₦airaland Forum

mbaemeka: I understand everything you are trying to say but you still do not understand me so I implore you to meditate on ...........
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Jesus the man was a separate entity from who he used to be- the word which was inseparable from his father. That word of GOD impregnated a woman who gave ......
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It would appear that you believe that the humanity of Christ was[b] JUST AN ORDINARY MAN[/b] like any one of us; that it was not until after the cross did he became the God-man. What you are saying is that Colossians 2:9 was after the cross - "For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,"; that 1 Timothy 3:16 was after the cross. What do you make of Philippians 2:6 - 7: "6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7 but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men."
Jesus EXISTED eternally as God (John 1). But when he became man he CHOSE to restrict the use of his divine attributes to fall in line with the plan for the incarnation. John says "He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him." He went on to say "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth." The Word who made the world became flesh and dwelt among us as Jesus. If we are to believe this John passage the Jesus that walked the earth made the world. His glory WAS seen as he dwelt among men as of the only Son from the Father. Now look at John 17:5 : "And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed."
The man Jesus KNEW he IS God. He existed eternally but had to take on true humanity, restrict (not abandon) the functioning under his deity during this period to align with the plan for mankind's salvation and thereafter going on to be the unique person of the universe (Philippians 2:9). 

If like you said, "Jesus the man was a SEPARATE ENTITY from who he used to be" then you are saying that either:
1) He CHANGED from being who he was which means the other person he was ceased to exist or
2) There are 2 SEPARATE beings, one the WORD and the other Jesus. 
Nothing in scripture supports this. 
The Holy Spirit was the agent of the conception of Mary not the Word - Luke 1: 35   "And the angel answered her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy-the Son of God.". Unique conception, unique-born one. 

Coming to the second part of that your statement - If he was born of God and therefore the Son of God and therefore God that means he is UNIQUELY DIFFERENT from the rest of us. This is what I've been saying all along. His not functioning as God while here on earth does not make his essential nature the same as ours. Like I said as God and man in ONE PERSON he chose to restrict the use of his deity because there was a plan. Jesus KNEW who he was - "Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he had come from God and was going back to God," (John 13: 3). 

We must derive our positions from putting scripture with scripture. When in referring to the Philippians passage you said "This clearly shows that Jesus' name wasn't ALWAYS THE NAME ABOVE EVERY NAME" were you referring to his humanity or deity? Did he have a glory with the Father before the incarnation? 

In his humanity Christ was free from the devil's rulership and from the influence of the old sin nature. That is UNIQUENESS. 2 Peter 1:16-17 referenced the transfiguration. 

In Jesus God was not just shifting state like water from liquid to solid to gas and back. The man Jesus was still GOD. He only RESTRICTED the use of his divine attributes. 

And so as he went about fulfilling the script as it were for mankind's salvation Jesus could decide to heal. He DID NOT go about asking for the sick to be brought to him for him to heal them. He only did as was necessary. His central message was like John the Baptist had proclaimed - 'Behold the lamb of God who TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD'

Healings and miracles for man were incidental to that central message. If he healed all and they still refused him as the Messiah, they will end up in hell. Physical healing on earth would then be inconsequential. 

The core mandate for the Christian today is 'Go into all the world and preach the gospel'. The emphasis should be on that which will guarantee man's eternal destiny with God; not on that which will last only for the here and now. 

Healings then should not be given the prominence over the salvation message as HEALING SCHOOLS have become. They don't even begin to address man's most important needs.

[mbaemeka]

You bet it. I have been on NL longer than most of you and I don't have as many posts as some because I am not on every thread saying things that I haven't properly studied-something most of you are guilty of though some more than others.

Oga, I agreed in the previous exchange that Jesus was 100 percent man and 100 percent God while on earth. I said he functioned ONLY as a man while on earth while he made "God-like" claims.

Jesus knew he was God but he let himself be subject to principles and systems of men- he humbled himself that way.

Nobody can belittle Jesus- even if they tried. Jesus is the Christ and Lord and I believe there is a general consensus on that matter but the baby in the manger was not yet the savior even if he was appointed unto that. The bible says the young boy Jesus grew in wisdom. Tell me, will God need to grow in wisdom? Is God not the very essence of wisdom? When I compared Jesus to a child prodigy I was indirectly telling you who he was as a boy- a prodigy. That God made him so wasn't by chance but linking it to his divinity is wrong and that's what I challenged.

And yes, Jesus did no miracle till he was 30. The bible says so and tells us why- the Holy Spirit, the author of the miracles hadn't come upon him.
This was after he had been baptized. Until his baptism, even Satan did not know who he was that's why he made random attempts to kill him as a child.

Jesus, the son of Man had no sin nature I agree. But this is not what made him perform miracles- the Holy Spirit's presence in him was. The uniqueness of Jesus as a class of his own was that like Adam he represented mankind. Whatever happened to him would affect the rest of us who are born after him like it affected us since we were born after the first Adam. That's why Jesus was a class of his own- nothing else.

He grew in wisdom, he grew in faith, he grew in knowledge, he grew in stature, his miracles kept growing greater etc. He didn't prove himself to be anything but a supremely intelligent young kid at age 12. His divinity was yet to be manifest till he died and resurrected. Until then, he made claims to it but never manifested it till his death. When he resurrected, Thomas called him Lord and God not just the "son of God".

Jesus gave instructions to his then disciples to go in 2's healing the sick and preaching about the kingdom. They didn't go around and expect sick people to just come to them spontaneously- they were sent to go out and heal them while teaching. Besides, Jesus read Isaiah's prophecy and told everyone in the synagogue that the prophecy was fulfilled by his presence. He was basically asking the sick, blind, lame etc to come to him. they didn't just randomly come. So the fact that "Healing Ministers" today have schools for it doesn't make them wrong. They are bringing organization to it just like we have Televangelists today. I must not go about on foot to preach, I could do it via the internet or with a vehicle etc.

Did you notice Jesus asked the Demon never to enter the boy again? Why do you think he said so? because the demon could enter again and make the boy deaf and dumb as well as epileptic. That's why someone can lose their healing- Jesus is saying so again but if you have no experiences in casting out demons or praying for the sick, you would not know.

Now please show me where scriptures that states that no one lost their healings or that the healings were irreversible, I ask for the umpteenth time?

When you say:
“I said he functioned ONLY as a man while on earth while he made “God-like” claims.”
I hope you are clear on the meaning. Jesus during his ministry KNEW THAT HE WAS (not that he will be) the God-man. The claims he made were made because he was what those claims were, NOT what they will be. So when for instance:
“Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am” John 8: 58 he was stating his divinity. The people clearly understood him and their reaction showed it:
“So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple” (v.59).
His claims were as true as they can be. If he said ‘I’m a man’ that was true. If in his humanity he said ‘ I am God’ that was equally true. In other words, he did not become God after the cross. He was the God-man during his entire life on earth. When he talked about being about his father’s business or “in my father’s house” in response to the mother of his humanity at age 12 what did he mean? Was he speaking just like any man would speak of God as father or was it that he knew as at then (age 12) the unique relationship between himself and God the Father? Recall that the scripture records that when he made that statement they did not understand what he said.

I can go on and on with this but I think it should be clear he was not just making “God-like claims” he was who he said he was. The Jesus who said ‘I am’ was laying claim to his deity BEFORE the cross and resurrection. I will say that in his humanity he functioned as far as the divine plan for the INCARNATION required.

Jesus was not just any man who, because he was able to live sin-free life, “qualified” TO BE the savior. That UNIQUELY BORN one was set out to be the savior from day one. In Luke 2: 11 we have: “For unto you is born in the city of David a savior, who is Christ the Lord.” I guess you can see from your English language it didn’t say ‘who will be’.
That is why I queried your statement that: “Jesus could do no single miracle till he received the Holy Spirit at age 30. Until then any attribute of his divinity like his prodigious wisdom at age 12 were purely coincidental.” And I then said: COINCIDENCE? So to you the workings of God in Jesus were just a matter of chance.

At age 12 you can see a SPIRITUAL INSIGHT that was unprecedented. When worshiped he accepted it – something elect angels will refuse. At the transfiguration he showed his disciples a glimpse of his deity. All these go on to show that the ‘MAN’ Jesus was in a class of his own. For a person like this, he was FULLY prepared when he started his ministry to handle all that it would take.

Jesus did not, like you said, “let himself be subject to principles and systems of men” if that were so he would have followed the ‘establishment’ of his day. What he did was that HE VOLUNTARILY RESTRICTED the independent use of his deity during his ministry here on earth.

Even if Satan knew who Jesus was before the start of his public ministry, the omnipotence of God would still work to restrict him. (See Luke 4: 28-30).
Satan is only a created being and is still subject to the Creator. Even when he was visibly presented as the Savior the genius of Satan could still not get things right to ensure his (Satan’s) success.

Just a short one on the sin nature – the sin nature has a way it has affected everyone born with it (the book of Romans & others). Therefore anyone born WITHOUT it will be uniquely different from the rest of humanity – physically, mentally, etc. That is why I made the assertion that HE IS IN A CLASS OF HIS OWN. No human being was born like him. No one was born WITHOUT the sin nature. His humanity was of a nature that no other person born of a woman is like in that respect.

You said Jesus “was basically asking the sick, blind, lame etc to come to him. they didn’t just randomly come. So the fact that “Healing Ministers” today have schools for it doesn’t make them wrong”
I DO NOT SEE this in scripture. Jesus presented himself as the Messiah. His core issue was that. And that meant he came to resolve mankind’s sin problem. Miracles came only as a part of the major assignment. If in the course of his ministry people needed to be healed he did so. His focus was not on healing for healing sake. He never asked that those needing healing be first assembled and taught, NOT ABOUT HIMSELF, but about how to grow their ‘faith’ before he healed them. He healed even those who were not present with him. It will therefore be out of place to use his healings to justify setting up of healing schools today.

To your issue:
“Now please show me where in scriptures that states that no one lost their healings or that the healings were irreversible, I ask for the umpteenth time?”
I say this – because the scripture shows that no one Jesus healed lost his healing I take it that that was it.

The Biblical mandate is for us to go and preach the gospel. If in the course of it we pray for the sick and they are healed thank God for that. But there is NO biblical authorization to set up any institution or whatever for the purpose of healing; which by the way does not even begin to address man’s greatest needs.

mbaemeka: William James Sidis could talk at 2 months and before he was 7 had taught himself 2 Languages. 9 he attained the best entrance score for Harvard but was turned down because of His age. Got a position in Rice University as a visiting professor aged 11 and was confounding Mathematics Professors in Harvard with 4th dimensional concepts same age and time. Hope you catch my drift- even he was an ordinary man like you.

Jesus could do no single miracle till he received the Holy Spirit at age 30. Until then any attributes of divinity like his prodigious wisdom at age 12 were purely coincidental.



The only reason for his not possessing the sin nature according to scripture was because he was going to be the sin-sacrifice and the sin-sacrifice capable of saving the world had to have sinless blood. That's why he was conceived by the Holy Spirit.



Jesus functioned 100 percent as a man. He did so to show that what he could do,



Thrash! Before the case of the demoniac in Chapter 5 that you made reference to look at


Answer one question for once. Between raising Lazarus from the dead or resurrecting himself which was

Do you people study at all?


What rubbish is this? Look at Mark's account


Stop making disingenuous claims.


Don't speak when you don't know or have not properly researched

You say there is no record of anyone that Jesus healed losing their healing? Well there is no record that they all remained healed or didn't

I have in the past pointed out your attitude which to say the least is VERY NEGATIVE. You actually attach your faults on others and blame them for it. You THINK you ALWAYS have a superior argument. This is expressed by your OBSESSION to fire back at every comment against your position. You will do so with this my post. 

Have you ever heard of the Hypostatic union? Simply put it the teaching that Jesus Christ was BOTH undiminished deity and true humanity IN ONE person for ever. While he was on earth he was what I just described above. Now is there ANY other human being that can be described in the same way? Maybe you guys know. I would say NO ONE. 

When you therefore belittle the UNIQUENESS of Jesus Christ one wonders which Christ you believe.  When the angel announced in Luke 2: 11-:For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord." was that baby in a manger the savior and Christ the Lord or just like any other human being? What sustained his humanity from there till and then through his public ministry? His human will-power? According to you it had to be because you NOT ONLY compared him with a prodigy you claim "Jesus could do no single miracle till he received the Holy Spirit at age 30. Until then any attributes of divinity like his prodigious wisdom at age 12 were purely coincidental." COINCIDENCE? So to you the workings of God in Jesus were just a matter of CHANCE. 

I want to ASSUME you agree he had[b] NO SIN NATURE[/b]. If for that FACT alone he still in your estimation DOES NOT qualify to be in a class of his own then I wonder what you guys are thinking. Except like I said you just want to 'puncture' every 'opponent' points whether good or bad. 

So you sincerely think that as at the time he started his ministry he still had TO GROW HIS FAITH [/b]that is why his miracles [b]KEPT IMPROVIN[/b]G? In spite of what he proved himself to be at 12 years? 

Did Jesus [b]SOLICIT for people to be brought to him in order for him to perform miracles? The answer is No. That is what is meant by the fact that Jesus' miracles WERE NOT formally arranged. That people brought the sick to him in droves or individually DOES NOT remove from the fact that he DID NOT set up a healing school OR even set apart specific times in his day or week solely for miracle working. They just come in the ordinary course of his business. 

So check this out again: 
Jesus’ miracles were not formally arranged. It did not take those healed days or weeks to be healed as a result of their needing to increase their faith to be healed. There is no record that anyone he healed came back to say he ‘lost’ his healing for any reason.

If we come to an account as this:
14 Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, “See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you.”
The question should be 'What is SOMETHING GREATER that can happen to this man? Greater sickness or what?

Still on this issue of 'greater', when Jesus said greater works what did he mean? Are we to look at 'works' from the perspective of miracles alone? Can any single man since Christ claim that he alone has done greater works than Christ did? So how is that verse to be understood?

So,
What percentage of those who come to the healing school eventually get healed? 
How much do the procedure for healing there line up with what we have in the New Testament? 

mbaemeka: Could in English expresses ability. If the scripture says Jesus could do no mighty works, it simply means his ability was limited in that regard and the next verse clearly shows why- the "Unbelief" of the people in Nazareth (his hometown) marvelled him. The scriptures didn't say Jesus didn't do or wouldn't do (which would have meant his willingness) it said he couldn't do. Stop arguing with the scriptures. That's unbelief.

His remedy to the Unbelief was to begin teaching them.


That's the order again- 1) Teaching 2) Preaching 3)Healing.

The changing of water to wine is described as a sign and not a healing miracle and there is a difference. If you study them you would see it. So let us not convolute them again.


I know a lot of you that say some of these things don't really understand Jesus or what he stood for. Jesus functioned on earth as a man even though he was the son of God and therefore God himself. Everything Jesus did he did as a man. He had to grow his faith; learn patience; be subject to temptation; be taught; be baptized etc. If he by-passed all these steps his title as "Son of Man" would have been flawed. Satan would have been right in claiming that God cheated because like Adam, Jesus had to be a "mere" man to face and then defeat satan.



The bible says Jesus did no sin and not that he could not sin. Even though he didn't have a sin nature, he could still sin if he succumbed to the temptation of the devil.


Jesus was made perfect through his challenges. He wasn't made perfect by birth or inheritance. He had to become perfect even though he was in reality God. That's why Paul said he was humble. He let himself grow his faith like a man; get hungry like a man; even die like a man- yet he was God.


If you study the quality of his miracles from when his ministry commenced to when he died- the miracles kept improving. God by the Holy Spirit was increasing the quality of the miracles for him. That's suggestive of a growing faith. Jairus' daughter had just died, the widow of Nain's son had died hours before, Lazarus had died for days, then Jesus raised himself.


So have all these in perspective when you talk about the "man" Jesus.


If he changed his mind about the ministry in May as documented and declared by his post's he cannot at the same point be talking about how dumb people would be to suggest that the people that got healed were paid to act that way and then later claim he made up his mind 6 months later when he visited the HS only once 6 months before. Even at that he didn't take his own advice to investigate any person including the "big names" that got healed there and are still healed ATM.

Feel free to make it add up to yourself. Nobody can fool me with such inconsistencies.


Other people said Jesus was deceiving the people. They also accused him of using demonic powers. Not everyone accepted that Jesus was from God. They accused Paul too of being the same. The scriptures don't lie only humans do.



Prove it from scripture.



I have been quoting the NT and I have more to quote. You haven't answered a single question neither have you posted a single scripture. I am being kind to you because you sometimes attempt to discuss the scriptures. Show us what you believe from scripture. That's a good way to start.

Note what I said: at the time Jesus started his public ministry HE WAS FULLY prepared for it. Recall that at the age of 12 he already matched the religious leaders of the day with his knowledge and understanding of scripture. Luke 2: 42 – 47: “And when he was twelve years old, they went up according to custom. And when the feast was ended, as they were returning, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem. His parents did not know it, but supposing him to be in the group they went a day’s journey, but then they began to search for him among their relatives and acquaintances, and when they did not find him, they returned to Jerusalem, searching for him. After three days they found him in the temple, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. And all who heard him were amazed at his understanding and his answers.” Note what he was able to do at age 12 and imagine what he would have become at the start of his ministry.

The fact that he DID NOT POSSESS the sin nature meant amongst other things that his physical as well as mental and other capacities were untainted in any way.

So I reiterate: Jesus was in a class of his own. Therefore HE DID NOT NEED TO GROW HIS FAITH in order to see that his miracles keep improving.

Note also that before this incident here at Nazareth he had healed various diseases including demon possession. So there is no basis to claim that the quality of his miracle kept IMPROVING or that, like you claim, as a result “That’s suggestive of a growing faith”. That would be your own interpretation of the events.

If by ‘quality’ you mean the degree of excellence, then the issue would be to first rank miracles in order of difficulty and then begin to see if Jesus did the easiest ones earlier in his ministry and then progressively did the harder ones. I see no basis for this in scripture.

Did Jesus’ non-performance of much miracle at Nazareth stem from his response to their lack of faith in him to perform miracles or rejection of him as the Messiah? I think the more obvious answer is the latter.

Jesus’ miracles were not formally arranged. It did not take those healed days or weeks to be healed as a result of their needing to increase their faith to be healed. There is no record that anyone he healed came back to say he ‘lost’ his healing for any reason.

Gombs: Can you explain 1 John 4:17 for me? Why did Jesus say we shall do greater things than He did? Why did the Bible call him the first begotten of the father after His resurrection Rev 1:5, for He was termed as the ONLY begotten of the Father before His death as in John 1:14

If He's the first begotten, shey it means there are many others after Him, no?

Let's not lose focus on the main issue - Jesus HAD THE INHERENT ABILITY TO HEAL anyone WITHOUT first teaching.  

1 John 4: 17 is simply telling us that Christians represent Christ here on earth. How? As part of our ambassadorship. 
Christ is the first begotten. And we? 1 John 3: 2&3: "2 Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.
3 And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.

We are and will always be accepted IN BELOVED. We don't stand on our own merits. 

Again to get back; Jesus Christ is UNIQUE - remember the Israelites shama -  'Hear oh Israel' ? It was a pointer to this uniqueness of Jesus. 

His ministry, including his healings, was unique therefore for any man to EQUATE himself with Jesus is blasphemous. 

That is why I stated that it was impossible for it (his power to do miracles) to be lessened because of unbelief or lack of faith. When he chose not to do miracles it was an act of his will. Jesus was in a class of his own.

Gombs: It's like you want to out do Drummaboy in teaching lies. The emphasis on DID NOT is a terrible form of your shallow knowledge of Scripture
......... .........

Let me not go into the rest, for sake of not looking like I'm bullying you...but bro, you don't really know scripture. Yet, you lot are the 'true gospel' preachers

Now you're coming out to truly show yourself as one who sets out to 'bully' others. Well done!

Because the WoF advocates deify man they find it easy to put Jesus Christ in the same mould as themselves. It is therefore easy for them to look at him from their own perspective. 
The Christian cannot equate himself with Jesus. 
See: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/4#24527108

Note again what I have mentioned previously:
By proclaiming ourselves to be "little gods" we try to place ourselves on the same level with God. Without doubt, this is the very height of arrogance and is nothing more than self-worship and self-glorification.

 The only person who can be termed to be in the God Class is the Lord Jesus Christ who is described in the book of Hebrews as being “the exact representation of his being” or “express image of his (God’s) person” – Hebrews 1:3.

Therefore Jesus HAD THE INHERENT ABILITY TO HEAL anyone WITHOUT first teaching. 
When he healed a man with a demon in Mark 5: 1-20 what TEACHING did he do before the healing? Going on from there in the same Mark 5 when he got to the house of a ruler of the synagogue to heal/resuscitate his daughter could he TEACH the dead before performing the miracle? And he still performed the miracle in spite of the people's reaction - "40[b] [size=14pt]And they laughed at him. But[/size] [/b]he put them all outside and took the child's father and mother and those who were with him and went in where the child was.
41 Taking her by the hand he said to her, "Talitha cumi," which means, "Little girl, I say to you, arise."
42 And immediately the girl got up and began walking (for she was twelve years of age), and they were immediately overcome with amazement.
Now if you tell me it's perhaps because the parents of the girl had faith that is why Jesus WAS ABLE to raise the girl from the dead then I'll ask you why your 'MoG''s faith alone is not able to work on those who had little or no faith.
So do you see now that Jesus DID NOT need to teach first before he could heal?

mbaemeka: With all their "several people noticed" "many people said" one would have thought that as the thread was taken to the front page we would see the "many people" that have gone there and noticed the same things. But what do we see? Children here and there and a few adults that don't read their bibles or are not taught anything in their respective churches.

If you truly go through these post you must be noticing things.

Jesus DID NOT need to teach first before he could heal. The story of turning water into wine and many others confirm this.

The same story confirms like many others too that Jesus expression of his healing power was NOT dependent on others. Jesus power to do miracles WAS NOT diminished by people’s unbelief or lack of faith. In fact, it was impossible for it (his power to do miracles) to be lessened because of unbelief or lack of faith. When he chose not to do miracles it was an act of his will. Jesus was in a class of his own. For starters, remember that he was born without the sin nature.

By the time Jesus started his ministry he was FULLY prepared for it. He DID NOT NEED TO GROW HIS FAITH in order to see that his miracles keep improving.
In all these, what we can see is that we cannot put Jesus in a cage when it comes to how he wants to heal.

A person can still be participating in a thing whilst he begins to have doubts about the thing. So SirJohn’s comments are actually in order since they are his reflections several months down the line of what had previously happened. So that adds up.

There’s a popular saying that goes something like this:
You can deceive SOME of the people ALL the time.
You can deceive ALL of the people SOME of the time.
But you CANNOT deceive ALL the people ALL the time.

If a man claims that the Sovereign of the universe gave you a way to heal, then it must be clear and unmistakable that He is at work.

The healings in scripture, particularly in the New Testament, had undeniable form –
They were lasting (they were complete and irreversible), verifiable even to skeptics, healings were not over a period of time, they didn’t have to be formally arranged, etc.

Why I talked of throwing open the entire healing school thing to unobstructed examination is so that then it might be clear to all whether it’s what you think or what we think it is in order to among other things answer questions such as:
What percentage of those who come to the healing school eventually get healed?
How much do the procedure for healing there line up with what we have in the New Testament?
And many more.

Joagbaje: Sorry I used that language . I got carried away . We only use such language among the mature .

1 Corinthians 2:6
Yet when I am among mature Christians I do speak with words of great wisdom. . .

My apology was not made because I was wrong but because it's offensive to babes . Jesus gave the command to do it .

Matthew 10:8
Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

Its by the power of the holyghost we minister. We do it in his name .

Again a display of arrogance.
Sorry ... ...but no sorry
Its for the mature ...
Jesus commanded it -To Claim personal victory for things?
"WE MINISTER" ... ... "WE DO IT"
Its all about me, myself and i Plus 'we' , abi?
Give God the glory brother, give God the Glory!

[quote author=mbaemeka]Many others gave theirs and it was contrary to his experience but you chose the tainted experience of one over the many others Mr. Objective.


The gift works that's why thousands and thousands have gone there and most came back with results.

I know that to you everything boils down to ‘faith’ – your definition of it. But can you CLEARLY tell me where Jesus had to first teach ON faith before healing? I know he taught, but did he have to teach ‘faith’ BEFORE HE COULD heal people? Was this His pattern?

If it’s not magic you tell me what it is. If God has given a person a gift, is that person’s expression of the gift dependent on others?

Why ask Jesus why he taught on faith before healing people? Do you think it is magic? Do you know how long the queues are or how many people come from around the world with different issues?

The teachings help some to get healed by their own faith while the one's that require "more faith" are then handled by the MOG- contrary to the lies you have been told.

Equating Jesus’ miracles with your ‘MoG’ is so pathetic. Why did Jesus do miracles?
So that people could experience their BEST LIVES then? You actually think Jesus needed to exercise “more faith” to heal that man, and that is why he re-did His healing? You think Jesus Christ could not even from a distance effect COMPLETE healing of that man? For your information, EVERYTHING Jesus did was for a purpose – everything, including healings. He healed to fulfill prophecy, to point people to Himself and even healed TO TEACH.

If a man went to the healing school, does he at least have a faith like a grain of mustard seed for him to be there? And you’re saying that some of them need ‘more faith’ than that of the grain of mustard seed to be healed, even with the faith and healing gift of the ‘MoG’ combined with theirs?

His write-up never said he made up his mind 6 months later. He is the one redressing it to balance the loophole. He kept saying "I observed this" "I discovered that" "I said O lord let this not be true" "In November 2008 he made posts saying to CE folks "I stopped doing this and that months ago" etc. So Please don't give me BS- I know what I am talking about.

That's why I asked him why he bothered staying for the next session when he had already made up his mind from the first session that it was a fraud. The stories don't add up. I have no doubt that he went to the HS, what I question is his account. If he was in CE Ojo, he ought to have seen many miracles happen by the hand of the resident Pastor during Night of bliss programmes and Vigils. I took a boy there (I had recently preached to him so I invited him for the programme) that was born with asthma and he has never used an Inhaler or nebulizer since then. I didn't even know he got healed- the boy told me this story 2 years later in 2011 and he reminded me that Pastor Sola Olubode gave a word of knowledge saying "There's a first timer here that was born with asthma, God has healed you". Is that one also stage-managed?

Unless you’re claiming that after his initial write-up SirJohn then went back to modify what he wrote then either state where “His write-up never said he made up his mind 6 months later” or show (prove) how he modified his posts – unless we are talking about different posts or thread. But I’m referring to the ones on this thread.

BTW, a person can still be participating in a thing whilst he begins to have doubts about the thing. So his comments are actually in order since they are his reflections several months down the line of what had previously happened. So that adds up.

Again let’s remind ourselves that this is a specific experience of a person that cannot be denied. If so, the onus is on you guys to prove that what he said he witnessed are false.

Also, nobody is saying that God does not heal. But we are saying that if you claim that the Sovereign of the universe gave you a way to heal, then it must be clear and unmistakable that He is at work.

Many groups and individuals claim one form of ‘power’ or the other. Some who are clearly NOT Christian claim to ‘see vision’. And some of these turn out to be true. But does the fact that such ‘visions’ turn out to be true mean that they are necessarily from God? I would say NO. Maybe you may think differently. So what do we use to ‘judge’ who’s right or wrong? My answer is – the clear teaching of the Word of God about the matter.

By the way, your application of Galatians 4: 9 is very interesting. Maybe you needed to start first with the right interpretation – what the portion is saying. That would have led to a better application.

Maybe you people should throw open the entire healing school thing to unobstructed examination. Maybe then it might be clear to all whether it’s what you think or what we think.

Gombs: It's a nice way of Saying "stop playing the victim"



You obviously are pained, hence the 'they're playing hard ball' speech, if I attempted to hurt anyone here it won't be you, you don't top my list of hypocritic band of misfits.



So you want diplomacy now? But you gotta admit na, mba has been holding an M16 rifle, and you guys, a dane gun... . If that doesn't answer your question, maybe I missed the question, can you please replay it?



Actually that your response to mba would have made the gods roar in laughter.



I don't have to, we've been having logical discussions, you know na, and whenever you decide stop peddling lies and rumour, we still will...but you knkw in this thread, since the days of John the Baptist, the kingdom of... Please complete it for me


The feeling is mutual, but I feel more for you. I don't need go to healing school to verify Chris Oyakhilome, I see miracles daily, even cell leaders and Bible study class teachers cast out devils and heal the sick, and you and your band of 'true gospel preachers' are here to convince me I've been sold a lie? I need lay hand on you...and cast somethings out



https://www.reactiongifs.com/r/omsj.gif

To Gombs 

It's like I've said, you guys don't know how to intelligently respond to arguments so you resort to derision and other underhand tactics. I'm beginning to believe it's a well organized ploy by your 'team'. 

So you are so excited about 'gods' that their laughter mean so much to you. Interesting. 

I know that you are hoping for one day when you will have 'more faith' to use 'the power of the spoken word' to make all your perceived opponents evaporate from the face of the earth. Before then i think you need the faith to: 
"Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust."
I believe you want to show yourself to be the son of your father in heaven OR do you belong to another 'father'?

Gombs:

If you are this pained, I can imagine DB's state of mind grin this thread keeps being on the top of other threads as we post, now the topic is juicy, and folk come in from the last page n see totally different ball game, and 'true gospel preachers' being slapped around

Exactly what i noted!!!
What is your "Oh, really?" supposed to say?
Who told you i'm pained? Or was that your attempt to 'hurt' me?
I said you don't honestly look at issue and then you come back with "Bible said one shall chase a thousand, two ten thousand... ..." Tell me, how does that answer my point?
I took up a specific point Mbaemeka made, and the next thing you'd come up with is:"Story for the gods..." as if that is anything near an intelligent response to the matter at hand.
I doubt if you people can handle any logical discuss. Prove me wrong.

I only feel sorry for you guys. You've been sold a lie and you've bought it.
If the issues being dealt with were not that serious one would have called you guys clowns.

Gombs, mbaemeka and other CEC members are actually trying to be be cunning.
They attempt to shift the discussion points or CHANGE TOPICS of discussion.
They attempt to use the motive of members to JUDGE their posts and reply with
their perceived Op's reason for stating what was stated.
They employ pretense of laughter or other emotions.
When they can't answer questions they find ways to throw it off.
The new resort to catchy pictures is also attempt at putting readers of the real
issues. They want to make it seem less serious than it is or inconsequential.
Even issues posted as a matter of life and death are easily turned into Mickey Mouse
affair by them.
They are not honest in looking at the argument and evidence provided by others.
No serious thoughts are given to posts of those they consider 'opponents' rather
what they immediately want to do is 'puncture' the post OR divert attention away
from the core issues to some other thing.
For example, they will prefer that this thread go in the direction of arguing over
the meaning of POWER so that at the end of the day the focus is lost.

SirJohn has again obliged us with DETAILS concerning his experience in a place
that was supposed to have AN ATMOSPHERE FOR MIRACLES.
All we see is still attempts at accusations and the like.
IF A MAN HAS THE GIFT OF MIRACLES what should it take for such a gift to be displayed?
Will it take a school to first TEACH the students how to prepare themselves for the man's
gift to be displayed?
Who is exercising the gift? The man or the expectant recipients?
Is their PRESENCE at the SCHOOL not enough FAITH that they expected to see MIRACLE?

Now, look at this:
Mbaemeka's response to SirJohn being at the healing school in May 2008 is this -
Foul sir! For the simple reason that the post you made was on the 19th of May 2008. When you had just finished watching the "charade" in the first session of the HS. I don't know why you bothered staying through till the end of the 2nd session when it was evident to you that neither you nor your "invalid" was going to see any real miracles.
Now to an objective observer of the trend, the questions that can arise are:
SirJohn himself mentioned that it was several months after the healing school
episode that he made up his mind about the things going on at the healing school.
So what is the 'FOUL' about? And what is the query on staying till the end of the 2nd session for?
Did he read the post well?
It is responses like these that make one wonder if they are actually out to see the facts of a matter
or they just want to 'fight' any perceived opponent's arguments whether it is reasonable to do so
or not.

SirJohn: So after all you said above, this was the best you could come up with... I'll respond to it shortly

I was still hoping to respond to him but I think this your own will do a better job than I would. I am yet to see a matching rebuttal to the issues you raised. Instead of resorting to ridicule or other underhand tactics what one expects was a more rational evaluation of the issues with a view to pointing out errors if any.
I look forward to your response.

mbaemeka: Expect a robust reply from me on my observations from SirJohn's account. I am not exactly chanced to do so now as I would love to.

As per on what you call 'conditional healing', if a man gets healed of say an STD by taking medicine is he allowed to go back to frolicking with women of easy virtues or is he supposed to take better care of himself by abstaining from such?

I ask this because you have this notion that because someone was healed by God's power, satan will all of a sudden leave such a one to keep living in health or do you think that if the Pharisees had acted out their plans to kill Lazarus whom Jesus raised from the dead that Lazarus would not have died simply because Jesus had already raised him back before? Please be objective.

Jairus daughter, the widow's son, Dorcas, the Guy Paul raised etc. Do you think these people still died after being raised back to life or did they just float into heaven? Where they not responsible for themselves even after being raised? Won't they have eaten well; bathed well etc. Henceforth?

It is the same principle. For instance, Jesus told a man that he had delivered of demons to be careful as the demon after roaming around and finding no place to rest would go and get more demons (wickeder than himself) to come and join him and they would go back to the man (whom he had just left). Why do you think Jesus said so?

Have you seen Frosbels take on the divinity of Jesus? Was Frosbel not once a member of Deeperlife bible Church? How come he doesn't believe in the divinity of Jesus which the Deeperlife clearly believes in? Do you think his leaving them has anything to do with his new beliefs?

That's exactly what can affect anyone who gets healed. Satan does not say congratulations and leaves you alone, no. He will look for ways to destroy your faith and he will succeed if your faith hasn't grown roots. Jesus said so. That's why we advise people to stay in the faith that got them healed in the first place and after having done my research on Kenya28 and even on other people's ministries like Benny Hinn and co, I have found out that the few who 'lost' the healing did so after going away from an environment where faith is taught profusely.

As per your question on growth, Please read Acts 11:21. That's what I was referring to as well. When I am chanced I will take SirJohn's post line by line and show you my observations.

Now, we are talking about divine healing. In the case you stated human volition is involved but in DIVINE HEALING we are talking  about God's own direct involvement. Will you say then that apart from human volitional issues such as abuse of the body that God may not SUSTAIN a healing?So if there are 'conditions' required to maintain divine healing where are they clearly specified in scripture? 

One of the characteristics of divine healing in scripture was that it was complete and irreversible. Another was its spontaneity; healings were not prearranged. In several instances personal faith was not required before healing took place; it was impossible, for example, for those who were dead to exercise any faith before they were resuscitated. 

Acts 11:21 says: "And the hand of the Lord was with them, and a great number who believed turned to the Lord." What I see here is that believers were preaching the gospel, the Lord was with them and as a result many were saved. What has this got to do with our discuss on divine healing?

mbaemeka: You believe the bible is the truth abi? Let it sell itself.



There were many rebuttals but those flew over you. Besides, I wonder what he achieved? He mixed truths with lies to make the dish palatable but I saw through his nonsense.



Will Placebo effect put a smashed femur together? Will Placebo effect make the HIV status change to negative? Will Placebo effect dematerialize cancer, unblock clogged arteries, cause a child suffering from cerebral palsy to begin to walk and act normal?

When you hear him say some were healed you assume 50 people came to the HS abi? NO, 1000s go there including ministers of other churches. The name of Jesus works man! There was a lady who came from Ghana after she had undergone chemo with no significant change after it. The MOG ministered to her but she didn't look like there was a change. He told her sons who brought her to take her back to Ghana ln that coma-like state and that after some days she will get up. Long story short, after a few days her family members thought she was dead and almost fought to get her buried but her son's objected to it. She got up like she had been sleeping. Interestingly, her hair had began regrowing (as it was bald because of the Chemo) and it grew out black hair. The son's said before her Chemo her hair was fully grey. They came back to testify with her after 2-3 years.

What type of mind of matter can do this but the power in the name of Jesus- the one you say you believe in?



He fabricated all he posted by mixing truths with lies and yes he is not a straight person. I mean, someone who only comes on NL to talk about one man and one man only is working on personal vendetta. Nothing else.



Thousands visit the HS regularly. If a man gets healed and does not walk in faith he could get re-afflicted. For the HS to be a fiasco more of the people that go there and get healed should die after getting healed than the one's who stay alive and that is not even close to the case.



What does the word of God say? That's what matters. Someone cannot get healed in an environment where they teach you how sicknesses and diseases have been taken away by God and then after getting healed you go to an environment where you are taught that "healings have ceased, God does not take away sicknesses etc" and expect to remain the same. All Christians have an adversary- the devil, who walks about looking for whom to devour. If he sees any opportunity he will take it all, so we are told to give him no place!



In the City of Ephesus, so mightily grew the word of God and prevailed!!!

My points are these:
If the healing school produce the results claimed by you guys it will sell itself. You don't need to call a critic of it a liar or try to discredit him for presenting AN INSIDER experience of it. 

SirJohn provided a video and showed what was wrong with it. He noted how many were edited. He stated specific DETAILS of the processes and procedures at the healing school. What an objective observer expects is for you guys to either come up and say 'No, you are wrong here. The video is not as you say' or 'No, we don't do this or that at the healing school'. But you have not done that. That is what I mean by NO CORRESPONDING REBUTTALS from you CE members. Simply stating that they have been given doesn't cut it. Statements such as 'ok have it your way', or the like simply do not answer anything. 

Again, can you PROVIDE SPECIFIC EVIDENCE that SirJohn fabricated all he posted by mixing truth with lies and that he is not a straight person?

Can we say then that SINCE people who get healed at the healing school CAN LOSE their healing what they get there is CONDITIONAL HEALING and not really a healing of permanent nature? Since they need to keep following some 'rules' in order to 'maintain' their healing?

Is there really a Christian or Christian group that claims LIKE YOU SAID that "healings have ceased, God does not take away sicknesses etc" ?

You didn't really answer this question:
On claims of the church is 'growing', Pastor Chris is 'going up', etc other religions, new age teachings, etc may be growing worldwide, does that mean it is sign of God's approval of them?

Your quote is about Ephesus. My question is on whether success by any group is necessarily an evidence of God's approval.

mbaemeka: SirJohn is a liar and his "9-post's-on-NL" accomplice was cut from the same stock. Please bring the other people's experiences or better still go and get your own. I can show you 1001 contradictions in the super-story of SirJohn but it will not convince you because you are blinded to truth.

The healing school has had more than 30,000 physical visitors since it started and has spread from Nigeria to SA to Canada. Nobody is charged a fee to attend and the richest of men have gone there and received healings. So what do they stand to gain in being associated with the scam that occurs there in?

Be objective and let truth rule you. Then re-read SirJohn's lies and you will see them for what they are.

As per who changed position between the claimant and the others it is easy to tell. First of all, tell me how that someone suffered HIV symptoms for 8 years and got tested 13 times in that time frame and all tested positive. Then she visits the HS and doesn't even meet with the Pastor there but somehow she just believes she is healed and then goes to get a test from a hospital that hates the man and would love to prove him a fraud yet she tests negative and lives symptom free for more than a year (without even taking her drugs). Then she disobeys the instructions she is given (she had disobeyed just after getting healed), acts otherwise, gets re-afflicted with the HIV and then comes back to blame the same people she claimed didn't heal her when she should have blamed Jesus.

In all this the "others" asked her for proof of her healing until she said she wasn't healed then they needed to proof again.

You will see that both the claimant and the others switched more positions than a contortionist will. Their testimonies cannot therefore count.

If your 'truth' about the healing school is so obvious you guys will not be fighting
this thread they way you are doing. The 'truth' will sell itself.

Like a typical WoF devotee or CE member you have failed to react to the main issue.
Clear and concise accounts of what was witnessed were presented, but no corresponding rebuttals from you CE members.

Mind you SirJohn didn’t say he does not believe in divine healing or that some who were at the healing school were not healed. Remember he mentioned the issue of the placebo effect and ‘mind over matter’?

So did he fabricate all that he posted?
Can you PROVIDE EVIDENCE that he is a 419?

Is it true that people who were proclaimed 'healed' at the healing school later died of the same ailments?

Does Pastor Chris want to have us believe that they died of unbelief or that they did not have enough faith to sustain their healing?

On claims of the church is 'growing', Pastor Chris is 'going up', etc other religions, new age teachings, etc may be growing worldwide, does that mean it is sign of God's approval of them?

mbaemeka: Bro Joagbaje and co. You guys have time o. I didn't believe people who see themselves as intellectuals will believe such poorly prepared stories ridden with contradictions.


It is funny that the people who kept calling her a liar for saying she was healed immediately believed her when she said she had lost it without asking to see any evidence.

Even Kenya28s stories of how 4 people died didn't even require this 'truth seekers' to ask for any names or contacts. They swallowed the whole thing.
....................,,,near.

You must certainly have time yourself to be here to make posts. 

SirJohn spoke giving an insider position. 
researchQ gave his personal experience. 
We have other people's experiences not related here yet. 
And what do we find you guys do? Attempt to 'fight' back and fight dirty using all kinds of underhand tactics - including repeated posting of videos hoping they will be talisman to get your blessing for being 'HIS MASTER'S VOICE', and accusing those who didn't get healed of not being able heal themselves when they were 'partners'
What you need to do is sit down and digest all these info. 
Meditate on them - you may mumble or mutter the words if you like. 
BTW, if a person was 'opposed' for claiming healing and then 'supported' for saying it was not so who shifted grounds - the claimant or the others?

Gombs: http://www.enterthehealingschool.mobi/touchapp/videos.php

For tons and tons of inspiring videos on divine healing

*I'm with my tab...more when I get on my laptop... with excerpts of each video

IS 'TESTIMONY' ENOUGH PROOF?

16 As we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a slave girl who had a spirit of divination and brought her owners much gain by fortune-telling.
17 She followed Paul and us, crying out, "These men are servants of the Most High God, who proclaim to you the way of salvation."
18 And this she kept doing for many days. Paul, having become greatly annoyed, turned and said to the spirit, "I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her." And it came out that very hour.
- Acts 16: 16-18

The story above should be quite explanatory. A young girl was giving 'testimony' about Paul and Silas. The WORDS she spoke appear
to be RIGHT. But it took Paul with the gift of discernment to know that the TRUE SOURCE was not God.
SirJohn's challenge, I believe, is still unclaimed. Those who claim they can match up to it should do so.
Many things can be 'INSPIRATIONAL' but not everything will meet Biblical scrutiny. One thing is for a thing to be 'INSPIRING' another thing is for it to be truly doctrinal.
We live in the days of VIDEO and many marketers have used it to achieve great results. But for Christian the true substance of a thing is not just how 'INSPIRING' it is. The true essence should ALWAYS be how much it lines up with the rightly divided revealed Word of God - the Bible.
A million videos are NOTHING if they do not align with the rightly divided Word.
The girl in the Acts passage spoke words that appear to be right but it took discernment to see through into the real motivation and intent.

IS 'TESTIMONY' ENOUGH PROOF?

I believe any close reader of details of this thread focusing on SirJohn's will see that the particular individual involved initially testified to healing. However subsequent realities revealed a different picture.
WoF followers are very excited about the miraculous. Therefore whenever it rears it head or is presented their emotions are roused. UNFORTUNATELY emotion doesn't THINK. They either don't know this or won't accept it. So they behave like the average football fan. Even when it appears his team is not playing better than the other side he still wants his team to win. So in the face of obvious facts Gombs & Co will still 'hope' things will turn out in their Favour.
Testimony can be given today, captured on film, and projected tomorrow to viewers who may be electrified by it. Meanwhile the subject of the testimony may be EXPERIENCING a complete opposite of what is being projected. That is what this story is showing us.
An ATMOSPHERE was created to bring about MIRACLES which SirJohn is still waiting for to truly verify.
But the emotional ones?
They are still intoxicated by the 'testimony' unable to THINK further than that.

Gombs: Oh! I know 30% of you...Don't make me get to work o... it's against forum rules to post members details...

Stick to the issues man.
Resorting to distractions is not what this apt thread needs right now.

Gombs: Well then! I see the thread going to WoF teachings, I can safely conclude the OP has been duely dissected...I take my leave.

24pages...pheew!

Thanks y'all for the time! Posterity will judge this thread

Do I sense the usual 'escape route' mentality?
Watch out folks!!
This is what they do when the see that if they give clear answers their position will be weakened or nullified.

donnie: No one says she was not called. She obviously is. I too, i'm called but my mine is to follow pastor Chris. By God's grace i'm a partaker of the grace upon this great MAN OF GOD.

What Pastor Chris doing will clear the air regarding this 'Man of God' thing. Because in recent years, anyone carrying or preaching bible is called Man of God. That's foul. Look at the bible at those who we called Man of God. They didnt live ordinary lives. See a Man of God:

2Kings 1:10:
"And Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty, If I be a man of God, then let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. (KJV)"

A man of God lives only for God. When he speaks, it is as though God has spoken. They do not and cannot live careless lives because the same power can kill quickly if misused.

Was Apostle Paul a 'man of God'?
How did he live?
Is there anywhere in the New Testament that shows how 'men of God' should live and even relate with their flock and others?
Should we be guided by these today?

shdemidemi: I thought you outgrew the 'go study' format.

If you must know, you have no authority whatsoever, all authority is reserved in God and disbursed as He so wish.

If the pastor misleading you have such powers, he won't be in this present predicament today, he would have used the same sham authority to control the spirit of divorce before it deteriorated this far.

The finger is always pointed elsewhere. If it's not that the person 'healed' failed to 'suststain' his healing by 'faith' it is the devil at work.
If SO MUCH POWER is claimed by these WoF folks why should it fail to work?

shdemidemi: I thought you outgrew the 'go study' format.

If you must know, you have no authority whatsoever, all authority is reserved in God and disbursed as He so wish.

If the pastor misleading you have such powers, he won't be in this present predicament today, he would have used the same sham authority to control the spirit of divorce before it deteriorated this far.

The finger is always pointed elsewhere. If it's not that the person 'healed' failed to 'suststain' his healing by 'faith' it is the devil at work.
If SO MUCH POWER is claimed why should it fail to work?

Donxavier: He spoke the truth so he didn't need a defence. It's a very simple matter. Did she file for a divorce? Even your Under fire Jerry curl preacher didn't deny the fact, so what are you saying

You can see that it's playing out just like I said. Admitting anything 'negative' will go against their 'positive confession'. So even in the face of obvious facts they are 'frozen'. Do they let their 'yes' be 'yes' and 'no' be 'no' or present the reality as taught them? That is their dilemma. It is the tragedy of the WoF followers.

Gombs: See your life?

Oya, carry on with the Healing School bashing...or are you done?! Your failed blogging is as a result of poor creativity and bitterness cum busy body. Bros, change o...change!

Gombs, no answer yet to my simple question?

Donxavier: Lols.
The whole thing is all a sham. It's so sad. They have twisted and turned everything. It's almost like a cult following. I weep for this set of so called 'believers'

Indeed it's so, so sad. Reminds one of when Jesus Christ saw the multitude like sheep without a shepherd. He then began to teach them. Their religious leaders had turned them in some other direction that was not toward God. The same is happening today; many have 'men of God' but what are they fed with? Chaff, junk, rubbish. They need to be retaught the sincere milk of the Word.

debosky: To learn from - not to repeat/copy senselessly.

The Israelites spent 40 years in the wilderness therefore because they did it I must go and spend 40 years in the wilderness so I can 'learn from it'.

If you follow the 'principle' of Malachi (doing what the law commands) but ignore the 'principle' of wave and heave offering, you have broken all the 'principles'. Geddit?

James 2:10 For the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as a person who has broken all of God's laws.

Get it into your head.

I will be pleasantly surprised if he can answer you. I don't think he can. To him the whole Bible is indistinct so he can pick and choose as he wants even in the face of clear delineations.

Donxavier: Bro's,
You guys should just answer the questions as truthful as you can. No need for long stories. Did Rev Anita file for a divorce? Is it a fact?

They have been taught to only 'confess' positive things. So if an answer will appear to be 'negative' they are stuck. Should they say it as it is and make a negative confession or should they seek an escape route that will appear not to be a lie? That is their dilemma.

Gombs: My answer is in Mark 15:2... are you sure you don’t have reading disorder?

As far as I can see there is no Rev. Anita in that portion you referenced.
You don't really want to answer the guy's question do you?

Donxavier: Did Rev Anita file for a divorce? At least Jesus wasn't arrogant enough not to give an answer. He replied pilate

Gombs wouldn't answer.
If he sincerely does he would need to shift ground. He DOES NOT want to do that.
He wants you to accept what he says as the truth even in the face of contradicting info.