T9ksy:


That my dear, is your own bloody opinion but fortunately we yorubas don't give a rat's arse about what

you or any other ibo thinks of Awo. Your opinion of Awo is inconsequential to us.

^^^You sure about that?....you could have fooled me!

Nebeuwa: I read an interesting comment on this, which I think is the truth.

If the Nigerian military government, believed in "No Victor, No Vanquished," then it would have used a type of Marshall Plan to rebuild Eastern Nigeria after it was decimated after the war. Sadly, that did not happen.

Germany brought the entire globe to war TWICE, and after World War II, their country was rebuilt by the Allied Powers. I hope people see the irony of the situation.

The Northerners consolidated power after the war. They weren't interested in development. Other than military type developments in the North, Northern leaders didn't do anything worthwhile in the North. No infrastructure, they didn't even try to improve literacy amongst their kids. The results of that negligence is all too obvious with Boko Haram. So no, the East wasn't the only region neglected.

ACM10:

I've responded to this question already. I get bored with mindless repetition.

Your response wasn't good enough, is my point. Do you not get that? The answer to my question is, "there is no way to ensure that the food you give to the civilians doesn't end up feeding military.

I was expecting you to name this book. Mr, you are still ignorant on this topic. Widen your scope.

Why would I name the book, when I mentioned its author? He only has one book on the Nigerian civil war (though it was republished again under a different name).

Should I also mention the color of my book, the font used to print the title, etc?

Anyway......more to the point, name these villages and towns you and @realchange claim that Gowon was killing and genociding on the Biafra border before your declaration of independence.....

ACM10:

Pls do! Your ignorance on this topic is so glaring.




Article 8 (2) (b) (xxv)
War crime of starvation as a method of
warfare
Elements
1. The
perpetrator
deprived civilians
of objects
indispensable to
their survival.
2. The
perpetrator
intended to starve
civilians as a
method of warfare.
3. The conduct
took place in the
context of and was
associated with an
international armed
conflict.
4. The
perpetrator was
aware of factual
circumstances that
established the
existence of an
armed conflict.

www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/iccelementsofcrimes.html

Then doesn't it follow that ANY blockade which also blocks the flow of food is a war crime?

Yet, there have been many total blockades over the past 50 years in history. Is your claim then that all of those blockades were war crimes?

If so, then Nigeria is in good company.

More to the point...if the Biafran side knew that their civilians were starving due to this blockade, are they not just as culpable morally?

Or is the claim that there is no moral burden for them to care for their own civilian population more than the Nigerian side?

If you put all the best iboland can boast of together including the foolish old achebe, Awolowo is still the king over them. you secretly wish you had a leader with foresight like Awo.

ACM10:
Thank you my brother! Achebe is a born diplomat. I can sense that he made a conscious effort to avoid describing Awolowo with an unflattering term. What Achebe wrote in his memoir is not new to us. My problem is that some segment of Nigerians refused to accept that Awo was an overly ambitious politician who had no shred of decency.

ekt_bear: More to the point...if the Biafran side knew that their civilians were starving due to this blockade, are they not just as culpable morally?

Or is the claim that there is no moral burden for them to care for their own civilian population more than the Nigerian side?

To add to that, why did they not surrender when they knew they couldn't feed their citizens?

A biafra officer told St. Jorre that if offered milk for starving kids and arms, they would choose arms. So if the Biafrans who were seeing innocent kids dying daily from starvation, didn't care about them, how were they expecting their enemies who were hundreds of miles away to be moved by the deaths?

An unemployed man feeds fat from donations from friendly neighbours while his kids starve to death. He collects toll fees from the neighbours who bring food for his kids. He uses the funds to fight his landlord in court because he doesnt want to pay rent. When his kids die, he accuses his landlord of starvation. Who should have provided for the kids? The father or the landlord?

Hold on a second, my confused friend ACM10.

You are citing a law associated with the International Criminal Court, an organization that did not exist until after 2000.

So, even assuming that your interpretation is correct, are you really judging a war in the late 1960s using laws from 2000+?

This is why I asked you to cite your reference well...I was pretty sure that you'd be full of crap.

The top of page 245 from the de St. Jorre book:

"This I think, unfairly maligns his intentions and underestimates his authority. He did, after all, not only fulfil Nigeria's commitment to the Geneva Conventions, but go some ways beyond it. He turned a blind eye to the illegal night-flying into Biafra for fifteen months; he accepted the presence of an International Observer Team to allay fears of genocide and keep an eye on the conduct of the Federal troops (that the team was a British suggestion does not detract from Gowon's merit in accepting it); and he did agree to the daylight relief flights to Biafra provided that they planes were checked by the government and followed routes of its choice -- both normal controls under the Geneva Conventions. That the Biafrans did not accept these conditions does not mean Gowon was insincere in his offer."

So, exactly as I said. Nigeria offered relief flights, Biafra rejected them.

Unlike you, ACM10, I do not make claims unless I have facts to back them up.

Now, can you back up this assertion of yours of villages on the Eastern border being attacked even before the declaration of independence? This was your and @realchange's justification for why the declaration of independence was necessary..

You have forgotten so soon how your leaders were the people licking the northern a*ss clean all over the place and your leaders were awarded the political harlots by the same north, hehehe! stop rubbing your affliction on Awo. you ibos are drifters.

van bonattel:

Ojukwu was a genius, I mean, how else can you describe forsight, what he saw 45 years ago (that we can never be one nation) is still as correct today as it was since 1914 mistake. We only pulled him back because of our tribal hatred, not because his cause lacked merit. But we shall all suffer the consequences of the mistake by Awolowo and co, who were busy licking the yansh of hausa people. In the end, its the wider Nigerians that are paying for that stupidvity and not even the ibo people.

Liar, go and take your medication.

van bonattel:

You should not bother yourself, no such thing happened. Awolowo supported the split and promised Zik to do same with the west, but turned back and betrayed the east, that was the version I heard.

Your parents are doing a good job of feeding you with hogwash.

van bonattel:

You should not bother yourself, no such thing happened. Awolowo supported the split and promised Zik to do same with the west, but turned back and betrayed the east, that was the version I heard.

Who knows the senile old man is possibly shi*tting and eating his own poo already, reason he spoke from his anus against a man of Awo caliber.

There are some but don't know the full stories behind them, maybe if we create a topic about the legends others can fill in the gaps.

tpia@:
Does anyone know the history of ikenne people?

Any verifiable oral legends, etc.

CyberG:

First, there's no mystery or big deal about Achebe. He is just another human being, mortal, finite and limited by his personal experience so he can just air his views like every other person. Now to the issues you raised, I will respond briefly:

1. Iboz who were known to be loyal to the biafran secession were selected to be in the people's assembly that you supposedly told ojukwu to declare secession. This is well-documented only if you would read - they were not just ordinary, regular, clear thinking people, for the ones whose loyalty were in doubt were removed. So, stop lying like this was some decision he had to take because he was told to do it.

2. It is in fact a poor leadership without any foresight that will take such a big step to jeopardize the lives of 3 M+ when he could lay it down to them clearly what would happen. Did he not study history? Does it mean that rather than provide leadership, ojuku would rather follow his followers who thought he was leading them and later today, someone rather than blame the leader turn around and blame the so called iboz?

3. Sad trailers of dead iboz landed in Onitsha but did this just happen out of the blues? Did you remember that after the iboz coup of 1966 killed leaders of every other part of Nigeria while preserving ibo leadership, those dead iboz or their kins and relatives were the ones making fun of the northerners in their own land? "Shi maganin ne" they sang as they pointed out how the iboz soldiers had killed their Sadaunna. Ha, you think that was okay? Ironsi had several months to punish his fellow ibo coupists, but what did he do: NOTHING. But when the northerners responded in kind, iboz are crying till today while the northerners and westerners whose leaders were killed have moved on.

blind man. Is it igbo coupe or is it a coupe led by an igbo? Aren't there yorrobers among them? Ok, what do you think ojukwu would have done? 3 million igbos died,yes that's war for you. Are we igbos complaining of the dead 3 million or complaining about the confiscated properties after the war? Finally, there was a motivational song for ojukwu during that war. The song was done by people back home who are not even soldiers. So if those people had supported then nobody is against him, ur lies of selecting his supporters in his cabinet ,i don't know where you got it from. Maybe it's what awolowo told you.

whitecat007: We have great leaders, just not the rogues you worship east of niger

i think you really have a problem.

CyberG:

Ekt...are you asking rhetorical questions because I am sure you know everyone knew the answers to those questions a long time ago.

FACTS:
1. No one died from ojukwu's or senior generals' family during the war by starvation, how and what did they eat? - The food of the masses of iboz who died of starvation. Otherwise, is there a picture of Effiong for example after the war looking, weak, sickly and hungry?

2. Ojuku and his leadership decided they would rather have aid organizations ship in arms rather than food supplies so the shipments had much less food than could be brought in. Will the people eat guns and bullets? Will they eat medicine? Was it not the military leadership that received this shipments and commandeered most of it? How will people not starve if all you have to feed them is arms?

poor brain. A typical yorrobber man, liar,cunny,back-stabber. TUFIAKWA

ekt_bear:
Gowon offered this option, but Ojukwu refused to agree to this policy, claiming that Nigeria would somehow sabatoge said food. I'll see if I can find a citation for this.


I would expect a man as non-dull as you to do the legwork and back up your claim with facts (i.e. a quote), so we can verify that you are interpreting the law correctly. Do you not get my point?


I.e., a blockade of everything. Nothing allowed to come in and out. If one does such, is this the same as a starvation policy?

what did gowon offered that ojukwu rejected that is more grave than the aburi agremeent gowon turned down on reaching nigeria?

Antivirus92: blind man. Is it igbo coupe or is it a coupe led by an igbo?

lol. not trying to be grammar nazi, but for some reason this sentence brought up the following lyrics for me:
"coupe the color of mayonnaise
I'm drunk and high at the same time, drinkin' champagne on the airplane"

ekt_bear:

lol. not trying to be grammar nazi, but for some reason this sentence brought up the following lyrics for me:
"coupe the color of mayonnaise
I'm drunk and high at the same time, drinkin' champagne on the airplane"

There goes the insults after they run out of any type of logical arguments.

Antivirus92: poor brain. A typical yorrobber man, liar,cunny,back-stabber. TUFIAKWA

There goes the insults after they run out of any type of logical arguments. iboz here are generally known for that and this is exactly while northerners woz them until they stupidly declared a war which resulted in 3 M mega-wozing!

Antivirus92: blind man. Is it igbo coupe or is it a coupe led by an igbo? Aren't there yorrobers among them? Ok, what do you think ojukwu would have done? 3 million igbos died,yes that's war for you. Are we igbos complaining of the dead 3 million or complaining about the confiscated properties after the war? Finally, there was a motivational song for ojukwu during that war. The song was done by people back home who are not even soldiers. So if those people had supported then nobody is against him, ur lies of selecting his supporters in his cabinet ,i don't know where you got it from. Maybe it's what awolowo told you.

Pfffttt....everyone knows it was an ibo coup. If you are educated, you should be able to figure out that 51% will always best 49%, heck 50.1% bests 49.9%! Now go figure and if you still can't, you cannot be helped. Plus, why the insults? Can you disprove any of my 3 points with hard facts and I will accept your position?

T9ksy:


No, Awo didn't tell me nada but alexander madiebo did. Am sure you are familiar with the name.

He was the General commanding officer of the biafran army and in his book "Nigerian revolution and Biafran war",

He wrote about how the ikemba fled biafra, terrified.

Let me give an excerpt from his book- pg 370

this is why even your fellow aboki muslims even hate you people.LIES! You believed that ojukwu travelled out of nigeria then through nigeria air way? The same nigeria that were his enermy. Cos there was no biafra airway. Childish! What was he doing in the airport? In case you don't know ojukwu moved out on a jet. You read that book of lies and believed cos it suits you but you find it extremely hard to believe what prof. Achebe wrote.

It is my impression that Awolowo was driven by an overriding ambition for power, for himself and for his Yoruba people. There is, on the surface at least, nothing wrong with those aspirations. However, Awolowo saw the dominant Igbos at the time as the obstacles to that goal, and when the opportunity arose – the Nigeria-Biafra war – his ambition drove him into a frenzy to go to every length to achieve his dreams. In the Biafran case it meant hatching up a diabolical policy to reduce the numbers of his enemies significantly through starvation — eliminating over two million people, mainly members of future generations.

This is the most ridiculous garbage I have read on Nigerian-Biafran civil war. So Awolowo should be in Gowon's government and be fighting for the interests of Biafra? What would he gain, what would his people gain, what would Nigeria gain by promoting Biafra interests in Gowon administration? Had Biafra succeeded in breaking away, would this same professor not making mockery of Awolowo today that despite his intellectual tallness, Nigeria could not defeat Biafra? Whose interests exactly should Awolowo have fought for in Gowon's administration?

You won't blame your leaders that brought war upon your head but found it convenient to blame someone who had nothing to do with your misery. If you were doing fine, the dominant group in Nigeria, getting the best in Nigeria, why did you instigate the first coup? You sons killed leaders of other regions sparing yours but you did not cry foul, you did not secede, you did not cry genocide. But what happened when the macabre music was played for Igbos to dance? When Ironsi was assassinated? The whole North was demonised-Hausa did this , Fulani did that but you found it entirely convenient to ignore who fomented the trouble, who precipitated the entire scenario, you would rather blame others than blame you sons who started it all. You will always hear them talk of pogrom in the North but never mention what caused the pogrom.

Even when your so much revered Ojukwu continued in his empty arrogance, the strongest army in Black Africa nonsense, leaders of thought, opinion moulders cautioned him against rushing to war. This same Awolowo that was said to be hungry for power was part of a mission to persuade Ojukwu to shelve any idea of war. Ojukwu ignored it. He ignored all voice of reason and went to a lost war before it even started. Instead of blaming your leaders, of course the man to blame was Awolowo who instituted the policy of starvation as weapon of war as if there was something wrong with that. I don't know and I am not aware of any law that says you should feed your enemy during a raging war but our brave brothers who are not cowards like the Yorubas would continue to demonise Awolowo for that as if he was a spy that should be advancing their interests in Gowon government. How ridiculous?

The question I ask you folks is if Awolowo deliberately instituted the policy so what? Did he declare secession for Igbo? Did Nigeria constitution permit secession? Who plunged Igbo into to an unplanned war- a war that was not winnable in probability and reality? If you were dominant and was his envy, why did you give yourselves to him to prey on on the platter of gold? Why did you present him the opportunity when the same devil even cautioned you against war? Don't blame Ojukwu, Awolowo-the evil one-is the one to blame.

Achebe is bitter because Awolowo was the brain behind the defeat of Biafra. It has nothing to do with tribalism. It has nothing to do with starvation nonsense he's ranting about. Are we not living in the same world where nuclear weapons was used to obliterate a whole city and somebody is talking of starvation? are we not living in a world where a country was invaded, millions killed and infrastructure destroyed on a patently false intelligence and the world is yet to end? Some of these our professors are jokes. By the way, is Achebe now claiming to be a nationalist or not also advancing the interest of Igbo people the very same concept he seems to be criticizing Awolowo for? Wonders they say shall never end. Rant on professor, we are all ears! What else did Awolowo do to destroy Igbo?

ekt_bear: 1a) Certainly the political parts of reconstruction were opposed by southerners. But not the economic parts, which also ended prematurely.
1b) FDR came quite a bit after the civil war..
1c) Yes, the south is subsidized by the coastal states today. But that isn't very relevant to what occurred immediately after the US civil war.

2) There is nothing in the Geneva conventions that says that blockades are not permitted, nor that you must do a Marshall plan for the side you defeat in war. Again, cool that the US did it, but by no means par for the course.

3) Well, agreed, it certainly wasn't kindness. The point is that with a strong European economy, everyone is better off. But my point is, this was a unique thing...it certainly wasn't the standard at that time.

1) It was a full pull out, the South didn't make a deal on economics

2. My point is that the way war was looked at changed greatly after WWI and WWII. Ideas about how we treat the losers of war changed.

3. It has become pretty standard though, Iraq and Afghanistan are both receiving aid after war. Only in cases like Yugoslavia you don't see that happen.

Dede1: I have no illusion that Max Siollun is a good historical entity but he still succumbs to author’s imagination and hyperbolism. Please stop quoting Max because his words are not gospel. I have to categorical say that Max’s explanation about Midwestern region debacle is completely flawed with view to chronological order of events.

I guess Max forgot that the force that attacked eastern region and captured Bonny on July 26, 1967 departed from the Nigeria’s training depot at Escravos, Mid-western region of Nigeria. It is clearly that Mid-western region of Nigeria had joined the war on the Nigerian side before the August 8, 1967 inversion by Biafran forces.

Dede1: I read in your post the extracts from Max Siollun’s write-up where it indicated “the "Mid-West will not be a battleground". Ejoor had even refused to let federal troops cross through his territory. Hence it was regarded as neutral demilitarized territory”. There is nothing farthest from truth than this crap.

Escravos, Mid-western region was the training depot of the 3MCDO that launched attack on eastern region and captured Bonny on July 12, 1967. And by July 26, 1967, Bonny is securely in the hands of elements of 3MCDO of Nigerian army. If Max Siollun was not under the influence of author’s imagination, he was outright lying about the so-called Mid-western region's false sense of neutrality

The Midwest was technically not neutral and did not have the means of achieving neutrality. However, if this idea that the Midwest was an "aggressor" is based on this Escravos stuff you've been repeating for more than a year now, then you might seriously need to have a rethink or recheck your facts. First, we both know that the force that captured Bonny in July was launched from Lagos, not Escravos as was discussed a long time ago although you seem quite convinced that they had been in Escravos prior to the Bonny invasion - probably because of your (incorrect) assumption that Boro and his group (who were gathered at and trained at Escravos) were among them. Second, we know that the training in Escravos of people like Boro took place after the Biafran invasion of the Midwest, not that he was just relaxing there or carrying out training while an invasion/occupation was going on there. So who was really trained at Escravos? Who led the training at Escravos? Some Ijaws, primarily from the Eastern region of Nigeria met up in Escravos and trained there briefly and from this you've built up all sorts of bizarre theories. And also, who authorized the training at Escravos? Midwesterners? There is not even any evidence of at least this (that is to say, there is no evidence that consultation was carried out and assent given before deciding that Escravos is where the training should occur) - and this is the only thing that could even be plausible.

"It is no use to repeat that Isaac Boro who was jailed by the Maj. Gen. Aguiyi-Ironsi government on recommendation by the supreme court of Nigeria was pardoned by Lt. Col Yakubu Gowon's government and later commissioned by the Nigerian Army as an officer to help liberate southern territories under Biafran control. He recruited Rivers men who volunteered to serve under him and gave them brief training at Escravos. According to Obasanjo on page 47 of [1], Boro's one-thousand Rivers men were "hurriedly and poorly trained with little or nothing in the way of training facilities and resources". His group was then attached to the 3 Marine Commando Division (then 3 Marine) under the command of Col. Benjamin Adekunle." - Hosiah Emmanuel, "Who Killed Adaka Boro"

http://www.onlinenigeria.com/people/ad.asp?blurb=129

http://www.adakaboro.org/resources/37-articles/56-whokilledboro?format=pdf

"First, I was among the hundreds of young and not so young Ijaw army of soldiers recruited and put under Boro's command that was sent to Bonny after some commando type training in Ogidigbe on the Escravos River. Boro left us soon after as he was sent to the Calabar theater. But before he left, he advised us not to commit atrocities nor loot from liberated towns and villages. And that was a very sobering advise and his greatest parting present to us. And it stuck with most of us." - Roy Tomo-Spiff, "Roy Tomo-Spiff' Recalls Boro's Death"

http://www.onlinenigeria.com/people/ad.asp?blurb=129


"The boys who were being trained by Boro and Owonaru on Escravos Bay when we passed through at the end of September had arrived in Bonny about October/November; though the then Commander was rather unhappy with them. . ." - Ken Saro-Wiwa, On a darkling plain: an account of the Nigerian civil war (1989), p. 159

"By the end of September a substantial part of the Mid-West had been cleared of rebels. What next? Col. Adekunle once again visited Lagos and secured permission to change the designation of his formation from 3 Infantry Division to 3 Marine Commando Division because of the particularly riverine and creek operations already carried out in the Mid-West, the Rivers State and a similar one impending in the South-Eastern State. From Warri, 3 Marine Commando Division moved once again to Bonny where the planning and preparation for Operation Tiger Claw, the Calabar landing operation started in earnest early in October 1967. At Bonny, Col. Adekunle got his men and materials together once again less those officers and men who had been absorbed into 2 Infantry Division in the Mid-West. He also gained some officers and men like Majors Afiegbe and Alabi from the Mid-West operation. Maj. Phillip Afiegbe was appointed General Staff Officer I for Operation Tiger Claw. Also at this time, Boro and his one thousand ill-disciplined, hurriedly and poorly trained Rivers men had joined the 3 Marine at Bonny. They were trained at Escravos with little or nothing in the way of training facilities and resources. Half of them were left in Bonny where such patriotic Rivers men as George Amangala, B.A. (History), Bodman Nyanayo, M.A. (Maths.) and Notthingham D1ck died. The remaining half with Boro himself went with the main body of the Division on the Calabar landing operation. With the planning, preparation and briefing for Operation Tiger Claw completed, a force of some one thousand men with poor logistics backing was left in Bonny with Lt. Bello as commanding officer while Maj. Abubakar joined the main force for Calabar." - Olusegun Obasanjo, My Command


Which comes first? August (the time of the Biafran invasion of the Midwest). . .or September (the time of the training of Boro's group in Escravos)? Which comes first, August. . .or October (the time the Ijaws trained in Escravos joined the 3 Marine Commando Division in Bonny)? I think the answers to these questions are obvious.

We have somebody who was actually trained in Escravos (Roy Tomo-Spiff) stating that the group trained in Escravos which later joined the 3rd Marine Commando in Bonny were of Ijaw extraction. The reason for this and the implications of this as far as their going to Bonny (a city with heavy Ijaw connections) should be quite clear.

Why have you repeatedly attempted to spin this Rivers state (primarily) Ijaw force that was briefly trained at Escravos into some fictitious Urhobo-Edo-Esan-Itsekiri-Isoko (you have mentioned all of these (non-Igbo) peoples before when making the claim about the training at Escravos) Midwestern force recruited to launch an attack on Bonny in Escravos along with Boro when it is easily verifiable that they were Ijaws and also mostly Rivers Ijaws (i.e. Easterners) that joined up with the parts of the (pre-existing) Nigerian army that were already in Bonny after having captured it? I asked you to give an explanation in a previous thread for your statements and instead you told me to go and ask the Nigerian army to confirm your claims.

hmmm. . . Brb

Wow, another Biafra thread? LOL. Actual lives were lost, so this is too emotionally charged for anyone to back down and see logic. Which is why I'm surprised someone of Achebe's caliber would make such unguarded utterances...eh, its a free world

[quote author=seanet01][size=25pt]This is called Senility!!!
The useless and Fake Professor on wheels accusing the God of Ibos of Over ambition?
When someone speaks U knw the kind of upbringing he received and how knowledgeable he is. U have just reduced Ur self to nothing but a callous and disrespectful entity, i suggest U ask ur parents to teach U how to respect ur elders.

ekt_bear:
Ousted by who? Internally or externally?

Are they going to stay there forever?

ekt_bear:
Were they being massacred at the time Biafra was declared? Or several months (or was it even a year) before?

Have Igbos been massacred this week in the North? is there any guarantee that they won't be maimed next week? This is a recurring decimal and i'm suprised you actually made this assertion.

ekt_bear:
Like I said, just because you want to do something, doesn't mean it should be done right away. Timing is critical...and can be the difference between success and failure.

Timing is useless if you're trying to stop the killing of your people. Do you wait ten years down the line after the whole race is exterminated before you act?

If only ojukwu had killed awolowo in prison, he wouldn't have been starving any igbo kids during wartime. Ojukwu bleeped up in that regard. Igbos fought the war with hand brakes the last time. about all being fair in war, why were the nazis prosecuted for war crimes? Why was the Rwandan genocide instigators procedures? What about the Serbs in the Balkans? Only the Nigerian one was hushed because the white men helped you all the way to commit it. You guys still failed. Igbos are still here and will continue to be for ever. Deal with your incompetence, fuckwrscontinue