TV01:

Hi TG,

So within the context of your long-term, committed, monogamous, heterosexual etc. etc. relationship, the One' example as outlined swings? When it is patently clear that going by this example, one can assign an arbitary (and of course changing) level of sexual compatability requirement.

This as you can plainly see is a serial phillanderers charter. Presumably your approval means you believe no sin was committed here?

Trini, you are muddled on this one. I'm even more bemused as women are obviously more vulnerable and at greater risk?

God bless

TV,

From where in One's articulate opinion did you erroneously devise that he was on his way to becoming a philanderer? Sometimes I wonder about you.  You go through rejoinders with a fine tooth comb and draw conclusions out of thin air!

If you want to talk of sin, which is the bigger sin.  Marrying the frigid girl and eventually committing adultery and/or getting divorced, or finding out before hand and making a decision to break it off.

The guy even said he was planning to marry her now. Ah ah! He did not say he was sampling.

Women are at greater risk of what.  Each person is responsible for their on life and the choices they make. Both men and women can be at risk of a number of things in any relationship.

God Bless

TV01:

How's about a mention for your favourite MOG !

Oh yes! Thank you for reminding me!

And my favourite earthly MOG, TayoD! 

So TV your problem is the moving of the hips, is that it? I'm not getting you on this one.

Are you saying that praising God by dancing promotes lust in the church?

My Pastor's name is Jesus Christ, the Good Shepherd.

TV01:

I have been following the various threads on music and may I say/ask the following;

Music is apprehended by the senses and appreciated physically (by the body(. Music is first and foremost a sensual experience. I think any discussion of music should not overlook this fact.

Am I saying that God cannot be worshipped by music? No, indeed, the Bible instructs us to make melody in our hearts to God.

Many feel that a distinction can be made between the beats and the lyrics (music & song), and whilst this is obviously true in a technical sense, from a spiritual perspective, I believe there can be blurring between the two, with the distinction being harder to make, if at all.

Many argue that as long as the lyrics are glorifying God then it’s ok. Is it? In many occult rituals, rhythmic beats are used to cross the physical/spiritual divide and summon spirits. Would one suggest that these same beats/rythms/melodies are God glorifying if attenuated with wholesome Christian lyrics. Can one drink the cup of God and of idols?

Further, as spiritual as we sometimes like to think we are with phrases like “that song/music really moved me in my spirit”, if one is honest, who can deny that the experience be it sensual or spiritual is very much alike as it must of a necessity involve the physical even if it then transcends to the spiritual. I hope I am making myself clear here? Would anyone deny that what is in essence a “bootylicious vibe” or a “get jiggy thang“ could be mistaken for a spiritual high?

For a long time, I couldn’t understand that why despite my conversion and renouncing R&B, Gangsta Rap and other secular music, whenever I heard such music (especially pre-conversion favourites), I’d feel a stirring. It finally dawned on me that it’s a carnal response, and that while I am still in the flesh, it will be an ever present danger, even if dormant. As soon as one gives leave to the flesh, it creeps. It’s that spirit vs. flesh battle, so one must beware of feeding the flesh. Could that be why we often find that Choirs are beset with all sorts of carnal issues? Just a question 0 Bro’/Sis’ head of worship ministry !

So maybe sometimes there is no real difference?

Personally I find worship in song rings more true when I’m alone and singing acapella.

I'm glad that you clarified that this is your personal preference  since I strongly disagree with you.

Music is the strongest tool that the enemy has masterfully manipulated for his use.  Music was meant to be spiritual and the instruments made to worship God. This was so even in heaven as you well know.  Lucifer, now Satan as chief musician understood this power and even today has changed it from spiritual to carnal.

Secular music appeals to the soul/senses, to that much I agree.  But everything belongs to God. Rhythm belongs to God, beats belong to God, and to insinuate that they are carnal only merits question.

I have heard worship songs to Jesus Christ in Hindi, in Arabic, in Chinese, in Jewish.  I have heard praises to God in Calypso, Hip Life etc.  

Praise and high praise can certainly be up tempo however worship must always be intimate and slower paced.  However people get caught up in the praise.  But I see no problem with dancing before the Lord either.

For the indiviudal who worships God in spirit and in truth, he/she can discern the spirit behind the music.

Of course he's joking?

Right TayoD?

I don't have the time to deal with all the error in this rejoinder, however I'll correct you on a few things.

Jen33:

Don’t associate with non-Christians.  Don’t receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them.  2 John 1:10

2 John 1:10

If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him

Contextually this was a warning to stay away from those who denied that Christ came in the flesh and were spreading this false doctrine at that time.  It does not mean that christians should not associate with non christians.  Christ admonished us to be in the world but not of it.

Jen33:

Shun those who disagree with your religious views.  Romans 16:17

Romans 16:17 says I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.

Again Jen, you need to understand the context and not generalize. Is what Paul admonishing them to do wrong? If my purpose in life was to make you miserable and deride everything you stand for and believe in spiritually, would you want to be around me?

I think you're deliberately manipulating these versus to support you peurile arguments against Christ.

Be careful.

Jen33:

I'll leave u to judge what a 'correct attitude' is or is not.

Suffice it to say that truth (and falsehood by the way) CAN come as a softly whispered entreaty AND as a bellowed declaration from a rooftop - Either way it still remains what it is..

Afterall, your saviour was known to lose his temper by pulling out the whip in the temple and driving out the rabble in a fit of indignation, so who r u to talk? His 'attitude' there sure as hell stank.

Kindest Regards

I agree. But OUR Saviour always spoke the[b] truth[/b] in LOVE and never insulted anyone (as we all have the tendency to do)

Jen33:

Trini girl said:

It is not 'hate' to say the truth, ie that your holy book is a disastrous misrepresentaion of the Godhead and the purpose of existence.

And like everyone else, I wouldn't be here if I was perfect. I'd be seated metaphorically at the right hand of the Almighty.

We are all here to make mistakes and learn, as well as teach, and return home the wiser.

Is that reciprocal or have you appointed yourself the guiding light for the path out of religious ignorance into cosmic euphoria?

Try another one. We both know that truth can be a weapon used to antagonize and condescend, or to enlighten and enrich, it's all in the delivery and the motive.

If you have a better way, then you should have a better attitude.

I agree with David. Pointless discussion.

One:

I am of the opinion that before 2 people get married, they should at least have a relationship for some time. During this period, they can discover a lot about themselves including if they can actally live together as man and wife. One critical issue is sexual satisfaction. Much as we like to avoid this area, it nevertheles, is one of the bedrocks of any relationship. Sex is exteremly important and if you get stuck with a partner who cannot satify you, its only a matter of time before the cracks will start showing. I once had this girlfriend who "did not feel a thing" during sex. I actually was planning to marry her until I found she was "frigid". No matter what I did, she just did not feel a thing and would jut lay there like a log of wood. I was always very frustrated. In the end we parted ways. I mean why would I be with a woman who cannot satify me. I don't want to play outside once I settle down.

Very well said One.

Jen don't u ever tire. If what you're saying is true it would seem that you're no better than the thing you despise since you lack one of the basic elements of any true spiritualism; love and tolerance. Your hate has consumed you.

Covering of the head (hats, scarves, doilies etc) is NOT mandatory in today's church

Ugwumba:

Maybe some answers from this radio link (please listen to all of it). If you 'don't use the mouth', and are always giving excuses, your man might stray to a 'nikki'.

Lmao! lol!hahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I haven't laughed this hard in months!!!

Use the mouth!! lol!

Wow, thank u so much for this, it's just too funny.

Most times the reason a married man has an affair has nothing to do with sex initially.  There are varying cirumstances that may exist in his marriage:-

1.  Lack of communication
2.  Inability to resolve recurrent issues with his wife
3.  The husband has chosen to develop himself, whether it be spiritually, academically etc,
but the woman is just content  being "wifey", and her entire identity is wrapped up in him and the marriage

3.5 He feels trapped, frustrated and bored with her.
4.  Lack of romance
5.  Somehow, someone's needs are not being met
6.  Frustration with his life, be it financial or physical
7.  Nagging, clingy, overbearing wife
8.  The wife's unwillingness to change
9.  The wife lets herself go physically and thinks she's won the prize so she can relax
10.  Differences in spiritual convictions

There are men who simply marry to have a wife at home to cook and bear his children while they continue to chase skirts.  But the "good" man can also have affairs when they meet a woman who:-

1.  Reminds them of what they love in a woman
2.  They can talk to and confide in and the woman just seems to "get them" sincerely ie a friend
3.  Gives him his space
4.  Does not pressure him to change

Over time this friendship becomes dangerous and the man becomes emotionally attracted to her, then the physical aspect follows.

Women have this delusion that they can change a man when they cannot.

All marriages have problems, but the key is communication, mutual respect, compromise and understanding to make it work.

It helps to understand that even after marriage you are both still individuals and a woman should never lose her identity because she has become "Mrs." Ball and Chain.  Good men admire and respect intelligent women who can hold their own and are not intimdated by a strong woman of God who understands and accepts her role as wife, but also her appreciates her value as woman.

davidylan:

A few things to ponder:

What makes a woman stay in touch with her sexuality? Having pre-marital sexual experience? There are tons of prostitutes who will make excellent sexual partners. I'm not sure i want them as wives.

If a woman chooses to have sex before she gets married, then she at least should have an idea of what sex is about. Nobody's t talking about prositutes.

We are saying the same thing.  However, a woman who doesn't know what sex feels like at all can hardly determine her likes and dislikes or how to please her husband until he teaches her, which is what men love, to be considered sexual gods to their partner. 

davidylan:

Since when did it become imperative for women to begin their "sexual development" outside marriage and with several men she is not likely to marry? Is there any proof that virgins have a stunted sexual development in marriage?

Please quote where I said anything was "imperative" or is that how you interpret the word "choice"?

davidylan:

Very right. Whether a woman will end up a prude in bed does not depend on how much sexual experience she accumulates before marriage.

Thank you.

davidylan:

Since when did it become a hard and fast rule for everone that a woman "in touch with her sexuality" makes a better partner? What happened to your "sex does not make a woman"?

Let me clarify. A woman who is in touch with her sexuality makes a better sexual partner, not a better wife.

davidylan:

What defines a woman "in touch with her sexuality"? Is a virgin out of touch with her sexuality simply because she chooses to remain so?

Obviously! And while is her choice to do so, her sexual development after marriage will greatly depend on her spiritual beliefs and what she believes her "wifely" duties should be.

davidylan:


As far as we know, there are no statistics that prove women who indulge in pre-marital sex in "loving" relationships are much better partners sexually.

Since we are speculating here, as far as I know, women who are prude in bed whether before or after marriage, have a higher tendency to push their husband to having affairs with other women and if not, puts a strain on their relationship on the whole.

Again, it's personal choice. I never said I condone promiscuity. I just defined fornication the way the Bible showed it in scripture.

TayoD:

@trini_girl,

I will take this a little further. Sex isn't worth it if done outside the confines of marriage. Hebrews 13:4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

and where does the Bible say sex outside of marriage is dishonourable, that is, premarital sex as I outlined it on this thread.  We already established that fornication is sex with prostitutes and other types of illicit sex.
Also enlighten me on what an "undefiled" marriage bed might be.