Ihedinobi:

Poor you. Smh in sorrow.

If you care, see my response to Frosbel.



Are "we" really? You really think "we", by which I think you include me with you guys, are getting anywhere? That's very puzzling.

I'll tell you the grandest statement about the Trinity in the Bible: HEAR O ISRAEL, THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD. Now that statement declares that there is only truly one God (or "one true God", if you prefer, thus rendering all other gods false). If this is so, you realize that making Jesus a God apart from Yahweh is making Him a false God. Either He is God or He is not. If He is God, the Trinity is justified. If He is not, the Trinity is a lie. It cannot be midway.

You do get my point, right?

ijawkid:

Jesus said Yahweh is the only true God...

When u see Jesus ask him if he is the only true God..because no where does the bible refer to Jesus as the ""ONLY"" true God......

You might as well ask if the angels and we humans are false Gods.....
Yahweh called us Gods.....are we false Gods...??

Jesus said the only true God sent him...can't u be satisfied with that??

You still expect Jesus to be that same ""only true God"" that sent him...........

What do u call that??

ijawkid:

Jesus said Yahweh is the only true God...

When u see Jesus ask him if he is the only true God..because no where does the bible refer to Jesus as the ""ONLY"" true God......

You might as well ask if the angels and we humans are false Gods.....
Yahweh called us Gods.....are we false Gods...??

Jesus said the only true God sent him...can't u be satisfied with that??

You still expect Jesus to be that same ""only true God"" that sent him...........

What do u call that??

Ihedinobi:

You know, I've been frustrated and angry with you guys. Then, I was uncaring and amused by you guys. Now, I'm just saddened. But now also, I can wield all three groups of emotion depending on the situation.

Look at your arguments up there. The thing that used to baffle me about frosbel when I first tried to discuss with him was his seeming lack of appreciation for the fact that if one comes up with an understanding of certain verses in the Bible and another questions apparent disagreement between them and another or other verse or verses, one would be breaking the Scriptures by trying to either discount the troublesome passages or giving them meanings that obviously force them to yield to one's interpretations. And you guys are wont to do that.

It shows up in your arguments. When you get to difficult passages you choose the most absurd interpretations and when that just doesn't do, you question the translation. You never at any point realize that you're making excuses for rejecting the true meaning of the Scriptures that you're looking at.

Here you ask me if we're false gods. How about if I ask you if we're God at all? Do you think you have an answer other than to run right back and lift out of context a passage that says to human beings that they are gods? What if instead of lifting verses out of their context, you take account of their contextual meaning? Would the arguments of your opponents hold any merit then?

What if also you considered the position of your opponents that Jesus Christ is true Man and true God, forgetting for an instant how that can be possible? Would it make any sense at all? If Jesus is truly human, is it be too strange that He should say that He was sent by God? If He is truly God, is it strange that He should say that He and the Father are one? If God is a Trinity, is it too strange that He, the Word, could become a man and pray to Him, the Father in Heaven?

The truth is that these things are just the facts that the Bible gives. That it does not make sense to you is of very little moment at all. It doesn't count that you do not understand it. If you demand that you understand it before you believe it, that's your problem. I couldn't be bothered. Nobody becomes part of the Family of God on anyone else's faith but that of the Lord Christ Himself.

frosbel:

Thank You , some people here are not Christians, but new agers that preach universalism , a type of doctrine that inculcates a combination of gnosticism, Hinduism mixed with Christianity, in fact someone here ( no names mentioned ) , has been told that his statements are akin to Hindu and Buddhist teachings.

When you stick to scripture, you can never fail.

You still owe me one sha about pre-existence , we shall discuss later this week

Please send me your mail again and I will reply you. Don't paste your mail or personal info here, not safe.

God bless.

ijawkid:

I don't know where else to paste my email...

I'll have to paste it here....:-)....

I just read up a guys post.....a dutswanni guy...he practices hinduism....

His beliefs and that of the trinitarians aint diFferent one bit.....

They are d same.......

The trinity is all pagan.......

Enigma: You said that the title "Alpha and Omega" is exclusive to God the Father.

All I have done is to show you just one example (there are other examples) where the title "Alpha and Omega" is claimed by Jesus.

Now you are singing a different tune!

Answer this question honestly: does Revelation 22:12 use "Alpha and Omega" for Jesus or not?

ApostlePat:

Yours is an insightful and revelation such as the Apostle John. The Apostle called such people ANTICHRIST operating in the spirit of Antichrist of the end time. Apostle John wrote in II John 1 vs 7, in the New Living Translation, "I say this because many deceivers have gone out into the world. They deny that Jesus Christ came in a real body. Such a person is a deceiver and an antichrist".

What in the world is this Apostle saying to our generation by revelation? The same Apostle wrote in John 1:1 and 14,
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth".

The Apostle John is saying to our generation by revelation that the Word that is God and was with God became flesh or human and dwell among us. This Word is Christ in his pre-existence and this Jesus is God. Any Christian that says Jesus Christ is not God, though not the Father, such Christian is operating in the spirit of Antichrist of the last days.



Again, yours is a kingdom statement filled with the knowledge of the word of God. All New Testament writers agree that Jesus is God that came to us in human form. Apostle Paul confess same eternal truth. In I Timothy 3 vs 16 in the GOD'S WORD® Translation says "The mystery that gives us our reverence for God is acknowledged to be great: He appeared in his human nature, was approved by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was announced throughout the nations, was believed in the world, and was taken to heaven in glory".

The "He" therein is God. Who on earth is this God that appeared in human nature? It was Jesus Christ, not the Father and in this verse Jesus Christ is God. BELOVED, BEWARE OF THE ANTICHRIST SPIRITS AND DECEIVERS IN THE LAST DAYS!

ApostlePat:

Yours is an insightful and revelation such as the Apostle John. The Apostle called such people ANTICHRIST operating in the spirit of Antichrist of the end time. Apostle John wrote in II John 1 vs 7, in the New Living Translation, "I say this because many deceivers have gone out into the world. They deny that Jesus Christ came in a real body. Such a person is a deceiver and an antichrist".

What in the world is this Apostle saying to our generation by revelation? The same Apostle wrote in John 1:1 and 14,
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth".

The Apostle John is saying to our generation by revelation that the Word that is God and was with God became flesh or human and dwell among us. This Word is Christ in his pre-existence and this Jesus is God. Any Christian that says Jesus Christ is not God, though not the Father, such Christian is operating in the spirit of Antichrist of the last days.



Again, yours is a kingdom statement filled with the knowledge of the word of God. All New Testament writers agree that Jesus is God that came to us in human form. Apostle Paul confess same eternal truth. In I Timothy 3 vs 16 in the GOD'S WORD® Translation says "The mystery that gives us our reverence for God is acknowledged to be great: He appeared in his human nature, was approved by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was announced throughout the nations, was believed in the world, and was taken to heaven in glory".

The "He" therein is God. Who on earth is this God that appeared in human nature? It was Jesus Christ, not the Father and in this verse Jesus Christ is God. BELOVED, BEWARE OF THE ANTICHRIST SPIRITS AND DECEIVERS IN THE LAST DAYS!

You know, I've been frustrated and angry with you guys. Then, I was uncaring and amused by you guys. Now, I'm just saddened.

Image123:
Only a dishonest or ignorant person does not approve that there is one God in three Persons, the Blessed Trinity.

ijawkid:

Please enigma abeg u just show me from the scriptures were it says those who do not agree that Jesus is GOD is the anti christ...

Thank you sir!!!!

I throw way salute......

Enigma: . . . I certainly agree that it is the spirit of anti-Christ that makes a person deny that Jesus IS God - no matter that the person may be well intended.

truthislight:

i dont really know what you are unto. . . . .

12 “Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

Enigma: . . . I certainly agree that it is the spirit of anti-Christ that makes a person deny that Jesus IS God - no matter that the person may be well intended.

Ihedinobi:

I'll tell you the grandest statement about the Trinity in the Bible: HEAR O ISRAEL, THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD. Now that statement declares that there is only truly one God (or "one true God", if you prefer, thus rendering all other gods false). If this is so, you realize that making Jesus a God apart from Yahweh is making Him a false God. Either He is God or He is not. If He is God, the Trinity is justified. If He is not, the Trinity is a lie. It cannot be midway.

You do get my point, right?

Ihedinobi:

You know, I've been frustrated and angry with you guys. Then, I was uncaring and amused by you guys. Now, I'm just saddened. But now also, I can wield all three groups of emotion depending on the situation.

Look at your arguments up there. The thing that used to baffle me about frosbel when I first tried to discuss with him was his seeming lack of appreciation for the fact that if one comes up with an understanding of certain verses in the Bible and another questions apparent disagreement between them and another or other verse or verses, one would be breaking the Scriptures by trying to either discount the troublesome passages or giving them meanings that obviously force them to yield to one's interpretations. And you guys are wont to do that.

It shows up in your arguments. When you get to difficult passages you choose the most absurd interpretations and when that just doesn't do, you question the translation. You never at any point realize that you're making excuses for rejecting the true meaning of the Scriptures that you're looking at.

Here you ask me if we're false gods. How about if I ask you if we're God at all? Do you think you have an answer other than to run right back and lift out of context a passage that says to human beings that they are gods? What if instead of lifting verses out of their context, you take account of their contextual meaning? Would the arguments of your opponents hold any merit then?

What if also you considered the position of your opponents that Jesus Christ is true Man and true God, forgetting for an instant how that can be possible? Would it make any sense at all? If Jesus is truly human, is it be too strange that He should say that He was sent by God? If He is truly God, is it strange that He should say that He and the Father are one? If God is a Trinity, is it too strange that He, the Word, could become a man and pray to Him, the Father in Heaven?

The truth is that these things are just the facts that the Bible gives. That it does not make sense to you is of very little moment at all. It doesn't count that you do not understand it. If you demand that you understand it before you believe it, that's your problem. I couldn't be bothered. Nobody becomes part of the Family of God on anyone else's faith but that of the Lord Christ Himself.

Enigma:


The matter is very simple; you only need to answer a simple question honestly. It is sufficient if you answer it truthfully to yourself, you don't have to answer it publicly here.

Is Jesus Christ not the Person referred to as Alpha and Omega in Revelation 22:12? Simples.

Enigma:


The matter is very simple; you only need to answer a simple question honestly. It is sufficient if you answer it truthfully to yourself, you don't have to answer it publicly here.

Is Jesus Christ not the Person referred to as Alpha and Omega in Revelation 22:12? Simples.

ijawkid:



The truth is we can't have ""2 true Gods""

So start choosing which God u wanna serve......

Stop clinging to the 1 God appearing in 3 forms and all that gibberish...

It is clear Yahweh and Christ are 2 seperate individuals.....

Its up to u to choose.....

Choose which God u wanna serve.....

if Jesus said Yahweh is the only true GOD I think you need to sit back and think .....

Your asking if Jesus is a false God or true one is left for you to answer ,not me ...

I stamp my foot and say that Yahweh is the only true God,but u say NO...

You can keep worshipping the triad Gods that's your business.....

You were asking me if we are Gods @ all??

Yahweh said it with his own mouth and Jesus re-iterated those words of Yahweh....

That's why I asked if we are false Gods....

Or if the angels are false Gods...

Since the title ""God "" is what you are obssessed with.......

John 17:3 is there for u to read till thy kingdom come......

The God Jesus worshipped is the only true God......

Boomark:

that does not support trinity in any way. Let me help you understand it.
The Father has no God but our lord Jesus has a God(the Father), me and you, as well as our brothers and sisters have a God. Therefore our God is one. Simple!
This will also help you.
John17:3
3 Now this is eternal life: that they
know you, the only true God, and
Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Ok Jesus is God(i hope you don't mean the Father if it is you have failed),

1. does it make Him greater than or equal to the Father?

2. How does it support the trinity.

Don't shy away from the question

truthislight:

what wont the trinity do to it adherent.

Just look at what it has turn you to.
My sympathy!

frosbel:

Thank You , some people here are not Christians, but new agers that preach universalism , a type of doctrine that inculcates a combination of gnosticism, Hinduism mixed with Christianity, in fact someone here ( no names mentioned ) , has been told that his statements are akin to Hindu and Buddhist teachings.

When you stick to scripture, you can never fail.

Ihedinobi:

Ok, sir Bible scholar. Who then was speaking to Whom in Hebrews 1:8-12?

Boomark:

Am just a person that chose to believe the truth not a scholar.

Hebrews 1:1-12
1 God, who at various times and
in various ways spoke in time
past to the fathers BY THE PROPHETS,
2 has in these last days spoken to
us BY HIS SON, whom He has
appointed heir of all things,
through whom also He made
the worlds;....
8 But to the Son He says: "Your
throne, O God, is forever and
ever; A scepter of righteousness
is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness
and hated lawlessness;
THEREFORE GOD, YOU GOD, has
anointed You With the oil of
gladness more than Your
COMPANIONS."
10 And: "You, LORD, in the
beginning laid the foundation
of the earth, And the heavens
are the work of Your hands.
11 They will perish, but You
remain; And they will all grow
old like a garment;
12 Like a cloak You will fold them
up, And they will be changed.
But You are the same, And Your
years will not fail."

Let me explain it to you.
From verse 1 and 2, do you see the similarity of what the prophets and the Son does for the Father. It is very clear.
Verse 8. God is the one speaking to Christ. The word GOD does not make Him greater than or equal to the Father.
Verse 9 shows that God is His God. And God anointed Him more than His COMPANIONS. Who are they?
By anointing Him, God gave Him everything and made Him Lord over us and every other thing.

If you read this and the book of Hebrew over over again, you will see why trinity is not a Christian thing.

If you continue arguing blindly, you will bring down your integrity. And stop using too much English that makes no point.
God bless.

Ihedinobi:

Oh really. Not a scholar but you're in a hurry to teach everybody this "truth" you have without the expense of scholarship. Typical.

lol...... Sure. Whatever you say, man.

Boomark:

it is not by scholar-ship if not every Christian scholar would have believed in one thing. But by who is humble to know and receive the 'truth'.

I know you are now getting the gist.

Ihedinobi:

Funny guy, lol. You think I'm refusing to continue arguing with you because I've run out of arguments? Typical of you "humble" professors. Hehehehe

I choose to stop because I know when a venture is fruitless. If I thought it were worth it and godly, I'd settle in to make nonsense of your patently contradictory statements.

Put simply, you guys aren't worth the effort. If you were more honest in your approach to Truth-seeking, I would gladly walk with you, but you're not, so...

So long, Mr Humble Truth-possessor.

Enigma: ^^^ That they cannot deal with the passages from Revelation 22 especially shows that it is not very productive engaging them ---- the only use of the exercise has been to provide the counter points for the benefit of others.

Deep Sight:



Yada yada yada. . . . .everyone who does not think Jesus is God is being dishonest abi?

As if you chaps have EVER addressed the many verses in scripture which clearly argue against the trinity or the deity of christ.

LOL.

Ihedinobi:

How else are such citations addressed, ehn? Do you simply take one part of a document that's supposed to be logically coherent in its entirety and turn a blind eye to others that question your interpretation of that one part in any intellectual exercise?

Ihedinobi:

Funny guy, lol. You think I'm refusing to continue arguing with you because I've run out of arguments? Typical of you "humble" professors. Hehehehe

I choose to stop because I know when a venture is fruitless. If I thought it were worth it and godly, I'd settle in to make nonsense of your patently contradictory statements.

Put simply, you guys aren't worth the effort. If you were more honest in your approach to Truth-seeking, I would gladly walk with you, but you're not, so...

So long, Mr Humble Truth-possessor.

Enigma: ^^^ That they cannot deal with the passages from Revelation 22 especially shows that it is not very productive engaging them ---- the only use of the exercise has been to provide the counter points for the benefit of others.