₦airaland Forum

timmy2409: I have too much faith to be a Christian

I don’t think Christians properly understand the process of de-conversion many of us go through. It’s hard for them to fathom how we screwed up. But basically they think it’s an error of logic, we trusted our own thinking too much, got sucked into hubris, doubt, rationalism, and stopped believing. They assume it was probably mostly a social rebellion against our loving family, probably because we were hurt as children somehow. They think Becoming Atheist is a childish play for attention or emotional revenge of some sort; that we do this just to hurt Christians.

But a lot of non-believing friends of mine used to be, like me, very passionate Christians. I was passionately Christian for years. I was very public about it. I prayed publicly. I was an Acolyte. I even studied theology.

The problem was I learned far too much about historical Christianity. I learned that the Church Fathers were mostly ruthless, self-centered assholes who lied, cheated, tricked, stole and betrayed each other, trying to dominate their political agendas through theological maneuvering. I learned the core dogma of today’s Christianity evolved over a thousand years, mostly by accident, and reversed its stance on crucial issues several times.

I learned the Bible is a mashup of philosophy and theology and mythology from dozens of early cultures – a case of plagiarism so obvious that word-for-word passages from Greek plays, mystery cult scripts, and magical papyri can still be found today.

Knowing all of these things, I came up with a new appreciation for the flaws of Christianity.

If God exists, I reasoned, he certainly would have done a better job than this.

I don’t really care whether God exists or whether he doesn’t exist. I think arguing over that precise point holds little value.

I’m not going to prove to a believer that he doesn’t, and they aren’t going to prove to me that he does.

But even if someone could prove to me ontologically, definitely, absolutely, in the existence of God, I could still prove to them – historically – that most of the Bible never happened, that there’s no way an omnipotent and omniscient God could have made such as absolute mess of everything, and still use this shoddy, cobbled together, detestably simple-minded belief system as the final judgment criteria for our eternal souls.

For me, belief in God automatically rules out Christianity. In other words, whether or not God exists, Christianity is bunk.

But IF he exists, he goes against all common definitions of him (Good, Merciful, Forgiving, Wise). If Christianity is true, God is automatically a jerk, a tyrant, a fool, an amateur (which is why the Gnostics called him Demiurge – not the real God at all, just a stupid kid playing god and making a mess). And, since by St. Anselm’s definition, God must be the highest thought that can be thunk, the god of Christianity can not be the real God.

The reasons I’m not Christian have nothing to do with belief in God; and they have nothing to do with the values and morals or Christianity. (Although, while I used to agree with the humble/Buddhist passive acceptance of everything, I’ve changed for a much more Promethean, Faustian, Puritan work ethic of making lots of great stuff and changing the world).

By Derek Murphy (Source: http://www.holyblasphemy.net/i-dont-have-enough-faith-to-be-an-atheist-but-i-have-too-much-faith-to-be-a-christian/)

True, the majority of Christians only know a handful of Bible verses. S)hit, the majority of people don't like to read anything period. The bible is dropped on Sunday and picked up the following Sunday. If people compared the attributes of their Gods to reality, they would notice that something is wrong. The coin does not fit into the slot.

timmy2409: Original or copy, you decide.


The problem for Jesus is that all these deities are much older than him. You don't have to be very bright to see where the authors of the Gospels got their "divine inspiration" when they created the Jewish version of the popular God-Man/ World-Saviour of Antiquity.


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Thank you. I've always wanted to write up one of these.

I'm way too tired (and lazy at the moment) to debunk the piece written by this Indian dude Vittachi. However, I will provide you with the link to someone who obviously had a lot more energy than I have right now.

http://whyevolutionistrue./2014/07/13/confused-science-writer-claims-that-atheists-might-not-exist/

The Christian God is like a loan shark, except loan sharks only break your legs and tell you to have their money when they return. This thing called God will burn you FOREVER. For your own money.

BraveGuy: I think it's better to put aside childish comments, I asked a question are you ready to refute it?

I wished you could make sense for once, then I would have gladly answered you.

Why do you care about Israel? Why does your God care about Israel if he created human beings? Are you worshiping a racist deity? I couldn't make sense to you even if I tried. Your debilitating illness began during childhood, and is one of those that require an extraordinary amount of fortitude to overcome. You believe in having ALL the answers to everything, including claiming to know what happens when people die. I don't. I like the truth.

BraveGuy: So, you have never heard that God's rain of goodness falls upon the just and the unjust?

Yet another one of the countless biblical contradictions. How is your God responsible for the prosperity of atheists if the Thing has already promised to send the unjust to hell for ALL ETERNITY?

BraveGuy: I need the best atheist among you to refute the accurate prediction of the birth of the nation of Israel in ONE day!

I don't think that I could care any less about the state of Israel. I believe that Hitler had a point about the Jews and their manipulation of currency and banks. What he then considered a conspiracy of financiers has grown one thousand fold ever since 1945. So EFF Israel.
Secondly, Jews think that the writers of the Bible were idiots and liars. They don't practice the idolatry of human worship like Christians, they don't believe in the nonsense that is original sin, and they don't believe in hell. So go ahead and learn their history, just don't forget how much the people who own that history disagree with your position. And the authors came from THEIR country!! Do you think that Israelis would ever accept a Nigerian "prophet" who has been widely ridiculed throughout Nigeria as their God?

BraveGuy: Ok, show me how many people's lives have been TRANSFORMED by the life or nature of Okonkwo. NONE!
Do you know how many thieves, harlots, armed robbers, adulterers, murderers, drunkards, kidnappers, womanizers, etc Jesus Christ has redeemed from their sin? Well, I am one of those sinners, he has saved. If you meet me today and watch me for a week or month, you would think I am a saint (wel I am one now), but I was never like that before my encounter with Christ.

That is the DIFFERENCE!

No man in history has ever been able to help TRANSFORM another life, not Moses, not Muhammad, not Buddha, no man - only Jesus Christ!

What would you make of the millions whose lives have been changed by the Islamic faith? Buddhism is renowned for transforming the lives of vagabonds and criminals. Stop saying what you don't know. Nothing in reality justifies the assumption that Jesus is not a fictional character. Prayers don't get answered, even the most altruistic ones. You could pray to Jesus to heal a random small sick cancer patient, and even recommend that their affliction be transferred to you instead. Nothing will happen. The child will die, as usual, in stark contradiction to what those drug addicted, Jewish authors wrote in their book of fake sorcery.

aliciab: It never ceases to amaze me when these so called ( believers) talk about heaven and hell.I asked my colleague recently about the purpose of hell.What joy can possibly be derived by sending people to burn for eternity for sins committed within a specific earthly life span.I mean let's say a man lived 80 years on earth an committed sin for 75 out of the 80 yrs, he would be doomed for all eternity. Appears really unjust doesn't it? It doesn't make any sense to me.
Also even here on earth sometimes when a person is jailed he could sometimes be entitled to parole for good behavior e.t.c but according to the proponents of hell once you are sent there you remain there.so what's the point.even if you become remorseful no second chance is giving to you.seems cruel doesn't it especially from a religion that preaches love and forgiveness.

Good thing that there isn't a shred of evidence showing that hell is real. All the people running their mouths have NEVER been dead before. All the biblical characters who were resurrected NEVER uttered a single word about hell or heaven. Only a handful of Jewish authors decided one day that there was a place called hell. Outside of those authors, NOTHING. ZILCH.

BraveGuy:

Incredible! You're comparing Chinua Achebe to God, the Bible to "Things Fall Apart". Man is truly fallen!!

In any case, that is the foolishness of the Gospel, it's so simple that those who think they are wise find it incredible. So, it confounds the wise.

I am sorry that I can't help you in terms of practicality, I would have opted to meet you face-to-face, but I live thousands of miles away from you. The thing is that the fact that so MANY people in history have had their lives transformed, with sinners becoming saints, is enough evidence.

Things Fall Apart and the Bible are both works of fiction. Okonkwo and Jesus are just two characters from those two books, respectively. There is no connection between those two characters and reality. If there was, you would have shown me. Instead, you're here typing words.

BraveGuy: Asking for signs and wonders as proof of Christ?

How many signs did God show Pharaoh? 12 signs. Yet he still died and went hell.

I am not a kin of any Pharaoh, so my sign should be independent of whatever your God and Pharaoh had going on between them.

Ayomivic: It will be my pleasure to see an atheist physically face to face. I wanted to see the face of man that says there is no God.

Why do you people repeatedly misrepresent the position of atheists? Can you sit there and tell me that there is no Santa Claus? How would you know?

BraveGuy: If you can believe that story of Thomas Didymus in the Bible, then you have no excuse not to believe the rest of the Gospel of John.

Well, it's a pity that you don't know me in a practical way, then you will know that Christ is not a tale that is told, but a life that is lived in people. He met and transformed me from being a potential criminal and gradually turned my nature. You may believe that or ignore it. However, if you read the Gospel story very well, you will know that it is about God's Spirit living in man.

Depends on what you mean by believe. In Things Fall Apart, Okonkwo was ashamed of his father's notoriety for laziness and debt. Do you believe the story of Okonkwo?

BraveGuy: Do you understand what they are trying to tell you there?

Sorry, you're just too ignorant to be concluding that there is no God. It's truly a fool who will make such conclusions, especially at the face of simple in-your-face evidence!

I never said that there isn't a God. My position is that there is no evidence of a personal God, including Jesus and Allah, just like there is no evidence that Santa Claus is a real person. They are characters in storybooks. If you claim that that Jesus is not a fictional character, then you would have to show me something other than just making the claim with your mouth. Thomas in the bible held the same position when he was informed that Jesus had resurrected. He didn't believe the words out of the mouths of his friends because people lie ALL THE TIME. Jesus didn't banish him to eternal punishment. I don't believe you or the mammals who concocted your holy book. You've got to show me something. Your claims are too heavy to be presented to another person with only your tongue and lips.

BraveGuy: Have you ever checked back in HISTORY of the predictions of Jesus' life and ministry that He would be rejected and crucified?
You are just proving me right that you know so little to base your judgements/decisions in ignorance!

The bible is not a history book, in fact, a lot of claims recorded in it have been rejected by history. The Jews keep very meticulous accounts of their ancestry and they have nothing to say about a faith healer called Jesus. Again I ask, why should I believe you and not the prophet Mohammed? Is this how your Jesus expected to convert people? By using mere words out of the mouths of ordinary human beings? Was he not convincing people with miracles?

How come Jews, God's own handpicked selection of people, don't believe in either hell or Jesus Christ? Why are Africans carrying the banner of a few Jewish apostates?

tdcministry: Please open this link see other revelation the lord show me: http://oluwaseyikelvin.mywapblog.com/category/revelations-1/1.xhtml

Anything in there about Manchester United and the appointment of Louis van Gaal as manager?

BraveGuy: I am not here to twist your arm or try any of these sadistic religious manipulations of the mind. No, you can listen to me if you are a truly intelligent person who is truly ready to reason sensibly instead of being gullible to lies and misinformation. The truth is that I have done my own research and know a little more than the average mind and what I have seen from my own research have convinced ME that the Bible is true.

You're not convinced about anything otherwise you wouldn't be here on behalf of an all powerful authority. Are you a spokesperson for the Hebrew God? Do you know that Jews do not believe in hellfire? Why are you here bothering Africans when Jesus's own chosen people don't believe in him or hellfire? What did your research say about that?

BraveGuy: Sometimes, you guys make me laugh! Seriously!

So, the God of the Bible who has warned REPEATEDLY of the consequences of your belief system is a tyrant?

Yes. There are two options presented to the atheist: believe the writings of anonymous Hebrew men who lived thousands of years ago, or roast for eternity. Sounds like something Kim Jong Un would do. That's why all North Koreans pray to their first president today. If they're caught not worshipping the the grandfather of the current president, their heads come off as punishment.

BraveGuy: You know, Weah96, when a child is being warned of the dangers of the fire he's trying his best to put his finger into, the parent would soon start looking to be wicked to that child, it may grieve the heart of a parent when he lets go so that that child can experience the

The child sees the fire, so the lesson is on him. I don't see hellfire or the dictator who created it. You, his messenger, have never been dead before. Why should I listen to you?

seuntoyo: This really is a very controversial discussion. The Bible says in Luke 6:37 not to judge others.

The bible is a book of judgment and rules. Stating the rules is not the same as rendering judgment.

BraveGuy: Would you be happy to share with me the best shade of black that is white?
The different shades of black will never be a white!

So what difference is there? NONE!

You said that atheists were the TRUE fools because we don't believe in your personal Gods. Muslims believe in God, so are they like 'better' fools or something? Do they get ice water after every 22 months in hell for believing in Allah?

BraveGuy: Call it what you will, what is the point of trying to convert someone who is adamant of facing the consequence of the Hell he denies - no, I am not trying to convert the hardened heart

What makes you think that anyone in his right mind would choose to be roasted eternally? Are atheists pyromaniacs or something? There is no evidence of a fire, or the tyrant who would imagine such a method of torture. Otherwise, I would be as submissive as an al qaeda operative undergoing a waterboarding session.

BraveGuy: The TRUE FOOL was the person described in the Bible some 4,000 years ago.... Psalm 14:1
"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good."

Muslims believe in God, but they are not saved by Christ, so the bible says that they are going to hell. Who is the bigger fool? The atheist who didn't believe in any personal God and wound up in hell, or the Muslim who spent all that time and energy praying to the wrong one?

nwekesimon68: John is dead bt he was the last man to die. He saw heaven and the things in it when he was writting the last book of the bible THE REVELATION. Read revelation 4 more undastanding. Tanks

So basically Jesus was only predicting John's psychedelic vision on the island of Patmos not making a statement about his return per se? Btw, there is no evidence that the author of the book of revelations and the author of the gospel of John are the same person. It is only assumed because it feels better that way.

Common Sense faults Oyedepo's teachings on tithes.

BraveGuy: [color=#990000]There was another man, a scientist and an atheist who confessed that the greatest mistake he made in life was to believe that there is no God. That now, Jesus exists and that Satan even exists. There is heaven and hell but it is too late for him. He begged me to talk to those atheists that God do exist and when they die they are coming to hell and God is not happy about that and that God will take me to a high position and that I should use the opportunity to tell people about eternity in heaven and hell.

What a dumb scientist. Which God is he talking about? If he's talking about Jesus, then why isn't he warning the Hindus and Muslims? Do they not outnumber atheists? Or are they in heaven with the born again Christians?

Have you had anymore visions lately?

manny4life: What happens in the great beyond is not for us to discern

Dude, all Christians know what happens when people die. It says that right in the bible. Are you saying that you don't know what happens when we die? Heaven, the fire, the golden streets and what not? Don't you believe it?

A pair of hands at work is greater than a thousand pairs of hands clasped in prayer. The proof is before your eyes. Keep doing the same thing and expecting different results.

All of these HIV cures, and no one on the news? Your own HIV went into remission, re-occurred, only to go back into remission again. Smh.

Dux01: i am talking about inside the water real life you are talking about movie infact the marine spirit pollution is one reason why there is so much sexual perversion in these films but few people know.

Have you witnessed any mammy water in action outside of nollywood movies? Stop saying what you don't know.