₦airaland Forum

CoolUsername:
It always touches my heart to see someone so invested in the real or imagined plight of another.

Unfortunately this is another misguided attempt and complete waste of energy. Just slightly better than most of the sewage you put up online.

Why are you so angry

theoneJabulani:
I would not call it love if He is threatening us with a fiery abyss

Naah Bro. Its not a threat. Its a choice we need to make based on our freewill.
If we were robots, then it would be debateable...

Scholar8200:
Prove it with verifiable evidence! (afterall atheists would not believe without evidence!)

Yeah
Seun!!! You got to prove it like you said else you owe me

CoolUsername:
Aww... After trolling and other efforts have failed, he's turning to heartfelt essays.

Unfortunately it's the same old arguments and fallacies.

Oh well...

Lol. Now this is one funny guy right here. I just wrote what came to mind. I'm not done with creating threads that will quake your stand, i just have not had the time.

I ddnt know this touched your heart

Awww....







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Seun:
This is plagiarism. I don't believe you wrote this text and drew these pictures by yourself. As a Christian, don't you think plagiarism is a sin?

Naah it isn't, I don't think you will find this text anywhere. I should charge you for defamation.

Another source of conviction in the existence of God, connected with the reason and not with the feelings, impresses me as having much more weight. This follows from the extreme difficulty or rather impossibility of conceiving this immense and wonderful universe, including man with his capability of looking far backwards or far into futurity, as a result of blind chance or necessity. When thus reflecting, I feel compelled to look to a first cause having an intelligent mind in some degree analogous to that of man; and I deserve to be called a theist. - Charles Darwin (The life of Charles Darwin (1902). p60.)



God created us fearfully and wonderfully. Despite the fact that some humans do not accept that all of nature was intentionally designed, we continue to be witnesses to such creative genius and intrinsic design in Nature.
www.nairaland.com/attachments/4404983_screengrab20160924113022edit_jpeg72011c553209aa4b7bac942572a072a6

God showed His creative ability when He created us (humans) in His image and ever since, we have been striving to imitate God in almost everything, exhibiting creative power, showing emotions, exerting authority and assuming control over our respective niches.

Man has a wide range of unlimited abilities and I believe he has only scratched the surface of technological advancement.
Man's level of intelligence and creativity is so unimaginable that it has left majority of humans in awe of the mighty power of a Creator who could give rise to such creative beings.
Many of these beings are naturally intelligent that the full cycle of school has sometimes proven to be a hindrance to the explosion of their creativity. As a matter of fact, most of the brightest minds, inventors and innovators either did not go to school or did not complete the full cycle of school.www.nairaland.com/attachments/4405070_img20160705181335edit_jpeg38c7b6d18f2ca525d45fb6b9ddc950afNon academic genius is not restricted to humans alone.
This might be proof that man needs to look inwards and exploit his God given gifts.


It is also worthy to mention that a minority of humans chose to deny that design is evident in Nature, instead they attribute beauty to a prolonged combination of time, natural materials and chance thereby removing the (Personal) Creator God from the picture.
Personal because of the ability to make choices. God chose to create the universe.www.nairaland.com/attachments/4405015_s18300593edit_jpege1f7afe88a869848f640d50b80909241
It is not surprising that some humans think this way. About 4000 years ago, King David described the denial of Gods existence as:
- Foolishness (Psalm 14:1)(because of the compelling evidence of obvious design) and
- Pride (Psalm 10:4)(because of the pursuit of ones lustful desires).

Pride is one of the major problems of man. It has been the cause of major wars, violence and the dark eras of history. Pride clouds the natural emphatic thought process of man. www.nairaland.com/attachments/4405140_s3682225edit_jpeg91c960b33c8bbed6236aa2503051e386
Whenever man eventually opens his eyes to the results of his pride (such as poverty and starvation), he still blames God for it in arrogance and anger.
However in reality, God has created a world which can provide for man's needs, man still wants to satisfy his greed.
Pride makes its difficult for man to love his neighbour as himself (as commanded by Jesus) and submit to authorities, both man-made and God.

The height of pride is to reject the existence of ones Creator.
The acknowledgment of the creator God basically demands that man lives according to God's will and remain accountable to Him. This places a restriction on the evil desires of man.
However, like a child who feels he has outgrown his parents restrictions, like a child who believes his parents are nothing but stupid old people, like a child who wishes his parents were never alive to guide him, the atheist seeks to impeach God and replace him with any of his creations, any at all (Anything but God)(Romans 1:25).

Yes, atheists may live as normal as any other christian or even better. Their lives may be free of challenges like any other human. (Matthew 5:45). It may seem as if there is no reason to believe in God.

A similar scenario was illustrated in the movie God's not dead where a successful atheist exchanged words with a deeply religious old lady. Their conversation went thus:

Mark (atheist): "You prayed and believed your whole life. Never done anything wrong. And here you are. You're the nicest person I know. I am the meanest. You have dementia. My life is perfect. Explain that to me!"
Mina's Mother: "Sometimes the devil allows people to live a life free of trouble because he doesn't want them turning to God. Their sin is like a jail cell accepted, except it is all nice and comfy and there doesn't seem to be any reason to leave. The door's wide open. Till one day, time runs out, and the cell door slams shut, and suddenly it's too late."
www.nairaland.com/attachments/4405038_s19085465edit_jpeg42df71ab3236aa9d7efd7f0d471d8882Pride distances man from God, launches man into the territory of the enemy and gives the illusion of freedom.

Mina's mother is right. Its all vanity. As William Shakespeare wrote: "Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player. That struts and frets his hour upon the stage. And then is heard no more"
Virginia Woolf even shoots more directly: "In any case life is but a procession of shadows, and God knows why it is that we embrace them so eagerly, and see them depart with such anguish, being shadows."



Atheists may even go further than just disbelieving, to spend the only life they have to invest their time and money relentlessly to lead people away from the gospel (as evident on Nairaland).
In extreme cases, they may push to annhilate religious folks to limit the spread of "superstitions" as acted out by several atheistic communist countries, terror groups such as the League of militant atheists and individual violent parades.

These collective actions goes to show however that it is difficult to completely lack a belief in God (I mean totally), it is much easier to suppress the truth and live a lie. It is much easier to spend enormous amounts of time and energy trying to convince oneself and other people daily that God really does not exist.

It simply goes to show that God has impressed this fact in our hearts. It's why this subject is heavy on the heart of every human (atheists and theists alike) whether they chose to accept it or not.
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If you are an unbeliever reading this, and is not sure on which God i'm talking about out of the 5000+ gods, well, you owe it to yourself to do your own research, to find out the truth irregardless of what you've heard or been taught.
www.nairaland.com/attachments/4404918_s28684729edit_jpeg7af29ac0ae033f6926b6e52facb201ae

Today, we demand that Jesus expresses Himself in our midst when in actuality we have never been as distant from Him as now. Why not humble your heart and seek God in truth and sincerity.
It does not matter if you were born into a christian family or not. You need to do your own independent research to know who Jesus really is.

It also does not matter what you have done, it does not matter what evil has happened. Jesus Christ is waiting with his out stretched arms to welcome you back.
Jesus Christ loves you, died for your sins and has provided a solution to the bridge between man and God caused by the devil.
Indeed, only the lamb of God could take upon the sins of the world, conquer death and seize the keys to the gates of hell.
Hallelujah!!!, Man now has a way out and it remains a choice as God will not take the priviledge of freewill from man. Man can either accept or reject this wonderful offering from God.
There are consequences for our every decision, and the decisionwe make concerning this matter is no different.
www.nairaland.com/attachments/4405149_s22826428edit_jpege2677acd36f56e260acca0bb35c81626
The Good news is Jesus Christ's free gift of salvation. Accept him today and flow the life of God out to other people.

God bless you.

lol.
see them all over the place.
Not one reasonable justification for morality.

The fact remains: The source of morality will forever be a problem for atheism.

All their attempts to explain goodness without God has proven futile.

If atheists can question the source of morality and not just borrow from already established moral structures, it might lead them to the truth.

But dont worry, atheists dont really question everything.

hopefulLandlord:
OP

many pastors are dumping their delusions for atheism

Nathan Pratt: My Journey From the delusion of Christianity To Atheism


Why A Preacher who preached for over 20 years Gave Up On Jesus And Became an Atheist Activist; Jerry DeWitt

Teresa Mcbain; From 20 years as Christian Minister To Full Atheist, Her Story

From Christianity To Atheism, My Explanation

James Morgan Explains His Journey From Being A Christian Pastor To Atheist


Some Muslims are also dumping Islam for atheism

My Story With Islam And How I Became An Atheist.

This man was imprisoned tortured and almost killed for daring to dump Islam for atheism

This woman too has a bounty on her head for daring to dump Islam and becoming an atheist


Another former Muslim details his journey to dumping every god idea


each person started asking questions and realise religion and god idea is Hogwash and make believe

Yes, each person from the history of humanity and about 2% today

Why not allow coldhardtruth do his job, and spray him likes from HopefulLandlord, HopefuLandlord and Hopeful1anlord

Akdegreat:
I'd love to met some people here in person e.g Johnny, winner, sharon and Seun. You guys are great.

Shey na my winner you dey talk. You suppose quote the moniker wella .

Its human to doubt, the way we deal with our doubts speaks volume.

You can PM me bro, lets discuss better.

In the mean time, you can go through these threads of mine.


From christian family to atheism to Jesus Christ

Atheism failed me: Nick watts

How atheist marilyn adamson found God

Craig keener explains his journey to christianity


Christ hating atheist writer becomes christian

Atheist to church planter: Pastor Alin on the deficiency of atheism

Why I gave up on atheism- Paul Kalanithi

Essay causes atheist to seriously question beliefs

Atheist dies, goes to hell and then heaven - shares testimony

From Porn to Purpose: Ex atheist porn star narrates her ordeal

Atheist doctor converts to christianity, shares testimony

Ex atheist College professor shares testimony in near death experience

How a frence atheist became a theologian

Fox news highly reluctant Jesus follower

Scientific atheism to Christ- Jennifer fulwiler

How God messed up my happy atheist life-Nicole cliffe

Born to atheist parents, leads her parents to Christ

Atheist professor holly ordway becomes christian

Atheist professor of Biology converts to christianity

Shelly hundley - an atheist turns to God

.

MrMontella:
i dont know where you're getting your myth's from tho...
BUT ATHEISM HAS A VOICE TODAY BECAUSE THEY BROKE-FREE----NOT SOME CHRISTIANITY B.S

Lol. Broke free from what
Just imagine islam had the type of population or power christianity has today.
Imagine your version of militant atbeism had the type of population or power christianity has today.

Face it. Christianity teaches tolerance, that is why secularism can be ushered into countries that once had state religions (christianity). In islam, this is not the case. We have history to thank for exposing atheistic countries too.

So guy, You ddnt break free from anything. Infact, your voice is minute. If christianity was as wild as islam or militant atheism. You either be quiet or dead.

MrMontella:
smh, and you just said religiousity is part of humanity?
Are you trolling?

No i'm not.

Religiousity/spirituality is different from religion.

The God shaped void.

jonbellion:
exactly the truth does not behave that way

How do you know how the truth behaves

taurus25:
Whether hell was not intended for man or not, before the first words of creation was said, an OMNISCIENT being, in this case, yahweh you belive in, would have known that man would end up there.

If with such knowledge of future events, yahweh still created hell, then, he is not OMNIBENOVELENT.

Man would not end up there. Some men would willfully through their personal volition, end up there.

I do not have the answers to reconcile Gods Omniscient ability with the fall of man, and neither does any human on earth have the answers to all the questions of humanity.

I admit my limits and will not for such reason deny the existence of God.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/4361324_s15215822edit_jpegb88435d9547e58191e02a177cadf3285

GRIMMJOE:
I will advice any sane person to avoid conversations with felixmor1 he is a Lost Psycho- Path

Is he insane because his views differ from yours

MrMontella:
this has been explained..

this has been broken down


thats what researches are for...
It evolved tho..

even animals are conscious..
A bird-brain grasped the ''zero'' concept---a feat which only 3 years old and upwards can achieve..



your definition of chance is misdefined..


what about the deists?
Is God tied to religion?
Hell No!

you really have a wrong perception about atheist bro...

how can you disprove something which was created and given the 3 I's?
i1---Inaudible(generally)
i2---invisible
i3---imperceptible?


oyibo atheists bro?
One has to listen to a white to disbelieve in something?
Is this really what the whites have done to you?
Inferiority?


assuming your version exists...what makes you believe he will answer your questions?
If while on earth and all your talking,gisting,laughing with him he couldnt...
Even when moses asked him of his name---
the supposed name is an ego filled statement like ''mind your business''

*scoffs*

Bro. This is sad!

MrMontella:
Winner01...the piraha people of the amazon jungle have no religion...

Thats right. Adam also had no religion. I cant consider myself to have a religion.

taurus25:
Classical example of an emotional appeal and FEAR OF HELL.

Its very obvious, even if theists try to deny this, that the main reason why many people remain religious that they fear eternal damnation in hell.

Not only is this saddening and pathetic, it is also pityable. Christains have tried severally to rationalize the concept of an all loving god creating hell , by stating that hell wasnt created for man.

However, which ever way you look at it, logically, the concept of hell alone betrays Gods Ominscience and Omnibenovelence.

We dont fear Hell, we have no reason to.
We fear God. Fear here is translated from.the word "yirat" which means reverence. We reverence God.

Hell exists and was not created for man. If you wish it away, it does not change anything.

God is all loving and is also a God of Justics.

He is a lamb and He is a lion.

We dont think about hell. I personally dont think about hell as much as I think about heaven.

Do you have any new arguments or is it still this stale arguments you can bring forth

TomHagen:
Dishonest much? Everyone in Africa before the coming of the Europeans believed in one deity or the other while most acknowledged a Supremo as greater than all others.

I mentioned this earlier. Why do atheists think africans need to go back to atheism as if atheism was ever african

Great thread.

cloudgoddess:
Sigh
The complexity of the human body and such has been thoroughly explained by evolution by natural selection. No atheist is saying humans magically appeared on earth. It was an extremely gradual, natural process. Please try to learn more about it sincerely from valid sources.

Complexity of life will remain a problem for evolution. Through the available evidence, most of the fossils appear at once, fully formed and not gradually. The early humans were species of apes and nothing more. Other transitional fossils attempted to be misinterpreted by evolutionists have been clearly debunked. Some desperate evolutionists have constructed a whole "early human" from just a lone molar tooth. The desperation is obvious, and we know this from history. Many people have learnt about this and it still makes no sense.

cloudgoddess:
You do not have to have a religion to have hope or purpose in life. Both of those things existed for human beings long before religion (an organized set of beliefs about the world from the perspective of a particular culture) was invented. Living life to the fullest can mean different things for different people, but for the most part we humans all crave healthy, satisfying relationships with people who understand and support us, a reliable source of nourishment & health, meaningful work that makes us feel connected to others and useful to our communities, and expressing our creativity and intellect.
All of those things and more can be had without religion.

There is no reason to hold meaning to life in a meaningless inconsequential universe. If all was indeed a product of meaninglessness and chaos, then nothing you and I say matters. Religion was not invented, religion is as old as humanity itself. You have read too many atheist textbooks. Atheists such Sam Harris have conceeded that religion is a natural part of humans, but still go on to spread their version of hate. Religion has always been the internalization of more permanent values.
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All you have said, from satisfying relationships all the way to expression of creativity is wrapped in meaningful exhibitions. This is the reason why theists insist that there is a meaningful purpose behind it all. In real life, humans are meaningful beings. For atheists to preach meaning out of meaninglessness, they need to admit that life itself is a meaningful expression and not just the result of some blind undirected lucky process.

cloudgoddess:
The only reason you believe religion is necessary for a good life is because you have been brainwashed to think so since birth. You've been psychologically manipulated in a way that causes you to tie everything in life into your belief system, which makes it difficult for you to imagine living without it in any meaningful way. But just because your perspective has been narrowed (again, since birth, so it's very strong conditioning) does not mean that other ways of viewing reality are inferior. You're simply biased in favor of a religious worldview because that's what you've been taught through repitition, social control, & fear.

You need to understand that most people born into certain faiths get to a point in their lives where they start to ask questions whise answers will decide whether they remain in the faith or not.
You also need to understand that several people were not born into the faith they are today. I for instance, was irreligious before I found God in a major way.
You need to understandand that most people have their reasons for holding on to particular faiths. Some find meaning, purpose, fulfilment, happiness, relaxation, spiritual satisfaction e.t.c from faith.
You also need to understand that being born into a particular faith says little about the credibility of the faith. Would it be right for me to declare atheism wrong because a kid is born to an atheist family in france?. No. It has to be carefully analysed and argued on other grounds.
You once claimed to practice Zen buddhism right on this forum, even though it is a no-god religion, you practice it for spiritual satisfaction or other reasons best known to you. You need to know that not everyone needs your empty ideas of a "meaningful life without God" until you are willing to provide a better alternative system which may grant the naturally needed spiritual satisfaction to more than 90% of the world's population.
Some of us remain convinced, not through repitition or indoctrination, that there is no better way to live this life than to adhere strictly to Christs commandments which says "Love your neighbour as yourself, Love your enemies.".
If you have a better system, you can present it for careful analysis.

cloudgoddess:
The last part about a Christian being better off than an atheist if God is real, is a fallacy called Pascal's Wager. Where that argument goes wrong is assuming that there is only one god in question. There are thousands of "possible" gods if we look at all the ones worshipped in human history, and a Christian worshipping the "wrong one" is pretty much just as likely to go to hell as the atheist if he's wrong.

You are wrong. Pascals Wager is not a type of fallacy. It makes sense in that it helps to minimize the risks associated with your actions which is an integral part of any productive plan.
Oh yes, there are thousands of possible gods, but again, this says nothing about their credibility. We can objectively look at the facts, records, texts, evidences, claims and lifestyles espoused by each and then make our inferences.

cloudgoddess:
Sigh
The reason I put "possible" in quotes is because with just a little bit of critical consideration & some facts, it's quite easy to see how gods were invented by human imaginations. They have emotions like anger and wrath, they discriminate, they command war. They supposedly created trillions of planets and stars but are unreasonably invested in one tiny planet inhabited by tiny apes. Their descriptions of nature are completely off scientifically (how peculiar, that a God who supposedly created nature wouldn't be able to accurately describe how nature works). And most of all, have a ton of rules about how these apes should & shouldn't live their lives, most which are clearly barbaric, sexist, & written by ancient men..

If man was created in Gods image, then I remain convinced that man could share some of the attributes of God. That explains love and justice.
The christian worldview accounts for the "tiny apes in a tiny speck of dust" as you have provided. King David asked God "What is man, that you are mindful of him?"
God is unimaginably powerful and this power transcends any known human reasoning or intelligence. Our discoveries about the world should leave us in awe of his exceeding greatness. It is understandable that you try to fathom the extent of God's care. Its why you are not God.
It is important to note that The Bible is not a science textbook and was not intended to describe science to us. However, it has been expressly clear on any science subject and most of its scientific descriptions were conceeded by scientists only hundreds of years after the Bible was written

And man is neither an ape nor any animal. Morality, conscience and the mind argues powerfully against this premise.

cloudgoddess:
Also, the idea that atheism is just for white people is ridiculous, and a clear sign of mental slavery. Especially given the fact that whites were historically the ones who forced Christianity onto Africans in the first place (via slave trade & the stripping of our traditional religions). And now because of their increased knowledge & development they're leaving it behind, while Africans foolishly cling to the religion of their slave traders, thinking they're being smart.

Atheism is not for anybody. The world has never been atheistic, Nigeria has never been atheistic.
The inability of the human mind to enclose its scope to the small box of atheistic reality is why atheism has gained little or no traction throughout the history of humanity. Atheism has been well around since the beginning of humanity, it still appeals to less than 10% of the worlds population.
Creation is what humans see daily and its what we mimic. Its why we study science, its why we find purpose.
Africa has always been religious, Not only Africa, The world too. Africa has had terrible and babaric practices. The killing of twins is an example in Nigeria, and in Kenya, a single man is employed to disvirgin young ladies in some community i cant remember at the moment. Africa is still deeply immersed into that system. Its why people mix all sorts of babarism with christianity.
Africa will be great when Good leaders come into play and when the masses are reoriented and when we love our Neighbour as ourselves as Jesus commanded.

Brigham:
Most of you guys no nothing about atheism, probably the word atheist should be changed to something else.

We are probably confused that you keep twisting the meaning of atheism when launching attacks.
Some term atheism as the rejection of dogma, elevation of science, giving reason a chance, expression of intellectual freedom, admission of apathy towards religion, witholdimg conclusion until evidence is found e.t.c. What we know for sure is that atheism is the disbelief in the existence of God or gods.
This is pretty all atheism is, it does not deal with proof or evidence. It is a stand, a stand with the proposition "There is no God". And that proposition needs to be proven as it is in conflict with the default state of man.

Brigham:
Atheist are also concerned about the existential crisis that befalls every conscious being, whether you're 'oyibo' or not, but refuse the explanations of various religions creation stories, not believing in the folklore of medieval shepherds/tribesmen wandering the Arabian desert, African jungles or Indus valley.

There you go. Another definition given.
Maybe atheists need to meet and deliberate on a single definition so we can grasp the picture.

Brigham:
Carl sagan once said 'if by God one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe then there is such a God...but it doesn't make sense to pray to the law of gravity.'

That is a suggestion by Carl sagan that is of zero importance to me and other like minds. I've made several sugesstions today, i'm not sure you'd like to hear all of them.

Brigham:
Bear in mind that there are higher spatial dimensions of reality than we are living at the present, probably responsible for the supernatural causes and effects we feel, I trust with 'time' that science we provide us with answers.

If there are higher spatial dimensions, a fact which virtually all theists have conceeded, Is it not foolish to maintain that this reality is all there is.
And also do you think man-made science is well equipped to answer all the questions of God-made reality. I'm a scientist and i dont think so. I opened a thread on "4 objections to scientific based atheism". You can check it my threads.

Brigham:
At the moment science is making man 'God', we're performing mind blowing surgeries, doing thing religious miracle workers couldn't do, at a time sick people were expected to accept their ailment as the will of God by ecclesiastics.

Man is a god and created in the likeness of the one true God. For this reason, we are limitlessly creative. We will go way further than just performing surgeries in the future.
Miracles is not opposed to surgery or treatment. Jesus Christ did not stay in his home and prayed that people come to know God, He worked.
Similarly, I cant stay in my home and pray alone for food. I have to work.
Its called prayer with works.
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Brigham:
Many of us became agnostics or atheist not because of anger but the dumbness and rigid stances of our men of God when we confront them with existential and ethical questions.

No bro. Trust me. Many become atheists out of anger. In fact anger is one of the crucial motivations of new atheists. Its definately not love. You do not mock or insult the sick if truly they are sick.
I admit that the Nigerian christianity gives little credence to apologetics And it has more to do with our "children shup up!" traditional culture. The Bible advises christians to be ready to give answers to people who asked them in love.
Nonetheless, Questions are no reason for a strong mind to give up. One should press until he has gotten answers before making conclusions.

Brigham:
We have a lot to lose if we believe in God whether he exists (but obscure as you stated) or not, firstly religions limits and restricts men from using their mental faculties, religions require men to accept absurd reasons for life questions and so on.

Religion does not limit men from using their mental faculties. The fact that this has been parrotted severally by new atheists do not make it so. Most of the brightest minds that ever lived were deeply religious. Most religious scientists felt the obligation to know how God created our world and this did not hinder them in any way. Your last sentence was made popular by Dawkins. Dawkins is a very angry man. That sentence is false.

Brigham:
Why should a God that wants you to worship him, refuse to reveal the true way to do that to you, there are hundreds of religions in the world, making guesses to know the right one is wastefully futile. It's a matter of getting the right one or nothing at all. I think God is the loser if I go to hell, heck! He created me, gave me consciousness, I'm like a toy in his supernal hands.

God has not refused to reveal his true nature to us. In fact he has. Man's stubborn does not change that fact. If you think God is the loser, then good for you. Your thoughts dont really matter. You have been provided with a solution, you owe it to yourself to critically weigh the evidence for and against your stance and then decide.
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Brigham:
The truth remains that religion is a very pompous enterprise using an outdated manuals for a modern world, while science remains a self correcting albeit imperfect venture.

I'm sorry my friend, You are not the custodian of the truth. Your opinion is yours and yours alone. God exists either or not man chooses to worship him. Mans philisophies change nothing. Religions helps us to live right, science helps us to develop creativity. Both compliment each other.
God Bless you.

Ranchhoddas:
...and I tend to disagree. The statement is nothing but an exaggeration of the effects of religion in this country. If anything, bad governance leads to hyper-religiousity and not vice-versa. The woman on the street prays for her son to be healed because of the absence of quality, affordable healthcare. The university graduate prays for a job because there are no jobs. I don't see how religion is preventing our leaders from building roads, schools, and providing jobs or constant power.

---

Thailand, Kuwait, Qatar are thriving nations that are highly religious. The problem with Nigeria is nothing but bad leaders. We operate a kakistocracy, the day we start to have competent and selfless leaders, we'll start to make progress and it won't matter if the y are pastors, imams or bishops. I don't see how the removal or reduction of religious behaviour is going to improve our lot. I just don't.

---

Talking about proactivity, all the nations caught up in the Arab Spring were and are still highly religious nations, corrupt governments were toppled and religion or the absence of it was not a factor. I must admit that some of the greatest revolutionists the World has ever seen- che Guevara, Fidel Castro, Mao Zedong, Vladmir Lenin, Lee Kwan Yew ( my heroes, I must add) were hardcore irreligious/atheists but you'd see that their irreligiousity had little to do with what they achieved. Nigerians are docile and can be placated with bags of rice, dropping religion will not change them.

This is serious. You have refused to be blinded and thats a good thing.

JackBizzle:
1) What kind of ignorant Nigerian are you to even argue that Nigeria's problem is not corruption? Greed and corruption have different meanings- please use a dictionary. This is not a point to be debated.

2) Religion started dying when America and Europe were progressing. Enlightenment and industrialization were not religious phenomena. Afterall, when Europe and America were religious, women couldnt vote, slavery was allowed, blasphemy laws were in place. Go and read history, boy.

3) Those countries are secular with a huge number of atheist. If you preached on the bus in any of those countries, you would be thrown out.

4) Christianity is a tool just like any other religion. Both christianity and islam have been used for war and peace. The crusades were a clear example for christian wars. Islam too has a lot of wars on its hands. You just only see the good side of religion not the bad.

5) Atheism is not a religion. Although, there were secular abolitionists of slavery if you dont know. Slavery in some countries was started by christians too. No escaping that. Our colonial slavemasters were christians. No escaping that.

6) Secularism is the reason why atheism is tolerated. If the church ran this country like the vatican, we can expect a lot of oppression from you guys. Secularism allows all religions/beliefs to prosper with no one given special treatment. We run a broken secularism in southern Nigeria.

1) Re read my initial answer to you, the problem of Nigeria and the world remain individuals who revere neither God nor human life.

2)Enlightenment was ushered in to major parts of the world by religion. Religion has never been dying, it has been growing monstrously. You can make yourself happy anyway. Those countries along with other world powers have more religious people than non religious people and are still progressing. Your logic does not work.

3) If you preached atheism like you are doin here, you'd be considered a psycho too. Well, thats the tolerance that atheism offers. Those countries remain secular or irreligious, they are not atheistic. We have had atheistic countries and we still have some, we know how terribly inhuman they are.

4) Christianity, politics, tribalism etc have been used for war. Atheism has been used to destroy the lives of millions in ways christianity could never imagine. Anything can be used for war. However, christianity has been used to acheive world peace and democracy in ways other ideologies could only marvel at.

5)Atheism is a religion. The no-godd religion. Even if it was not a religion, the way you and other folks here are religiously devoted to atheism speaks volume.

6) Christianity is the reason why secularism thrives. In islamic or atheistic countries, they enforce their foollishness on innocent people. You have christianity to forever thank for your freedom to spew B.S against christianity or anything.

JackBizzle:
Lies. Does the bible not tell you that you can beat a slave as long as you dont disfigure him or her? Why do you like to lie? It is in your old testament.

The new testament does not even say anything against slavery. Why isnt anti-slavery in the ten commandments?

The Bible records the history of isrealites and the jewish encyclopaedia as quoted by an atheist like you has made us to understand that slavery in the days of the isrealites is nothing like todays notion of slavery.

The new testament was a record of Jesus' life and actions and also some letters to the church. I dont think the Bible cares about what you want to be there or not. We are christians, Christ gave a commandment: Love your neighbour as yourself.

JackBizzle:
What are you saying.....your last president's name was Goodluck Jonathan. His native name (Ebele) was not even that important to put as his first name.

We all know that christians and muslims enjoy destroying shrines. How many threads have we seen pastors doing so? Abegi....just stop the lies.

Herbert Macaulay and David Oyedepo no be yoruba? David na yoruba name?

We all have native names. If you were a sincere person, your moniker wont be JackBizzle. It would reflect your traditional heritage.

I dont care what pastors do. I only care what Jesus did and is doing.

JackBizzle na Nigerian name. Why not practise what you preach

JackBizzle:
What is my business with olympics? Stop the strawman.

The church and christianity promotes ignorance. Churches mostly do not engage in family planning. They hate promoting the use of condoms. They like baby dedication and blessings.

But you've been using strawman fallacies to uphold your hate na The Church promotes love for fellow humans as christ commanded. That is what a church should do.
Universities do not engage in family planning See how that sounds.
Stop being silly, Many churches engage in sex education, godly dating and other forms of leisure and enlightenment.
If an illiterate decides to have 20 children despite education, the church wont reject him like atheism. We dont reject people.

JackBizzle:
-Will you sharrap. Nigerian artifacts have been carbon dated to 400bc. Black people from Africa remain the oldest set of humans and so how can we descendants of some Jewish guy called Adam or Abraham?

-Many churches preach a lot of ignorance;-anti-evolution, child witches, witches from village, etc

-What of Pastor Adeboye who said that he drove for miles on an empty tank?

-Oyedepo that claims that he slaps witches for Jesus?

-TB Joshua that claims that Russian/American planes bombed his building that fell?

-Pastors that say that preach that wives who cannot pray for 2 hours are not good wives?

We are descendants of Adam not monkeys. Adam was not Jewish. Stop being angry.

Churches do not have time to talk about evolution or other lies. Evolution is untrue, just like the infinity universe theory which was generally accepted by the scientific community was found to be untrue.

Pastor Adeboye or anbody can walk with their heads upside down for all I care as long as God is involved.

Oyedepo does not slap witches for Jesus

A woman and a man should be able to pray and commune with God.
You will keep being angry for a longer time.

JackBizzle:
What are you arguing. Do christian not go for pilgrimage in Isreal with government money?

Haven't politicians been caught tithing with government money and the churches accept it?

Your question is unimportant to me. The question should be "Did Christ command a pilgrimage to isreal or not?"

Do politicians spend money meant for roads on leisure? Well, yes. Does this mean leisure is wrong? No.
Do politicians spend money for govt. projects to build personal estates? Yes. Does this mean building personal estates is wrong? No.

The problem is not only corruption, the problem is with people who neither care about God nor their fellow humans.
Remove your blindfold and Look further than religion for once.

JackBizzle:
Like a religiously confused person, you believe that a country is a chosen one by God. Nevermind that the country (isreal) is one of the most racist countries in the world. A country keen on bullying others on their own land.

Sharrap. which church is that? Sha, any church in Nigeria that has a pic of Jesus in Nigeria is always white. Praise white Jesus

We are a chosen generation called forth to show his excellence. We love isreal and you'd have to go kill yourself on that

No one has a real pic of Jesus. I trust the accounts of Akaine Kramarik and Bob Colton as well as Anna Beams description of Jesus more.
I dont know any white Jesus. I know Jesus, the saviour of the world.

JackBizzle:
Haha, I am not yoruba and neither am I a dog

Ok, JackBizzle the Nigerian.

kingcity:
why are you misquoting me I asked how has religion help us compared to science instead of giving me answer you just found a way chip in atheism into my post?? the point is that we most take science more serious than religion because the later have proven to be more beneficial to us.
cc winner01

Let me also ask you how Arts has helped us compared to psychology. What is wrong with you people.

The non existent feud between science and religion posed by atheists works only for weak people. You are weak. Weak in reasoning.

Religion is not science. Religion, Arts or Commerce may not be able to take me to Lagos, But Science can. This does not mean they oppose each other. Religion is equally as important to man as science. Science is beneficial, religion also is. So is politics.
The atheists only need something to cling to. Nigerians need reorientation and good leaders not the foolishness of atheism. Thats your answer.

JackBizzle:
Before I go in to criticise religion, we must understand certain basic facts

1) The main problem of Nigeria is corruption not religion (religion is further down the list of problems)
2) USA and UK are secular countries. Their development has little to do with religion/christianity
3) In fact, the top 10 most developed countries (HDI) in the world are all secular and very irreligious (Norway, Australia, switzerland, denmark)
4) Religion is a tool like a gun- it can be used for good or bad. Guns are mostly used for bad.
5) Our colonial masters who took slaves from our country were christians.
5) As an atheist, islam is a worse religion than christianity with regards to tolerance.

1) The main problem of Nigeria is not corruption, dishonesty, looting etc, the main problem of nigeria and even the world are people who revere neither God nor human life. People who do not care about human life as long as they are satisfied. Atheists call themselves scientists even though they dont know jack about science, same way some devilish individuals call themselves religious just to acheive their selfish means. Think im lying, read this thread: https://www.nairaland.com/3318021/atheists-should-stop-fighting-religion
2)When USA and UK were majorly religious or even over religious, they prospered rapidly and are still prospering till today despite having far more religious people than non religious people, same goes for most of the world powers such as germany, russia, france etc
3) The countries you mentioned are secular not atheistic. We have seen several atheistic countries in the past and how they unleashed terror in the lives of hundreds of millions. Do not side with secularism, irreligion, science or even religion
4)Religion is a tool not like a gun. Christianity especially has been used to acheive peace and has been credited for the rise and spread of democracy throughout major parts of the world. You have a voice today because of christianity. If Nigeria was fully islamic, we'd both be dead. If Nigeria was fully atheistic, well, If God wills, i might have been dead. Ive given proof of atheistic countries which have existed in the past. Atheism is not the same as irreligion or secularism. Many irreligious people believe in God. Ive led secular groups too. Stand with atheism
5) Our colonial masters who took slaves were both christians and muslims and they can also be credited for the introduction of educational institutes, health and developmental systems of our country. Christianity was also largely influential to the abolition of slavery in our world. Atheism has not solved any major world problems.
6) Christianity is the reason why you are tolerated. You want to know the meaning of tolerance: We have had islamic countries, we have had atheist countries. There have been no officially declared christian country even though we have had and still have the chance. If christianity was like islam or atheism, we would have no problems taking over the world by force this instant.

JackBizzle:
1) Slavery.
-We were first enslaved by Muslims as early as 12th century or even earlier. Then Western white christians came later. The first slave ship was called the "Good Jesus". Slavery is allowed in the holy books of islam and christianity. Muhammad had slaves and the bible tells one how to beat slaves

We have tackled this issue of slavery in many threads, even in kingebukas threads. I wonder whether you people ever get tired of repeating the same thing over and over. Christianity was largely influenced in the abolition of slavery and the introduction of a system that has gotten nigeria to where it is today. its not like Atheism abolished slavery, what has atheism been responsible for except the deaths of millions.

JackBizzle:
2) Destroying Nigerian culture
-most Japanese do not believe in Shintoism but you will see many shinto shrines being taken care of as the shrines make tourism money for the Japanese. Nigerians on the other hand have destroyed their ancestral shrines due to christianity and islam.
-Nigerian names used to have meaning. Now we have people bearing Jacob, Isiah, and Josiah- (Jewish names).
-Hausa language and culture has been destroyed by islam and replaced with Arabic culture- why would a Nigerian's name be Muhammad Mubarak? Is hijab a fulani/hausa dress?
-White wedding is now more important than traditional wedding. Church can now say that two people shouldnt get married because they are from different churches.

You people never preach the retention of our culture or even traditional religions. You only bring it up on attack. None of the traditional cultures of Nigeria is based on a NO-GOD system.
There are several ancient sites and structures still retained till today. Almost every yourba person I know has a yoruba name (If you are yoruba, you know this in your heart.) JackBizzle does not sound anything Nigerian, it sounds like a slave traders name. And this is someone who wants us to embrace our culture. I dont care if its just a moniker, you should atleast practise what you preach. Im sure you have a yoruba name.
White wedding is a foreign culture, not a biblical culture. If churches stop people from getting married, i dont really care. I only care if Jesus has stopped one from getting married.

JackBizzle:
3) Promoting child-birth (against abortion) and therefore overpopulation and misery
-The catholic church hates condoms.
-Every child is seen as a blessing. Rather than preaching family planning, churches and mosques welcome children and baby dedication.
-Why would a driver that can't feed himself have 10 children? !

This is not even a point. WHy blame religion for this I hope you are not the same person who blamed religion for Nigerias lack of gold medals at the olympics so i can know if im wasting my time. This is outrageous. The Nigerian society has taken family planning seriously.
If uneducated people go against such, the chuch cant reject them like you.
A driver who cant feed himself and has 10 kids needs education and reorientation, not the hatred of atheism.

JackBizzle:
4) Promoting ignorance
-Telling people that every problem in their life is as a result of people cursing them from the village
-Telling people that evolution is a lie
-Telling people that children can be witches
-Telling people that we are all descendants of adam and abraham (When Nigerian culture is older than Judaism/Jews)

-WHo are those that tell this people Do not forget that the african traditional religions are highly superstituous and we are deeply immersed into that system
-The church does not have time for evolution, its too busy for that lie. I was taught evolution in school, now i know its a lie based on my objective look at the available evidence.
-No one tells people anything. A child can profess himself/herself to be a witch
-WE are descendants of Adam.
No one knows how old anything really is, so keep your infinite knowledge to yourself.

JackBizzle:
6) Wasting Nigeria's money
-Wasting government money on pilgrimages (both to Isreal and Mecca)
-Government officials tithing with stolen or government funds
-Churches buying private jets (Are jets, jet spare parts and maintenance done by Nigerians?)

Did the Bible ask us to do any of these
-Christianity is non-governmental unlike atheism and islam and has nothing to do with pilgrimage to isreal. A pilgrimage to isreal is not christianic, but do you complain when you hear the names of looters and their looted billions
Are trains, ships and automobile spare parts done by Nigerians?
Can you ever see farther than religion?

JackBizzle:
7) Promoting inferiority complex to foreigners
-Christians undying love for one of the most racist countries in the world- Isreal
-White Jesus (99% of churches have a white jesus when Jesus is most likely dark skinned)
-Muslims undying love for Saudi Arabia
-Some igbos even claim to be Jews
-American pastors are the best
-Arab imams/clerics are the best

WE love isreal, you can go kill yourself.
Jesus is Jesus, we dont worship images. My church does not have any image of Jesus, neither do i.
the rest of your points are bigoted and terribly blind

JackBizzle:
This and many more.

Remain blessed. Ramen!

I dont really have time to break down the stupidity contained in your submission. WHy not open a thread for both of us on this same issue and tag me.

kingcity:
science have been able to explain how babies are formed in the womb, we understand how our body works through science, infact science have been able to explain things which couldn't b4 now...you are talking to me now because of science, what have religion done for you and me?

Thank God for science. God, the greatest scientist created us in his image and has given us the tools needed for our survival. WE will keep mimicking the creativity of God because we were created in that image.
Science has done a lot for the world, not atheism. ATheism is not science. Many of the founders of science were deeply religious. I'm a research scientist and a follower of christ. What has atheism done for you and me?

cc: Isaacmacdon.

JackBizzle:
^^^
cc Kingebukasblog ati Winner01

If you are yoruba, then eranko gidi nie. Olorun be, eniyan lo go.

raphieMontella:
98 ke?
Stop visiting crappy sites okay?

Correct me.

I know you want as many disciples

Lennycool:
So what is your evidence for creation?

Everything is the evidence.

The sudden appearance of animals is what we have seen in the fossil record. Not gradual changes.

https://www.nairaland.com/2917639/much-better-explanation-evolution

Lennycool:
The bolded is so ironic, your speaking about intelligence.
I would say that hen of yours is crazy and it is far from what humans have done. A sense of morality is in all intelligent creatures, it is need to ensure the survival of a specie.

My hen is crazy

So what do you suggest I do for justice's sake?

Jail it

4everGod, I dont think you want to exchange words with this guy.

Lennycool:
There are evidence upon evidence upon evidence supporting evolution, from early human remains two million years ago to dinosaurs remains. There is a mountain of evidence supporting evolution. But where is the evidence for creation? If creation were real and evolution never took place, all skeletons found from whatever time period, would be identical to modern ones. So i ask you where is your evidence

mountain of evidence?

lol.

If monkeys paraded as early humans, or fishes paraded as mammals are proof of evolution, its quite tiring to keep repeating the same thing.

Ive opened a thread on that before.

raphieMontella:
typical cra'y

About 98% of the world is cra'y.

Don't worry my friend, you and the about 2% habour all the wisdom of the earth .