babyosisi:

Cocaine and Heroine all have medicinal uses too,don't they?
Infact cocaine was used for decades as dental anesthesia and the coca leaves are used by herbalists.

Just because weed is a plant does not make it a vegetable people!

Not was my dear, not was, IS.  (see Cocaine or Lidocaine) How hard is it to do some research or read a book! All herbs come from God.  It not the use of it that's bad, it's the ABUSE of it that causes problems.   Cannabis is not a plant, it's a HERB. And I dont see anyone here saying that it should be used as one of the food groups.

Get a clue.

babyosisi:

I have been shocked in nairaland several times.
The same lady who quotes scriptures and is a Christian first of all sees nothing with sleeping with a man she's not married to,now she tells us weed is good for her medicinally.
God have mercy!!.

MY dear pray that the sickness that only weed can "cure" shall not come to your doorsteps.
Our bodies are the temple of the Holy Ghost and we shall give account what we did with it.
@ the poster if indeed you are living for Christ,the Holy Spirit in you will tell you that such things are un becoming,bad habits are hard to break but not impossible to those that believe but as long as you justify it,God can't force his will on you.

How long have you been keeping that one on your chest?

Have mercy on you! Because if you do a simple thing like Google the medicinal properties of marijuana and get off the moral high horse you'll see what I'm saying is fact.

You would also have seen that the use of it is not smoking it from a chalice for euphoric purposes, but using in other forms in controlled amounts ie pills etc.

I'm so sick of people judging others for their opinion.  Especially married women who all of a sudden think they're saints.  Imagine on this thread you have the gall to imply that I'm a fornicator because I hold the opinion that according to the bible's definition of fornication, sex with your partner before marriage is not a sin.  So far NO ONE has been able to prove anything different.  Only cast aspersions and foolish judgements.  No wonder people are turned off of christianity when people like you think they're better because they follow what their interpretation of the Bible is.

At least I am not a hypocrite.  We are all works in progress  as we submit to the potter's hands.

This is the same reason people are so shocked when pastors are found sleeping with members, laundering cash and having extra marital affairs.  This foolish expectation that christians are perfect and blameless.  Nonsense.  They sin in secret.  I on the other hand have nothing to hide.  I used to smoke weed.  So what.  If I had a partner, which I don't at the moment, I would have no problem being intimate with him (after a while) if we love each other and we're in a committed relationship.  Period. If I am wrong God will work on changing me as I continue to submit to HIS spirit, and NOT what PEOPLE SAY Christianity is supposed to be.

sisimose:

why do u want to know if anyone has a problem with you being born again and a spliff head?

what's a "spliff head"?

sisimose:

since when did anyone become answerable to another? your belief is personal so don't invite criticism from people who are not[b] perfect[/b].

Um, since James 5:16? "Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective. "

If he considers it a sin then it's good that he's confessing to his "brethren".  Although Im sure he only posted this for the attention.  

sisimose:

i can advise you from an unbiased point of view, and say to you '' weed is wack, it does nothing for you mentally '' so from a medical perspective, you doing damage to your brain. END OF STORY

WRONG! Cannabis has been used for its medicinal properties for centuries.

Fact: Medicinal marijuana alleviates the chronic symptoms of many diseases such as Fibromyalgia, spasticity from multiple sclerosis, depression, chronic pain, and nausea associated with chemotherapy.

The conspiracy not to make it legal continues, however its medicinal benefits cannot be denied and in fact has recently gained momentum in terms of confirmation.  Do your own research as see for yourself dear.  The problem is the abuse of it, and the overuse of it for euphoric purposes.  Marijuana is neither addictive nor "wack" as you so eloquently put it.

Don't believe that media rubbish about it affecting mental health.  On campus many of my colleagues smoked the cannabis and it helped them focus.  I know of people who've smoked it into old age and they are fine.

However, nothing should be abused.

http://bbsnews.net/bw2003-03-03a.html

TayoD:

@trini_girl,

The only thing I've tried is a little wine (for my stomach's sake) . I don't know for what reason to give ganja a try since my head is very clear as it is.

For your stomach's sake. lol! You sound so British. Are you sure you're Nigerian?

Well I guess it's a Caribbean thing then.

busygirl:

Babaearly, it's such a pity dt u smoke weed yet u're born again, maybe u should nt say born again, u're BORN AGAINST because from d very first day u started weeding, u grieved d holy spirit nd he az left u. when u repent nd stop he'll come back.

busygirl,

so you are now judge and saviour of babaearly. haba. you people. who are you to say that the gentleman is not born again, and how dare you say the holy spirit has left him. What rubbish! And please tell me exactly what qualifies "grieving the holy spirit". Get a clue and grow up! Stop this judgemental nonsense! It is not the nature of christ.

TayoD, confess now, don't tell me u never try some ganja in ur life. Im sure u have.

I am no  hypocrite oh. As we say in Trini," is like this,I blaze it to get de mellow vibes"  

I've stopped now though, any type of smoking could do some damage to your insides.

what kind?  

tlops:

Well the truth is that paying of tithe and giving to the needy are two different responsibilties of a christian. but we need to know that they are not substitute to each other. Paying of tithe is a stronger obligation. the bible says PAY your tithe (to the priest) and Give to the poor. as we can see from this semantics paying is an obligation while give is subject to one's judgment.
Matt 26:8-11

where is your scriptural proof that tithing today is the responsbility of the christian? please show it. and while you're at it, explain the tithe as it was described in Deuteronomy 14:22, compare it to what churches do today and consider the truth. anything else is just your opinion

tlops:

8When the disciples saw this, they were indignant. "Why this waste?" they asked. 9"This perfume could have been sold at a high price and the money given to the poor."

This is the same way must people (chrisrians) think, they always think giving to the church is a waste and that preacher are there to "take advantage" of their congregation. well its not new.

Are you comparing anointing/worshipping the son of Man with giving money to a religous organisation Nonsense!

tlops:

10Aware of this, Jesus said to them, "Why are you bothering this woman? She has done a beautiful thing to me. 11The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me.

Your tithe must be paid to the church and you cannot give it as a gift to the needy. Otherwise God will come for it.Mal 3.10.

Lol! Thanks for giving me morning chuckle. God will come for His tithe.
Please explain what relevence Malachi 3:10 has to your previous statement about God coming for tithe.

Thanks much.

TayoD:

@trin_girl,

Again, you are refering to tithing as practiced under the Law of Moses. How was it done before the Law of Moses ever came into being?

TayoD,

I'm disappointed that you're not presenting any valuable rebuttal to my contributions. I must take this to mean that you're unsure of your position and cannot defend it with relevent scripture, because this is not your style.

However, as you wish, go ahead and pay your tax to the church sir, I choose freedom.

stimulus:

1 Corinthians 3:5-8

'Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.'

@stimulus
Most excellent response.  Even though all of this antagonist babaearly's posts lack personal conviction and are unworthy of any intelligent consideration or debate.

Enigma:

@Trini girl

You put your finger on an important point in passing in one of your posts earlier.

Indeed, there is an argument that when Malachi said "Will a man rob God" he was addressing that statement to (I think, at least in part to) the priests who were abusing the ancient Israelite/Jewish tithe. Read in particular the beginning of Malachi 2 or indeed the whole of Malachi 1 and 2 carefully.

The "tithes" preachers do not usually refer to those passages of course. Neither do they usually refer to Deuteronomy 14: 22 et seq that you referred to especially as the emphasis was to share the tithe with the poor and to enjoy some of it yourself by spending it on whatever your soul desires, .

Hi Enigma,

You're correct. If we read Malachi in its entirety we see the contextual truth of it.

It's unfortunate that people refuse to release themselves for fear of being "put under a curse".

Even further on in Deuteronomy we see things that contradict this monthly so called tithe

Deut 26:12-13

When you have made an end of tithing all the tithes of your increase the third year, which is the year of tithing, and have given it to the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, that they may eat within your gates, and be filled,

Then you shall say before the LORD your God, I have brought away the hallowed things out of my house, and also have given them to the Levite, and to the stranger, to the fatherless, and to the widow, according to all your commandments which you have commanded me; I have not transgressed your commandments, neither have I forgotten them

But pastors, bishops and other so called Men Of God conveniently focus on the misinterpretation (or perhaps manipulation) of Malachi.

@bennygee

lol! hi bennygee, how now?

Thanks much. I think we all need to do our own searching and find truth in all things.

babaearly:

the Pre-Jesus was Michael the Archangel!

what

TayoD:

@trini_girl,
Tithes belong to God mcuh before the law came into effect and a transient law does not remove an eternal fact.

Im compelled to comment more on this statement, since I was almost offended by the word "transient". It makes what christ did sound so trite.

When Abraham offered a tithe to Melchizidek it wasn't really tithe in the strictest sense according to Deut. 14, it was more like a tribute, homage, to one who is greater, even than he was.

However, for those who were under the law, it was like the greater, giving to the lesser (levites, homeless, widows), since Levi owned no land or wordly possessions.

Both had the same intent of charity (love), homage and obedience.

Tayo, you can't possibly believe that giving 10% of your income is tithing in it's truest sense.

I even question that, because 10% of my "increase" could be interpreted as 10% of anything extra I get, like a bonus, and we all know how hard those are to come by.

TayoD:

I can't recall Abraham asking Melchizedek the same question. We say our faith is patterned after Abraham and yet we do not do his works. What kind of children are we?

I think it's a valid question. Since the children of Israel knew EXACTLY what the tithe was used for, not supernaturally but in their bellies. So then if we follow tithing now, should it not be the same?

TayoD:

@trini_girl,

You are making one obvious and unintended mistake in your reading and explanation regarding this tithing issue.  Tithing has nothing to do with the law.  Tithing was brought into the law and did not originate from the law.

I am making no mistake. However I'm beginning to understand your error in reasoning.  The "law" was not just the 10 commandments. I understand that you're trying to seperate law from tithe, and it is impossible.  Mosaic Law covered commandments, ordinances and judgements.

Regardless of its origin, it was under the ERA of law. I agree that tithing post dates Abraham and Jacob, however, the tithe was a form of worship to and celebration of God.  If, according to your "divine reasoning", God still requires this form of worship, then we also need to sacrifice burnt offerings to please/appease God.

TayoD:

Abraham and Jacob were not under the law and still paid tithe. I am not under the law, so why should I not pay?

The mention of this was clearly to show that Melchizedek, a type of christ, was so great the EVEN Abraham CHOSE to pay give a tenth of his plunder, at that time, not every month or on a regualr basis, to the order of the priesthood.  So in a way you are endorsing my point.  If Abraham CHOSE to pay a tithe at that point in time to Melchizedec pre law, then why does the modern church under a completely new law make it mandatory?

TayoD:

Your rendering of Hebrews 7 isn't really refering to tithing per se.  Our need that Jesus fulfilled as a High Priest is not to give us permission to eat that which God says belongs to Him.  Tithes belong to God mcuh before the law came into effect and a transient law does not remove an eternal fact.

I beg to differ.  Hebrew 7 is the pivotal point between those who lived under law, and what the resurrection of Christ represents to the modern day church.  You don't see it, because you don't see tithing as falling under the era of law. Which is where your error lies.

TayoD:

Abraham did not offer agricultural products as tithe and neither did Jacob.  How you claim the tithe is only agricultural products is still beyond me.

Let me bring it within your grasp then.    That statement was neither all inclusive nor blanket.  I'm surprised you did not comment on how the tithe was order to be used according to Deuteronomy 14:22-29

Even if we now choose to subscribe to the tithe, we should do it the way the did it in the old testament, not so? One tenth to a place where EVERYONE can enjoy it as a form of worship to God and thanksgiving for his goodness.

If you focus on the spirit of tithing and not the act itself, you'll see that God does not need or require money. He requires obedience and worship. The tithe was a form of worship and celebration to God.

To obey is better than sacrifice, correct? We dont rob God of money if we don't give, we rob him of worship, reverence that is DUE to His name.

dafidixone:

Never allow your mind to guide you but let the spirit do.

Fornication is sexual immorality with two unlegally married people.

You must be born again to appreciate this fact.

Jesus is Lord no Controversy.

did you even bother to read anything on this thread or on this page for that matter?
I assume you meant "illegally" married. What in the world is 'illegal marriage' between a man and a woman? Please define.

9ja4eva:

People shld stop arguing when something is clear for them to see.

And people should shut up when they have nothing of substance to say.

One more, and this is especially for dear mr. TayoD

Deuteronomy 14:22-29

"Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year.  Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the LORD your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the LORD your God always.

But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the LORD your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the LORD will choose to put his Name is so far away), then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the LORD your God will choose.

Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice

And do not neglect the Levites living in your towns, for they have no allotment or inheritance of their own.

At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year's produce and store it in your towns,  so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns[b] may come and eat and be satisfied[/b], and so that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands."


People, this is serious.  The tithe was never meant for a building, a pastor or a prophet.  It was always meant for the people.  The tithe was worship to God as reverence for blessing the work of your hands.  

I wonder, when Malachi said "will a man rob god, yet you rob him with tithes and offerings" if he meant that they were robbing God of worship and reverence for the things he has done for them.  Does God have need of any material thing?No. All things were made by him.  But he requires obedience, reverence and worship.

In Malachi 3 we see God speaking directly to the house of Jacob, rebuking them because they turned away from Him, and as such turned away from the law of tithing which was required at the time.

Malachi 3:6-11

"I the LORD do not change. So you, O descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed.  Ever since the time of your forefathers you have turned away from my decrees and have not kept them. Return to me, and I will return to you," says the LORD Almighty.

     "But you ask, 'How are we to return?'

    "Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me.

     "But you ask, 'How do we rob you?'

     "In tithes and offerings.
       You are under a curse—the whole nation of you—because you are robbing me.

Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it. I will prevent pests from devouring your crops, and the vines in your fields will not cast their fruit," says the LORD Almighty.

As seen above in Deutronomy, the tithe was enjoyed in the presence of God.  So what he was saying was that if they turned their hearts to Him again, and OBEY him but giving the tithe according to Deut 14:22, he will restore their land.  

When he said "I will prevent pests from devouring your crops", that's what He meant, it was not a spiritual parallel for anything.
He literally meant.  I will save your crops, so that they can have food.

Many pastors use this as a parallel to life today saying that it means  God will bless you if you pay the tithe.  The storehouse being the church, and many people have suffered because of this lie.

Sometimes I wonder if christians are poor because they tithe but do not follow other parts of the law, and therefore have put themselves under a curse.  I know it sounds like a paradox, but consider what the scripture says in Galatians concerning following the law.

Go read Malachi 3:6-17 and see the full context of this prophetic word from God through Malachi and decide for yourselves.

babyosisi:

The sad thing is all these pastors that now encourage you to tithe and give with a credit card.
Borrowing money at 21% interest and above to pay what they tell you ,you owe.
People we have to be wise,If you cannot afford 10% of your salary or if after giving it,you and your kids will starve for the later part of the month,God accepts 2,3,4 percent and will bless you and not curse you.
[b]His yoke is easy and his burden is light[/b]

If you can afford to give 20% cheerfully,by all means do so.We are not under any bondage.
I believe in giving cheerfully and sowing seeds of faith and I have not regretted the results it's yielded me.

amen to that babyosisi.

I didnt know that the church has stooped so law as to now put people in debt in the name of tithe. How is your credit card a part of your increase it's sad how gullible people are, and it angers me what men in positions of leadership and influence do to fill their own pockets in the name of christianity and obedience to God.

babyosisi:

let the tithers carry on with it.
It is not a Christian command and I'm at peace with that decision.
tayod every church needs money,that I choose to call my contributions free will offerings does not make it unusable.
The Pastor has never returned my offerings to me till date.
God does not curse anyone,let's not be deceived by this.

Any pastor that tells anyone to forget paying their rent and household bills and give 10 percent of their salary to the Church is very unfair.
Some people simply cannot even survive from month to month on all their salary.
Christians have common sense and ought to use it.
You give as you are blessed.
There is no mandate on how much.
The most impoortant thing is to give.

babyosisi

I agree with you 10, I mean 100%

@TayoD

Instead of trying to deliberate the who did what where whens of the tithe, let's focus on why the tithe is not relevant to Christ's church (meaning the followers of christ, not a building). 

I mentioned Hebrews 7 above (another one of my favs), it speaks the better way to live apart from the law, confirming Jesus Christ as our new great High Priest after the order of Melchizedek, but with a much better covenant 

Let's see what it says shall we?
-------
"This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High. He met Abraham returning from the defeat of the kings and blessed him, and Abraham gave him a tenth of everything. First, his name means "king of righteousness"; then also, "king of Salem" means "king of peace." Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God he remains a priest forever.

Just think how great he was: Even the patriarch Abraham gave him a tenth of the plunder! (hmmm, not money? no cash? , 1/10 of ALL spoils? interesting)

Now the law requires the descendants of Levi who become priests to collect a tenth from the people—that is, their brothers—even though their brothers are descended from Abraham.

This man, however, did not trace his descent from Levi, yet he collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises.

And without doubt the lesser person is blessed by the greater.

In the one case, the tenth is collected by men who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living.

One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham, because when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor. "

NOW THE GOOD PART 


"If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come—one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?


For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law!"

WAIT! STOP HERE! READ THAT LINE ABOVE AGAIN!

"The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

And it was not without an oath! Others became priests without any oath, but he became a priest with an oath when God said to him:
   "The Lord has sworn
      and will not change his mind:
   'You are a priest forever.' "

Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant. "

"Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; but because[b] Jesus lives forever[/b], he has a permanent priesthood

Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

Such a high priest meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens.

Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people.

He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.

For the law appoints as high priests men who are weak; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever."
---------------------------------------
See that? Jesus Christ meets our needs! period! Not Jesus Christ meets our needs when we pay tithe. 

Therefore since we are under NEW and BETTER law, the tithe is now DEFUNCT!

What stands is obedience, love, faithfulness, oh and it just came to me again, BUT THE GREATEST OF THESE IS LOVE!  

Giving is a part of love is it not? Whether it be a dollar, a shirt, or a pot of egusi soup.

Don't make yourself bankrupt because of this tithing bondage folks. Embrace the law of liberty.

Break free from the bondage of tithing - Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.

If you observe one law, you have to observe them ALL, OR ELSE! - Gal 3:10  All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

TayoD:

@Babyosisi,

You are putting forth a lot of human argument which sound good to the reason but in my estimation, don't hold up to the light of divine revelation.

Giving, whether in a time of plenty or a time of need, is never an easy thing in most cases. You can always think of a thousand and one things to do with that money.

I think you are the second person I have heard talk about some Pastors requiring their members to pay tithes from their credit cards. Needless to say, that is not the Bible. Tithes are a percentage of your increase and not a percentage of a want. God is not a task-master and will never have you go into debt to pay up what He expects from an increase.

I am often perplexed by people's argument that our needs should take priority over God's. God said if you do not pay tithe, you are robbing Him. When did He turn over the ownership of the tithe to us? He already promised in His Word that He will give seed to the Sower. If you have no seed to give, perhaps it is because you are always fond of eating them.

While I have disproved everything that trini_girl has tabled as argument against the tithe, I am yet to find anyone show me where the N.T. says the tithe is done away with. Please do not say we are not under the law anymore because Abraham and Jacob were not under the law and yet paid tithes as a matter of covenant relationship with God.

@tayoD

Disproved ke? In your mind.  So because I choose not to partake in your theological back and forth on this matter you think you have disproved the truth by dead letter reasoning.  Don't mistake my silence for your victory. 

If your revelation was divine my friend, it would certainly have showed you that according to Hebrews 7, we have a glorious new covenant for whosover will accept, so that we no longer have to live according to the law as the PHARISEES mentioned in the new testament were still doing.

They had not accepted Jesus Christ as the messiah, and obviously the status quo before his resurrection would have been to continue following the law, including the practice of tithing. 

What did Paul say about the law? In Romans 7 he did not condemn the law, but gave credence to it, because without it, he would not have known what sin is.  However, there is a better way.

Romans 7, one of my favourite passages from Paul.  It says

"Do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to men who know the law—that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives? For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage.

So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man.

So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God.

For when we were controlled by the sinful naturethe sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. "

Thank God we are no longer under the bondage of the written code! 

He continues:-

"What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet."

But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead. 9Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death.

, We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.
,  I agree that the law is good.  "

Paul was saying that the law was good ONLY because it made him aware of his sinful "wretched" nature, which made him feel condemned.

However, he goes on to say:-

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. "

Therefore, tayoD, we live by the law of the Spirit and not the law of the flesh that only brings condemnation. For example,
people who feel GUILTY if they don't TITHE 

TV01:

Hi TG,

On-topic;

Okay, I'll ask you this and then leave it for now. Is sex outside marriage biblically sanctioned? Can you show it with references from the scriptures?

Is sex outside marriage between a man and woman in a long term, monogamous committed relationship NOT biblically sanctioned? Can you show it with references from the scriptures?

TV01:

Off-topic;

I can't access my non-work e-mail right now and I'm catching a flight later today. I'll try and contact you via e-mail by late next week. Apologies, it's just so frenzied right now.

God bless.

You're leaving for a whole week
Ok, looking forward to your email then.

@goldenray

goldenray:

If u are sincere wyt yourself, u'd know that paying tithe is just as important as giving to the needy. giving to the needy instead of paying your tithe should only arise if you cannot spare any other funds from your resources to do that.

In other words, you are broke, with your tithe in your hand, and someone needs help. Then you can go right ahead and i beleive God will be pleased with you.

so now God compromises his so called tithe IF there's someone in need. So does that mean you now OWE GOD next month since you used part of his so called tithe to help someone in need?

If you were a true believer you would know that above all else Jesus admonishes us to love our neighbours as ourselves. What kind of christian would I be if I gave $100.00 to the church, but because I "could not afford it", did not give my next door neighbour $10.00 to buy food for his starving children. At least you still have a little decency to say MAYBE you'll help your fellow man out if he desperately needs it and you have your tithe money.

Even moreso, why can't you help your neighbour with $50.00 and give the next $50.00 in offering to your church?

Pharisee! I say to you that giving to the needy is MORE IMPORTANT than giving ANY TYPE OF FUNDS to ANY RELIGIOUS INSTITUTION in the name of obedience to God.

@gheorge

Gheorghe:

[b]tithe is a bad dept,[/b]one has no option or choice to choose from.if really u study d bible and believe in the Word as written,then their is no basis to argue.What the pastors do with the money should not even be of concern to you but the FACT that God says bring:A COMMANDMENT , then the promises that follows it should be you target: He says put Me to TEST/PROVE Me and see if ,

Tithe is a bad debt lol!! Well in that case it should be written off in heaven sir.  The issue is not what pastors do with the money, the issue is that people are ignorant of truth and therefore live with the lie that they have to give 10% of their money to the church.  It is NOT BIBLICAL.

Gheorghe:

I got to where i am today because of my tithe convenant with God which is more than 10%.I told God i needed a specified change of job and promised to pay 20%.In less than a week i got that job and have been doing more than ok.

my friend, you were faithful with your giving, and God honoured it.  It could have been 10, 20, or 80% of whatever you're able to give. God rewards faith and faithfulness.  Don't reduce God to honouring just the tithe.

Gheorghe:

Giving to the needy is also encouraged because no one knows when he/she will host an Angel just like Abraham did and u could also be the Angel that God will use to work in other people's life,but[b] giving to the needy also needs spiritual[/b] directing to give to genuine people in need and not just anyboby who has taken begging as a profession or due to laziness.

So it's okay to give your money to the church blindly out of "obedience" and let God deal with the pastor, but you have to be spiritualy led  and must know the intent of a poor needy soul to help them out? Do you hear yourself?

Giving to the needy is not just "encouraged" my friend, it is MANDATED BY GOD.  Be careful of becoming a selfish christian who only does things for personal gain.

Gheorghe:

Give and u shall receive a reward but don't tell God how to use His funds or who to assisst with His fund

Don't tell God? Which God? The God who preaches from your pulpit every sunday to bring your tithe so that he can build his mansion for his children's children? Farewell my blind brother.

You defend the pastor who may or may not exploit church funds.  Thank God Jesus came to defend the sinner, the weak, the helpless and the poor.

TV01:

Back off topic;

I noticed your labelling me as your 1st choice MOG. I'm flattered, must be said. But after long, prayerful and thoughtful reflection (a whole nano second  ), I have to say no. That's not a reflection on you TG, it's me .

If I say yes, I'll have to demand you submit to "my authority" (thorougly unbiblical), always qualify your posts on Nairaland with "MyPas" (My Pastor says), and generally check your God given faculties whenever I speak. We'd have to gather followers (as numbers seem to be one way of legitimising MOGGERY) and start our own shursh (My Church), As if there is more than one? Of course in due time I'd delegate some small anointing/responsibility to you (My Ministry).

Of course, I'll have to finance this title and the empire that goes with it, so I might have to join the tithing and enforced offering brigade (not biblical). I'd like a plush office, necessitating a building fund so we could acquire a physical temple (redundant). Obviously I'd like staff, so that would lead to an organisational/hjierarchical structure being put in place (utter perversion of the NT relationship basis of worship),

I'd have to wear some weird kit. Dog collar anyone? Or worse still, fry my hair! Adopt some ecumenically profound title (Apolstolic-Prophet to the Futhermost galaxies  ) and camp out in the OT.

But the worst thing is I'd have to scrap my personal encounter with God and assume the role of a mediator (usurping The Lord). Equally tragic is the fact that you'll have to articulate your whole walk through me. So I won't enter in and I won't let you (or any of the others) enter in either.

Please understand.

God bless

Lol!! TV I am in the office here laughing so hard my colleagues are wondering what is the matter with me.  
You're just too funny!

But you forgot one thing.  As my MOG you have to endorse every decision I make in my personal life before I make it.
I can do nothing without your ecumenical counsel. _*sigh*

Check my profile and hit me up on Yahoo please. I want to talk to you.  

On topic now:

I can see you're confused.  You keep intermingling the definition of fornication with marriage.  We started to talk about what marriage is and when it starts on this thread, but it was offtopic.  

In any case, you're alluding that sex between a man and a woman in a relationship is ILLICIT sex, and it is not.
ILLICIT means unnatural and disallowed, and it has nothing to do with whether it's before or after marriage.

Unnatural is other types of sex, like homosexuality etc.

You're going around in circles. That's understandable.  This topic is beyond you, being a nigerian christian and all.  
I know how strict nigerians are about sexual matters, and I commend your efforts anyways.  

monshege:

mmh mmh mmh
"my children perish for lack of Knowledge"

then you should educate your children before they all die

Kinsh:


The reason y many of us don't get blessed is bcs we worry over thingz that doesnt matter to us i.e. none of our buz. If the pastors are using it to fatten their pockets wats your own as long as your fulfiling God's commnadement.

As for me i wont let anybody's hinder my blessing. I have done my own and let God Judge.

Pastors also pay tithe. I mean "tithe of tithes for the priests" Numbers 18:26 and Numbers 10:38 Digest it!

Its all about commandement. Dont use ONE to Judge ALL!!! Only God knows his true workers so let him Judge,  u have no excuse at the end saying you never paid your tithe bcs of a "Pastor" it will be tooooo bad 

Huff and puff all you want, but don't get side tracked.  Obeying God is one thing, obeying man is another.  And that's what paying 10% of your salary is, Obeying MAN. Forget the pastors and what they use the tithe for.  Even if you pay tithe to the church you're not obeying God, you'd be better off buying some groceries for the homeless, or giving clothes to the poor.

Didnt Jesus say that when we neglect the needy, we neglect him? Remember that?

also, um, do you know anything about the new covenant teaching? Can you show me where under the new covenant it endorses this 10% of your income concept? No. Because there is none.  Only old testament scripture, which the liberty of Jesus has replaced

9ja4eva:

Why would someone think Pre Marital sex is not fornication?

I guess because some people, unlike 'others', have the cranial capacity to think, and formulate conclusions for themselves, and not believe things just because the pastor said so.

Points to note

1. Tithing was never money, it was food.
2. Tithing was for the tribes of Israel
3. Tithing was under old testament law.
4. We no longer live under law, but under the dispensation of grace.
5. We are admonished to give, give cheerfully out of love on another and for God, whether it's 5, 10, 15 or 50%
6. The death and resurrection of Jesus has given us a wonderful, better NEW covenant, that replaces the covenant
    of law and judgement with mercy and grace.
7. Nowhere in the new testament is there scripture that supports the giving of 10% of you salary to a religous 
institution
8. Nowhere under the new convenant does it make tithing a mandatory pre requisite for being a "member" of any religous institution.
9. Religion has used this lie for their own personal gain and is totally contrary to the teachings of Christ.
10.  The tithe (food) in the old testament was never used for the church building, but kept in a storehouse so that those in need, in times of drought can be fed.
11.  The principle of the tithe is the same principle in the new testament.  Give and it shall be given back to you, sow and you shall reap harvest. Both substantially and spiritually.

We need to get out of this "my pastor said" mentality of christianity.
Read your Bible!