₦airaland Forum

BraveGuy:
https://www.nairaland.com/1963306/read-claim-atheism#27385634

Atheists CAN'T argue against this guy!
There is MEDICAL proof that defies scientists!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2797764/what-heaven-s-really-like-leading-brain-surgeon-says-s-read-testimony-scoff-just-shake-beliefs.html

"What is unique in my case is that I am, as far as scientific records show, the only person to have travelled to this heavenly dimension with the cortex in complete shut-down, while under minute observation throughout.

There are medical records for every minute of my coma, and none of them show any indication of brain activity. In other words, as far as neuroscience can say, my journey was not something happening inside my head."

DMT is endogenous, remember? Maybe this will help jolt your memory.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23881860

Emmalot121:
I am not here to prove silly that God(of Bible) exist, but here to defend my FAITH .

You couldn't prove that Yahweh exists dude. Atheists succumb to evidence. I'm only here because I know you guys are saying rubbish.

Present real evidence for Jesus, evidence worthy of the claims made in the bible, and everyone here will follow him, even the entire Muslim section.

alexis:
Weah96



I didn't assign any meaning - I said he made a statement in his book and I don't agree with it. If you cared to look up the statement you would have been able to state if I was mis-representing Richard or not. I asked you to confirm but instead you kept going around in circles as always.



I wanted you to post the source so we can refer to it. I will do mine:

Isaiah 7:14 reads, "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: the virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel." Quoting Isaiah 7:14, Matthew 1:23 reads, "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel - which means, 'God with us.'" Christians point to this "virgin birth" as evidence of Messianic prophecy fulfilled by Jesus. Is this a valid example of fulfilled prophecy? Is Isaiah 7:14 predicting the virgin birth of Jesus? Is "virgin" even the proper translation of the Hebrew word used in Isaiah 7:14?

The Hebrew word in Isaiah 7:14 is "almah," and its inherent meaning is "young woman." "Almah" can mean "virgin," as young unmarried women in ancient Hebrew culture were assumed to be virgins. Again, though, the word does not necessarily imply virginity. "Almah" occurs seven times in the Hebrew Scriptures (Genesis 24:43; Exodus 2:8; Psalm 68:25; Proverbs 30:19; Song of Solomon 1:3; 6:8; Isaiah 7:14). None of these instances demands the meaning "virgin," but neither do they deny the possible meaning of "virgin." There is no conclusive argument for "almah" in Isaiah 7:14 being either "young woman" or "virgin." However, it is interesting to note, that in the 3rd century B.C., when a panel of Hebrew scholars and Jewish rabbis began the process of translating the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek, they used the specific Greek word for virgin, "parthenos" not the more generic Greek word for "young woman."

The Septuagint translators, 200+ years before the birth of Christ, and with no inherent belief in a "virgin birth," translated "almah" in Isaiah 7:14 as "virgin," not "young woman." This gives evidence that "virgin" is a possible, even likely, meaning of the term.

The source I have quoted is the Septuagint; this manuscript was compiled by Jews and Hebrew scholars 200 years before Christ so there were no Christians then and Matthew wasn't even born.

It would have been nice if you had attached some quotation marks to your comment, since the entire thing was copied directly from a website.

For a second, I thought you had paraphrased, at least. But no matter, back to the nitty gritty.

You do raise an interesting point, but I'm afraid that I haven't the time to post the length reply required to address it.

You can find a refutation of your contention at the link below:
http://infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/virginprophecy.html

Btw, I'm noticing a sudden reverence for the translators of the septuagint. Pray tell, how come the bible you carry around is missing about 20 of the books that they translated?

Misogynist2014:
Your logic is logically flawed. All what I gained from this write up is that its possible that a design exists without a designer. You capped it up by using irrelevant examples. Science itself that accuses religion that God(an infinite creature) must have been created, argue that it is not LOGICAL to say matter cannot be created or destroyed, just because its impossible on EARTH, when justifying the Big bang. Can you see for yourself? Is this not synonymous to the Christian arguement that its impossible to compare human nature to that of a Spirit. In fact, does it not take much faith to believe that a complex universe like this has no designer? Look at yourself, and nature around you, look around again(if possible, go outside to view nature), are we not to complex to be a design without a designer? Science is searching for the cure of ebola and AIDs, how can a design without a designer guarantee a cure?
If God doesn't exist, how did magic come into existence? One guy was stüpid enough to tell me magic doesn't exist. Another fööl told me if magic exist, then its independent of gods. I laughed. I told them, go to sango worshipers, with them, your silly questions are easily solved.
The Bible is a very powerful historical record, telling us how mankind was created after the GAP THEORY http://www.jesus-is-savior.com /Evolution%20Hoax /gap_theorists_defended.htmto enjoy and worship God on earth and how sin came into the world, which created suffering and death both in human and animal world. It tells us how mankind went after gods, who tell them to do abominable things like human sacrifice and killing of twins. It tells us how men like Abraham, Istrael served God, which led God to prefer the Israelites and how God dealt severely with Egypt, how Israelites crossed the Red Sea, and how the great wall of Jerico fell(all of which are traceable in history.)
It tells us about how Israelites also went after gods, which made God angry, in which they were severely dealt with, from invasion of Egypt, to Babylonian siege, to Roman siege and finally the HOLOCAUST. It tells us about a wonderful event which happend over 2000 years ago, when God sent his Son to the world, the gory which he passed through and the promise of the second coming.
Many argue that there are many gods, but let me give you a simple method of eliminating these gods, their account of genesis(what are you building if your foundation is very weak), if they are made by hands(a true God can't be made with human hands), If they desire fetish things like blood(true God does not require the blood of his creatures),

Are you serious? Yahweh isn't into fetish things like sacrificing his own children to himself? Hahaha. Dude, this is some comic book stuff.

Nobody said anything about a design without a designer. We just don't want you to simply make up a designer for the hell of it, as you're obviously doing. It's better to plead ignorance and speak the truth, than spew arrogant guesses disguised as humility.

Call the cops.

alexis:
You are entitled to your own opinion. However, don't be dishonest and said I misquoted someone when you didn't care to look up what I said. You left the Isaiah 7:14 question when I asked you for the Hebrew manuscript you mentioned about the Jesus birth not coming from a Virgin, now you are here saying something that you can't back up. That is why I usually make fun of you because I have learned not to take you serious.

Misquoted? Who said anything about a misquotation? You posted a quote from Richard Dawkins and then went on to tell us what he meant. That was not what that quotation said, you assigned your own meaning to a relatively benign comment. Nobody said anything about a misquote.

As far as Isaiah, I showed you a passage from Jewish scriptures and the word virgin was not mentioned. Isaiah was written in ancient Hebrew, and the word "almah" was used in chapter 7 verse 14. Almah has both a feminine form and a masculine form, both of which refer to youth not sexual experience.

In fact, Isaiah DOES refer to VIRGINS specifically in Isaiah 23:4; 23:12; 37:22; 47:1; and 62:5. He uses a different word.

In genesis 34:2-4, Dinah, who was raped, is called an Almah, which the bible CORRECTLY translates as a damsel or maiden.

Should I post the original parchment with the ancient Hebrew? Is that what you expect me to do?

Dapo777:
If Jesus was God how come he was talking to "God" before his crucifixion, how come he said no one is good except god,So don't call me good.

Like I said,What u have is not freewill,If it was freewill God can't be omniscience. God being omniscience has made freewill impossible. If I should write in a paper the exact thing you are going to type next and you see that after typing,u see exactly the same thing u typed on dat piece of paper,would u think ur will is still Urs or mine?

Please tell them again, bro. If there was such a thing as free will, then the fictional Jesus would not have prayed to himself, asking that his will be carried out.

He would have simply took off running. The will of the fictional Yahweh prevails in ALL situations.

When a little baby girl is savagely r)aped and murdered, it MUST have been Yahweh's will. The r)apist is simply a wooden pawn being manipulated on a chessboard.

xamster:
GOD's way is different from our ways. at the end of the world would he separate his people(cleansed from sin) from the world(unbelievers and sinners).
In this new world, there won't be evil, affliction and suffering ever again.

Play your guessing game and end up in Allah's hell. Hahaha. Not only do you eat pork, but you pray to Jesus. There is a special place in Allah's hell for people who pray to other Gods.

So who gonna win the Manchester United/Chelsea match this weekend? Jesus usually reveals this kind of information to these prophets.

alexis:
Are you daft - I clearly wrote in bold that I disagreed with his view point; not only I but some of his fellow professors. Instead of you to review his book and verify if I am misquoting or quoting the man - you come here and start talking crap - why do you always insist on being stupi.d?

Post as many insults as you want, this remains a public forum and fair minded people will draw their own conclusions. You clearly have nothing else to say.

alexis:
Dude - why do you insist on being stu.pid. Go read his book and confirm it or not. Stop opening your mouth and saying trash you haven't confirmed

You posted the quote and assigned your meaning to his words. Why did you post the quote instead of referring everyone to his book?

RikoduoSennin:
Try reading another bible translation, compare them. What is even the meaning of the word "Evidence" as translated in KJV.

Hebrews 11 New International Version (NIV)

Faith in Action
11 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.


Is this one better? Do you see it now? Faith IS the ASSURANCE itself. There is no EVIDENCE just FAITH. That's why people walk on water, snakes talk, humans prance around weeks after they were buried, and virgins give birth without human seed. These things are unsupported by common sense and reality. They don't occur in nature.

The only evidence available which proves that snakes talk and virgins give birth is BLIND FAITH. Your faith is the proof. It's kindergarten antics, to be honest. Remember when you would ask a friend in school a question, and he would repeat the same question back to you? That is what FAITH is doing to those of us who depend on our senses.

alexis:
pesty100



Richard Dawkins said evolution is the explanation for the existence and the variation for all of life - THAT IS SIMPLY FALSE. I am not the only one that share such views

Richard Dawkins didn't say that evolution knows how life began. You're making a big deal out of nothing. You've heard of natural selection. It does explain the existence and variation of life.

MrPresident1:
There will be no time for repentance when it comes. Noah was the local nutcase during his time, just like it appears we are the nutcases of Nairaland now.

Obi Okonkwo was apprehensive of the intentions of the first pale men who showed up. Someone should have listened to him.

JMAN05:
No, faith is backed by evidence. The scriptures define faith as "...the EVIDENT demonstration of realities that are not seen". Heb 11:1.

Do I look like a mumu to you? That is NOT what Hebrews 11:1 says. Stop LYING.

It doesn't even make sense. Faith requires no evidence, that's the whole point. Here's what Hebrews 11 really says:

Hebrews 11 King James Version (KJV)

11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.


Do you see now? The EVIDENCE of unseen things is the FAITH itself, not real evidence.

pesty100:
When I bought my phone, a manual came with it, have been using this phone for years now and I haven't read the manual. The vendor tell you about upgrades, gives support e.t.c . But are you saying if you see a phone on the ground you won't be able to make sense of the phone unless you have spoken to the phone's vendor or read it manual?

A palm tree is more closely related to a mango tree than to a human being. One doesn't need to know how everything began to recognize that.

Your homeboy has run out of arguments.

alexis:
Weah96



I believe in science and so far the theory of evolution doesn't produce any scientific empirical data or evidence. If there is one, do let me know



And yet evolution can't answer how life began? Your babbling is not going to change that? Can you explain how our universe came about or how life came about in simple terms with empirical data that we can observe and possibly test?



Which evolution are you talking about? Cosmo, macro, micro? Don't be too hasty to show your ignorance

What are you arguing now? You began by saying that evolution is hogwash because it suggests that life originated from non living materials.

I replied by saying that evolution says nothing of the sort, that it is the study of how life has progressed, not how it began.

What is your latest argument now?

MEILYN: . or Maybe she is on her period

That's what he said.

Stars falling from heaven? Do you know what a star is? Hahaha.

If even the closest star were to come crashing down from the "heavens," trust me, there won't be any witnesses left.

In fact, if that star were to travel 100 miles in any direction, we're all in trouble.

Do you know how large the sun is?

theunusualmoon:
......................
You are only giving up because you have been defeated.
Many of you say GOD does not exist today and tomorrow you shout from the rooftops that he commits atrocities and this and that"

It's called satire. We know Yahweh is imaginary, we're only trying to make you deny reality even further.

OLAADEGBU:
There you go, doubting, denying and disobeying the Word of God. Same tactics the serpent used on Eve.

You sound like a native doctor. From the middle east.

alexis:
Weah96



But it does



Isaiah 7:14: That is from the Torah by the way



Let us deal with what you believe in since you don't believe in spirituality. What is the origin of consciousness? Also, can consciousness be perceived by any of the 5 senses?

Don't just write Isaiah 7:14 after reading the biblical version of it. Fair minded people can see that you're being deceptive.

Here is Isaiah 7:14_16 in the Torah

14. Therefore, the Lord, of His own, shall give you a sign; behold, the young woman is with child, and she shall bear a son, and she shall call his name Immanuel. יד. לָכֵן יִתֵּן אֲדֹנָי הוּא לָכֶם אוֹת הִנֵּה הָעַלְמָה הָרָה וְיֹלֶדֶת בֵּן וְקָרָאת שְׁמוֹ עִמָּנוּ אֵל:
15. Cream and honey he shall eat when he knows to reject bad and choose good. טו. חֶמְאָה וּדְבַשׁ יֹאכֵל לְדַעְתּוֹ מָאוֹס בָּרָע וּבָחוֹר בַּטּוֹב:
16. For, when the lad does not yet know to reject bad and choose good, the land whose two kings you dread, shall be abandoned."
L
Where is the virgin?

Regarding your second question, of course, consciousness can be perceived by the senses.

alexis:
pesty100



I will assume you have some scientific background; let's be honest and not play semantics. You don't have to go to wikipedia to copy and paste the definition. A scientific law is a proven and tested phenomena that can be observed, tested and replicated. For example, we can test gravity with relative certainty. We can test and observe the laws of thermodynamics and bio-genesis because we can observe them, repeat them with certainty. Evolution is not even a scientific theory because the hypothesis brought forward can't be supported with any empirical data. It is a theory and that is where it ends.

For example, you have stated clearly that you don't know how life began and evolution has no answer either. You are assuming that it began from chemical reactions when you have no empirical data to support this claim. We can't observe this phenomena, neither can we monitor it to deduce any experimental answers. All you are doing is repeating what others are saying; that is why it's called a THEORY; howbeit not a scientific

My friend, you're a classic creationist. You claim to have studied evolution and yet here you are fuming that its take on the origin of life is absurd. Who's doing the flexing here?

Evolution is not abiogenesis. Even if it turned out that a magic rodent was the creator of the universe, the theory of evolution would remain our best explanation, by far, about how life has progressed to this point.

Evolution doesn't say anything about life descending from non living materials. You need a refund for your courses.

alexis:
Weah96



You referred to the early Hebrew manuscripts, basically the scrolls that were used to compile the Torah. Since you mentioned the manuscripts and/or Torah in this case, can you refer to the specific one you are referring to? I want to avoid any ambiguity regarding the text you mentioned. So, is there a copy of this Hebrew manuscript that I can refer to for me to provide a response or is there a specific part of the Torah that supports your claim

Define soul or spirit.

An entity which is regarded as being the immortal or spiritual part of the person and, though having no physical or material reality, is credited with the functions of thinking and willing, and hence determining all behavior.

I just told you that the original Hebrew scriptures say nothing about any virgin giving birth. What exactly do you want me to show you?

Where did the bible get that idea? Not only does a virgin give birth in the bible, but there was a corresponding prophecy in the old testament about it.

In response to your question about souls and spirits, I believe neither is real. Consciousness, though, is another thing, although there is no indication that it survives death or is immortal.

kemqox:
You sound like a les.bian.
You shall grow to understand the magnitude of threat this thing pose to straight marriages, and procreation.
Or should I pray you get married to a ho.mo man. Then you shall have a bitter taste of unhappy married life.

Homosexuality poses a threat to straight marriages?
Hahaha. Where did you get that idea? Are you gay?

Too many people are having children nowadays. Useless children. Gays are doing everyone a favor.

alexis:
Weah96



Okay, have you read the entire Hebrew manuscripts that the old testament was reconstructed from? Also, can you refer me to the original Hebrew manuscript you are suggesting for us to cross reference.



I promise to answer this question if you can honor me by answering the question I posed earlier - Do you believe that you have a soul or spirit?

I'm referring to Jewish scriptures, collectively referred to as the Torah. There is nothing in them about a virgin giving birth.

Define soul or spirit.

MacCantStopMe:
Is it me or do you just have nothing to say?

he-goats impregnating chickens because of evolution

It's easier for a he goat to impregnate a chicken than for a woman to conceive without the juice of a man.

Hahaha. That girl is lying.

MightySparrow:
Since your curse what has happened to God? Be ready for His curse in rerturn: Action and reaction are equal and opposite.

LOL, God gets mad at the robots he manufactures in his garage? Hahaha.

Do I look like Akpos to you? Anger is an element of mortal life. Immortal people should have no need for anger. At the very least, we wouldn't even begin to understand the reasoning of an immortal person, so we're both making things up.

kemqox:
You devil incarnates can be so fearless to dare even the Maker Of The Universe.
If some of us - the commonest men - with high burning libido of continual urge for sex can have a cause to stay away from conjugal affair at 34, 35 onwards till the right time, what about the one that can starve his flesh of nutrition for 40days and night consecutively?
The one who was founding an ages long ministery for the freedom and civility of mankind?

*****Sobbing*****

Voluntary starvation is one thing, turning down p:ussy is another.

I guess it depends on the girl. Jesus could not have turned down a n)ude Nicki Minaj, even with the silicon seeping through her glutes.

alexis:
Weah96



It's impossible by what standard?



Of course IVF didn't exist then, I am not denying that. Your defense is confined only to what you know Bros. We are going back to the same issue here? You are confined to your 5 senses; I am not. For example, a persons soul can't be measured by the 5 senses but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The possibility of a virgin getting pregnant is impossible for someone limited by their 5 senses; you fit into that category.



You are the evolutionist; tell me. I am guessing by your theory; we all came from a fish or a tadpole.



This is where we defer. I believe God is supreme and can suspend the laws of nature because He created them. I believe it's plausible it was a LIE if the witness was from only one person - however; you have multiple people from different times; that didn't know one another confirming the same story - now, that's not plausible. Why would all the Biblical authors that lived in different times and ages decide to all LIE about the same subject? Most importantly, why would people that were killed for their faith LIE? Martyrs don't make good liars.

First of all, the original Hebrew manuscript which was translated into the old testament says absolutely NOTHING about a virgin giving birth to anyone.
The Christian scriptures were doctored in order to validate the gospels.

Are you saying it's possible for a woman to conceive without the presence of sem)en from a man?

sukkot:
adam in the book of genesis is not talking about the whole world. the world is not 6000 years old. the book of genesis is not necessarily about the creation of human beings on earth. human beings have been on earth before 'adam ' was created. the book of genesis is about the creation of ' Godly men '. and being made in the image of God means these Godly men know all the laws of God. the image of God is his laws. its not a physical image. its like the book of revelation image of the beast. the image of the beast is the characteristics of the beast. the image of God is his characteristics. God has no body. the book is a heavily symbolic and allegorical book.

if you go to the second chapter it names the nations that were on earth before adam was created. ethiopia and egypt etc

This is some deep sh)it.