₦airaland Forum

'The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.'
- Mark Twain

VisioDirect:
SUNDAY SERMON: THE TRUTH ABOUT TITHING


I came across this piece on a Whatsapp page and it so represented my views on tithing that I could have written it myself. Please enjoy the read!

The Trial of Pastor Jones (Author unknown)

Judge: Mr. Jones you have been charged with multiple counts of extortion. Your crime spree covers 20 years and thousands of victims. You have defrauded people out of their money with fear and manipulation, telling them they had to tithe 10% of their income as per the LAW to your Regd. organization (called Church) and that God would bless them if they did. You also told them that if they didn't tithe God would curse them.

How do you plead?

Mr. Jones: I plead not guilty your Honor, I have done nothing wrong. I have only preached what the Bible says. In the Bible Abraham tithed to Melchizedek and God blessed him for his faithful giving. The Bible even says he was rich in silver and gold.

Judge: Is it not true, Mr. Jones, that in Genesis Chapter 13 verse 2 the Bible says Abraham was rich with livestock, silver and gold?

Mr. Jones: Yes, you are exactly right, that's what I just told you.

Judge: Ok, we read about Abraham being a rich man in chapter 13 but it is not until Genesis chapter 14 that we read about Abraham's tithe to Melchizedek. So Abraham was already a rich man before he tithed to Melchizedek, wasn't he?

Mr. Jones: Yes, I suppose you are right.

Judge: So his riches were not the result of his tithe to Melchizedek?

Mr. Jones: No.

Judge: Mr. Jones, you also say God blessed him for his faithful giving. How many times is it recorded that Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek?

Mr. Jones: Well, just once.

Judge: So the Bible never said that he gave week after week?

Mr. Jones: No it does not.

Judge: Where did Abraham get the things that he gave to Melchizedek?

Mr. Jones: Well the Bible says it was from the plunders of war?

Judge: So you are telling me that he gave from the plunders of war?

Mr. Jones: Yes that's what the Bible says.

Judge: So he basically took things that were not really his in the first place and gave them as the tithe?

Mr. Jones: That is what the scripture seems to indicate.

Judge: Is it recorded that he ever took anything from his own possessions and tithed them to Melchizedek or anyone else?

Mr. Jones: I guess not

Judge: You guess not, you are a teacher and you are only guessing, is it or is it not written that he ever gave any of his own possessions as a tithe to anyone?

Mr. Jones: No it is not written anywhere that I have seen.

Judge: Is it recorded as to what exactly Abraham did give Melchizedek?

Mr. Jones: I believe it says plunder?

Judge: So plunder could be any number of things?

Mr. Jones: Yes, I suppose

Judge: It could have been food, cattle, sheep, the people's possessions or any number of things. It does not say it was all money correct?

Mr. Jones: Yes you are correct, it does not say just money

Judge: As a matter of fact money is never mentioned in that account at all is that correct Mr. Jones?

Mr. Jones: Yes your Honor, money is never mentioned just goods and food and people.

Judge: So there is no way you can say with any certainty that Abraham in fact gave Melchizedek any money at all?

Mr. Jones: That is right.

Judge: I only have one last question for you
Mr. Jones, did God command Abraham to give this plunder tithe to Melchizedek?

Mr. Jones: No, it appears that he did this voluntarily.

Judge: So are you trying to tell me that because of this voluntary, one time gift by Abraham, that may not have even consisted of money, all Christians everywhere are obligated to bring 10% of their weekly paycheck to a local Regd.Organization-church?
Considering all the evidence I would say you are beyond any shadow of a doubt guilty of deliberately trying to make the scriptures says things they have not said for financial gain.

Mr. Jones: Ok your Honor, I can see how foolish I was to try and use the story of Melchizedeck to try and get the people to tithe money. But there are many other verses that will support my belief on tithing. Jacob said he would give God 10% of everything. I think we should follow his example.

Judge: Let's see what Jacob said. Please read the verse you are talking about for me Mr. Jones.

Mr. Jones: In Genesis chapter 28 starting at verse 20 it says. Jacob vowed a vow, saying, "If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and clothing to put on, so that I come again to my father's house in peace, and Yahweh will be my God, then this stone, which I have set up for a pillar, will be God's house. Of all that you will give me I will surely give the tenth to you."

Judge: You said we should follow Jacobs example, is that right Mr. Jones?

Mr. Jones: Yes that is right, he vowed to give a tenth and we should too.

Judge: Let me point out one thing for you Mr. Jones, Jacob said he would Give God a tenth, ONLY if He blessed him first. So as you said previously, we should follow Jacob's example and tell God that we will only give him a tenth if he blesses us first. Is that right?

Mr. Jones: That is not what I meant.

Judge: What did you mean then?

Mr. Jones: That we should give God a tenth also.

Judge: There you go again, trying to make the scripture say what you want it to say for your benefit. I would also like you to tell me the scriptures that say that Jacob kept his vow with God. I would also like to know where he gave the tenth to because there was no temple or levites to give it to at that time.

Mr. Jones: I can not think of any scriptures that say where or if he ever tithed after his vow.

Judge: It seems fairly obvious to me that Jacob made a voluntary and conditional vow to God. This in no way can be used as a reason to demand others to bring their income to you or any other place.

Mr. Jones: I do have a few more scriptures that I believe will show that we are supposed to tithe.

Judge: You have not said anything yet to convince me one little bit that people are obligated to tithe money to the local organizational institutions -churches and that you were justified in what you were doing. You have taken scripture and misapplied it to your beliefs and for your gain. But in order to be fair to you I will allow you to present more evidence.

Mr. Jones: In the book of Malachi chapter 3 starting at verse 8 it says, will a man rob God? yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, In what have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the store-house, that there may be food in my house, and prove me now with this, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. So you see your Honor, we are commanded to bring the tithes into the storehouse or God will curse us.

Judge: Answer me this Mr Jones, Who was God Speaking to here?

Mr Jones: To the People of Israel

Judge: Can you please read Malachi 2: 1 Please Mr Jones

Mr Jones: Now This command is for you O PRIEST !!

Judge: Did God stop talking to the Priest in Chap. 3, Mr Jones?

Mr Jones: No your Honor!

Judge: Answer me this Mr. Jones, were you aware that God never required anyone to tithe money?

Mr. Jones: No I didn't know that.

Judge: The tithe spoken of here was always edible products never money.

Mr. Jones: Well your Honor that is because they didn't have money at the time so God had them tithe food instead.

Judge: Not true, money is first mentioned in Genesis and Malachi was written hundreds of years later. God had them bring food in so that the levites, the fatherless and widows may eat and be satisfied. The tithe was used mainly to take care of people. Also notice it says in the verse you quoted, that there may be food in my house. The food was the tithe. How do you completely overlook the word food in those verses?

Mr. Jones: I don't know

Judge: I also want you to know that these verses speak to nation under the Old Testament law. As you may or may not know Jesus fulfilled the law, it is no longer binding. Once again you have tried to completely take a scripture out of context and apply it to others for your benefit. Can you give me a single scripture where God changed the tithe from food to money?

Mr. Jones: I do not know of any.

Judge: So if God never changed it from food to money who did?

Mr. Jones: Man must have.

Judge: So far all you have done Mr. Jones, is take Old Testament scriptures out of context and try to apply it to believers under the New Covenant. Is this all the proof you have?

Mr. Jones: I do have a New Testament scripture that will show that Jesus told us to tithe.

Judge: Ok let me hear it.

Mr. Jones: Jesus said in Matthew 23:23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cumin, and have left undone the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith. But you ought to have done these, and not to have left the other undone. See Jesus said we should be tithing.

Judge: Let me ask you a question, who was Jesus talking to?

Mr. Jones: The scripture says the Scribes and Pharisees.

Judge: Are you a scribe or Pharisee?

Mr. Jones: Of course not.

Judge: Jesus also said in that passage, you have left undone the weightier matters of the law. Are we under the law Mr. Jones?

Mr. Jones: No.

Judge: Why not?

Mr. Jones: Because Jesus fulfilled it.

Judge: When did Jesus fulfill the law?

Mr. Jones: When He was crucified.

Judge: So the law was still in effect until Jesus death?

Mr. Jones: That is correct.

Judge: I think you know where I am going with this don't you?

Mr. Jones: Yes your Honor. Since Jesus had not yet been crucified and the law was still binding the Pharisees were required to tithe because it was part of the law. Once the law ended, tithing ended also.

Judge: I want you to take a look at that verse again. Also tell me, what were they tithing?

Mr. Jones: The scripture says it was mint, dill and cumin.

Judge: Is money mentioned?

Mr. Jones: No it was not.

Judge: Once again it was edible products that they were tithing, not money. Do you have anything else you would like to say?

Mr. Jones: If people only tithed edible products like the scripture says, then how would the church survive? We have our mortgage payment, utility bills, staff salary and a host of other things that we have to pay each week. We depend on the money from the people.

Judge: By "church" you mean your organization isn't it Mr Jones ?
-The need does not justify the means. In other words, just because you have all these debts does not give you the right to twist and manipulate scripture and cause people to give under fear of being cursed by God to meet your needs. Does It Mr Jones?
In closing, let me recap a few things for you Mr. Jones.
-The tithe was never money;
-The tithe was an Old Testament law, which is no longer binding. When it was binding the tithe was used to take care of people, not buildings.
- We are under a new covenant now.
Paul instructs the Corinthian believers how they are to give. He says in second Corinthians chapter 9 verse 7, Let each man give according as he has determined in his heart; not grudgingly, or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver. So each believer is supposed to give as he or she has determined in his or her heart.
If they determine to Give 10% well and good, If they keep aside some every week to meet this more better.If you are trying to make people give under the threat of being cursed or any other reason even blessing, you are wrong. Someone can not give cheerfully if they are being forced to give. If 'your church can not survive on freewill offerings maybe God is not part of your church at all.
Mr Jones, do you intentionally put your people under a Curse or a Bondage?

Mr Jones: Of Course not !!

Judge: Can you Read in context Gal 3:10-11: For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them ....
AND
Gal 5:1-4 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage....

Mr. Jones: I never realized all these things, I have always been taught that we had to tithe money to the local church and that is what I have always taught. I can see now that I was completely wrong. I did not study the scripture for myself, I only took mans word for it.
Yes ' am guilty. I will not teach this error anymore.
Sentencing....... All Arise .....

Wiseandtrue:
Because he is from the North Can or has NNPC being doing the same for other students from other universities any where in Nigeria

I hope you know that NNPC belong to ALL Nigerians before you encourage other secessionist with your action

congrats boy!

PVision2020:
Igbo's always expect others to clean their mess.
Awo advocated for the Inclusion of the secession clause in the Nigeria constitution but Ziks NCNC colluded with the North to resist it and they even made it a treasonable offence. Few years later, over 3million Igbo's were sacrificed due to ZIKs foolish and myopic decision.

Agunyi Ironsi abolished regionalism for a unitary govt. to the applause of his Kinsmen in his bid for Igbo domination. Today, this same people are shouting Biafla or death, Lefelendoom, Restructuring blah blah blah.
You can't eat your cake and have it.

donguutti:
You made the bolded comment and no where was this stated,you made a sentimental bigoted comment which is a reflection of upbringing,

I have nothing against his reinstatement ,just against brainless tribalism.




God of heaven ,you mean you have not googled the details of the case,nd cannot see that posted in page 2 ......you are dumb as a plank....no offence to planks.

donguutti:
Were you blind to the same news report saying the DCP was acquitted in court? He then challenged his initial dismissal by the police having been found not guilty, and won as was expected in every sane society.












You should refund your school fees to your parents and apologize to all your teachers,how does Igbo officers being majority of those reinstated translate to Igbo officers being majority of those involved in the said case.


Even SR made the issue clear and someone has posted the details of the apo six case yet you choose ignorance ,or just lack the brain required for comprehension.

On assumption of power, General Aguiyi-Ironsi promulgated the Constitution (Suspension and Modification) Decree 1966. Decree No 1 dated January 17, 1966 but not published in the Official Gazette until March 4, 1966. He then issued Public Order Decree No 33 dated May 24 1966 which dissolved eighty-one political associations and twenty-six tribal and cultural associations.

At the early stage of his tenure, he appointed a three-man advisory team made up of Chief Francis Nwokedi, a Permanent Secretary, Dr. Pius Charles Nwabafor Okigbo (1924-2000) and Colonel Patrick Anwunah, who later became Chairman and Head of the Orientation Committee at that time.

He replaced the then Attorney-General and Minister of Justice, Dr. Taslim Olawale Elias (1914-1991) with Chief Gabriel Chike Michael Onyiuke (SAN), former Director, Public Prosecution, Eastern Nigeria (1960-1965) from Nimo in the present Anambra state.

legitnow:
SOUTH EAST GOVS AND OHANAEZE OVER TO U.


HOW MANY TIMES BEFORE U PEOPLE WILL COME TO UR EVENTUAL SENSES?


HOW MANY PEOPLE DID NNAMDI KANU KILL BEFORE THEY WENT TO HIS FATHER HOUSE TO COMMIT MASS MURDER?


MUST WE CONTINUE TO ENDURE WEN WE CAN THRIVE ON OUR OWN, IN OUR OWN LAND?

The trial dragged for over a decade until two of the officers were sentenced to death in March 2017, curiously, Danjuma was freed by the judge who sat on the case.

cococandy:
And people wonder why Igbo people agitate for segregation

SalamRushdie:
This will not be allowed I swear .. What is Buhari turning thos country to ? After all the gory details of that case which was clearly one of pre meditated murder spurn by the ego of this very useless police officer.. every well meaning Nigerian must take to social media and protest this nonsense , Nigeria cannot be a home to injustice like Buhari want NEVER !!!!!

edupedia:
...did u notice there were 4 other police officers of Igbo extraction accused as part of those who killed the traders?...now the IPOBs here are focusing on Danjuma and leaving out the following police officers....Bethram C Onuoha, Okwuonu Allwell, Nonyerem Ejike Akubuike, Onuorah Emmanuel....keep deceiving yourselves...

legitnow:

DAFT!


THE COURT CASE CONFIRMED HE GAVE THE ORDERS TO THE POLICE MEN TO OPEN FIRE ON THEIR VICTIMS.

THEY DID NOT JAIL HIM DUE TO CONNECTIONS BUT RATHER BLAMED THE POLICE MEN THAT OBEYED THE ORDERS FOR FOLLOWING ORDERS OF THEIR SUPERIOR.

ewebiodun:
Please can u expantiate on this. The only part I understand is that he successfully contested his dismissal.
1. What judicial remedy did he seek
2. What court sanctioned this
3. Is the original case of the Apo 6 already concluded
Pls if u can help with these. I am not the type that gets sentimental over issues I have no knowledge

GavelSlam:
But Jonathan never sacked her.

At least so he told us at the time.

“Clearly, what the President did today (yesterday) was to allow ministers who have indicated interest in pursuing further goals in the polity, in the economy and in the life of the country to be allowed to go.
...Labaran Maku.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanguardngr.com/2014/02/jonathan-sacks-stella-oduah/amp/

FarahAideed:
But today Buhari covers his own criminals instead of sacking them . SmH