113283.0.html Who Wrote The Gospels And When Were They Written? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113277.0.html#msg1962589 God Selects The Rulers Of Countries; G W Bush, Sadam, Pol Pot, Abacha, Hitler https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113186.0.html#msg1961537 Cannibalism In The Bible: Det 28:53-57, Lev 26:29, Jer 19:9, Ezek 5:10, Lam 4:10 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113181.0.html#msg1961343 What Are The Core Tenets (doctrines, Value And Virtues) Of Christainity? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112990.0.html What Fate For Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Constantine And Tomás De Torquemada? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112997.0.html#msg1958617 Is The Doctrine Of Trinity Biblical? The Johannine Comma https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112865.0.html#msg1957266 On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 2 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112848.0.html How Is Salvation Achieved? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112833.0.html Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles And Some History: Who Was Jesus? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112697.msg1954632#msg1954632 Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles: Old Testament Stories https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112679.msg1954426#msg1954426 Human Sacrifice In The Bible: Lev 27: 29 & Judges 11 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112584.msg1953340#msg1953340 Please, Please, Please: Christians - Read Read Read Your Bibles https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112578.msg1953311#msg1953311 When Was Jesus Crucified? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112557.msg1952665#msg1952665 On Conversion To A Religion (christianity Or I-slam) https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112547.msg1952353#msg1952353 Faith-healers And Tele-evangelists https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112398.msg1950528#msg1950528 Where Did Sin Originate? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112377.msg1950291#msg1950291 For The Non-beleivers Only, 1 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112262.msg1948957#msg1948957 Would Christains Be Criminals And Offenders If They Were Not Christians? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112259.msg1948919#msg1948919 On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 1 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112240.msg1948631#msg1948631 Has Atheism Got Principle? No https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112216.msg1948180#msg1948180 It Is Biblical To Have Sex (and Lots Of It) Before Marriage https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112139.msg1946940#msg1946940 Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112114.msg1946682#msg1946682 Founding A State or Nation On Religious Principles https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112086.msg1946268#msg1946268 Great Books About Non-belief https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111928.msg1943935#msg1943935 Who Are The Self-declared Non-believer? Resources For You https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111806.msg1942137#msg1942137 Beware of a Simplistic Interpretation of Jesus's 2nd Coming Passages https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111677.msg1939992#msg1939992 What Is The Evidence That The Bible Is The Word Of God? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113161.0.html#msg1960928 Archbishop Cause Furore Over Sharia Law In The Uk https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111645.msg1939155#msg1939155 Eminent Christian Scientist (francis Collins) Explains The Evolution Of Humans https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111482.msg1936158#msg1936158 Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111474.msg1936099#msg1936099 Why Biology Is So Important To Our Modern World https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111466.msg1935975#msg1935975 Genesis Vs Genetics https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111227.msg1932655#msg1932655 Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-111474.0.html Jesus Genealogy https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111222.msg1932616#msg1932616 £300 (three - Hundred Pound Sterling) Essay Competition https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111143.msg1931508#msg1931508 Beware Of Religious Fundamentalism In Your University Campuses https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110965.msg1929160#msg1929160 ==================================================================================================== |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible by therationa(op): 5:17pm On Feb 16, 2008 |
4Him:Many Many Many Thankx Thankx Thanks. I stand CORRECTED. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible by therationa(op): 4:52pm On Feb 16, 2008 |
4Him:Would be really nice to see evidence for the lifting of the curse . Is this too much to ask? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible by therationa(op): 4:41pm On Feb 16, 2008 |
What is King Jeconiah (Jehoiachim) doing in Matthew's genealogy of Jesus? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Faith-healers And Tele-evangelists by therationa(op): 4:38pm On Feb 16, 2008 |
Any healing experiences to report? |
| Education › Re: Beware Of Religious Fundamentalism In Your University Campuses by therationa(op): 4:06pm On Feb 16, 2008 |
When are you going to stop preaching and start thinking more? |
| Christianity Etc › Was Jesus The Prophesied Messiah? Let's Look At The Evidence. by therationa(op): 3:48pm On Feb 16, 2008 |
It is universally believed amongst Christians that Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament (OT) prophesies of a Messiah, variously prophesied in the OT. Now, let us examine what the OT said about the qualities and attributes of the Messiah and see if these are fulfilled in the person of Jesus. Before we look at the specific evidence, I would like you to bear in mind the question - Was the Messiah prophesied to also be a God? Now, let us look at the evidence of Messiah prophesies in the OT. There may indeed be more (or less; or I may have wrongly attributed these as prophesies of the Messiah. That is up to you to decide); What is the messiah supposed to accomplish? 1) Build or assist in the building of the third Temple. (Ezekiel 37: 26-28, Is 2:2, Zech 14: 16-21) 2) Gather all Jews to the Land of Israel (Is 43:5-6) In addition all Jews will know the Torah without study (Jer 31:33) 3) Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and diseases (Is 2:4, Is 25:8 ) 4) Bring down the tyrants (Is 11:2-4) (Jesus was never even a threat to their power or position) 5) Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one (Zech 14:9, Zeph 3:9) 6) Bring back the hearts of the fathers to the children (Mal 3:24) 7) Take the barren land and make it fruitful (Is 51:3, Amos 9: 13-15, Ez 36:29-30, Is 11:6-9) Above list taken from Truth - Truth Can set You Free, Clarence Williams, Pages 92 - 93. http://www.sometimestruthhurts.com/ Did Jesus fulfilled ALL, SOME or NONE of these prophesies? There are NO prophesies of Jesus's 2nd coming in the OT. The 2nd coming is a NT idea. So were all the OT prophesies about the Messiah fulfilled in the person of Jesus in his 1st coming? Moreover, did any of the OT prophesies claim that the Messiah was going to be GOD ? The Messiah was to come from the House of David through a paternal lineage, as was the custom of heredity in Israel. Was this also fulfilled? If this was fulfilled, what then is the point of a virgin birth? ===================================================================================================== Some of my other threads The Dangers Of Religious Fundamentalism To Intellectualism https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110955.msg1929006#msg1929006 Was Jesus The Prophesied Messiah? Let's Look At The Evidence. https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113303.0.html What Are Your Chances Of Being Saved? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113283.0.html Who Wrote The Gospels And When Were They Written? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113277.0.html#msg1962589 God Selects The Rulers Of Countries; G W Bush, Sadam, Pol Pot, Abacha, Hitler https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113186.0.html#msg1961537 Cannibalism In The Bible: Det 28:53-57, Lev 26:29, Jer 19:9, Ezek 5:10, Lam 4:10 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113181.0.html#msg1961343 What Are The Core Tenets (doctrines, Value And Virtues) Of Christainity? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112990.0.html What Fate For Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Constantine And Tomás De Torquemada? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112997.0.html#msg1958617 Is The Doctrine Of Trinity Biblical? The Johannine Comma https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112865.0.html#msg1957266 On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 2 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112848.0.html How Is Salvation Achieved? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112833.0.html Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles And Some History: Who Was Jesus? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112697.msg1954632#msg1954632 Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles: Old Testament Stories https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112679.msg1954426#msg1954426 Human Sacrifice In The Bible: Lev 27: 29 & Judges 11 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112584.msg1953340#msg1953340 Please, Please, Please: Christians - Read Read Read Your Bibles https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112578.msg1953311#msg1953311 When Was Jesus Crucified? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112557.msg1952665#msg1952665 On Conversion To A Religion (christianity Or I-slam) https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112547.msg1952353#msg1952353 Faith-healers And Tele-evangelists https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112398.msg1950528#msg1950528 Where Did Sin Originate? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112377.msg1950291#msg1950291 For The Non-beleivers Only, 1 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112262.msg1948957#msg1948957 Would Christains Be Criminals And Offenders If They Were Not Christians? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112259.msg1948919#msg1948919 On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 1 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112240.msg1948631#msg1948631 Has Atheism Got Principle? No https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112216.msg1948180#msg1948180 It Is Biblical To Have Sex (and Lots Of It) Before Marriage https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112139.msg1946940#msg1946940 Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112114.msg1946682#msg1946682 Founding A State or Nation On Religious Principles https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112086.msg1946268#msg1946268 Great Books About Non-belief https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111928.msg1943935#msg1943935 Who Are The Self-declared Non-believer? Resources For You https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111806.msg1942137#msg1942137 Beware of a Simplistic Interpretation of Jesus's 2nd Coming Passages https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111677.msg1939992#msg1939992 What Is The Evidence That The Bible Is The Word Of God? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113161.0.html#msg1960928 Archbishop Cause Furore Over Sharia Law In The Uk https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111645.msg1939155#msg1939155 Eminent Christian Scientist (francis Collins) Explains The Evolution Of Humans https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111482.msg1936158#msg1936158 Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111474.msg1936099#msg1936099 Why Biology Is So Important To Our Modern World https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111466.msg1935975#msg1935975 Genesis Vs Genetics https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111227.msg1932655#msg1932655 Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-111474.0.html Jesus Genealogy https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111222.msg1932616#msg1932616 £300 (three - Hundred Pound Sterling) Essay Competition https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111143.msg1931508#msg1931508 Beware Of Religious Fundamentalism In Your University Campuses https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110965.msg1929160#msg1929160 ==================================================================================================== |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible by therationa(op): 3:03pm On Feb 16, 2008 |
I found the answer to my own question, no thanks to you experts of the Bible. The answer is King Jeconiah (Jehoiachim). This king turns up in Matthews genealogy although this king was cursed and exiled and was told that none of his descendants could ever sit on the throne of David (Jeremiah 22: 24-30) 24 "As surely as I live," declares the LORD, "even if you, Jehoiachin [c] son of Jehoiakim king of Judah, were a signet ring on my right hand, I would still pull you off. 25 I will hand you over to those who seek your life, those you fear—to Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon and to the Babylonians. 26 I will hurl you and the mother who gave you birth into another country, where neither of you was born, and there you both will die. 27 You will never come back to the land you long to return to." 28 Is this man Jehoiachin a despised, broken pot, an object no one wants? Why will he and his children be hurled out, cast into a land they do not know? 29 O land, land, land, hear the word of the LORD! 30 This is what the LORD says: "Record this man as if childless, a man who will not prosper in his lifetime, for none of his offspring will prosper, none will sit on the throne of David or rule anymore in Judah." How come does he appear in a listing of Jesus's forefathers? BIZARRE. Did the curse fail to work OR was it repealled? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: What Are Your Chances Of Being Saved? by therationa(op): 2:43pm On Feb 16, 2008 |
jagunlabi:I like this idea of bets; I shall name a few people as see what people think their chances are: Dalai Lama Mother Theresa Prince Charles Hitler Pope John Paul II Maradona Abraham Lincoln Andrew Carnegie Yours Truly (therationa) |
| Christianity Etc › Re: When Was Jesus Crucified? by therationa(op): 2:19pm On Feb 16, 2008 |
[quote author=@tomX link=topic=112557.msg1962709#msg1962709 date=1203165484]The Jewish authorities had tried to arrest Jesus during the day in the past and failed. They were also afraid of being stoned by the public since Jesus was popular among the people. This will easily explain the night time arrest even at the least expected time [desprate time called for desprate measures . . . so to speak]. The sanhedrin ordered the arrest of Christ using the temple guards as instrument. If the same temple guards assault Christ and allow disgruntuled hanger-ons to do the same then the responsibility passes on to the same sanhedrin who ordered the arrest - what didi they do to stop the assault. The sanhedrin may be an honourable council and a formal institution and so is the Nigerian senate (and those of other countries) but we have seen on National TV how these honourables sometimes behave during their formal sessions (slaps, throwing pieces of furniture at one another, fist cuffs, etc). and having considered their own rules it was then not supprising that they desprately tried to correct their error by first sending Christ to Herod (hoping the Patriach would do the hatchet job and save their hands from being smeared), then to Pilate (who had Christ executed not on some "stupid blasphemy Charges against some foriegn Jewish God" but on Charges of sedition against the Roman authority). I fail to see any inconsistency in the Biblical account and the "expected" behaviour of the Sanhedrin given the despration of their situation. Lets not forget that these people had dogged every step of Christ during his ministry looking for ways to trap him.[/quote]When did the crucifixion take place then? It was very unheard of the the Romans to step in and intervene in areas of Jewish jurisdiction. |
| Christianity Etc › What Are Your Chances Of Being Saved? by therationa(op): 1:22pm On Feb 16, 2008 |
This is a serious question - because according to one reading it might actually be very very small indeed. Turn to Revelations 14: 1 Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. 5 No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless. If this is suggesting that only (or as many as) 144000 people will be saved, then your chances of salvation are very very small indeed. Just think of the number of people (only homo sapiens - don't count Neandathals, homo erectuses, homo --- ) who have ever lived. My very rough guess would be about 8 billion. Well do the maths and contemplate your chances of being amongst the saved. Currents populations stand at about 6.5 billions, estimated to double if current trends continue by 2050. So if the Lord has not come by then, your chances would have been slashed by half yet again. OH my goodness. May he come NOW please. ===================================================================================================== Some of my other threads The Dangers Of Religious Fundamentalism To Intellectualism https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110955.msg1929006#msg1929006 What Are Your Chances Of Being Saved? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113283.0.html Who Wrote The Gospels And When Were They Written? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113277.0.html#msg1962589 God Selects The Rulers Of Countries; G W Bush, Sadam, Pol Pot, Abacha, Hitler https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113186.0.html#msg1961537 Cannibalism In The Bible: Det 28:53-57, Lev 26:29, Jer 19:9, Ezek 5:10, Lam 4:10 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113181.0.html#msg1961343 What Are The Core Tenets (doctrines, Value And Virtues) Of Christainity? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112990.0.html What Fate For Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Constantine And Tomás De Torquemada? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112997.0.html#msg1958617 Is The Doctrine Of Trinity Biblical? The Johannine Comma https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112865.0.html#msg1957266 On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 2 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112848.0.html How Is Salvation Achieved? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112833.0.html Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles And Some History: Who Was Jesus? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112697.msg1954632#msg1954632 Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles: Old Testament Stories https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112679.msg1954426#msg1954426 Human Sacrifice In The Bible: Lev 27: 29 & Judges 11 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112584.msg1953340#msg1953340 Please, Please, Please: Christians - Read Read Read Your Bibles https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112578.msg1953311#msg1953311 When Was Jesus Crucified? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112557.msg1952665#msg1952665 On Conversion To A Religion (christianity Or I-slam) https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112547.msg1952353#msg1952353 Faith-healers And Tele-evangelists https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112398.msg1950528#msg1950528 Where Did Sin Originate? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112377.msg1950291#msg1950291 For The Non-beleivers Only, 1 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112262.msg1948957#msg1948957 Would Christains Be Criminals And Offenders If They Were Not Christians? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112259.msg1948919#msg1948919 On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 1 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112240.msg1948631#msg1948631 Has Atheism Got Principle? No https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112216.msg1948180#msg1948180 It Is Biblical To Have Sex (and Lots Of It) Before Marriage https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112139.msg1946940#msg1946940 Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112114.msg1946682#msg1946682 Founding A State or Nation On Religious Principles https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112086.msg1946268#msg1946268 Great Books About Non-belief https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111928.msg1943935#msg1943935 Who Are The Self-declared Non-believer? Resources For You https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111806.msg1942137#msg1942137 Beware of a Simplistic Interpretation of Jesus's 2nd Coming Passages https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111677.msg1939992#msg1939992 What Is The Evidence That The Bible Is The Word Of God? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113161.0.html#msg1960928 Archbishop Cause Furore Over Sharia Law In The Uk https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111645.msg1939155#msg1939155 Eminent Christian Scientist (francis Collins) Explains The Evolution Of Humans https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111482.msg1936158#msg1936158 Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111474.msg1936099#msg1936099 Why Biology Is So Important To Our Modern World https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111466.msg1935975#msg1935975 Genesis Vs Genetics https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111227.msg1932655#msg1932655 Jesus Genealogy https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111222.msg1932616#msg1932616 £300 (three - Hundred Pound Sterling) Essay Competition https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111143.msg1931508#msg1931508 Beware Of Religious Fundamentalism In Your University Campuses https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110965.msg1929160#msg1929160 ==================================================================================================== |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Wrote The Gospels And When Were They Written? by therationa(op): 1:10pm On Feb 16, 2008 |
Thanks for leading. BTW, you are NOT obligated to respond, you know . Just leave them alone for other people to learn from |
| Christianity Etc › Who Wrote The Gospels And When Were They Written? by therationa(op): 12:57pm On Feb 16, 2008 |
All standard bibles contain the NT gospels in the order Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, with these names being ascribed to Jesus's own companions (disciples). But were the real companions of Jesus the real authors of the gospels? And when were they written? And have they essentially maintained their form and message, unadulterated through the centuries, through the various translations and redactions? Is there evidence within the texts (the so-called internal evidence) themselves that could lead us to these answers. Are there any independent non-christian documents that corroborate the events in the gospels? ===================================================================================================== Some of my other threads The Dangers Of Religious Fundamentalism To Intellectualism https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110955.msg1929006#msg1929006 God Selects The Rulers Of Countries; G W Bush, Sadam, Pol Pot, Abacha, Hitler https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113186.0.html#msg1961537 Cannibalism In The Bible: Det 28:53-57, Lev 26:29, Jer 19:9, Ezek 5:10, Lam 4:10 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113181.0.html#msg1961343 What Are The Core Tenets (doctrines, Value And Virtues) Of Christainity? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112990.0.html What Fate For Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Constantine And Tomás De Torquemada? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112997.0.html#msg1958617 Is The Doctrine Of Trinity Biblical? The Johannine Comma https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112865.0.html#msg1957266 On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 2 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112848.0.html How Is Salvation Achieved? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112833.0.html Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles And Some History: Who Was Jesus? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112697.msg1954632#msg1954632 Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles: Old Testament Stories https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112679.msg1954426#msg1954426 Human Sacrifice In The Bible: Lev 27: 29 & Judges 11 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112584.msg1953340#msg1953340 Please, Please, Please: Christians - Read Read Read Your Bibles https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112578.msg1953311#msg1953311 When Was Jesus Crucified? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112557.msg1952665#msg1952665 On Conversion To A Religion (christianity Or I-slam) https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112547.msg1952353#msg1952353 Faith-healers And Tele-evangelists https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112398.msg1950528#msg1950528 Where Did Sin Originate? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112377.msg1950291#msg1950291 For The Non-beleivers Only, 1 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112262.msg1948957#msg1948957 Would Christains Be Criminals And Offenders If They Were Not Christians? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112259.msg1948919#msg1948919 On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 1 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112240.msg1948631#msg1948631 Has Atheism Got Principle? No https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112216.msg1948180#msg1948180 It Is Biblical To Have Sex (and Lots Of It) Before Marriage https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112139.msg1946940#msg1946940 Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112114.msg1946682#msg1946682 Founding A State or Nation On Religious Principles https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112086.msg1946268#msg1946268 Great Books About Non-belief https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111928.msg1943935#msg1943935 Who Are The Self-declared Non-believer? Resources For You https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111806.msg1942137#msg1942137 Beware of a Simplistic Interpretation of Jesus's 2nd Coming Passages https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111677.msg1939992#msg1939992 What Is The Evidence That The Bible Is The Word Of God? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113161.0.html#msg1960928 Archbishop Cause Furore Over Sharia Law In The Uk https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111645.msg1939155#msg1939155 Eminent Christian Scientist (francis Collins) Explains The Evolution Of Humans https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111482.msg1936158#msg1936158 Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111474.msg1936099#msg1936099 Why Biology Is So Important To Our Modern World https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111466.msg1935975#msg1935975 Genesis Vs Genetics https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111227.msg1932655#msg1932655 Jesus Genealogy https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111222.msg1932616#msg1932616 £300 (three - Hundred Pound Sterling) Essay Competition https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111143.msg1931508#msg1931508 Beware Of Religious Fundamentalism In Your University Campuses https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110965.msg1929160#msg1929160 ==================================================================================================== 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Why Do Some Mu-slims Want To Murder Her? Ayaan Hirsi Ali Asks For Protection by therationa(op): 12:30pm On Feb 16, 2008 |
Why do some mu-slims (apparently, people who follow a great god) want to murder Ayaan Hirsi Ali? What sort of worldview is this that sanctions murder on ideological differences? Article in http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7245729.stm. For reactions, read http://richarddawkins.net/article,2269,Ayaan-Hirsi-Ali-asks-for-protection,BBC. |
| Christianity Etc › Biblical Archaeology: Unearthing The Evidence by therationa(op): 11:03am On Feb 16, 2008 |
Is anyone aware of any recent or old archaeological finds in the Middle/Near East corroborating (or not) the events narrated in the Holy Books? There have been finds such as [b]The Dead Sea Scrolls, The Nag Hammadi Library, The Gospel of Judas [/b]etc, etc. Does anyone have a good idea what these are about? |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: God Selects The Rulers Of Countries; G W Bush, Sadam, Pol Pot, Abacha, Hitler by therationa(op): 10:48am On Feb 16, 2008 |
TCUBE:It is all out there, libraries, bookshops etc. And learning who to think freely, without being encumbered by superstitious beliefs. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Fulfilment/non-fulfilment Of Prophesies. by therationa(op): 10:45am On Feb 16, 2008 |
Any prophesies fulfilled today? |
If there's any reason why you would suppose that it could not have been pointing to events at a later period after Isaiah's day, please let's read it and then we shall oblige you a spirited discussion thereto.