₦airaland Forum

tintingz:
Bilal ibn Rabbah was a black slave freed by Muhammad, became one of his closest companion and was assigned to call for prayer .

Point of correction, Bilial Ibn rabbah was a slave of Mohammed and not a black slave owned by a random Arab slave master. The fact is that Mohammed owned so many black slaves and if he chosed to free one, it is never a course for celebration. How about hundreds of other black slaves he did not free. Its been long you slippery Muslims have been using the story of Bilal Ibn rabbah as a propaganda tool to fool black people. Why must Mohammed enslave black people in the first place? Have you ever seen blacks enslave Arab people before? Never! So I should start dancing that Mohammed freed one slave among hundreds of slaves and sex slaves he owned?

Remember, Mohammed called blacks 'raisin head', just like calling someone a coconut head. This is in your hadith and your Arab slave masters are proud of Mohammed. And fya, Saudi Arabia outlawed the enslavement of black people around the 1960s, less than 60 years ago, through the pressure of the US president, John Kennedy. Mohammed, the Islamic perfect man is a slave trader and slave owner (sunnah Ibn majjah hadith number 2272).

tintingz:
If the colonial didn't invade Nigeria we will still be practicing our forefathers religion, but they came colonized and force blacks to accept Christianity and change their names, their culture, their religion. All what you stated are normal for colonists, they brought their culture and practice to Africa.

Even tho Uthman dan fodio was not the one that started the spread of Islam in Nigeria, some people were already converting to Islam through trading, Uthman built schools, gave women right etc. This is what invaders do, they invade and contribute to the society.

Your missionary crusaders didn't gave any life, they gave disasters to our fathers and mothers.

Which life? Imaginary life or what?

Lol, comparing America with Arabs, america is a deist country, the founding fathers were deists so don't think america is a Christian country.

There is reason why it is called "United state of America" it is a state for all race, it was created.

So where is your evidence that arabs are still keeping slaves? Keeping slaves is illegal in all countires today.


bigot,

Muhammad had blacks as his companion, his last sermon was to muslims not to discriminate.

Be ready to go to Islamic hell.

Mohammed didn't have a single black among his sahabas. All the black with Mohammed are all his slaves. Can you mention a single black man, who follow Mohammed, and never his slave?

vedaxcool:
Please say 3 nairaland Muslims . . . they should be able explain themselves clearly.

They are 3 active nairaland Muslims who spend all their time defending Mohammed and Islam. I think for the first time are saying, publicly, what they acknowledged in private.

The truth hurts bro. Islam is a dying religion that can only be sustained via threat (in Muslim-dominated countries) and lies (in non-muslim dominated countries).

What did Mohammed, in the hadith, say about black people? Did Mohammed buy and sell black slaves?

plainbibletruth:
A man may be muddled up and do odd things. That may affect only him and no one else.

But when a religion’s holy book, the Quran is a confusing and a tedious book then that affects untold number of people.

You may or may not agree with the content of the Bible, but one thing you can agree with is that it is a readable book. Its stories are appealing and what it teaches are thought provoking. Its language is clear and makes for most people to understand it.

The quran is very different. The author(s) of the quran seems to be very confused, unable to communicate their thoughts sensibly and often jump from one subject to another in the same sentence. The only clear subject in that book is violence. Every other thing is confusing and needs interpretation.

You don’t need a book of interpretation to make sense of the Bible. Even though it claims to be a clear book, easy to understand, clearly explained, and with no doubts in it, Muslims know that without interpretation the quran cannot be understood. Hence the several voluminous books of interpretation written to help Muslims understand it.

The irony is that this has worked to the advantage of Islam. Because the quran is confusing, Muslims can twist it whichever way they want. They can literally talk from both sides of the mouth on any single issue quoting the quran as their source.

Consequently that single book has become a source of problem for both its adherents and others more than one man’s innocent odd behaviour can be to anyone around him.

You are 100% correct. The Qur'an is the worst literature written by any author. You can never read any 12 to 15 consecutive verses that will make any sense, never. It remains a mystery why Muslims are blind this simple fact.

The Arabs, having seen this limitations, would rather encourage non-arab Muslims to memorized it, in Arabic only, than reading it to understand the context. If you recite the Quran in a language you understand, like Yoruba, you will sound very stupid and foolish to the public, especially Yoruba speakers, because the Quran makes no coherent sense at all.

For Muslims to solve this problem, they resorted to the hadith and the sira, as a back up, to the Quran.

smallrincowis16:
the prophets are most exceptional of Allah's creature. so there are some rules that were relax for them because of the enormity of the task of prophethood
for prophet marrying Aisha., I will just tell you that's way in those in those days. we have companions that marry at the age of 8 and give birth at that age even before they accept islam.

so do your research very well, those time people are more matured than you can think of now. even in bible Joshua married marry at what age?

Act 10:34,
Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God is not a respecter of person'.

God does not show favoritism, allahh may do. God treat all human beings equal. Mohammed was receiving revelation for his personal benefits.

On mohammed's marriage to aisha, it is wrong for a man of 54 to sleep with a girl of 9. In a sane society mohammed will be in jail for doing that and Abu Bakr will be arrested for condoning such and allowing his young daughter to be abused sexually.

Dont even try to justify the action of mohammed by saying it was acceptable in those days. You muslims told us that mohammed stopped the arab's practice of burying their daughters alive, even without any evidence from non-muslim sources, why cant he also stopped the bad practice of an old man sleeping with a small girl? The quran also sanctioned this practice in quran 65:4. Technically, there is no age limit for marriage in islam, going by what quran 65:4 said.

So your attempt to defend mohammed here is not possible since he even approved it in the quran, which means it is an everlasting practice, in islam, for a man of 51 to marry a small girl of 6. Mohammed, being the islamic perfect man, should know better and exhibit a higher moral standard which he didnt.

smallrincowis16:
just one question,, who constructed the mosque in Jerusalem masjid aqsah and when was it contructed

Your question does not correlate with my response. You asked me to show you where Jesus read the Torah and I did.

I will however give you my respect. Can you tell me who constructed the aqsa mosque in Jerusalem and when? Can you also tell me the meaning of Jerusalem and what language it is?

smallrincowis16:
laughing, if you have ever read or listen to Qur'an you will know it's beyond human reasoning......not like collection of books including port which is called bible

I have read the quran and it is not a rocket science. As a matter of fact rocket science is far more difficult to understand than your quran. People with simple comprehension skill will understand.

I am curios here, why must allahh choose arabic as the language of the quran having known the complexity on that language? Why cant allahh reveal the quran in a language like english which can be understood easily by anyone. Sorry bro, God had nothing to do with the quran because the entire quran is what mohammed conceived and desired for his personal benefit.

And don't tell me 99% of Muslims have comprehension problems, since they cannot understand the quran without the tasfir; it's an insult to other Muslims.

smallrincowis16:
Since you listen to those people then you have becomes a scholar?!!!!!!!!!. who even told you that those people are scholars? without learning the language of qur'an?

I am not a scholar. I read to protect myself from altaqiyya merchants on the Internet.

Dr Zakir Naik had received several award from the Saudi authorities for his extensive knowledge of Islam and his propagation of Islam. By Saudi standard, he is a scholar. Dr. Qaradawi is also a scholar and the former grand mufti of Egypt who had the authority to issue fatwa. If these guys are not scholars, please mention the real scholars you know.

What do you mean by 'the language of the quran'? This is what makes Islam a religion most non-muslims do not trust because you guys are always making excuses for the limitations and flaws in your religion.

smallrincowis16:
qur'an depends on itself and hadith simple. if that's what you want to hear. how will I know the meaning if the one that it was revealed to never explain it. that's part of the problem faced by christians.

You said 'Quran depend on itself and hadith', that's a contradictory statement. If the Quran depend on itself it won't need the hadith. However the Quran seem useless without the hadith or the sunnahh. Quran can never be independent of itself because over 90% of sharia law and Islamic jurisprudence come from the hadith. Islam will never have any shape without the hadith.

As I asked earlier, why must allahh depend on men to clear many difficult issues with the Quran instead of making himself clear in the first place? Do you have 100% confidence in the tasfir written by men which are subjective in most cases?

smallrincowis16:
I have already quoted a verse for you, you people have a lot of problem, there are some verses you can never know the meaning you either bring the hadith of the prophet s.a.w to explain it or another verse, this is because Allah made qur'an to be revealed some time to explain some current issues during the time of the prophet. even there are so many of the Prophet's word that even his companions have to ask for its meaning to understand it, what now for the Qur'an.
even in our daily communications our language is subjective until the sender clarify some things on the his chooses word. you might get the information wrong




qur'an confirm it that some of the verses in qur'an can't be understood
see Q3vs07

And you told me there is no 'single' contradiction in the Quran. allahh said the Quran is easy to understand:

And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition? [Quran translation by Yusuf Ali 54:17]

{So We have made this (Quran) easy in your own tongue, only that you may give glad tidings to those who are God-conscious and warn with it the most quarrelsome people.)
Quran 19:97

You can see that allahh himself said he had made the Quran 'easy to understand', why do we need the tasfir? Can you show me a single verse in the Quran where allahh recommended the use of the tasfir to clear up the contradictions and difficulties in the Quran?

And again, why did allahh, in some places, said the Quran is easy to understand
and in another place said it is not easy to understand? If that's not a contradiction what can we call it?

fratermathy:
I am not debating that there are some funny verses in the Koran. We can also agree that there are some funny verses as well in the Bible. However, it takes PEOPLE to interpret those verses and act on them. Not every Muslim will act on those verses. Some even ignore them entirely. Those that use them to justify their bloodlust are nothing but criminals and should be treated as such.

I won't take you serious until I see a single church build in Saudi Arabia. What I see you do is Islamic deception or Christian ignorance.

Islam, by nature, is intolerant, violence and deceptive to the core.

smallrincowis16:
third puzzle


he remaining part of the verse 35:1 says that Allah swt increases in creation what He wills. It is fascinating that the Qur'an answers the allegation someone might raise against this verse, in the verse itself. So while God creates Angels with two, three or four pairs of wings, He has the power to increase this further and is not restricted at all. This is the strongest interpretation and it is supported by Ibn Kathir (d. 1372CE) who says the following in his renowned Tafsir Al-Qur'an Al-Azim:
Among them (angels) are some who have two wings, some have three and some who have four. Some have more than that, as stated in the Hadith mentioning that the Messenger of Allah saw Jibril, peace be upon him, on the Night of the Isra with six hundred wings. (Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Abridged, Darussalam Publishers & Distributors, 2000, vol. 8, p. 120)
So this is the meaning that has been understood by the earlier muslims from the beginning. As Mufti Muhammad Shafi, the late Grand Mufti of Pakistan, writes the following in his tafsir:
And the words: (in twos and threes and fours) are, evidently enough, numerical adjectives referring to (wings) in the sense that the number of the feathers angels have varies from angels to angel. Some have only two wings. Others have three. Still others have four. Even the numbers mentioned here are not comprehensive, rather they are mentioned here just as an example, because it is proven by a Hadith in Sahih of Muslim that Sayyidina Jibra'il (as), has six hundred feathers. (Qurtubi, Ibn Kathir).

Moreover, it is also possible that these three words are numerical adjectives referring to the word (rusulan: bearers of the message) in the sense that these angels who deliver messages from Allah Ta'ala to this world sometimes come in twos or threes or fours. Once again, in this situation too, the number of four is not intended for restriction. It is there just for example because the coming of angels in a much larger number stands proved from the Qur'an itself. (Abu Hayyan in Al-Bahr ul-Muhit).

The next sentence: (He adds to the creation what He wills) means that Allah Ta'ala has the power to increase whatever He wills and as much as He wills in the creation of everything He has originated. This obviously is related to: (ajnihah: wings) in that the feathers and wings of the angels are not something simply restricted to two or four in numbers, for they could be many more than these if Allah Ta'ala so wills. Most commentators say exactly this. (Ma'ariful Qur'an, Maktaba-e-Darul-Uloom, Karachi, 2003, vol. 7, pp. 322-323)

2. We know that human beings cannot see angels in their true form as they are created from light. Therefore, Angel Gabriel assumed an alternative form when the Prophet Muhammad pbuh saw him. This alternate form was described with 600 wings, but it may well be that Angel Gabriel normally assumes a form with less wings. This may have been a temporary state that Angel gabriel was in.

3. It must also be noted that Angel Gabriel is unique in many ways. The Qur'an often mentions him seperately from the other angels for emphasis, and he is referred to in the Qur'an as Ruh Al-Qudus, or the Holy Spirit (not to be confused with the entity bearing the same name from the Trinity). In this verse, Allah describes the Angels who fit into a group called "messengers". it may be that Gabriel is of a group of angels of a higher class.

You are confusing yourself the more, just because you wanted to clear up a contradiction in your Koran. Your explanation is incoherent bro and I got no time analysis the confusions you put up there. Your Qur'an cannot keep contradicting itself only for you to start using the hadith and the tasfir to clear things up. That means the Qur'an is not dependable and incomplete.

smallrincowis16:
stop being hypocritical. every prophet was special to Allah that other people. so by the fact that he married more wives he is padepholine? did he married them legally according to islamic rules or not ? did the wives ever object to the marriage? we're they forced to marriage? and were they all comsumatEd? pls think before you talk pls. don't bring your bigotry here. try to think rightly not with anus

Sorry bro, I won't accept your argument here. Do you mean there are separate laws guiding the prophets of God and another laws guiding ordinary citizens? This is strange!

My question remain, why did allahh ask Mohammed to take unlimited numbers of wives but restricted Muslims to only 4 wives? Why can't Mohammed live by the rules he made?

On the issue of pedophile, Mohammed married Aisha when she was 6 and started sleeping with her when she became 9, while Mohammed was 54. Do you think it's rational for a man of 51 to have a girl of 6 as a wife or finance? Should we accept any form of immoral and irrational behavior because 'our' prophet did it? Come on, its morally wrong for a man of 54 sleeping with a girl of 9, young enough to be his granddaughter.

smallrincowis16:
response to your first puzzle, note you can'tcan't understand some verses in the Qur'an without tafseer (exegesis ) see qur'an 3vs74-7




Response:

Answering-islam refers here to Surah 22:47 “Yet they ask thee to hasten on the Punishment! But God will not fail in His Promise. Verily a Day in the sight of thy Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning.” and Surah 70:4 “ The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a Day the measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years.” Surah 70:4 refers to the day of judgement, which is confirmed in the next hadith:

Muslim in his Saheeh nr. 987

Abu Hurayrah said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There is no owner of treasure who does not pay his zakaah, but it will be heated in the Fire of Hell and made into plates with which his sides and forehead will be branded until Allaah passes judgement between His slaves on a Day the length of which will be “like fifty thousand years”, then he see shown his path and whether it leads to Paradise or to Hell. And there is no owner of camels who does not pay zakaah on them, but a soft sandy plain will be prepared for him and they will be made to step on him. Every time the last of them has gone the first of them will return, until Allaah passes judgement between His slaves on a Day the length of which will be “like fifty thousand years”, then he will see his path and whether it leads to Paradise or to Hell.


Now let us take a look at the next hadith:
k
Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 25, Number 3658

The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) then said: Rejoice, you group of poor emigrants, in the announcement that you will have perfect light on the Day of Resurrection You will enter Paradise “half a day” before the rich, and that is “five hundred years. “ k

Some scholars interpretated this last hadith to mean “that the day of Resurrection will be 1000 years, since half a day is five hundred years”. If we accept this interpretation there would seem to be a contradiction bewteen the lenght of the day of Resurrection, is it 1000 years or 50.000 years ? However i shall demonstrate that this interpretation of the last hadith is not correct.

One day with our Lord (means: in the afterlife, after the resurrection) is as 1000 years of our Reckoning (see Surah 22:47). In soerah 70:4 we are told that the Day of Resurrection has a measure of 50.000 years in totality (nowhere does Surah 70:4 us tell that one day with our lord is as 50.000 years of our reckoning). This clearly means that that whole period of the day of Resurrection consists of 50 days/periods, since one day with our Lord is as 1000 years. Therefor the Day of Resurrection has: 50.000 / 1000 = 50 days/periods/stages in it , from which each day/period/stage measures a 1000 years ( see Surah 22:47).

Al-Qurtubi Tafsir 70:4

Imam Al-Qurtubi in his tafsir after citing different views on this topic writes:“Yaman related that 50,000 years refers to judgment day, for in it are 50 stations each of which will last for a 1,000 years…”


Now with the correct knowledge regarding this issue we can interpretate the hadith of Sunan Abu Dawud correctly, which tells us that the poor will enter paradise half a day before the rich, which refers to half a day of one (seperate) day/period/stage (which is 500 years) in the “Day of Resurrection”. And “not” the half of the whole Day of Resurrection ! Nowhere does the hadith in Sunan Abu dawud or any other version mention this ! Notice also carefully how the Prophet in the hadith of Sunan Abu Dawud makes a difference/seperation between the Day of Resurrection and “half a day” . When one reads carefully this hadith, one sees that “half a day” not at all refers to half the Day of Resurrection (as some scholars wrongly stated). If the prophet wanted to refer to half the Day of Resurrection he would have said: “You will enter Paradise half “that” day before the rich” . However the Prophet clearly didn’t referred to the whole Day of Resurrection, since he specificly in the hadith uses the expression “half a day” , which clearly refers to another day then the whole Day of Resurrection. In other words theres no contradiction between the quranic verses and hadith regarding this issue if we use the correct interpretation (which is supported by the Quran and authentic hadith). And Allah Almighty knows best.

What about Surah 32:5 ?

Let’s take a look at Surah 32:5 which says:“He regulates the affair from the heaven to the earth; then shall it ascend to Him in a day/period the measure of which is a thousand years of what you count.” Ansar Al-'Adl writes: “This verse mentions that the affairs/commands of God descend to earth and return to Him, this period being one thousand years of our reckoning. Alternatively, it may refer to the laws of science, which govern the universe and the period it takes for them to return.” Moreover Ibn Kathir was of the view that this ayah pertains to distance [see: The English translation of “Tafsir Ibn Kathir” , published by Darussalam, Riyadh, Volume 7, Pg., 608].

If you say that I cannot understand the Qur'an without the tasfir that means the Quran is not self-explanatory and incomplete. It won't be fair for you to use the tasfir to explain away the obvious contradictions in your Quran. The Quran should have cleared up the contradictions by itself without resorting to human assistance (the tasfirs) to do that.

Can we now conclude that the Quran is confusing and not self-explanatory without the tasfir written by men? Can we now say that we cannot fully understand the Qur'an without the tasfir? Why can't allahh make his words clears, why must he make contradictory statements that can only be corrected using the tasfir of Islamic scholars?

What do we follow, the Quran or the tasfir?

smallrincowis16:
who is talking about that here, if you want to learn you create a new thread for it please.
and for clarity, simple answer to your puzzle is that for any evidence in islam, we only use it where the prophet and his students use it.
the question is did the prophet kill anybody unjustly. from all the wars that happened during the time of the propget. pls which one was initiated by him or his student?
if you want to know better about those verses you can contact me privately or create thread

I am sorry bro, you can't lecture me on Islam. I have over 200 videos made by Muslims and non-muslims on your religion. I have videos of Dr. Zakir Naik, Shabir Ali, Joseph Smith, David Wood, Sam Shamoun, Raymond Ibrahim, Anjem Choudary, Bridget Gabriel, Wafa Sultan, etc. I watched their videos, compare their arguments before I reached my conclusion that Islam is a politico-religious movement used by the Arabs to conquer the world. You don't have to believe what I say.

You asked if Mohammed killed anybody unjustly, my answer is 'yes'. Read the biography of Mohammed by ibn Ishaq pages 514 to 518, I have the PDF doc on my laptop, and see things for yourself. This summarized the genocide Mohammed carried out against the people of khaiber, took their property as a war booty (read Allah's instruction in Quran chapter 8 on this), killed Khinana, the husband of safiyya, before sleeping with her. This incident was also recorded in the hadith. Note that one of the sahabas, called Dhiya, already took safiyya as his sex slave before Mohammed took it from him in exchange of seven slaves (sunnah Ibn majjah hadith number 2272).

Mohammed also instigated Muslims to attack anyone who is not a Muslim in Quran 9:29 and also threatened to attack all people and their property except they believe in allahh and him, as the prophet of allahh (sahih Bukhari 4:52:196).

Again bro, you can't lecture me Islam. You will only lie to me.

smallrincowis16:
that is the different between islam and Christianit, you have to get evidences in islam before doing anything.
where did you even get the account that Jesus read Torah? pls expatiate your words

Seems you have little or no understanding of Christianity; I will assist you. Read the Bible verses below:

Luke 4:16-21
16 - And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
17 - And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18 - The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 - To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20 - And he closed the book, and he gave [it] again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21 - And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.


Take note of three key words:

1) Custom: That is the Jewish custom (not Arabian or Islamic custom) which Jesus observed since Jesus was both a religious and ethnic Jew.

2) Synagogue: Jesus prayed and read the Torah (from the book of Isaiah) in the Jewish synagogue (not a mosque because mosques are the inventions of Mohammed and never existed at the time of Jesus).

3) Sabbath: This is the resting day for the Jews and they go to their synagogues (not mosques ) to observe the Sabbath.

I hope you are cleared now that Jesus has nothing to do with the Arab pagan religion of Islam.

smallrincowis16:
that is the different between islam and Christianit, you have to get evidences in islam before doing anything.
where did you even get the account that Jesus read Torah? pls expatiate your words

Seems you have little or no understanding of Christianity; I will assist you. Read the Bible verses below:

Luke 4:16-21
16 - And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
17 - And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18 - The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 - To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20 - And he closed the book, and he gave [it] again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21 - And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.


Take note of three key words:

Custom: The

smallrincowis16:
ITS ONLY IN BIBLE THAT EVERY PROPHET IS TAINTED IN ONE WAY OR THE OTHER . BUT IN ISLAM WE HOLD EVERY PROPHET IN HIGH ESTEEM. THE ACCOUNT I QUOTED IN BIBLE IS JUST TO POINT DISSILLUTION IN IT.
prophet S.A.W never transgressed. those he married was as a result of death of their husband and being the leader he must tako care of them. not even even one of them did he slept with &also he didn't have any concubine, all he did were legislated

The Bible is not an altaqiyya material that hides the truth. If any prophet did wrong, the bible will point it out so that we can learn from their mistake and avoid making the same mistake. Prophets are also human prone to errors.

Some of the widows Mohammed married are either the widows of men Mohammed killed in battle, eg safiyya in khaiber, or the widow of his sahabas who dies in battle. Most of the widow Mohammed married died in battles led and executed by Mohammed himself.

And again, in Quran 33:37-50, allahh already sanctioned Mohammed to marry any believing woman he wants without restrictions. While allahh asked Muslims to marry a maximum of 4 wives, Mohammed can marry 20 women if he likes. allahh seems to give Mohammed special treatment above all other Muslims.

smallrincowis16:
did you belief in QURAAN THE PROPHET SINCE WARAQA A JEW BELIEF IN HIM?

I don't believe in Mohammed, even when Barack Obama, a fake Christian, adore and respected Mohammed because he was instrumental to signing of gay law in the US. I view Waraqa the way I view Barack Obama because both are ignorant Jew (waraqa) and lying and ignorant Christian (Obama is actually a Muslim in Christian clothing).

You will agree with me that Mohammed never knew he was a prophet until waraqa, after hearing (from Khadijah, his niece) how Mohammed met an entity who called him Gabriel, in a cave at hira. This same entity, the so-called Jibril, also terrified and choked Mohammed before allegedly giving him the so-called revelation (read the biography of Mohammed by Ibn Ishaq and the al-tabari and see the truth).

smallrincowis16:
yes now, who give the purpose word of GOD name? no whose authority and why?
is bible ever known to JESUS P.B.H

You sound funny. Did Jesus read from the Torah, in the synagogue (not mosque because Jesus was both an ethnic and religious Jew and not a Muslim as you are lied to by your imam and sheik) or not? Where did Jesus see the Torah he read in the Jewish synagogue?

smallrincowis16:
thats what made islam the only sure religion.
During the time of prophet S.A.W there are elements of truth in the books then. even they were correct and not corrupted by some of their monks. that was why the prophet was QUICKLY identified by jews then.
also, to get the point straight there is no single verse in QURAAN that contradicts itself, if you're sure of any bring it
the books sent to the past prophet are of course authentic but the problem was after the demise of isrealite's prophet they change or follow their desires

Solve this puzzle first, numerical discrepancies in the koran:

Does Allah's day equal to 1,000 human years (Sura 22:47, 32:5) or 50,000 human years (Sura 70:4)?

According to Sura 56:7 there will be THREE distinct groups of people at the Last Judgement, but 90:18-19, 99:6-8, etc. mention only TWO groups.

There are conflicting views on who takes the souls at death: THE Angel of Death [32:11], THE angels (plural) [47:27] but also "It is Allah that takes the souls (of men) at death." [39:42]

Angels have 2, 3, or 4 pairs of wings [35:1]; but Gabriel had 600 wings. [Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 455]

Since the Quran is never independent of the hadith, should I include thousands of contradictions and superstition in the hadith?

smallrincowis16:
your wordings are full of fallacies.
there are so many verses in the QURAAN even in history that proof to the messangership of the prophet S.A.W.
for your information there is no single verse in QURAAN that point to indescriminate killings of innocent lives.
islam is the only religion that gives everything its right

Here you go again, altaqiyya merchant.

The Koran advised aggression against non-muslims (Qur'an 2:171-172, Quran 9:29-30, Quran 9:5, Quran 8:39, and hundreds other verses ) while the hadith is the narrations of the execution of the Quranic 'revelation'. See sample below:

Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror, and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand." Abu Huraira added: Allah's Apostle has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures (sahih Bukhari 4:52:220)

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' and whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)". sahih Bukhari 4:52:196.

The instruction above can only be given by a Mafia leader.

smallrincowis16:
lolsssssssssssss.
i'm bewildered. when we say something is corrupt does that means the thing in its entirety is useless. please read the verses i quoted above. you get to undertand better. QURAN emphasizes it that during the time of prophet S.A.W the truth of the past books were still much avialable but the jews and christian were either changing its judgement or refusing to follow it

You said Waraqa Bin Nawal translated the new testament into Arabic, where is the copy, which library can I find it?

smallrincowis16:
very very sure of it. as in surest

Where you there when the Koran was compiled, or were you told? What are your indisputable evidences?

smallrincowis16:
ALLAH kills and bring one to life

The question is how did Mohammed die? The evidence is in your hadith. He was poisoned by a Jewish woman at khaiber after Mohammed and his bandit killed her people. See the hadith below:

Bukhari's Hadith 5.713:
Narrated 'Aisha:
The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, "O 'Aisha! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison."

The Koran told us how Mohammed will die if he is a fake and false prophet:

Qur’an 69:44-46 —And if he (Muhammad) had forged a false saying concerning Us We surely should have seized him by his right hand (or with power and might), and then certainly should have cut off his life artery (Aorta). (Hilali-Khan)

Qur’an 69:44-46 —And if he had invented false sayings concerning Us, We assuredly had taken him by the right hand and then severed his life-artery. (Pickthall)

The tasfir of Islamic scholars on how Mohammed died:

Tafsir Jalalayn on Qur’an 69:44-46 —And had he, namely, the Prophet (s), fabricated any lies against Us, by communicating from Us that which We have not said, We would have assuredly seized him, We would have exacted vengeance [against him], as punishment, by the Right Hand, by [Our] strength and power; then We would have assuredly severed his life-artery, the aorta of the heart, a vein that connects with it, and which if severed results in that person’s death.

Tafsir Ibn Kathir on Qur’an 69:46 —(And then We certainly would have cut off Al-Watin from him,) Ibn ‘Abbas said, “It (Al-Watin) refers to the artery of the heart, and it is the vein that is attached to the heart.” This has also been said by ‘Ikrimah, Sa’id bin Jubayr, Al-Hakim, Qatadah, Ad-Dahhak, Muslim Al-Batin and Abu Sakhr Humayd bin Ziyad.

So going by the Koran and the hadith, Mohammed died of food poison. No prophet had died of food poison except the fake prophet Mohammed.

The Quran prophesied it and the hadith narrated it.

smallrincowis16:
the prophet S.A.W and compiled by the students.
note the prophet had said that anything his companion do together is part of the religion

Sorry bro, the Koran pre-dates Mohammed and was never the word or work of any allahh.

www.breitbart.com/london/2015/08/31/oldest-koran-destabilises-islamic-history-carbon-dating-says-it-pre-dates-mohammed/

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3216627/Koran-Birmingham-thought-oldest-world-predate-Prophet-Muhammad-scholars-say.html

If we go with archaeological and scientific evidence, which you depended so much on, we can firmly conclude that the Koran has nothing to do with Mohammed.

However, going by Islamic claims, the Qur'an is still not the word or work of any allahh. The current version of the Koran was standardized and approved for global use in 1924 at alzar university Cairo, in Egypt, the oldest and the most important school in the Muslim world. All the earlier Quranic manuscript contradicted each other hence the recent standardization. Can you show we Nigerians the oldest manuscript of the Quran? Do you have any? From where do you then get the Quran if we cannot verify the source of the current koran circulation?

Again going by Islamic narrative, you guys said the sahabas memorized the Koran before each 'memorizer' wrote down what he memorized so that the Koran can be compiled, this is BS, to any reasonable person. How can an oral transmission serve as a basis for authenticating the original source of a document since oral transmission change from time to time, in its content? Guy you Koran is never divine and can never be divine going by how we come about the current koran in circulation.

Demmzy15:
Flatheaaded drug peddling monster, this issue as been explained to you. So don't think you can drag me into a futile argument. I know for you to post this, you must have been pained by the truth!

Deal with it bro, you have nothing to explain. Your prophet is a criminal as indicated in the hadith I provided. I am not the one that wrote the hadith.

plainbibletruth:
Any Muslim who claims that Mohamed ONLY fought those who were fighting against him is a BIG LIAR.

Such a one is trying to create a DIFFERENT HISTORY from what records actually state.

When such a person then turns to the Bible, which he doesn't and cannot understand, to claim that the Bible - a book muslims claim has been corrupted - to justify what Mohamed did, a sane analyst immediately sees a person who wants to TWIST issues all in a bid to 'prove' a point.

It is clear from history that Mohamed went on wars of conquest. And no one should try to trick others into believing otherwise. Mohamed deliberately targeted people to subjugate them to islam. In fact the spread of islam was largely due to this.

From north Africa to west Africa to Asia, the historical FACTS of Islamic UNWARRANTED attacks is recorded very clearly in literature upon literature.

Anyone who is taken in by the PROPAGANDA that islam has been or has somehow turned into a religion of peace either DOES NOT KNOW HISTORY or know the quran and other Islamic books which DRIVE the muslim mind.

Those who propagate such Lies - like Demmzy - are DECEIVERS, LIARS and DOUBLE-FACED foot soldiers of those who do not really want peace but conquest at all cost.

Demmzy is never able to CLEARLY or DIRECTLY answer questions - never! I challenge him to address my posts in this thread if he claims otherwise.

These hadith below summarized the criminal intents of Mohammed:

Sahih Muslim – Book 1, Hadith 31 & 33:
It has been narrated on the authority of Abdullah b. ‘Umar that the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.

Sahih Bukhari – Volume 4, Book 52, Hadith 196:
Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah’s Apostle said, ” I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ and whoever says, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)”

Sahih Bukhari – Volume 52, Book 4, Hadith 220:
Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah’s Apostle said, “I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand.” Abu Huraira added: Allah’s Apostle has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures (i.e. the Prophet did not benefit by them).

Demmzy15:
Lmao He preached to them and some of them accepted. He executed their warriors after they betrayed the Muslims and allied with the enemies which would have caused the annihilation of the whole Muslims if they succeeded. The bible gave a punishment for that and it was categorically followed!

You don't know more than Mohammed. See what your Mafia and criminal prophet said:

Sahih Muslim – Book 1, Hadith 31 & 33:

It has been narrated on the authority of Abdullah b. ‘Umar that the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.

Sahih Bukhari – Volume 4, Book 52, Hadith 196:

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah’s Apostle said, ” I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ and whoever says, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)”


Sahih Bukhari – Volume 52, Book 4, Hadith 220:

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah’s Apostle said, “I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror, and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand.” Abu Huraira added: Allah’s Apostle has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures (i.e. the Prophet did not benefit by them).

Pastafarian:
ha!

see loads of nonsense and strawman with so much aggressiveness; your campaign against Islam has turned you to something worse that you can't see the forest for trees

"church" I was referring to is the gathering of Christians not physical buildings, they allow it they just don't want you doing it publicly; that's why I made mention of Vatican city; show me a mosque in Vatican city

the problem humans generally have is that we always rely on the news 100% which is usually given to us with agenda in mind, this leads to painting certain places the way they want people to see it; you read extreme exaggerations of events and swallow it hook line and sinker BECAUSE you desperately want to believe its so

I have a Christian friend who WORKS in Saudi Arabia so I know what I'm talking about first hand and not some Google of anti Islamic blogs things people do; I learn about the country from the horse's mouth and he told me they're allowed to gather in privacy

You're allowed to bring bible into Saudi Arabia for your Personal use, you're allowed to walk holding it, you're allowed to read it (not read it out)

However, importing a quantity of bibles with the intent of converting Muslims away from Islam is against the law and may warrant harsh penalties; going about preaching any other religion is totally illegal

as for crucifix, I don't know but its safe to say you're totally wrong about that too since you failed woefully in the bible part; I'll ask him when we communicate next

like I said, you're allowed to gather and pray to your god but you need to make it as private as possible and you can't build cathedrals and buildings meant for other religions

and my point about Ahammadiyya is still valid! they're not even allowed into the country; they're more persecuted than Christians and that's a fact!



let me reiterate that I got these information firsthand

A typical Muslim denying his faith to appear 'neutral' in public space but spend his energy attacking Christianity while defending Islam. You are not the first person nor the last to engage in this 'business'.

As at 1920, the Vatican was part and parcel of Rome but attain autonomy (inside the city of Rome) in order to avoid the conflict of interest between the Italian govt and the Catholic church. The Vatican city is roughly the size of Lagos island, here in Nigeria and 100% church buildings and church offices where catholic churches are controlled worldwide.

Saudi Arabia is a county roughly as big as Nigeria with no single church. Historically, Christianity was in Saudi Arabia before Islam. Mohammed and his bandits expelled the Jews and Christians from Saudi Arabia (I can provide the hadith that sanctioned this religious cleansing action).

And your argument that Saudi Arabia allowed private Christian worship is an attempt by you to legitimize injustice and evil, which an average Arab-muslim is known for and they justified their actions using the Koran and the hadith. And fya, since Saudi Arabia do not allow a single church building, why do they spend billion of dollars for the construction of mosques in non-muslim lands? You will criminally spin it as usual.