₦airaland Forum

ABDULADINO:
God preserves His elect, but He does not make them persevere in faith. Faith may be weak and even lost at times by the elect, yet God is faithful.His faith is the Basis of their preservation.

Why is faith necessary in the first place?

There is the definite possiblity of God's elect backsliding into sin and having their faith overthrown but not losing eternal life.

Many beliefs today are popular because they appeal to our weakness rather than because they are biblical. Such beliefs include spiritual justifications for materialism, theological exemptions from suffering tribulation, and even justifications for not sharing our faith with others. The idea that someone who professes conversion will share eternal life even if they do not persevere as believers in Christ is another belief that is comforting—and dangerously~~~>Dr Craig Keener

parisbookaddict:
ItS funny how the rich, secular and exposed Muslims don't have it but the poor ignorant ones do.

I noticed this

stevecantrell:
"Jesus !" Is a popular swear word on TV shows, movies and real life. I haven't heard anyone use "ALLAH" in similar manner.

Have you ?

So capitalization had nothing to do with swearing

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BxrT0F-mwJf1NWdGelk3enMzZ2M


Wonderful book

Rilwayne001:
END OF DISCUSSION. @Vooks, What else do you want?

Since JESUS CHRIST and ALLAH can't be capitalized, the admin holds them in equal esteem.


There is no valid rationale for restricting capitalizing Jesus

stevecantrell:
"Jesus" spelt in upper case 'reads' more like a swear word,
It could be a default setting on the word censor.

JESUS
ALLAH

What about Allah?

The OP is from Deeper Life

ABDULADINO:
The skeptic doesn't get it.. The Romans 2:12 he quoted shows the phrase "all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law" referring to anybody who has ever sinned at any time...and those WHO SIN without the law will perish...it never said they are saved...One wonders where he got the concept of salvation from that passage...since Paul had made it clear ALL HAVE SINNED..

Amateur theologian,
It took you hours of googling to fish this flimsy excuse?
Now, think for a second.
1.Did everyone under the Law go to hell because all are sinners?
2. Did everyone (like your great great great grandfather) without the Law go to hell because all are sinners?

In other words, if you choose to live under the law you will be condemned by it! Personally i prefer living under the grace of God given through faith in Jesus Christ.

Perish personal preferences, the Truth is objective

The eternal security skeptics are welcome to live under the law if they want.

You will be in good company in hell with other deluded folks who Jesus denies ever knowing them despite them prophesying and working wonders in his name. Reason? They worked iniquities

davidiyke:
You specifically demanded for this! Meanwhile, it had always been the focal point of all the testimonies on my trail. The Testimonies lead to desire for salvation. CHRIST HAS ALWAYS BEEN MY MESSAGE!

I demanded because it was missing
Help men to trust their prayers and not yours

ABDULADINO:
Where is the salvation here?Jesus said He is the way the truth and the life, no man can access the Father except through Him. So can you quote any scripture that says there is salvation outside the Law? Who are those gentile folks that were SAVED during the Law?

You are playing dumb.
Explain to me that verse, and more importantly the fate of your great great great great grandfather who never heard about Sinai nor Calvary

Cornelius salvation was not dependent on his works, try another yarn.

God is no respecter of persons and he treats all alike. That is the point you can't confront; equality of all before God

[i]Eph 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. (

Salvation is 110% a gift. Nobody can boast nor complain after rejecting it seeing it is offered to ALL.

The lamb slain from the foundation of the world was for mankind not angels.

Yes, for mankind...ALL and not just a few Elect.

I can empathize with your inadequacies and your inability to explain (Eph 1:3-6; II Tim 1:9).

You can't shake off indoctrination over a forum. It takes prayers

Serve his brother for what purpose.

The very purpose he was created for

The catch is created in Christ for without Him we can do nothing.

IN Christ. Only IN Christ do you find Election. Christ is the condition for election

Take note of the aorist tenses. neglect at your peril.

Amateur theologians think commentaries and new vocabularies make scholars. Pathetic

The point is that the will of God will be done either way.

Nonsense. What was His will when he instructed Adam not to eat the fruit?

God is all-knowing and all-powerful.

True

He knows what we will do because he knows all things.

Mmmh

He cannot not know all things.

The all-knowing who cannot know all things.

OLAADEGBU:
I've known you to be on the side of falsehood so I'm not surprised if you cannot be bothered to find out the truth.

The line between negroes and sewer rats MUST never be blurred; scraping sewers for gossip is so sissy and pathetic

Cc Gombs

ABDULADINO:
Jesus said He is the way the truth and the life, no man can access the Father except through Him. So can you quote any scripture that says there is salvation outside the Law? Who are those gentile folks that were SAVED during the Law? An example will help me grasp your point.

Romans 2:12 (KJV)
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law

Peter meant the gentiles, you also need to read the Pauline epistles severally so the truth can sink in too. Cornelius was the catalyst God used to launch His salvation purposes to gentile nations which Paul later strongly walked in. Peter never had any insight into this mystery. It was Paul. In fact it was a huge challenge for Peter to move outside his culture,tradition and mindset in order to reach a gentile hence the exclamation you quoted indeed God is no respecter of Jews. Hear Paul when the Jews were spoiling his work to gentile nations.

Acts 10:34-35 (KJV)
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him
Not respecting persons means He subjects them to the same treatment

Christ is “the firstborn over all creation because by Him everything was created.” Christ is supreme over all creation because he created all things, so it is not out of place to say the OT saints i quoted earlier were IN Christ. This is election by grace.

Amateur exegesis. Lucifer too is in Christ because he was created by God

Election is unconditional.God elected some men before the world began (Eph 1:3-6; II Tim 1:9). Your faith, baptism, or any good works are the evidence and result of salvation, not conditions for it.Justification, the forgiveness of sins, and eternal life are by the obedience of one – Jesus Christ.

The Body of Christ is the Elect. Join the Body and you are Elect. The conditions for Election were set before the foundation, just as Christ was slain before the foundation

So what was the role of Esau? or what plans God had for him?

Serve his brother

lemme cite some scripture to convince you the more.

For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus [size=18pt]to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do[/size](Ephesians 2:10)

What was prepared in advance is the good works not the doers

He predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will-- (Ephesians 1:5)

THROUGH JESUS. All in Christ are adopted as His sons

also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, (Ephesians 1:11)

God predestinated the Body of Christ, not handpicking some lucky Elite believers. Join the body and you are predestinated

Hear what Jesus even told his disciples on the foreknowledge of the Father.

Jesus said to them, "You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared by my Father." (Matthew 20:23)

Be wise. God preparing places for some is not handpicking some lucky any more than preparing hell for Satan and his angels is CAUSING Satan to rebel
Matthew 25:41 (KJV)
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels

In any case, God's knowledge of future events is not the same as orchestrating them. One can say God foreknew Adam's fall. It is another matter to charge Him with causing it on this basis

If God freely offers a gift (salvation) to ALL men but denies most the ability (faith) to receive this gift, the offer is not genuine, and it was never available for all.

The doctrine of perseverance which is derived from the idea of individual election, is incompatible with a belief in availability of salvation for ALL

OLAADEGBU:
The least you can say is show us how you think this article is fake.

It's source is an unverified blog. That's more than enough

davidiyke:
3 John 1:2:
"Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth."
God's greatest desire is that you live in prosperity and good health. However the condition for this is PROSPERITY of your SOUL!
For your soul to be said to prosper it must go through regeneration because ordinarily the soul of man is wicked:
Genesis 6:5
"And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."
Jeremiah 17:9
"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"
Romans 3:23
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"
Yes, ALL (you inclusive) have sinned and are liable to the wages (DEATH)- Romans 6:23.
Interestingly the way out which is the way to regenerate your soul is to accept the work of salvation which Christ did for us.
John 3:3
"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Beloved, all you need to do to appropriate this beautiful life is BELIEVE in this work of Salvation and Confess it Openly.[color=#770077][/color]
Romans 10:10
"For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

This am seeing now. Where was it in all the posts you made? Am a bond-servant of Jesus Christ myself.

trustman:
10. If man does ANYTHING to remain saved the he (man) 'earned' it. That would cancel out grace - Romans 11:6. Adding anything to grace nullifies grace.

We are saved by grace through faith.
Faith is not works so remaining in faith is not working.

11. God's grace is unconditional; therefore it is not dependent on man but on God.

God's grace is AVAILABLE for all men
Titus 2:11 (KJV)
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

But is only realized through faith
Ephesians 2:8 (KJV)
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

And this is why despite God's grace overflowing, multitudes will miss its merits
Christ's sacrifice is SUFFICIENT for ALL but EFFICIENT only for those who believe

God is unchanging and so His grace continues undiminished. God's grace does not swing like a pendulum.

These cliches and rhetoric are full of half-truths. He is unchanging and Lucifer will end up in Hell

What God starts in grace, He continues in grace!

What is appropriated by faith is kept by faith

ABDULADINO:
God saved few when Israel wasn't born from Noah to Abraham.An example of the MANY that God saved would help me get your point.

God gave opportunities to ALL

Jesus came from that lineage( Jews) to say it wasn't a determinant is to go against scriptures.

By saying it's no determinant I mean there is salvation outside the Law just as there is condemnation. What do you think happens to those who never heard of Torah?

Those outside the covenant of Israel were still judged by the motives of their heart( Romans 2:14).. Example i gave was Abraham.So who put those laws in their heart?

The most important thing is there is salvation outside the Law, and I don't mean those who lived before the Law, I mean those who lived during the Law but outside Israel

The Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world. God is no respecter of chronological time.He does things by the predeterminate counsel of His will. Noah,Abraham, Moses,prostitute Rahab,Samson, Jephthah, David, Samuel and all the patriachs and prophets were ALL IN CHRIST before He came. This is election by Grace and Jeremiah boldly declared it that before He was formed God CHOSE him and SET HIM APART.( Jer 1:5).

God is no respecter of persons. If he respects some persons over others, then Peter is clearly deluded
Acts 10:34-35 (KJV)
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him
You need to read this verse severally and let the truth sink; God has no favorites NOW

Herod is a type of satan, the analogy doesn't follow by equating what he does with what God does.God's wisdom is different from devilish wisdom.

The point remains...election is corporate and conditional not arbitrary and individual. Join Christ and you are Elect, stay outside and you are a reprobate

Care to explain why God loved Jacob and hated Esau before any of them had done anything good or bad? Is God unjust? And why a specific number of 144000 from all the tribes of Israel in revelation ?

God preferring Jacob over Essau was simply for rolling out His plans. He never condemned one to hell while saving the other. Just like He made Paul an apostle to the Gentiles and Peter to the Jews

davidiyke:
My role as a Servant of God is to give you the good news which I have done (in my own small way). I am not here to become an instrument of ridicule to the Almighty God.
I AM A SERVANT OF GOD. As a SERVANT, I am duty bound to OBEY GOD!

Am straining to see the 'good news' sir. Could you point it out to me?

An2elect2:
Finally

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the
flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:13)

It is, indeed, as great an absurdity as can be thought
of, to suppose that the corrupt, vicious heart does
anything towards its becoming holy, or exercises any
will or choice that has the least tendency to it; as
absurd as to suppose that the exercise of perfect
selfishness has a tendency to produce benevolence,
or that the heart is made better and becomes holy by
the constant exercise of lust and wickedness. For all
the exercises and volitions of the corrupt,
unregenerate heart are certainly the exercises of sin.
It was, nevertheless, of importance that this should
be particularly observed by the evangelist, when
treating of this matter; seeing, however plain it is,
and though the contrary is so very absurd, men are
ready to imagine they may be born again by the will
of the flesh, or, at least, that by the exertions of their
own wills and endeavors they may do something
towards it. In this delusion, I suppose all men
naturally are, and that no man heartily and really
gives up this point until he is taught of God. And
multitudes of professing Christians do persist in
expressly opposing what is here asserted all their
days.

~Samuel Hopkins.

John 1:12-13 (KJV)
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God

Note carefully
They receive him first and then become sons of God. Belief comes first and then Sonship. God ONLY makes sons out of those who receive Him

The DEAD hear his voice and live.
John 5:25 (KJV)
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live
Which is it, Hopkins or John?

5solas:
And my point is that Christ did not say ALL of the dead shall hear His voice.

That is a truism. Very many have and will perish without the gospel.

The important bit from this verse is a man totally dead in their trespasses still CAN hear God. Being dead is no excuse for not hearing God.

A sinner can either accept and respond to the voice or they can ignore it. Salvation of God is optional and not rammed down our spirits.

5solas:
The point is that context means nothing to you.
"The dead shall hear and THEY that hear ..." means that ALL hears , to you.

1. The DEAD shall hear
2. They that shall hear

Who are 'they'? The dead of course?
Much as English is not your first or even tenth language, the sense of that verse is clear

Men estranged from God, totally dead still hear God.

ABDULADINO:
Oga, i quoted the OT, God called Israel his first born except you want to tear the OT out of your bible.
I don't have any version, i quoted scriptures except your mind is playing games. Do explain the ephesians epistles i quoted. Ayam waiting.

Like I told you about Israel, God still saved many outside Israel. So Israel election was not the determinant of eternity before Calvary.
Romans 2:12 King James Version (KJV)
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;


So there was salvation and damnation OUTSIDE Israel. Very important you note that.

Ephesians 1:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

The MOST important thing in this verse is IN HIM. God chooses those who are IN Christ. It is being IN Christ that makes me Elect, and not Election that makes me IN Christ.

This is why all believers are called Elect regardless of whether they will fall away the next minute. IN CHRIST we are chosen.

Let me explain it further by a simple example. When Herod ordered a genocide in Matthew 2:16,he specified the age,gender and area under which it was to be carried. If a child 'qualified',they were killed, and this would include 'stray' kids like Jesus (he just happened to be born in Bethlehem but his parents were from Galilee-Luke 1:26) Herod did not pick names and identities of his victims. Likewise, before the foundation of the earth God elects to favour a group with one condition; they MUST be IN Christ.

So you always have a group/body corporate called Elect not individuals. The body Of Christ is the Elect. It is by being part of the body that we enjoy sanctification,justification.......

You readily admit that Jesus died to save ALL and not a few. Anybody accepting Him joins His Body and thus becomes Elect. Those who don't are reprobates.

5solas:

Your penchant for irrelevancies is legendary! Is someone arguing with you if they can still sin or otherwise?


Are the dead here not qualified by Christ?


Did Christ say all shall hear and all shall live?
Why strive to no purpose?
It is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

John 5:25 (KJV)
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live
Jesus makes it clear it is THE DEAD who hear.
Think through that. Dead in their trespasses hear God. Upon hearing, they LIVE.

The point is deadness does not prevent them from hearing God. God does not make you alive FIRST and then present his voice; He speaks to you while dead, and upon hearing you live. So man in his depravity is not immune to the voice.

ABDULADINO:
Read Eph 1:4..God chose Israel from among the nation to be the channel through which He will bring salvation to the world doesn't mean God has rejected the world...

God has always been in the business of separation and election from Genesis to Revelation...this is scriptures.

Probably according to your warped theology God is sadistic for chosing ONLY israel among so many other nations as a prototype of what is to come. God is also sadistic for hardening Israel so the full number of gentiles has to be ingrafted in.

God said before ANYBODY DID ANYTHING HE CHOSE US TO BE HOLY AND BLAMELESS IN HIS SIGHT.
HE PREDESTINED US TO BE ADOPTED AS HIS SONS THROUGH JESUS CHRIST IN ACCORDANCE WITH HIS PLEASURE AND WILL...Eph 1:4-5.

This was the epistle of Paul to gentile nations called the ascension epistle telling them God has chose them.God sees them pure, He sees them having no iniquity.. I can understand this kind of gospel might be offensive to you and the Jews but not to God.

My friend,
Israel election does your theory more harm than good. How so?
Outside Israel, outside the Law, God judges the nations WITHOUT the Law.
But with your version of Calvinism, election is strictly to those in Christ so everyone else perishes!

Try another lame defense of your elite humans theory

davidiyke:
You do not need to trust me. What is important is that you Trust & Believe Christ!

And what's your role in this?

paulGrundy:
Hi vooks, the issue you brought up is not new several topics have been debated on this issue before NL was hacked and much data lost. Funny thing is that MOHAMMED can be typed in upper case.

Wake up bro!!!
Nairaland is an islamic fundamentalist site. Muslims get a special section and treatment, christains don't. I won't be suprised to wake up one day and see a customized ISIL flag on nairaland frontpage.

Cc: Seun

Hi PaulGrundy,
They can tolerate mellin and his satanism, Islam has its section.....surely the name of Jesus Christ must be the name above all names to attract their wrath

OLAADEGBU:
"I Tolerated Abuse For Long" - Anita Oyakhilome Breaks silence on divorce

Trash from unverified blog. You can do better Negro

Cc Gombs

Annunaki:
I don't get your point

Why is it impossible to type Jesus here in upper case?

ABDULADINO:
I never saw this question in my mentions..ofcos Jesus died for mankind not a select few.

Thank you sir
He died....
1.For all (1 Tim. 2:6; Isa. 53:6).
2. For every man (Heb. 2:9).
3. For the world (John 3:16).
4. For the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2).
5. For the ungodly (Rom. 5:6).
6. For false teachers (2 Peter 2:1).
7. For many (Matt. 20:28).
8. For Israel (John 11:50–51).
9. For the Church (Eph. 5:25).
10. For "me" (Gal. 2:20).

Do you understand how contradictory it sounds to believe He died for all mankind but only a few elite believers, the Elect really appropriate His grace?

Jesus avails His blood for everyone but then goes ahead and marks a few to be its beneficiaries while the majority are totally incapable of accessing its merits?

If the majority are incapable of accessing the merits of Christ sacrifice, then the sacrifice is irrelevant and a mockery to them. God taunts sinners with an inaccessible means of salvation. All these verses I have shared above must be radically reinterpreted and twisted beyond recognition.

That is Calvinism for you. This theory in short reduces man into a spectator and a puppet with God pulling all the strings as far as salvation is concerned.

The only reason why many will end up in hell despite Christ dying for them is because they have REJECTED the gift of salvation. God's will is that nobody may perish, but they will perish. That is because His will is not exactly decrees but subject to His own creatures' freewill.

And this is why we keep on telling you man can and has rejected the offer of salvation.
Man can only reject this offer if he has real freedom of choice

But if God controls the entire salvation process without any responsibility from man, then man had no freedom of choice. God saves men against or in spite of their will while condemning others against/inspire of their will.

And to wrap it up, if man can't lose their salvation because it is God's work, then God is responsible for sending dozens to hell because He refuses to work salvation in them. So Jesus dies for all mankind, but then God LIMITS access to Calvary to all but a few.

I know you will retort that God is not obliged to save anybody, to which I will ask, why then did Jesus die for ALL? Jesus could only die for all if God wills to save all

So once again, DID JESUS DIE FOR ALL?

davidiyke:
My God is not into "Baba Ijebu" business. There are several fortune tellers for you. If and when there is a NEED God REVEALS!

That's a lengthy no.
You have not given me a reason to trust you

So I type the name of JESUS in cap and it comes out in lower case.

Look
JESUS
J.E.S.U.S
Acts 4:12 (KJV)
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Philipians 2:10-11(KJV)
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

ABDULADINO:
[size=3pt]We can argue all we want but it won't change a thing. I had never said Jesus died for a few. I wonder where you got that concept from. Paul by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit said the gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel who pursued a law of righteousness has not attained it. Why Not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works.( Romans 9:30-32).

And this is exactly what you are advancing here as if it is by do's and don'ts we can keep our salvation, remember Paul warnings to the gentile church in Galatia.." Dis you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? (Gal 3:2b-3)...

So you see it is with the help of the Holy Spirit that man can live a rigtheous life with zeal for without Him we can do nothing. It is important to note that man has absolutely no part in salvation. If he has Israel would have been saved..."For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.But God found fault with the people.( Heb 8:7-8a).

And concerning election i really do wonder why you could evade clear scriptures that says before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad- in order that God purpose in election might stand, not by works but by him who calls-she was told the older will serve the younger..just as it is written Jacob i loved, but Esau i hated....so God hardens who he wants to harden and have mercy on whom he wants to have mercy...( Romans 9)..Maybe you can call sadistic and reckless here because we are not the ones who wrote these scriptures... Israel has indeed experienced a hardening in part until THE FULL NUMBER OF GENTILES has come in and so all israel will be saved... So God is fully aware of the people that will be saved, to call Him a sadist is your cup of tea..If he is not aware of the numbers he wouldn't have quoted an exact figure of 144,000 sealed tribe in Israel in revelation.

It is not of him who wills or runs but it is God that shows mercy.

Truth be told you don't mix law with grace, when you sought to establish your own righteousness, thinking it will save you then you will receive the shock of your life when Jesus comes....Shalom.[/size]

Ayoku777 asked a simple question;
DID JESUS DIE FOR ALL MEN?
Or did God ever have a plan for saving all men?