Wirinet's Posts
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David, I still say you ignorance in issues of science is beyond belief. Please read up again so you will know what the word dinosaur means. 1. Not all dinosaurs were gigantic like T.Rex., some were very small. 2. The Large dinosaurs were wiped our by a sudden change in tempt as a result of a cataclysmic event, most probably an asteroid that hit the earth 65million yrs ago. But the smaller ones were able to escape extinction and so was able to evolve into birds. |
jamiru:Jamiru, your definition of evolve and evolution is just in one strict sense as applied to "evolution of species". Evolution itself in a more general sense mean a gradual change. If you have studied any discipline in a higher institution, i am sure you would have studied other types of evoultion. I for example studied evolution of various architectural Styles and element under architecture. Others studies evolution of Societies, some even study evolution of religions. So if you want to talk evolution of Species on earth as proposed by Darwin, then say so. |
If you really want to know the above questions, i am sure if you Google evolution, you will millions of pages explaining any type of evolution you seek to know. Evolution can never end, unless the universe comes to an end, just like a baby born would not stop "evolving" until it dies. |
The gains from becoming an atheist are immeasurable. If what you mean by gain is expecting euphoric happiness or undefined happiness in the "afterlife" or having having a childlike expectation of being under the protection of a "God" mother or father complete with milk and manna, or if happiness means being under the security of following the popular religion or even party, then there is nothing to gain from being an atheist. An atheist's gain is freedom, freedom of his mind from fear, fear of Gods, Devils, Demons, spirits, witches, Pastors, Babalawos and best of all fear of death. The only fear an atheist entertain is fear of armed robbers, mad policemen and most of all fear of religious fanatics, both Christian and Muslim. That freedom is exhilarating. I compare attaining atheism to attaining Buddhahood or attaining Nirvana, you see the whole world as it really is and not through the rose tinted glass of any other person. Attaining atheism is not an easy task, no body converts an atheist, it can can only be attained through hard work, mentally and spiritually. That is why i never attempt to convert any one. When one is ready for it, the person will seek for it. I can in all honesty tell you that i only got to know true happiness until i was able to free my mind from the shackles of religion. |
No, the God of the OT is much different from the God of the NT. The God of the OT was a tribal God, who never required others to worship him except the JEWs. He was only interested in protecting the interest of the Jews and he spoke and only understood their language. That God was as brutal as his people, he kills and direct directed his people to kill others who worshiped other Gods even though he never revealed himself to them the way he revealed himself to the jews, or people who had fertile land. He never even required them to convert, he was only interested in others not converting his people, The Christian God is another proposition altogether, he is three in one god, meaning three gods reside in one God, and they can be at three separate places at the same time. |
Dobosky, your show a lot of deceit in your arguments. I think you see all nigerdeltans as illiterates and uneducated. Then you lie and then turn logic on its head to make a case for your arguments. Heriott=Watt is in Edinburgh, NOT Aberdeen. It is 130miles away from Aberdeen!First of all the real distance between Aberdeen and Edinburgh is not 130miles but 92 miles. We can compare that to the distance between Warri and Asaba. Secondly nobody said the institute or all petroleum related institutes should be built on top of oil wells, but at least the most important one should be built anywhere in the Niger Delta, not in the middle of the desert. Were indegenes will be entitled to many advantages, like higher admission ration ( catchment area) and associated developments associated with important institutions (eg O.A.U) We are tired of your people telling us, that they are born to rule (especially the oil industry) and so site all top management institutions in their back yard and leave the "talakawas" meaning the Nigerdeltans to follow, by preparing them for low level menial jobs. The biggest institutions for oil and gas are STILL in the Niger Delta - the PTI, the Federal Polytechnic being built in Bayelsa and the National Technical Institute for Gas and Petroleum in Bonny. The IPS collaboration between UNIPORT and Ecole Polytechnique is also in the Delta and produces a lot of the grads for oil companies too - are ALL the institutions in the US located on the Gulf Coast?This is one of your most absurd comments, in one breath you said "The biggest institutions for oil and gas are STILL in the Niger Delta", and in the same breath you said "the Federal Polytechnic being built [/b]in Bayelsa and the National Technical Institute for Gas and Petroleum in Bonny. " Please look at the highlighted words and tell me you do not see the irony of your statement, because before now we though the PTI[b] was being converted to a standard university. 4. A Federal University claim should not be muddled into the strategic needs of the oil and gas industry in this case - it has not been done in the past and should not be done now.Before now i regarded you as a highly intellectual person, but i am so disappointed by the above statement. Please tell me what universities (and Technical colleges) in other climes are muddled with. What should our universities be muddled ( research) up with?, how to import petrol? or how to flare more gas?. Nigerian universities are not relevant to peculiar technological needs (thereby resulting in unemployable graduates), because the universities are not "muddled up" with the needs of the Nigerian society. You need to join issues with me - so the graduates from UNIPORT, UNIUYO, RSUT, DELSU, UNIBEN, NDU Wilberforce Island are not enough? Please join issues with me on this one!I say you are a very dishonest person, you are comparing orange with fura. You sited only three federal universities in the whole of the Niger Delta. And when it came to Delta State ( second highest oil producing state)the only university you sited is a state university. What of Bayelsa? You will then go on and castigate the governors for not doing anything with 31% of state allocations (30% of federal revenue), while the Federal government with 55% is not questioned by you. I am sure you are ready to "slaughter" Local Govt Chairmen who collectively have 25% of federal allocations. I am not supporting corruption by Governors or Local Govt. Chairmen, but the truth is the Federal Government is far more corrupt than other tiers of government. |
debosky, I am very alarmed at your posture, you make excuses for the immoral exploitation of the Northern elites of the Niger Delta oil, her land and her people. So you are saying that you have more information than the Niger delta Govs, on the downgrading of PTI, warri and subsequent setting up of a university or an institution in Kaduna. Are you saying that the Nigerdelta is allergic to an institution of higher learning or high management training institute and is only appropriate for low grade management training colleges? I think you would make a better minister of information than Dora. This argument of yours is really annoying; Again they are chasing shadows - instead on focusing on how the allocations for June were spent, they are blowing hot air as usual. The ND states (minus Ondo and CR) received 31% of state allocations (~35bn) in June and we hear nothing about ensuring that is properly used.You are quick to castigate states who receive 31% of a total allocation of about 30% of all revenue; but you do not even ask the monstrous Federal Government to show any thing they have done with the 55% of total revenue they collect every month. Hypocrisy is too mild a word for you. |
Chrisbenogor. You forgot to tell David that the the books included in the Bible was done by vote. There were several other books and gospels that was rejected based on votes. Additionally, the doctrines of Christianity was adopted in the various conventions by vote, even the trinity was accepted on a very narrow margin of votes. |
davidylan:David, I thought we had thoroughly thrashed out this wrong interpretation you have of what a science theory is. Do you stubbornly refuse to learn? Because i am still amazed that a person pursuing a PHD in Biology does not understand and refuse to learn what a science theory is. Every accepted principle/formula/or explanation explaining the set of rules governing a phenomena in science is known as a THEORY. that is why we have the theory of gravity, magnetism, relativity, evolution, quantum, and hundreds of other theories in science. it is never called a fact, although laymen can be excused for regarding it as fact. Is your PHD thesis not based on a theory? or It might be based on testing an hypothesis. |
Davidylan, I presented the following quotes from revelation to show that Jesus himself said every man would be judged according to his works; And the sea gave up the dead which are in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. - Rev20:11 And, behold, i come quickly and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. - Rev22:12 and you just dismissed my observations without any explanation. Do you understand that verse or you're just misquoting it as usual? To start with . . . as long as you're not saved by the precious blood of Jesus you are going to hell even if you were the most moral person on earth.How can you accuse me of misquoting something written in plain english and in black and white, and your answer was not to proffer the correct interpretation to to make assertions outside the quotes in question. For you to be pursuing a PHD in science, your methods of presenting your arguments is very suspect. |
I like Thomas Paine's views on the same question, which i quote below; The theory or doctrine of redemption has for its basis an idea of pecuniary justice, and not that of moral justice.Now here are some quote from Revelation by Jesus himself (Supposedly); And the sea gave up the dead which are in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.- Rev20:11 And, behold, i come quickly and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. - Rev22:12 |
@ Marlbron, I like the way you argue unlike a lot of christians on this forum who get aggressive and resort to insults, at least you present your arguments in a precise manner. I will take you up on your assertions on historical Jesus. All the quote i highlighted in red is false and made up with no backing whatsoever. If you have evidence to back those claims please furnish us with links or refer us to books, so as to confirm your postulations. Remember that the man called Jesus Christ lived in an era of Roman occupation of Israel. The Romans were a big empire, stronger in those days than the USA is currently. They colonised almost the whole world. They had written documents, they had recorded history of there own rulers and governors sent to govern other places. Their recorded history confirmed that a man Jesus christ existed and carried out miraculous work. The documents from their archive confirmes that sometime after christ's death, the emperor Ceaser was sick and could not be cured by his doctors and his healers. He had heard the rumours of a youngman called Jesus Christ who carried out miraculous works throughout israel. He then asked his people to ask his hs governor to summon Pilate to bring the youngman to Rome, so he can cure him. On hearing this, Pilate was alarmed, for Jesus Christ had died and resurrected and he had listened to the Jews who told him that he will be an enemy of Ceaser if he set Jesus Christ free. He sent word to Ceasar that Crist had been killed and after 3 days had resurrected and because he allowed an innocent man to be executed, Ceasr angrily summoned him to Rome. Subsequent events led to the death of Pilate. It wasFirst, there were many men called Jesus during the time of Roman occupation of Palestine, as Jesus was a very common name. so there was not only one man called Jesus. The Romans did not colonize almost the whole world, they colonized only all most of southern Europe, some North African territories - Carthage and Egypt, very few north European territories and some territories territories of Asia Minor - Turkey, persia etc. They never reached india not to talk of China. The People that conquered more than half the World was the British Empire. That was the largest Empire that ever existed. I had not read anywhere than any Caesar knew of the existence of your Jesus not to Talk of sending for him. Please tell us which Caesar was in throne during the time of Jesus and the source of your story. The story of Jesus also going to India to study the Mystical arts is all conjecture with no evidence - historical or Biblical. please give us Biblical Proof that Joseph died before Jesus stated his Ministry. |
I have said so many times that religious debates ALWAYS end in stale mate. This is because as i had also explained religion plays a central role in our lives, it is the fortress within which we live, and anything that as much as attempt to rock that foundation will be vehemently resisted. Now having said that, atheists cannot help matching Christians in their own game. They affect and disturb our lives, in the bus, in the streets, even in our homes, they will not allow you to sleep. They are the ones that feels it is their religious obligation to convert every other person. No other religion is that aggressive ( in terms of conversion). Christians call others ( non believers) all sorts of Names, from sinner, to demon possessed, to anti christ, atheist return in kind by calling them deluded, ignorant and unintelligent. At least you do not find atheists and jews, hindus, buddhist, etc having a go at each other. i believe in Live and Let Live. I had never tried to convert anybody to atheism, even my wife is a christian, and we get along fine as long as she does not see it as an obligation to convert me. I will not even attempt to convert my son. But if he asks questions, i will answer as best as i can and let him choose his own destiny. Whether he is a cele, born again or a Muslim, that will not diminish my love for him. |
Noetic, I sometimes avoid entering a debate with you because you responses are stereotyped, but i decided to enter this one because you are asking specific questions and giving "cogent" reason why you disagree with evolution. Although i disagree with your conclusions of " if evolution cannot explain the existence of life on earth then Genesis must be true". I am sorry i had never seen anyone reason that way. They are lots of things i do not understand and i leave it that way " I Do Not Understand". I might seek explanations but until i find one i understand and agree with. All the questions you raised were raised and answered adequately by scientists, the problem you have with evolution does not fall within the purview of evolution itself, It falls within either biogenesis, biochemistry or molecular biology. Evolution in the strict sense deals with the diversification and differentiation of organisms on the earth surface, as a result of natural selection and survival of the fittest. So your puzzle of how the first life appeared on earth is more directed at Molecular Biologist than evolutionist. Also i do not know your background or your ability to understand science, because i had deduced ( maybe wrongly) from past debates that you do not have adequate scientific background, so i thought you copy davidylans line of arguments since he claims to be a biologist. I can assure you that all your five questions are one and the same, namely how was it that simple inorganic compounds could form a living organic compound. As i said it will be time consuming and difficult to explain every detail to you in just one or a few pages. It might take a text book for you to begin to understand the chemical process involved, but i assure you the answer had been adequately dealt with. To answer your question, you first have to define what you mean by LIFE. Because when we say LIFE people have varied definitions of its meanings. Some can define life and afterlife and beforelife. I had provided my own definition in one of the debates. So lets have your definition of life, then we can go into how life can start from non-life. i claim to be an evolutionist but you have provided me with many evolutionary terms i am unfamilair with, like spontaneous generation and last universal ancestor please explain what they are, after all we are here to learn. |
posakosa:That is bulls. If your parents said that then i am sorry for you, is your dad saying that if your mum (his wife)was raped he will rather divorce her than report the case?. Maybe your parents lives in a backward village in 1900, but in todays world a girls sexual history has little to do with her marriageability. I have seen prostitutes that use to stand on Sanusi Fafunwa marry rich wealthy men. Also many young single mothers find suitable husbands. So because a girl was raped means society should ostracize her?. |
If truly you were raped, then this forum is not the best place to report such. Also the guys pastor is the worse person you should go to. ( do u know how much he is worth in tithes and offerings?). I also do not advocate for praying or wishing him dead. Those work only in fairy tales or in the imagination of religionists. I do not believe in the turn the other cheek bull shiet, i believe in Justice. Someone cannot rape my daughter and asked to turn the other cheek, what should i do give him my wife?. I think you should have gone first straight to the police, then a lawyer ( or a relative who can help), then a medical doctor to ascertain that you were truly raped and also ensured you have not contracted HIV from him, as his report will be crucial in court. If you do not have money or cannot afford a lawyer, go seek help from the many female rights organizations available. The is also the legal aid provided by lagos state government. But Make sure he does not get away with it. If you have not done all these, then you will have no case |
Paleontology helps prove evolution by providing an inverse relationship between complexity of organism (as represented by their fossils) and their age ( the time of their appearance in sedimentary rocks). Meaning the older an organism is the less complex it will be. The most complex organism are like mammals are rarely found in fossils more than a 50 million years. In fact no homo (man)fossil is found in sediments more than 2 million years old and homo sapiens (thinking man) appeared about 200,000 years ago. Any questions? |
horse703:No body is asking you to believe anything. I want to to KNOW, seek knowledge and it shall be given unto you. When you look for information and you disagree with the said information, propound reasons for your disagreements, seek for more info if you do not understand, after all it takes sometimes up to 7 years of intensive study to understand medicine and the functioning of the human body. |
It is a wonder that today in the 21st century such issues as listed below are still subject to arguments. 1. Age of the Universe 2. Age of the Earth 3. Age of geological formation of rocks, oil, coal, etc. 4. Age and existence of Dinosaurs. 5. Ice Ages in the past. 6. Evolution of species, with new species forming and some old species becoming extinct. There are still undiscovered species in the depth of the oceans and some people claim adam named all species and all animals and plants. |
horse703:It is a pity most people do not understand the difference between an hypothesis and a theory which is the first thing we were taught back then, when we were introduced to science in form 3. An hypothesis is usually a speculation used to describe a phenomenon or an data of observed phenomenon. Meanwhile a theory is a testable and verifiable explanation of the said observation, for the conditions of the experiments, by any other person especially peers of the person proposing the theory. So I do not ever remember preformation of genes ever making it to a theory. To be honest with you i had never heard of it until now, so thank you for a bit of education, i will look it up. Also can you tell me how long the theory of "preformation" lasted and who disputed it? was it scientists or was it theologians. Also who proposed the alternative theory? Yes, I an saying that since scientists were right and rome was wrong the same assumption could be applied to evolution. The assumption is right because more than 200 years after Darwin proposed the theory of evolution, it is still the most widely accepted (by scientists) explanation of the formation and diversification of species on earth. The alternative "theory" (creationism) can at best be described as an hypothesis proposed by either ancient Sumerians or Mesopotamians, that is still awaiting proof (any proof). The theory of evolution has been proven again and again, by paleontology, by genome research, by genetic engineering, even by cloning research and a host of others. The only people disputing evolution are religionists, based on their faith or based on an exaggeration of a few disputed areas. The dispute between heliocentriciy and geocentricity was much more fierce than between creation and evolution. Many heliocentrists lost their lives or liberty in the dispute. |
DALLAS (Reuters Life!) – The current struggles between religion and science in areas such as evolution and "intelligent design" are thrown into sharp relief in a new book about the Italian astronomer Galileo and his trial by the Roman Inquisition.Source - http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090720/lf_nm_life/us_books_galileo_1 The same religion vs science debate has not changed since the time of Galileo or even since the time of Copernicus. Religionists try to use a holy book to teach scientists science, or try to explain the observable universe better than scientists. |
Discrimination and segregation are primitive animalistic instinct that a lot of people cannot get over, it arises out of either fear of the unknown or unpredictable or the need for security of our beliefs which we had invested our whole life with. If all humans were the same colour, we will still hate and fight over counties. If there is only one country in the world, we would fight over tribes. If there is only one country and tribe, we would fight over religions If there is only one religion, we would war over sects If there is only one sect, we would war over hierarchy. If every member is equal in the eyes of the religion, we would find something else to segregate ourselves, maybe height or length of nose. If you study human history, a society being the same religion had never guaranteed peace, in fact it is almost a recipe for conflicts. Because different sects always spring up claiming to be the right sect. The reason Christians has a semblance of unity in Nigeria is because they perceive the have a greater enemy - The Muslims. If you remove Muslims from Nigeria, CAN would break up overnight and Pentecostals and Catholics will have a go at each other, same with Catholics and Protestants, by the time Jehovah Witness, Cele, Apostolic Faith and so on enters the mix< you will have a real "roforofo" fight. Some of these pent up anger can be felt in this religion section of Nairaland. The same Scenario will also play our if Nigeria is a Muslim only country, a good example is Iraq, where Shiites and Sunnis are at each others throat. The only remedy to a peaceful society is to allow people to believe what ever they chose to believe a encourage people mixing and interacting freely, there would be some antagonism and some ego bruising but in the long run people will prefer to leave other believers to their "crazy" beliefs. |
It is amazing people could exonerate Lot from the grave sin of INCEST with the excuse that he was drunk, - TWICE. And he and his family were spared because they were said to be the only saint left in Sodom or is it Gomorrah? He must have been a chronic drunkard for him to be drunk two consecutive nights and slept with his two daughters without being aware of it. How did his long john perform if he was drunk to a state of coma?. If the daughter wanted to preserve their fathers blood, why did not go to the next village and him a woman?. So what happened to the children of the incestuous relationship? Did they also try to preserve their father's gene by sleeping with each other?. Lots incestuous relationship today will land him in jail - drunk or not. |
Maybe the world would be a better place if we all could have our exclusive spaces where all other people and views are not welcomed. We should have Muslim, only forums Christian only forum, which should be further subdivided into the thousands of denominations available, atheists should also have their own. Same for Sat guru Marahaji, Ifa, Ekanker, Ogboni, etc. Why stop at Religion? why do we not extend the same concept to all other endeavors and activities? Why should a Christian mix with Muslims in one community? They should live in different segregated communities, their children attend segregated schools, go to segregated markets and shops so they dont see each other. Furthermore Radio and TVs should also not have mixed religious programs, each station should be specific to one religion. What about public buses and transportation, a known atheist must not seat next to a Muslim. We can also take it a step further by separating sexes and ages. I think only then can we see, hear and read only views and people we are comfortable with. |
This tread has degenerated into a tribal "roforofo" fight. Please lets return to civil discussions. Returning to MENDS attack on Atlas Cove, after reading Henry Okah's response to the attack. I now understand that it as a message to Obama on touching Africa's soil, to let him know that all is not well in Nigeria contrary to what Yaradua would have told them at the G8 meeting. A attack on FG facility in Lagos would make world news but an attack in Niger Delta is no longer news. So the attack was not a affront on Yorubas or Lagosians. If FG facilities could be so easily attacked, then I wonder what work the Director of Military Intelligence is doing. Because the attack raises serious concern on the security of our National asserts. And they want to build nuclear power stations. |
Fhemmmy:Honestly, I am not a tribalist but a realist.I am from the Niger Delta, I have lived in Lagos for most of my adult life and i am married to an Igbo. Also I have friends who are Hausa and I tell them my views when we discuss. The day people are allowed to choose their leaders be it chancellor, Governors, Presidents etc is the day we will start on the road to resolving most of our problems. But i am asserting that the FG as represented by the Elites mostly Hausa and Yoruba who are only interested in self preservation would not allow that. They are responsible (by proxy) in choosing most of our leaders. Also you cannot do away with tribe, a constitution should recognize and deal with tribal differences, because that is how we came into the Nigerian state. like Americans recognize ethnic differences between the citizens, that does not make them less patriotic. the main problem with Nigeria is that there are no avenues to pour out grievances. The government would suppress you until you do something drastic like carry arms or go on strike. |
tkb417:You are either too young or too naive. Please educate us how we came about the 1999 constitution. I am waiting, |
Fhemmmy:The Igbos lost the civil war - remember? so the victors (Hausa and Yoruba) are at liberty to dash them what they deem fit. that is how all wars turn out. We are still suffering the effect of the second world war today as the Victors - US and Europe has more say in world affairs than all the other countries added together. |
Fhemmmy:I am not being tribalistic, that is why i mention Hausa and Yoruba political elites, their views do not represent the views of the average Yoruba and Hausa common man, but they are able to manipulate their people to get what they want, especially the Hausa elites. Who is the FG? the people that determine how power and resources are distributed in Nigeria are the Hausa and Yoruba political elites. They have reduced Nigeria to WAZO and BIA. |
tkb417:Igbos are not truly in power, they only get what the Hausa and Yoruba elites gives them as the supposedly, third leg of the WAZOBIA arrangement. |
tkb417:What constitution are you talking of? I wonder if you had ever read the constitution you shout of. The so called constitution is a decree promulgated by Gen. Abdulsalami. So in effect it is a DECREE and not a constitution in the true sense. No other constitution i know of was made that way. When the military took over in 1983, they suspended the constitution (and not abrogated), so why did they not restore the constitution, instead of promulgating a decree. |
These questions are meant for my fellow Niger-deltans who support the actions of MEND: |
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