₦airaland Forum

ogyunging:
I came searching for information and knowledge.

Look what I found,

Bashing of heads,

Religious enmity.

Science guy and buddha should chill...

Please, gracias.

thanks bro.

ScienceWatch and budaatum. This is for you guys. We are here to learn from each other. Hope this can be settle .

budaatum:
Lol! I was not referring to my view. I was again (rather rudely, I admit, and hence my apology), reminding you that you promised to help me understand what you write. There is no way I could have understood that meant what it does, for instance.

I'm on a mobile too, by the way.

i thought you were insinuating evolution theory invalidate God. And i request to read your view in regards to it.

budaatum:
Lol! Now what the heck does that mean?

You promised

I am on my mobile phone. I mean let me read your view......

budaatum:
Yes it does vaxx. I beg forgiveness please in advance. But remember that favour you are doing me. It is most pertinent in the current circumstances or the wrong understanding might be grasped.

ok let nor read your view?

Glycolysis:
Yea,I don't deny SCIENCTIFIC FACTs.I work with them.I don't just wish them away...

Scientific facts is based on the confinement of natural sciences & it's of tremendous importance in our growth..
You can question many of the scientific fano cts...you're free to do that also.
Like ,go study Charles Darwin law of evolution,that's natural selection...it's a scientific fact,which can also be subject to more scientific findings.....It's not fixed .

when there is no question, then there is no science. Science is very inquisitive. She never relent....
Always wanted to know more.

Regarding evolution theory, it has no logical “holes”. None. Not even one. Zero. Every single “hole” that the liars have put on apologetic website and out there in the corporeal world have put out are either blatantly deceptive for the sake of fooling people or are ignorantly deceptive on account of not having the proper information. Take your pick. There is no debate in the scientific community regarding it. What is left to know in details are in some other disciplines like paleontology, geology, genetics and developmental biology.. And this is thoroughly been researched till date.

Even Darwin could see that science was making new discoveries every day, and he knew that this work would continue into the indefinite future. So he was confident that some day the mechanisms that made natural selection possible would be discovered. And of course he was right.

And the most interesting thing, it does not take God away.. because God is not in the gap.it only established God work in everything discover and yet to be discovered...it validate the blueprint of God. Hope this help.

Glycolysis:
Thanks once again,...but I could be very wrong too. That's why the earth is too big that everybody can do his / her findings
but one thing I know for sure is that GOD exist !

But it will be too wrong for you to deny scientific fact.

ScienceWatch:
OMG ! Thanks sir. If atheists still fail to understand what you wrote, I will have to declare that they are a true embarrassment to their fish and ape ancestry.

I just showed this to an irreligious student of Philosophy for an opinion. He says that only a fish brain won't understand this incredible writeup of Vaxx. He further says that it is crucial to the genuine truth seeker that the two separate Epistemologies are respected to avoid confusion.

Yes sir, true faith is way more powerful than logic. It is easy to prove.

I am not sure he is aware theology is a branch of liberal art. And it is study up to PhD level. Unless he argue that liberal art can not be rationalized. And If he does, the whole world will laugh at him.

How can you have a PhD in theology without rationalization?

profeazy:
There is no rationality in faith. Islam is just like Christainity. The only difference is in some small details!

i disagree with you. Even if you are going base on knowledge which is base on established fact. It will have to depend on your epistemology, just like some established knowledge that are irrational but agree with science.

faith can either be rational or irrational too. It is more powerful than logic. Let me break it down . We have (a) a naturalistic epistemology and (b) religious epistemology. Religious epistemology deals purely with preternatural questions. Naturalistic epistemology deals purely with natural questions.

Faith can be rational in religious epistemology but faith can be irrational under naturalistic epistemology. Since religious epistemological answers are unfalsifiable for naturalistic epistemological questions.

ScienceWatch:
Very, very wrong.

He is too wrong

Factfinder1:
Thank you

so please for your parent sake, don't lost touch with reality .

Factfinder1:
Please I need advice and counselling

I recently relocated and am staying with a cousin...first time he made noodles for me and told me he wanted to add hemp to cook so that it will make him sleep, since I was curious and wanted to try somethixng new I obliged and we ate it i became high and I lost total control of my body but I was having an out of body experience and I could feel my spirit talking to me and and floating and everything was soo real and the voices were clear in my head...I got a tour guiding voice taking me to realms and territories I've never ever seen or heard about in this world...I saw I lot of wonderful and beautiful things and I was taught a lot about how some things came to be and how they are sustained... Yesterday we cooked rice and added wees again and I had same experience hearing strange words being in another realm and being schooled in soo many planes and dimensions... I'm a Christian tho not perfect but I don't smoke weed I only use it to cook... pls does weed connect to the real realm of the true and living God ?

I heard this word(tentradrilion) I was told its what God uses in his measurements of things I checked it and even Google doesn't have an answer or meaning to it

Cannabis is the most important environmental factor to develop Schizophrenia.

panafrican:
If Ecowas were a country the few who would be qualified to president would be
1. General Buhari, a man of honor and integrity. He also is a great patriot.

2. President Mugabe. Great panafricanist.
Great patriot.
His wife was from Ghana. She passed away long time ago, but this marriage still makes him a West African . Moreover he lived in Ghana for a long time when Nkruma was in power.

3. Jerry Rawlings of Ghana. Great patriot, man of honor and integrity. His policies brought Ghana back from a failed statehood to a booming economy.

4.Really don't see anyone else.

you never heard Thomas Sankara of bourkina faso . Another state man in west Africa that was killed by the power hungry French.

hopefulLandlord:
It does regardless of those quotes

I don't see how getting quotes from certain people is a good argument or am I missing something? I could also gather quotes from atheist philosophers and notable atheists whose quotes go the opposite way

I am surprised you ask this question. Quoting people ( especially an authority)is a clever way to put up a valid point in an academic discipline. Every researcher do it. In fact to make your work robust , it must have been accepted among a good number of researcher.

With regard to the quotes, I quoted, they are authority in the discipline . The philosopher study the philosophy of religion which make them an expert and authority on the subject.


It is like when you write “X is true” or “X study says Y”, you’re making a claim of fact. So it is kind of claims of fact in research paper that is commonly agreed-upon knowledge, therefore I cited quote of those who agree with the fact I am claiming.

A quote is a text that points to the author of a work from whom you have gathered information that you’ve included in a report.


So if you think they are atheist philosopher who study religion as a discipline who disagree with the riddle, go ahead and quote and let's reader juxtapose who is making more valid point.


I am surprise you ask this question once again.

dalaman:
I fail to see how. The opinions and submissions of the people you stated are empty in my opinion.

ok sir.

dalaman:
And the sense you've made here is?

it is a not a challenge to religious folks.

Martinez19:
@vaxx

How can we be sure that the evil around us are not natural cause and effect but the workings of a creator for a greater good?
Is their a way we could know what greater good god could be aiming at in a particular tragedy?
Given the awful tragedy that befalls some christians like terminal cancer, untimely death etc. can we ask what is that necessary good god can't achieve without the grievous suffering of his people?

Remember some religious folks suffer these while some don't. The same applies to the irreligious. What is the purpose of the suffering of the irreligious given that their sufferings are similar to that of the religious?
Given that the recovery from and progression of tragedies and mishaps in both groups are similar, can't it be said christians are making a mountain out of a molehole when they think their sufferings are special and serves a purpose?

Remember this is not my perspective but some of the well kwown philosopher of the felid ""religion"". I just post it here to validate that the claims of atheist on evil does not pose a serious challenge to the religious folks.


My perspective on evil is somehow different from the philosopher view. .... But in anyway it agree with them.

Good and bad are anthroprocentric position. And nothing more to it.

Atheists are found of “Epicurus’ riddle”, that is a version of the logical problem of evil, one that no philosopher who specializes in the philosophy of religion thinks is sound. Don’t believe me? Below are a few quotes on the logical problem of evil I compiled from various philosophers who specialize in the philosophy of religion:

“Perhaps the logical problem of evil does not pose such a great challenge to theism. To deal with it, it would suffice to show that an all-powerful, all-knowing and maximally good god might allow some evil for the sake of a greater good.” (Stephen Law, “The evil-god Challenge”, 2010)

“Logical arguments from evil are a dying (dead?) breed. Even an omnipotent and omniscient being might be forced to allow evil for the sake of obtaining some important good. Our knowledge of goods and evils and the logical relations they bear to each other is much too limited to prove that this could not be the case.” (Paul Draper, “The Skeptical Theist”, 176–177, 1996)

“First, it [the problem of evil] can be formulated as a purely deductive argument that attempts to show that there are certain facts about evil in the world that are logically incompatible with the existence of God, and one especially ambitious form of this sort of argument attempts to establish the very strong claim that it is logically impossible for it to be the case both that there is any evil at all, and that God exists (…) It seems very doubtful, however, that the argument is sound. The reason is that the claim that a morally perfect being would want to prevent all evils is not unproblematic.” (Michael Tooley, “Knowledge of God”, 100–101, 2008)

““It used to be held that evil was incompatible with the existence of God: that no possible world contained both God and evil. So far as I am able to tell, this thesis is no longer defended.”

(Peter Van Inwagen, “Philosophical Perspective 5”, 1991)

“It is now acknowledged on (almost) all sides that the logical argument [from evil] is bankrupt.”

(William Alston, “Philosophical Perspective 5”, 1991)



Extract from my library.........

[quote author=Martinez19 post=70o 059403]lol. Stop the use of physics to bastardise reality. Every good physicists will agree with the bolded. This is the same thing Deepak Chopra does --- using quantum mechanics to justify his new age teachings.[/quote]Do you try doing a little Google search on the aforementioned subject? If you do, I can then share some insight with you.

In religious section......You don miss road?

Martinez19:
If you smoke marijuana very often, you stand the risk of addiction and have long lasting cognitive and emotional problems. You should forget the third eye nonsense and get a life. All that you need is bound to and doesn't exceed your mind and physical environment

Go study particle physics. You need to learn a lot.

ScienceWatch:
I have nothing against him. There is nothing to settle. Thanks Vaxx.

ok sir. but i notice budaa don't go off track insulting Christianity instead he prefer to engage in debate.

To be sincere I also have issues with athiest insulting anything the religious hold sacred.

budaatum:
And you did. And I appreciate it. Now, if you could do me just one more favour. Tell that unevolved ape that if he has got nothing to say that is related to this thread, that he should go find another thread to troll and derail please. Or you shall be having this conversation by yourself.

Thank you in advance.

lol. You guys use to be friend. What went wrong.

You guys should settle it jaare...

ScienceWatch:
No one on Nairaland writes perfectly. I have no problem understanding what you write because I don't judge your incredible intelligence and advanced spiritual wisdom by petty standards.

Remember, the standards set out in the Atheists Training Manual is about petty fault finding, mockery and insults.

Am not even bothered. At least he needs to defend himself in whatever way.

However i appreciate his complain and I promised to take care of it.

frank317:
I hope u know what u are doing... This is an absolute case of pretending not to understand his post.

I clearly understood it and I give a clearer answer in regards to it. If the answer its not satisfactory. Then fine . You may queation what you feel confusing or not clearer enough.

never said God needs us... But that, according to u, God does not act without humans acting

You are misrepresenting my comment. No where do I make such statement. I only position that human instinct is a gift from God and he expect us to use it among us. I am not separating Gods and human. I says the gods(orisha ) are the power of olodumare living within us and a fail attempt not to use it is not on the shoulder of the the orisha but on us..

. And this is very clear in all ur replies. Its seems it is our actions that determines what God actually did for us.

No, it is what we let the power of gods living in us do. If we failed to use it,it fail us , if we use it, it save us. It is not in any way a seprate entiry distinct from us.

I

don't want to believe that there were not persons that didn't want to resist the whites... My great grand father was a native doctor and he used everything within his means to fight the whites.
Its a bit of insult saying God help those who help themselves in their sitiation

I never implied that.i even go further with tithinigs that those who follow the instruction of the orisha living with them were saved. Some established another land somewhere. Some come back home. But in vast majority , people decline to use the power that is annexed within them. The ""orisha"" even now that we are free , we are still enslaved. So what have we done toward it?. So is it not a Choice now? iis it not a choice that we still STAYED enslaved for that many centuries despite our large numbers now and freedom from us .
Who is pointing guns toward us now?

Eshu the Yoruba deity . Eshu is the reality that your condition in life (as individuals or as a people) derive from your choices and complicity. Your decisions AND indecisions. You can only be oppressed when you (as a people) reject your role in your own choices in favor of being an eternal victim.

And as I put it to you earlier that we have rejected our own spiritual concept of Eshu (responsibility to choices) who stands at the crossroads where we make decisions, the African race since then has become obsessed with being a victim to the point that it has stagnated us from ever to be free

While the initial choice of slavery was taken from us (to the fault of the continental Africans who choose to let Eurasians ravage the continent for slaves for over 1,000 years), after over 400 years of captivity we still choose the life of a slave over the life of a free man; and so yes, our enslavement has become a choice we made. Until we acknowledge the existence of Eshu and our abuse of the Eshu within us, we will continue making complicit choices that harm us instead of empower us.

U are implying our people did nothing, they just allowed themselves to be taken away because after all slavery was part of them[/quote[I was implyimg that it was a choice some of us made. And those of us that strive not to take the choice were emancipated. As it it clear to this day.
.
[quote]For me, the captors helped themselves the best way they could, they ran, they fought, some succeeded in escaping and some where captured... But the gods where just looking... And saying those who escaped were really helped by the gods is total bullshit. But it also implies that those who were caught were not helped by the Gods.

After taking several time on this thread., you still don't get what gods entails in ifa spirituality. Now I understand why you are athiest. But let me quickly brief you. Some resist it and even conquered them . Libya is a typical example when Italians war lord came to ravage their empire and some refuse to get to Europe on board . They fought like the will of Sango and succeed. Some die while paving way for their future generation. Some save thier family in respect to it and got capture. The story of kinta kunte of Gambia was an interesting story to read. Some annexed this power and it work for them. ASHANTI EMPIRE refuse to handover the golden stool that represent their heritage to the British even with well armed men from the British side. They succeed in keeping the statue up till today .the story of Yaa asantewa will be an interesting read . This are people who annexed the power of God's in them..

]Ya suddenly our natural desire for survival is that ways of the gods in us... Why didn't the Ogun in our enslaved ones help them. The instinct for survival and remain home with their families was already in them they couldn't stand against a stronger force with more sophisticated weapons. Pls do not insult our forefathers by saying they didn't bother to help themselves... Don't say god help those who help themselves, because they fought and were overcame.. The gods did nothing because they can so nothing.

orisha and human and not seperate individual I have repeat this so many times....and with regards to other point. I correct it up there.

budaatum:
You are free to assume I am not as capable of reading as Stevie Wonder is if it would only make you write a tiny bit clearer.
Thank you.

Hope hell will stop.

tintingz:
Three things here,

The Gods depends on humans before taking any action?

The Gods fail to protect it people because Africans were not united?

From your post, how do we know if the Gods actually didn't do anything when the people fought?

No it shows that the gods does not need us , it is human that needs gods. And when we fail to actualize the power of the gods living within us .which simply means failling to harness this power of olodumare living in us physically, we will become a subject and give chance to external agent to overcome us .

So In IFA spirituality, we acknowledge the dynamics of nature as the dynamics of the Creator. And we knows Nature shows unapologetic battles between the hunter and the hunted. it is therefore mandatory for us to be the hunter. Ogun in you will then aid you in decapitating all your enemies.

budaatum:
I have told you about it many times. You even once made an effort to write clearer, but it did not last long. It is insulting of you to expect us to derive meaning from what you write when you can't bother to be clear. And to accuse us of not understanding when you don't is rubbing more egg in our faces! I swear, if it was not the case that I know you have a better brain in your head than you sometimes use to express yourself, I would not even bother reading your stuff.

Please do not make me dump that very good head of yours in the dustbin I beg you. My existence here will be less fruitful if I have to!

I accept mistake . But saying what i post here is not understood base on bad writing will be a clever way to be biased. EVEN Steven wonder can read and understand it. But anyway, Your complain will be noted and be well taken care of

budaatum:
Yes, you do get on my nerves. You write badly and expect to be understood, and when people respond, what do you say? "You don't understand"! When you claim one does not understand, I suppose you are being emotionless, in your view!

If you don't want to be misunderstood, why not make a little bit more of an effort to write clearly? Or haven't you heard of proofreading what you post? You really need to stop insulting people and then accuse them of getting emotional. Your insults are a clear sign of who is the emotional one here. Though now that you've got me going, emotion is well deserved, from me!

ok. Clearly noted. Emotion on display.

[/b][b]

budaatum:
I'm not wadding through your bad writing vaxx, looking for an answer to a question you have not bothered to respond to. If you've answered it, you can copy and paste a link to it, or let me just assume you are talking crap and hoping we are too ignorant to see through you!

""bad writting"" whaooo

budaatum:
Abi now! N'gbo, vaxx. What do you suggest the people should have done so that the superior god did not overwhelm and enslave them?

look up sir

budaatum:
[You should just write my response for me then and not bother asking the question or starting a thread! As if you get to tell people what they should write! You said I do not understand, and I have shown you that I seem to understand way better than you seem to.

I must have offend you to ask something of such as an online buddy. But if it get on your nerve as I see it . I tender my apology.

I still repeat you do not understand the concept of God In ifa spirituality and it clarly shows. And as for this one I will not tender an apology because it is obvious. And nonetheless they are distinct difference from both of them and your post has a lot of flaws which I can point out . But that is not the purpose of this thread.

Regarding the topic at hand. You said Orisha/Olodumare is not separate from the human being, and that they are one and the same thing. So the question posed is simply, "where were the people who were enslaved (or their sense) when they were being enslaved?", since the people and Olodumare/Orisha are the same one entity, according to you.

it is two things. It's is either you read out of contest or you read what suit you. but all the same it is still lack of understanding. sometimes when I don't understand thread I boycoult the discussion or I ask relevant question to get the message. I just don't debate becuse I can use Google. It is called internet abuse.

You really should stop throwing tantrums as if you are the only one with a brain. We are not stupid individuals whom you get to educate with what is seeming more like a limited understanding of what you think you might know. If you don't want people to voice their opinion, consider writing it in a book and not on an interactive forum where people would likely respond. I have written my piece and it stands. You are not the only one on here and if you don't get it, those who will will!

This is more of emotions rather than a discussion. Ok your point is noted and will be well taken care of.

tintingz:
Ok, since you have ifa knowledge, what do you suggest the people should have done for the gods to protect them?

Your question was answer in the op

but you will have made an impressive question like this " what should people do for themselves for gods to protect.them. "" human instinct is already given as the most precious price:""

I repeat the proverb again . Gods help those who help themselves. Historically, at least they were over 50 rebellions or more that occurred on slave ships by the enslaved in Africans coast which resulted in the Africans freeing themselves and making their way back to Africa directly or indirectly...this are the people whom gods help. They rembeer the principle of unity to defend even when gun was pointing toward them. They symbolized Sango. The brave warrior.

Another way gods help those whom help themselvea were Africans whom excape and establish their own colony in the land where they were. One of the first of such colonies was founded in Veracruz in 1570 but others existed as early as 1550 and still exist. In other words the historical record shows clearly that enslaved Africans began fighting for freedom as soon as enslaved, from the boat to the block and before and after.which shows Gods help those who help themselves.