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BOTCHED DIPLOMACY AS Saudi-Arabia Deports 510 More Nigerian Women Pilgrims!! - Politics (6) - Nairaland

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Re: BOTCHED DIPLOMACY AS Saudi-Arabia Deports 510 More Nigerian Women Pilgrims!! by JikanHauwa: 2:53pm On Sep 28, 2012
well, I heard of the pairing from people who have been paired. Can you explain how the hajj commission is allowed to act as Mahram? In what book is that written. I have also heard that a group of fifty women may not need one. But I'd require a reference before believing that.

No relative of mine was involved but I feel their pain as a Woman and a fellow Nigerian. In fact more Importantly as a fellow Muslim.

Maltreating them would be wrong. They did not commit any crime to warrant that. The Nigerian government should seriously address that.

I wasnt defending the Saudis. I am more concerned about earning the respect we so much yearn.

btw, do you work with the hajj commission? who are the 'we' you are talking about. Wow! Hello. First and foremost, I do not work for the Hajj commission. Am not a scholar either. Do you know the people paired personally? Are they close 2 you? Hope it wasnt a hear say. What makes you think only Nigeria does such a thing? A person returned back with his wife when Saudi Authority adamantly refused her entry sayin he is not her husband. He narrated his ordeal in radio and i heard him. Why only Nigerians? Dont ever believe their lies that it wasnt only us. How can the Hajj commission act as Mahram? Well, am sure you know a lot about this issue. It is based on scholars concensus( though some disagree). Hadith from Bukhari and Muslims. Eg some Hadiths in Bukhari( 1038), Muslim( 133), Dawud(250): woman must travel with a Mahram. Mahram is of two types: direct blood relation or not necessarily directly blood( no marriage btw). The most important for such a rule is security and safeness of road. Now things have change! The Hajj commision may act as a protector of pilgrims as its an authority that guide..the number of people travelling(women particularly) is large. There is no concern about security as the woman isnt alone. A hadith of Bukhari(3400) foretold such a time thus leading some scholars to say a Mahram is not necessarily needed for hajj except the lesser hajj. Why do we need Saudi to respect us? Do you know what other nationals do in Saudi? Pakistanis, Indians et al. An uncle of mine nearly died there because of them(pick pocketing using sharp tools). I have more to say...
Re: BOTCHED DIPLOMACY AS Saudi-Arabia Deports 510 More Nigerian Women Pilgrims!! by achi4u(m): 3:01pm On Sep 28, 2012
B.R.E.A.K.I.N.G N.E.W.S

Another 612 pilgrams were deported from s.arabia...reason;

Nigeria gives S.Arabia ultimatum to revise their stance on deporting its people 'na so their king com vex com deport the whole naija guyz wey go hajj dere.lol grin

1 Like

Re: BOTCHED DIPLOMACY AS Saudi-Arabia Deports 510 More Nigerian Women Pilgrims!! by Msauza(m): 3:12pm On Sep 28, 2012
deols:
I was expecting many ignorant comments. I found enough on the first page. Didnt bother reading the next pages. So, I may be saying something already said by somene else.

First, if you are not a Muslim or simply unaware of the principles of hajj, it will do you more good to just keep quiet while the know hows do the talking. This matter goes beyond diplomatic ties. It is a religious one.

Nigerians need to start doing things right so they wont keep facing such ridicule as this.
call it whatever you like, In Islam a Muslim woman is expected to travel in the company of a male relative. could be her brother, husband, son, nephew. But in Nigeria, the hajj board pairs people who never knew each other as husband and wife in order to deceive the Saudis. I never liked that practice and it shouldn't be encouraged by any Muslim. Only God knows how much immorality can ensue from such a practice.

The Nigerian government spends a lot of money sponsoring people for hajj(people who may not even pray five times a day) every year, doing less on the welfare of people who actually pay for hajj. they rent the farthest places away from haram and give one of the worst services to their citizens and then expect to get the respect of other nations?

When we start doing things right, we may then start asking to be treated right.

This is a complete madness. Statistically speaking, females across the globe outnumber the figure of males. This means Islam is more fortunate to have equal number of males and females, impossible.

1 Like

Re: BOTCHED DIPLOMACY AS Saudi-Arabia Deports 510 More Nigerian Women Pilgrims!! by tpia5: 3:14pm On Sep 28, 2012
In Islam a Muslim woman is expected to travel in the company of a male relative. could be her brother, husband, son, nephew.

if a woman has very few male relatives in her family, or if the few are not available, then what happens?

just curious.








The Nigerian government spends a lot of money sponsoring people for hajj(people who may not even pray five times a day) every year, doing less on the welfare of people who actually pay for hajj.


this might be true.

however, the issue is for those who go for hajj, this is considered one of the high points of their lives and is something they look forward to. That's the first time for many of them to get on a plane, travel outside their localities, and see the world. It makes the poverty at home a bit more bearable, somehow.

Nigerians are wired in such a way that they dont feel fulfilled if they do not travel abroad one way or another. Abroad could be middle east (mecca), or for non-muslims, the western world.

they rent the farthest places away from haram

rent where? what does this mean?

are you referring to after their arrival in saudi?



and give one of the worst services to their citizens



and then expect to get the respect of other nations?

that is not the concern of other nations, technically speaking.
Re: BOTCHED DIPLOMACY AS Saudi-Arabia Deports 510 More Nigerian Women Pilgrims!! by Sobams07: 3:43pm On Sep 28, 2012
passionate88: Just like nysc.. This na "batch b"
no worry batch C on d way
Re: BOTCHED DIPLOMACY AS Saudi-Arabia Deports 510 More Nigerian Women Pilgrims!! by jicey: 3:46pm On Sep 28, 2012
We ought to expel their ambassador for this act in addition to asking them to refund all the expenses incurred, what rubbish?
Re: BOTCHED DIPLOMACY AS Saudi-Arabia Deports 510 More Nigerian Women Pilgrims!! by deols(f): 5:11pm On Sep 28, 2012
Jikan Hauwa:
well, I heard of the pairing from people who have been paired. Can you explain how the hajj commission is allowed to act as Mahram? In what book is that written. I have also heard that a group of fifty women may not need one. But I'd require a reference before believing that.

No relative of mine was involved but I feel their pain as a Woman and a fellow Nigerian. In fact more Importantly as a fellow Muslim.

Maltreating them would be wrong. They did not commit any crime to warrant that. The Nigerian government should seriously address that.

I wasnt defending the Saudis. I am more concerned about earning the respect we so much yearn.

btw, do you work with the hajj commission? who are the 'we' you are talking about. Wow! Hello. First and foremost, I do not work for the Hajj commission. Am not a scholar either. Do you know the people paired personally? Are they close 2 you? Hope it wasnt a hear say. What makes you think only Nigeria does such a thing? A person returned back with his wife when Saudi Authority adamantly refused her entry sayin he is not her husband. He narrated his ordeal in radio and i heard him. Why only Nigerians? Dont ever believe their lies that it wasnt only us. How can the Hajj commission act as Mahram? Well, am sure you know a lot about this issue. It is based on scholars concensus( though some disagree). Hadith from Bukhari and Muslims. Eg some Hadiths in Bukhari( 1038), Muslim( 133), Dawud(250): woman must travel with a Mahram. Mahram is of two types: direct blood relation or not necessarily directly blood( no marriage btw). The most important for such a rule is security and safeness of road. Now things have change! The Hajj commision may act as a protector of pilgrims as its an authority that guide..the number of people travelling(women particularly) is large. There is no concern about security as the woman isnt alone. A hadith of Bukhari(3400) foretold such a time thus leading some scholars to say a Mahram is not necessarily needed for hajj except the lesser hajj. Why do we need Saudi to respect us? Do you know what other nationals do in Saudi? Pakistanis, Indians et al. An uncle of mine nearly died there because of them(pick pocketing using sharp tools). I have more to say...

thank you for the reply.I'll try find out more about the mahram thing.

If the Saudis are treatn Nigerians in an unjust manner,the necessary diplomatic tools should be employed to stop it.

people should note that being arab doesnt in anyway make anyone a better Muslim nor does being black make any1 less of that. all the stories about them being racist doesnt shake me in anyway. I worship not the arab god but the God of mankind.

1 Like

Re: BOTCHED DIPLOMACY AS Saudi-Arabia Deports 510 More Nigerian Women Pilgrims!! by Cypost: 5:26pm On Sep 28, 2012
Another waste of tax payers money
When I become the president, first on my priority list will be to abolish these prigrimage waste both xtain n moslem.

Nothing concern govt with person wey wan go haven undecided
Re: BOTCHED DIPLOMACY AS Saudi-Arabia Deports 510 More Nigerian Women Pilgrims!! by JikanHauwa: 6:12pm On Sep 28, 2012
@deols. I like your writing style. You are good writer. Read more about the mahram issue and kindly share with us. Yes, I repeat, Arab are racist particular to African(though not all) They dont even respect our highly placed officials. How can we even use a diplomatic channel they dont even care about. Let us suspend going to Hajj for a while,so they can how much we contribute to their economy(they wouldnt care, I assure you). I know why am angry with them.
Re: BOTCHED DIPLOMACY AS Saudi-Arabia Deports 510 More Nigerian Women Pilgrims!! by Akiika: 6:25pm On Sep 28, 2012
nwabuife: An intriguing development was that the husband of one of the female deportees also returned home with his wife, in protest, when the Saudi Authorities refused to clear his wife, even after explaining that he was the husband of the woman. VERY GOOD... SAUDI ARABI many thanks. Saudi muslins want peace. They don't want people who will come n terrorise their people. This showed dat they are against wat d so called Nigerian muslim are doing in nigeria over d issue of boko haram. Nigeria muslims are not portraying d good image of a true muslims. Is a shame they r rejected by their fellow Muslims. D blood of d innocent is begining to hunt them. Shame to nigeria muslims. Anywhere they go they will see them as boko haram and so b rejected.SHAME!!!

Read what you wrote again, are you making any sense? They were sent back because they didn't follow rules as typical Nigerian does. This rule has been in effect since time immemorial, the hajj commission encouraged pilgrims to disobey the rule, and are facing the music...simple. Must you display extreme religious bigotry at every issue?

1 Like

Re: BOTCHED DIPLOMACY AS Saudi-Arabia Deports 510 More Nigerian Women Pilgrims!! by Akiika: 6:30pm On Sep 28, 2012
This rule has been in effect since time immemorial, the hajj commission encouraged pilgrims to disobey the rule, and are facing the music. On the issue of couple's different last names, there should be a marriage certificate OR a signed note from the leader of your community mosque testifying to your marriage. Once again Nigerians are so used to not following rules that it is almost an abomination to follow any rule. We simply need to be re-colonised.
Re: BOTCHED DIPLOMACY AS Saudi-Arabia Deports 510 More Nigerian Women Pilgrims!! by Nobody: 6:34pm On Sep 28, 2012
Akiika: This rule has been in effect since time immemorial, the hajj commission encouraged pilgrims to disobey the rule, and are facing the music. On the issue of couple's different last names, there should be a marriage certificate OR a signed note from the leader of your community mosque testifying to your marriage. Once again Nigerians are so used to not following rules that it is almost an abomination to follow any rule. We simply need to be re-colonised.

Nobody is supposed to follow any stupi.d rules in the name of religion. Did Allah mandate women to travel only with escorts?
I see Arab women travelling on their own all the time without male escorts.
Re: BOTCHED DIPLOMACY AS Saudi-Arabia Deports 510 More Nigerian Women Pilgrims!! by Akiika: 6:42pm On Sep 28, 2012
Here are the rules that apply to women travelling without their husband

1. Ladies traveling with Mehram shall provide a notarized proof of relationship (i.e. marriage certificate, birth certificate in case of children).

2. Widows/ divorcee ( a notarized copy of death certificate/ copy of dissolution of marriage).

3. Single females over 16 years of age need a notarized affidavit from father stating that they are not married.

4. Ladies over 47 years of age unaccompanied by male family member must send a notarized no objection letter signed by a family member.
Re: BOTCHED DIPLOMACY AS Saudi-Arabia Deports 510 More Nigerian Women Pilgrims!! by Akiika: 6:52pm On Sep 28, 2012
Aigbofa:

Nobody is supposed to follow any stupi.d rules in the name of religion. Did Allah mandate women to travel only with escorts?
I see Arab women travelling on their own all the time without male escorts.

It may be stupi.d to you, but that is the rule. If it's not cool with you, you have the option of visiting bahamas or wherever.
You will be shocked to know the number of women that stays back in Saudi after Hajj to do all kind of unprintable atrocities in the past.
Multiple women can even travel with one man, but get the required proof that you are related...simple. But is in our culture not to follow rules.
FYI...couples don't even share the same room during hajj.
Re: BOTCHED DIPLOMACY AS Saudi-Arabia Deports 510 More Nigerian Women Pilgrims!! by Nobody: 7:03pm On Sep 28, 2012
Akiika:

It may be stupi.d to you, but that is the rule. If it's not cool with you, you have the option of visiting bahamas or wherever.
You will be shocked to know the number of women that stays back in Saudi after Hajj to do all kind of unprintable atrocities in the past.
Multiple women can even travel with one man, but get the required proof that you are related...simple. But is in our culture not to follow rules.
FYI...couples don't even share the same room during hajj.

Do you think if people want to stay back in Saudi Arabia and do unprintable things, getting a man to tag along with them will be a huge obstacle?
If the couples are not together all the time during hajj, what is the point of having a male chaperon?
You are right about Bahamas though, I would rather be there being a chaperon to my girl than being herded around like animals in some desert country.

1 Like

Re: BOTCHED DIPLOMACY AS Saudi-Arabia Deports 510 More Nigerian Women Pilgrims!! by Kemzone2003: 7:19pm On Sep 28, 2012
Hajj Visas
You must comply with all the following requirements:

The applicant must have a passport valid for at least six more months and acceptable both for entry to Saudi Arabia and entry to the next destination; the passport should have at least two empty visa pages adjacent to each other. Each applicant must submit one recent passport size color photograph with a white background. The photograph must be a full-face view in which the visa applicant is facing the camera directly. Side or angled views are NOT accepted. (Some travel agents require two color photos, one for the visa application and the other for the group identification card). The applicant must submit a completed application form filled in with black ink pen or printed; the form must be signed and stamped by the authorized travel agency. The Mahram should write on the application forms complete information on his spouse and children or any relative with whom he is traveling. He should also provide copies of marriage or birth certificates. Women are required to travel for Hajj with a Mahram. Proof of kinship must be submitted with the application form. Any woman over the age of 45 may travel without a Mahram with an organized group, provided she submits a letter of no objection from her Mahram authorizing her to travel for Hajj with the named group. This letter should be notarized. The applicant must be in possession of a non-refundable roundtrip ticket with confirmed reservations. The applicant must submit proof of vaccination for meningitis and ACYW135. For infants and children up to 15 years of age, a vaccination report is required for polio as well as meningitis. Children over 15 years of age should present the same vaccinations requested for adults. The certificate of vaccination should have been issued not more than three years and not less than 10 days prior to entering Saudi Arabia. Each pilgrim should submit two certified checks or cashier checks payable to 'Unified Agents Office' in Jeddah for pilgrimage services (guides, Zamzam water agents, tent accommodation in Mina and Arafat and transportation costs). These checks should include the name and the passport number of the pilgrim and date and place of issue. Each applicant must pay the appropriate fees. Pilgrims have the option to submit one check combining both fees. Children between the ages of seven and fifteen should only pay half of the amount. Children under the age of seven do not need to pay. Please check with the Saudi Consulate in your country for correct charges. Applicants who are not nationals of the country they are applying from should submit documented proof of legal residence status. Passport authorities in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia reserve the right to return (at his or her own expense) any pilgrim who has provided wrong or false information about their residence. No applicant under the legal age of eighteen will be granted a Hajj visa if not accompanied by his family. If the applicant has converted to Islam, an Islamic certificate must be presented which must be notarized by an Islamic Center.

Can children accompany me on Hajj?

Children can accompany their parents. When applying for a visa, you should include their names in your passport and attach their birth certificates. Children and women under 45 should be accompanied by a Mahram (a male relative).

Do I have to pay for the Hajj visas? If yes, how much does it cost?

The Umrah and Hajj visas are free.

For Hajj you need to pay two checks to cover the cost of guides, Zamzam water agents, tent accommodation in Mina and Arafat and transportation costs. Please ask your nearest Saudi Consulate about the current level of these charges.

Ministry of Hajj © 2011

http://www.hajinformation.com/main/t1510.htm

Home Hajj Umrah Ministry of Hajj Other Ministries Audio & Visual Help & Advice Library Français
Re: BOTCHED DIPLOMACY AS Saudi-Arabia Deports 510 More Nigerian Women Pilgrims!! by fortyfeet(m): 7:51pm On Sep 28, 2012
caseless: I'm not happy my nigeria is on this list of countries facing deportation excercise from saudi arabia. As a muslim am deeply touched by this development. May ALLAH help us!
Name the other countries in this your list.
Re: BOTCHED DIPLOMACY AS Saudi-Arabia Deports 510 More Nigerian Women Pilgrims!! by fortyfeet(m): 8:16pm On Sep 28, 2012
Aigbofa:

Africans in turn kill each other in the name of Islam.
This has been recorded as the truth of today. Keep saying the truth!
Re: BOTCHED DIPLOMACY AS Saudi-Arabia Deports 510 More Nigerian Women Pilgrims!! by bigmaut: 9:25pm On Sep 28, 2012
He!he!!he!!! grin grin ;Di laugh in arabic,amhadullah thatis good 4 them,d govt.keep wasting taxpayers money sendin fanatists 2 saudi yr in yr out what has it brought us discord,religious violence,suicde bombing,hatred 4 our fellow countrymen allegance 2 foriegn country & religion we must liberate ourself frm religious slavery if we are 2 move 4ward grin grin grin
Re: BOTCHED DIPLOMACY AS Saudi-Arabia Deports 510 More Nigerian Women Pilgrims!! by bukatyne(f): 10:22pm On Sep 28, 2012
and why do muslim women need male escorts? who escorts the men? the more i want to believe that women are treated equally in islam, the more facts prove otherwise! to d issue @ hand, is it only Nigerian women that were deported? if so, y?
Re: BOTCHED DIPLOMACY AS Saudi-Arabia Deports 510 More Nigerian Women Pilgrims!! by Truckpusher(m): 3:14am On Sep 29, 2012
bukatyne: and why do muslim women need male escorts? who escorts the men? the more i want to believe that women are treated equally in islam, the more facts prove otherwise! to d issue @ hand, is it only Nigerian women that were deported? if so, y?
...Islam sees the woman as a property and most of the Nigerian moslems especially from the northern extract uses it to their own advantage nicely...that means they can marry,divorce and even kill these women at will especially if infidelity is merely suspected or proven thereby keeping behind retinue of children they can't cater for.
Re: BOTCHED DIPLOMACY AS Saudi-Arabia Deports 510 More Nigerian Women Pilgrims!! by Nobody: 3:47am On Sep 29, 2012
Toktee: If there is a catoon of the guy call prophet mohamed you guys will unite under one spirit, that is to kill and to distroy xtians,imagine they even said is against the law of the saudi authourity not the law of God with whom they travel thousands miles to worship, God almighty is evry where,is only prophet mohamed that is in arabian penisula, Meanwhle lets waite the reaction of the federal government


i don't kno what is too big for u to understand in this message and same goes to all of u posting trash........this isn't about religion but failure of Nigerians and her Govt to fulfil basic requirements to enter a particular country!!

Even when u travelled to a country to perform religion rite,say Isreal/jerusalem,U must Fulfil entry requirement into such country!!

That is simply the problem of this country,we re quite unreasonable.... it is never our fault but longtym of neglect from our govt!!!


Nigeria as a country do not follow basic laid down rules but Nepotism/Favouritism rules our fatherland....Bribery is what one must do to gain entry into any institution(job/school/ur right).......

It's simple from ZA,Ghana,British now Saudi......VERY SOON......COTE D' VOIRE,GAMBIA,TOGO,MALY,SOMALIA,NIGER REPUBLIC..........
thats shows but one thing......
NIGERIA IS A JOKE!!!

I SE ILE LO N BA OMO DE ITA (CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME)....THEY VE BASTARDISE OUR COUNTRY AND HER SYSTEM OTHER NATIONS WON'T ALLOW SUCH,never ever hence a nation like ours!!!!!!
Re: BOTCHED DIPLOMACY AS Saudi-Arabia Deports 510 More Nigerian Women Pilgrims!! by Nobody: 4:03am On Sep 29, 2012
.
Re: BOTCHED DIPLOMACY AS Saudi-Arabia Deports 510 More Nigerian Women Pilgrims!! by Nobody: 4:07am On Sep 29, 2012
A backward,undeveloped,retarded NATION where the promise of water,hospital,road,electricity and education is what propel us to VOTE.......!!!!!!!!!

Obey the entry requirement of a nation......fulfil the rules and regulations of such nation and Enjoy ur STAY, afta such and one is treated otherwise then diplomatic brouhaha comes in!

All what Tambuwal and his envoy care abt now na d ''DTA'' grin instead of their mission in Saudi

In a country that is working,three head shall roll down:

chairman natnal hajj commission;
the state concerned hajj commission; and the executives in such commission For causing us this great embarrassment!!!

also, the foreign affairs minister shall explain why his Head should not roll follow....

But, grin we shall sponsor all of them(with ''DTA'' in millions per person) to go and lick Saudi's bumbumwinkhahaha,naijagrin

we shall set up another committee to look into there report from saudi,hahaha Naija lawa!!!
Re: BOTCHED DIPLOMACY AS Saudi-Arabia Deports 510 More Nigerian Women Pilgrims!! by deols(f): 4:46am On Sep 29, 2012
tpia@:


if a woman has very few male relatives in her family, or if the few are not available, then what happens?

just curious.

It is like asking, what if a man does not have the money to go for hajj, what happens?

She automatically falls in the category of people who wish to go for hajj but are not able too. Not being able to could be due to finances, ill health, insanity, immaturity, e.t.c

Actions shall however be judged according to the intention.
Re: BOTCHED DIPLOMACY AS Saudi-Arabia Deports 510 More Nigerian Women Pilgrims!! by deols(f): 4:53am On Sep 29, 2012
Jikan Hauwa: @deols. I like your writing style. You are good writer. Read more about the mahram issue and kindly share with us. Yes, I repeat, Arab are racist particular to African(though not all) They dont even respect our highly placed officials. How can we even use a diplomatic channel they dont even care about. Let us suspend going to Hajj for a while,so they can how much we contribute to their economy(they wouldnt care, I assure you). I know why am angry with them.

thank you, but the racist part, only God Knows. I wish you wouldnt just call all Arabs racist. The ones you know may be but I don't think all of them are.

Whatever the case may be, just remember that the prophet mentioned in his last sermon that an Arab is not superior to others. SO, whoever feels superior because of his race is definitely not following the dictates of the prophet and requires some education.
Re: BOTCHED DIPLOMACY AS Saudi-Arabia Deports 510 More Nigerian Women Pilgrims!! by deols(f): 5:01am On Sep 29, 2012
bukatyne: and why do muslim women need male escorts? who escorts the men? the more i want to believe that women are treated equally in islam, the more facts prove otherwise! to d issue @ hand, is it only Nigerian women that were deported? if so, y?


You people just don't get it? I as a Muslim don't need you to think Islam treats women as equals to men. SO, why do you want to?

Does christianity treat women as equals to men? Isn't submission to the husband preached by the bible? Your hypocrisy makes me laugh. You all act modernized, belonging to the new world whereas your religion says the opposite of what you proclaim.


ok. so, Islam doesn't put men and women in the same positions. They don't have the same social, biological and religious responsibilities. They are seen as two distinct groups whose roles make a synergy, one that makes a perfect society. Any problems you may be having with this is yours, not ours.

1 Like

Re: BOTCHED DIPLOMACY AS Saudi-Arabia Deports 510 More Nigerian Women Pilgrims!! by deols(f): 5:03am On Sep 29, 2012
donroxy: A backward,undeveloped,retarded NATION where the promise of water,hospital,road,electricity and education is what propel us to VOTE.......!!!!!!!!!

Obey the entry requirement of a nation......fulfil the rules and regulations of such nation and Enjoy ur STAY, afta such and one is treated otherwise then diplomatic brouhaha comes in!

All what Tambuwal and his envoy care abt now na d ''DTA'' grin instead of their mission in Saudi

In a country that is working,three head shall roll down:

chairman natnal hajj commission;
the state concerned hajj commission; and the executives in such commission For causing us this great embarrassment!!!

also, the foreign affairs minister shall explain why his Head should not roll follow....

But, grin we shall sponsor all of them(with ''DTA'' in millions per person) to go and lick Saudi's bumbumwinkhahaha,naijagrin

we shall set up another committee to look into there report from saudi,hahaha Naija lawa!!!

I agree with you. These are the real issues but religious bigotry is blindfolding many people here.
Re: BOTCHED DIPLOMACY AS Saudi-Arabia Deports 510 More Nigerian Women Pilgrims!! by fortyfeet(m): 8:38am On Sep 29, 2012
donroxy:


i don't kno what is too big for u to understand in this message and same goes to all of u posting trash........this isn't about religion but failure of Nigerians and her Govt to fulfil basic requirements to enter a particular country!!

Even when u travelled to a country to perform religion rite,say Isreal/jerusalem,U must Fulfil entry requirement into such country!!

That is simply the problem of this country,we re quite unreasonable.... it is never our fault but longtym of neglect from our govt!!!


Nigeria as a country do not follow basic laid down rules but Nepotism/Favouritism rules our fatherland....Bribery is what one must do to gain entry into any institution(job/school/ur right).......

It's simple from ZA,Ghana,British now Saudi......VERY SOON......COTE D' VOIRE,GAMBIA,TOGO,MALY,SOMALIA,NIGER REPUBLIC..........
thats shows but one thing......
NIGERIA IS A JOKE!!!

I SE ILE LO N BA OMO DE ITA (CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME)....THEY VE BASTARDISE OUR COUNTRY AND HER SYSTEM OTHER NATIONS WON'T ALLOW SUCH,never ever hence a nation like ours!!!!!!
What has going to Jerusalem or Mecca got to do with the government of Nigeria. I think its entirely the duty of the religious group to obey their religious laws. And when they don't, you blame the government. Silly thinking indeed. A true pilgrim will resist temptation from every corner. And am sure all the people involved in this pilgrim arangement are strictly muslim, same as christians, so why can't they obey thier respective religious laws and you now blame the government. On the last day, no government will be there to take any blame. So, leave the government out of this. It is purely a religious failure and not government.
Re: BOTCHED DIPLOMACY AS Saudi-Arabia Deports 510 More Nigerian Women Pilgrims!! by dreZilla(m): 8:59am On Sep 29, 2012
Like I said be4 Islam represent everything that is wrong with humanity. Must a girl/woman be accompanied by a guy b4 she can worship her God? So na Bleep those bitches are presumed to go do for hajj? Hands to God; Islam is backward in all things.
Re: BOTCHED DIPLOMACY AS Saudi-Arabia Deports 510 More Nigerian Women Pilgrims!! by teetee123: 10:22am On Sep 29, 2012
Why Saudi Arabia moved against Nigeria

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Written by Hassan Ibrahim, Regional Editor Northwest Saturday, 29 September 2012
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To many observers, irrespective of religion or creed, the embarrassment meted on hundreds of Nigerian female pilgrims in Saudi Arabia who were there for the 2012 Hajj pilgrimage, is not only a diplomatic breach, but a challenge to Nigeria’s integrity as a sovereign state to them, the action is.

It is no longer news that even as the National Hajj Commission of Nigeria (NAHCON) stood on the defensive and reiterated its position that all the affected pilgrims, who were packed at the Kingdom’s airports in prison-like camps before their deportation, had valid visas obtained from the Saudi Consulate in Nigeria before embarking on the fateful trip, the Saudi authorities had denied the pilgrims, especially those within the youthful age, entry into the holy land.

The age-long tradition that each female pilgrim should be accompanied by a male chaperone (Muharram) in accordance to the Islamic provision, was also relegated to the foreground by the Saudi’s themselves. What had always been observed during Hajj because of the high pilgrim turn- over, particularly from oil rich states like Nigeria, was that trained indigenous Hajj officials should guard and guide a number of female pilgrims on the holy journey within a prescribed period that covers the Hajj.

All these, for incomprehensible reasons to millions of Nigerians and their friends international community, were not taken into consideration by the Saudi authorities who, without notice, reneged and subjected the unsuspecting Nigerian women to series of trauma, psychological imbalance and worst form of human humiliation rarely seen in the 21st century. Reports had it that some of the affected were still being hunted by the nightmare, while the loss of appetite due to poor feeding and inadequate toilet facilities, kept doctors busy in Kano and other airports where the pilgrims had arrived.

Intensive diplomatic effort and lobby by the Nigerian Ambassador to Saudi Arabia, Alhaji Abubakar Shehu Bunu and his team, could not soften the heart of the Saudi authorities. They watched helplessly as the women were bundled back to Nigeria, while the aged among them were allowed to proceed after serious search and scrutiny. Sadly, even couple whose names could not tally, were turned back with little or no care about the implication of such action.
For now, the question is: What could have made the Saudis to take such a harsh decision on Nigeria in spite of their cordial relations that span many decades? Looking back to history, the countries, especially in 1960s, were the best of friends, who relied on each other in many ways. The mutually beneficial relationship between the then Premier of Northern Nigeria, late Sir Ahmadu Bello Sardauna and the Saudi monarch then, led to the influx of many Nigerians into the Kingdom who provided cheap labour and did engaged in menial jobs. With time and as family, hundreds with Nigerian blood were born in the Kingdom, often times of mixed parenthood.
Crime is a universal feature of all human societies, but because of the preference being enjoyed by Nigerians in the holy land, other blacks who found their way into Arabia claimed to be Nigerians subsequently, internal contradictions of life and hardship associated to poverty in some African countries led to criminal tendencies and such Africans, consciously or otherwise, imported these negative behavours into Saudi Arabia. Sadly, anything bad became a Nigerian phenomenon in Arabia, perhaps due to Nigeria’s strength, population and super power potentials, which were envied by other countries.

On March 14, 2003 or thereabout, for example, the Saudi authorities deported over 3,000 Nigerians who overstayed in the Kingdom after performing the lesser Hajj, Umrah. It was reported that the deportees, who included 500 women and 255 children, were arrested in Makkah. The Immigration authorities had also imposed fines on companies that brought in the pilgrims at SR3, 000 per person for failing to inform the authorities about their disappearance.

“During the holy month of Ramadan between early November and December, the police arrested about 20,400 foreign nationals for staying illegally in the Kingdom. According to Interior Ministry officials, Saudi Arabia deports more than 700,000 illegal immigrants every year. Illegal foreigners are deported while landlords renting accommodation to them face prison terms and fines,” they said.

Although restriction on the movement of these illegal pilgrims is oftentimes, relaxed during Hajj, Saturday Tribune was told that women were not spared as it was a regular feature to see the Askars, Saudi policemen, on a hot chase to arrest black women, Sadly, some were born and bred in the holy land and when eventually deported, they found it extremely hard to reintegrate and would consequently indulge in whatever that was humanly possible to return to the Kingdom. According to Sheik Gumi in an interview he granted in Mecca, these Nigerians or blacks are called Tukar and were not ready to back to their countries because life is good in the Kingdom. Food in varieties are readily available and affordable.

It was not uncommon that such women were always on the move with their precious belongings such as gold and other valuables. This is because if they were eventually arrested and deported, the chance of getting their belongings, which they toiled to keep over the years, was almost zero. They were hardly taken to courts, and as soon as news spread of their arrest, there were always a notorious gang of black boys called the Angula, who, it was alleged, vandalised such abandoned property.For those women with athletic prowess that escaped arrest, they often escape into the mountains and joined several other blacks where they formed a colony.

From Shaharmansur, an area in Mecca with a large population of blacks, one could take a trip to the colony of illegal immigrants in the Kingdom through Goshen Bukar, where second-hand clothes and other items, were sold. In fact, life in that area is just like life in Kano and many pilgrims from West Africa often have a respite on a visit to the area because African dishes of all varieties, including yam and bush meat are available. At twilight, the blacks will disappear one after the other and could only be found on the mountains where there are kingpins who constitute themselves as leaders of the colony and must be obeyed.

According to Ibrahim Tikari, who claimed to be born in Saudi Arabia, the Askars are not good mountain climbers and are afraid of scorpions and other reptiles. So, the blacks capitalise on that to take refuge on the mountains. “The colony has everything one could need and even marriages and naming ceremonies are conducted there. There are petty crimes and women-of-easy virtues who dot not only associate with their fellow blacks but often have links with some powerful sons of the soil, who had devised several ways of reaching them at a fee,” he said.

When Hajj is at its peak, disabled children will be sent from the mountains to seek for alms, singing melodies that touch the heart near the Holy Ka’abah, but under the watchful eyes of their mentors who continue to play hide-and-seek with the authorities. Immediately after the Hajj, they often rush back to the mountains with enough food and other provisions that will last for a year. The very few that are lucky will hide in the houses of affluent Arabs for years where they work like jackals, receiving meagre wages that has no equivalence in the Saudi civil service or its military. Anytime such Tukars are tired of solitary life, they often make themselves available for arrest and are deported either by sea or air to their home countries in Africa.

The Nigerian President, Dr Goodluck Jonathan was in far away United States when the current diplomatic row broke out, but the country has since announced that the Speaker of the House of Representatives, Aminu Waziri Tambuwal, will leave for Saudi Arabia to meet with Saudi authorities over the contentious issue. Already, the Speaker had met with the Saudi Arabian Ambassador to Nigeria, Mr. Khalid Abdrabuh, in Abuja where it was assured that the matter would soon be resolved. It was learnt during the meeting that officials from the Nigerian Ministry of Foreign Affairs were deliberating with their counterparts from the Saudi Ministry of Hajj with a view to resolving the impasse.

The matter which to many, was the first of its kind in contemporary Nigeria had really caused upsets in the Presidency and Goodluck Jonathan has approved the constitution of a presidential delegation to interface with the Saudi authorities over the issues. Tambuwal, sources said, would get briefings from the Nigerian officials, who were already in Saudi having talks with the Arabs.

For now, the airlift to the holy land from Nigeria had been suspended and might be resumed depending on how persuasive the Speaker and his team would be with the Kingdom’s officials who have a strict adherence to the dictates of the Holy Qur’an, the words and teachings of the Holy Prophet of Islam and the consensus of Islamic clerics in Kingdom.

The spokesman of the National Hajj Commission of Nigeria (NAHCON), Uba Mana, had assured that the ongoing discussions would resolve the impasse, even as Sheikh Tijjani Bala Kalarawi urged that Nigeria’s offence, if any, should be made clear and not an unwarranted detention of its female pilgrims and subsequent deportation. Sad with the detention of the female pilgrims over Muharram, he said “the issue of Murraham is untenable given the tradition that pilgrims from Nigeria are always under the care of government officials throughout their stay in Saudi Arabia.”

The Sultan of Sokoto and National Amirul Hajj, Alhaji Muhammadu Sa’ad had condemned the Saudi action, which he described as an insult to Nigeria and to this country’s millions of Muslims.”The Saudi action came as a total surprise to Nigeria’s hajj authorities because during the numerous meetings held between Nigerian and Saudi officials to prepare for this year’s hajj, the issue of muharram for female pilgrims was never raised,”he said.

According to the monarch, “they never raised this issue and never demanded that the female pilgrims must have a muharram. They did not make this a requirement for issuing visas. They issued visas to all these pilgrims, only to embarrass, detain and threaten to deport them when they arrived in the holy land. How can they do this to us? The chairman of the National Hajj Commission assured me that the Saudis never asked for this during all the meetings they held. This is very unfortunate. We have done a lot over the years to improve on our hajj operation and we do not deserve this humiliation.
Re: BOTCHED DIPLOMACY AS Saudi-Arabia Deports 510 More Nigerian Women Pilgrims!! by Kemzone2003: 12:47pm On Sep 29, 2012
The Hajj Embarrassment
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah
be upon him) said: “A woman should
absolutely not travel unless she has a
mahram with her.” A man stood up and
said, “O Messenger of Allaah, I have
enlisted in such-and-such a military
campaign, and my wife has set out for Hajj.”
He said, “Go and do Hajj with your
wife.” (al-Bukhaari, al-Fath, 3006).
Below is an excerpt from the website of the
Saudi embassy;
“• The Mahram should write his complete
information on the application forms of his
spouse and children or any relative with
whom he is traveling. He should also
provide copies of marriage or birth
certificates; if these documents were issued
outside the US, he should then provide
copies translated and notarized by a
certified translation office.
• All women are required to travel for Hajj
with a Mahram. Proof of kinship must be
submitted with the application form.
Women over the age of forty-five (45) may
travel without a Mahram with an organized
group, They must, however submits a no
objection letter from her husband, son or
brother authorizing her to travel for Hajj
with the named group. This letter should be
notarized.”
I’m fully aware of how much disdain the
green passport attracts in airports all over
the world; but I can’t help but add that our
penchant for bending – and often
disregarding – the law is what we should
blame for this one. By ‘this one’, I mean the
deportation of female pilgrims from Saudi
Arabia.
If the Prophet (SAW) could ask a man to
accompany his wife instead of taking part in
Jihad, who then are we to attempt to
disregard this rule?
Sharia is Sharia; the law is the law. Muslim
women are not to travel without mahrams
(male relatives; father, brother, husband,
paternal uncle, maternal uncle, father in
law, mother’s husband or brother through
radaa’ah..) who will guard, guide, protect,
and care for them. I’ve come across a lot of
feminist comments and would also like to
ask those to kindly learn about Islam and
what the requirements are, and of course
the reasons for arriving at those
requirements, and to refrain from making
comments until they do. It’s not an
‘oppression’ technique; if anything, it just
goes to show that women should be valued
and not subjected to stress. Before aircrafts
were made, the journey to Mecca was a
long and stressful one indeed, during which
anything could happen as many dangers
were confronted on the way.
My opinion might not be particularly
popular, but I still think our ‘system’ is to
be blamed. The agents give women fake
travelling companions in order to secure
visas; we are used to getting things through
crooked means, and we expect everybody
else to put up with it. I’m still yet to
imagine why anyone would intend to go on
Hajj – pilgrimage for the sake of Allah, so
that you may return purified and without
sin – and still lay a dishonest ‘foundation’!
The lesson here isn’t that Nigerians are
being victimized, the lesson is that until we
stop being so dishonest and learn to abide
by the law, we will continue to suffer
humiliation at the hands of other peoples!
Deporting them was a terrible thing to do,
but perhaps if we had obeyed the laws as
we ought to, it would not have happened.
Our women did not deserve to be caged like
animals and treated like criminals, but I still
do not blame anyone or anything apart
from our system. National embarrassment
has become an everyday thing – from South
Africa (whose citizens had virtually no rights
until very recently, whose representative
had his plane barred from landing by a past
Head of State), to Ghana (whose citizens
fried puff-puff and mended shoes on our
streets), Malaysia…the list is endless. If we
are in this position today, it’s because we
allowed it.
The reason for the persistent
embarrassment can not be ‘they are jealous
of Nigeria’. If it’s happening at such a high
frequency, perhaps it’s time to ask ‘what
are Nigerians doing wrong?’ Ours is not the
only African country in the world, or is it?
Many of us conduct ourselves in ways that
would make even the most patient people
lose their temper. This is bad for our
image, but then, what exactly is left of that
image?
Nigerians are sent back home from the UK
in cargo planes! Go to Italy and you’ll find
our women on the streets, go to the
prisons in the UK, US, China, Malaysia,
India, Brazil, and you’ll find a large chunk
of ‘Nigerians in Diaspora’ therein. Na only
we?
It’s true that many of us are doing
remarkably well on university campuses
and in science laboratories, and even in
Hollywood and on the political field, but for
every model Nigerian, there are at least two
criminals. Something needs to be done, and
something needs to be done fast.
Asking the Federal Government to deport
their representatives here is akin to saying
‘Nigerians must not be cautioned against
doing something wrong’. We need to
respect other peoples’ laws; it’s their
country after all.
I deeply resent the insinuations some
people are making about the character of
those women, and this is because I know
that there are bad eggs, but Nigerian
women are nowhere near as terrible as
people make them out to be.
There’s a need to educate ourselves, and
indeed others, on the requirements for Hajj
properly. Now is not the time to huff and
puff and threaten to blow the house down.
It’s sad, but the deed is done.
Claiming that we were not informed of the
requirement is an admission of negligence
at best. Every Muslim should know this.
Boycotting Hajj will do none of us any good;
we are not going on pilgrimage to please
anyone, we are doing it for the sake of
Allah. We should endeavor to do it right.
Salam aleikum
@Rinsola_Abiola
msreemah@yahoo.com

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