johnw74:


we will never see those verses

johnw74:


Unbelievable, what did Mary do that was making the impossible possible?

Of course there is a difference between the divinity of God and Mary
God has always existed, is eternal, and the creator of all that exists
Mary was a temporal human being, a part of God's creation

Mat_28:19  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

^^^ do u notice Mary isn't mentioned there?



The Bible is God's inspired word, one of the first writers of the Bible was Moses,
that was long before the catholic church

Don't just post your your own beliefs here, give Bible verses for the things you say
you can say the cow jumped over the moon, but I want to see the truth

Babacele:
What impossibility can be like giving birth to God? And what portion of the bible God said Mary was temporal? This same God that called Mary blessed among women and that she is highly favored(Lk1:28) ,and Holy Ghost filled Elizabeth that called her mother of God(luke1 :42), whose divine position is being recognized by Catholics for all generations (luke1:48), who can make Christ hour come even when it wasn't yet time(John2:5)

if Judaism with all the Mosaic laws is what would redeem us ,why did God came as man Jesus through Mary?
Why did he Christ have to establish his church on St Peter who has the Apostolic mandate which no gates of hades has been able to prevail against in the past 2000 years(Math 16: 13-20).

brocab:
"No I suppose we won't-another Catholic bites the dust, the blind is leading the blind-these so called believers can never come to the truth, the Catholic's can't see pass the man made images.
{John 20:25-29} Thomas said: unless I see the nail marks in His hands, and put my finger where the nails were-and put my hand on His side-I will not believe it.
{V 29} Jesus said unto him, Thomas because you have seen Me, you had believed, Blessed are they who have not seen, and yet have believed.
The Catholic Church runs with Thomas, he and the Church, need images to believe.
And this my friend tells us the Catholic's aren't strong enough in faith to accept Christ fully to believe.

brocab:
All we believers are trying to show you-is the creator God retrieves all the glory, we are trying to show you-to find any truth-you must read your dusty old bibles, it's the Catholic Church who claims it was they, the Church began with Peter, but yet if this is true-then why does the Catholic's preach another doctrine, Peter walked with Jesus-and he would know the in's and out's, what Jesus spoke off.
{Acts 3:6} Then Peter said: silver and gold I do not have-but what I do have, I give you-In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk.
This is the Peter we believers know off-this isn't the Peter the Catholic Church rest upon, If Peter was the author of the Catholic Church-then one would think the Church would follow after Peter-and do the things Peter done.
He laid His hands on the sick-the blind now see, and Peter raised the dead {Acts 9:36-42}
Is this not the Church we would expect to see? Wouldn't we want to have these same gifts Peter had from God-wouldn't we become born again believers just like Peter was-and all the other apostles-like Mary-when the Holy Spirit fell upon them at Pentecost.
{Acts 2:2-6} Then suddenly there came a sound from Heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the hole house where they were sitting, then there appeared to them divied tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
It seems the Catholic Church don't baptise any of you-with the Holy Spirit-listen to what Paul says in {Acts 19:1-7} And it happened while Apollos was in Corinth, that Paul, having passed through, the upper region, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples He said: to them, did you received the Holy Spirit when you believed?
{Did the Catholic's received the Holy Spirit after Baptism-of course not-because you were all babies at the time, and at that time, none of you believed.}
{V 2} So they said: to Paul, we have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit", And he said to them, "into what than were you baptised? So they said: into John's baptism..
Then Paul said: John indeed baptized with the Baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him, who would come after him, that is on Jesus Christ".
When they heard this, they were Baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, and when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit come upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.
This is why it is important to be like Peter-He was truly filled with the Holy Spirit-no man in the flesh can do such Miracles, without having the Holy Spirit. Mary carried the Spirit of God with her-she was filled with the Holy Spirit-she like Peter and the rest of the disciples were filled, and even today more and more are being filled with the Holy Spirit-spreading the gospel, where the disciples left off, this is a question I would be asking the Church, why doesn't the Catholic Church teach on these important issues?
Peter and Mary didn't need to pray through anybody else-being filled with the Holy Spirit they could pray directly to the Father's throne room.

Babacele:

What impossibility can be like giving birth to God? And what portion of the bible God said Mary was temporal? This same God that called Mary blessed among women and that she is highly favored(Lk1:28) ,and Holy Ghost filled Elizabeth that called her mother of God(luke1 :42), whose divine position is being recognized by Catholics for all generations (luke1:48), who can make Christ hour come even when it wasn't yet time(John2:5)

Babacele:

if Judaism with all the Mosaic laws is what would redeem us ,why did God came as man Jesus through Mary?
Why did he Christ have to establish his church on St Peter who has the Apostolic mandate which no gates of hades has been able to prevail against in the past 2000 years(Math 16: 13-20).

Babacele:
after 2000 years of leading the Crusade, no gate of hades has prevailed against the Rock: the Catholic church despite all the challenges . That history you cant wish away . And stop wasting your time on assumptions and stop feeling like God. Those who worship God do in truth and spirit and only God knows who qualifies.

Go to uncharted terrains e.g Afghanistan to preach the gospel not to Catholics who have paved the way. Let God judge us.

Babacele:
after 2000 years of leading the Crusade, no gate of hades has prevailed against the Rock: the Catholic church despite all the challenges . That history you cant wish away . And stop wasting your time on assumptions and stop feeling like God. Those who worship God do in truth and spirit and only God knows who qualifies.

Go to uncharted terrains e.g Afghanistan to preach the gospel not to Catholics who have paved the way. Let God judge us.

johnw74:


Stop just saying things that u were taught, and pick up your Bible to see if they are true

The Rock is Jesus Christ, not Peter, and certainly not the rcc:

Look Here





What is the origin of the Roman Catholic Church?

Answer: The Roman Catholic Church contends that its origin is the death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ in approximately AD 30. The Catholic Church proclaims itself to be the church that Jesus Christ died for, the church that was established and built by the apostles. Is that the true origin of the Catholic Church? On the contrary. Even a cursory reading of the New Testament will reveal that the Catholic Church does not have its origin in the teachings of Jesus or His apostles. In the New Testament, there is no mention of the papacy, worship/adoration of Mary (or the immaculate conception of Mary, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the assumption of Mary, or Mary as co-redemptrix and mediatrix), petitioning saints in heaven for their prayers, apostolic succession, the ordinances of the church functioning as sacraments, infant baptism, confession of sin to a priest, purgatory, indulgences, or the equal authority of church tradition and Scripture. So, if the origin of the Catholic Church is not in the teachings of Jesus and His apostles, as recorded in the New Testament, what is the true origin of the Catholic Church?

For the first 280 years of Christian history, Christianity was banned by the Roman Empire, and Christians were terribly persecuted. This changed after the “conversion” of the Roman Emperor Constantine. Constantine provided religious toleration with the Edict of Milan in AD 313, effectively lifting the ban on Christianity. Later, in AD 325, Constantine called the Council of Nicea in an attempt to unify Christianity. Constantine envisioned Christianity as a religion that could unite the Roman Empire, which at that time was beginning to fragment and divide. While this may have seemed to be a positive development for the Christian church, the results were anything but positive. Just as Constantine refused to fully embrace the Christian faith, but continued many of his pagan beliefs and practices, so the Christian church that Constantine promoted was a mixture of true Christianity and Roman paganism.

johnw74:

Constantine found that, with the Roman Empire being so vast, expansive, and diverse, not everyone would agree to forsake his or her religious beliefs to embrace Christianity. So, Constantine allowed, and even promoted, the “Christianization” of pagan beliefs. Completely pagan and utterly unbiblical beliefs were given new “Christian” identities. Some clear examples of this are as follows:

(1) The Cult of Isis, an Egyptian mother-goddess religion, was absorbed into Christianity by replacing Isis with Mary. Many of the titles that were used for Isis, such as “Queen of Heaven,” “Mother of God,” and theotokos (“God-bearer”) were attached to Mary. Mary was given an exalted role in the Christian faith, far beyond what the Bible ascribes to her, in order to attract Isis worshippers to a faith they would not otherwise embrace. Many temples to Isis were, in fact, converted into temples dedicated to Mary. The first clear hints of Catholic Mariology occur in the writings of Origen, who lived in Alexandria, Egypt, which happened to be the focal point of Isis worship.

(2) Mithraism was a religion in the Roman Empire in the 1st through 5th centuries AD. It was very popular among the Romans, especially among Roman soldiers, and was possibly the religion of several Roman emperors. While Mithraism was never given “official” status in the Roman Empire, it was the de facto official religion until Constantine and succeeding Roman emperors replaced Mithraism with Christianity. One of the key features of Mithraism was a sacrificial meal, which involved eating the flesh and drinking the blood of a bull. Mithras, the god of Mithraism, was “present” in the flesh and blood of the bull, and when consumed, granted salvation to those who partook of the sacrificial meal (this is known as theophagy, the eating of one’s god). Mithraism also had seven “sacraments,” making the similarities between Mithraism and Roman Catholicism too many to ignore. Church leaders after Constantine found an easy substitute for the sacrificial meal of Mithraism in the concept of the Lord’s Supper/Christian communion. Even before Constantine, some early Christians had begun to attach mysticism to the Lord’s Supper, rejecting the biblical concept of a simple and worshipful remembrance of Christ’s death and shed blood. The Romanization of the Lord’s Supper made the transition to a sacrificial consumption of Jesus Christ, now known as the Catholic Mass/Eucharist, complete.

johnw74:

(3) Most Roman emperors (and citizens) were henotheists. A henotheist is one who believes in the existence of many gods, but focuses primarily on one particular god or considers one particular god supreme over the other gods. For example, the Roman god Jupiter was supreme over the Roman pantheon of gods. Roman sailors were often worshippers of Neptune, the god of the oceans. When the Catholic Church absorbed Roman paganism, it simply replaced the pantheon of gods with the saints. Just as the Roman pantheon of gods had a god of love, a god of peace, a god of war, a god of strength, a god of wisdom, etc., so the Catholic Church has a saint who is “in charge” over each of these, and many other categories. Just as many Roman cities had a god specific to the city, so the Catholic Church provided “patron saints” for the cities.

(4) The supremacy of the Roman bishop (the papacy) was created with the support of the Roman emperors. With the city of Rome being the center of government for the Roman Empire, and with the Roman emperors living in Rome, the city of Rome rose to prominence in all facets of life. Constantine (AD 272–337) and his successors gave their support to the bishop of Rome as the supreme ruler of the church. Of course, it is best for the unity of the Roman Empire that the government and state religion be centralized. While most other bishops (and Christians) resisted the idea of the Roman bishop being supreme, the Roman bishop eventually rose to supremacy, due to the power and influence of the Roman emperors. When the Western half of the Roman Empire collapsed in 476, the popes took on the title that had previously belonged to the Roman emperors—Pontifex Maximus. Pope Gregory I, ruling from 590–604, is usually considered the first bishop to truly wield papal authority.

Many more examples could be given. These four should suffice in demonstrating the origin of the Catholic Church. Of course, the Roman Catholic Church denies the pagan origin of its beliefs and practices. The Catholic Church disguises its pagan beliefs under layers of complicated theology and “church tradition.” Recognizing that many of its beliefs and practices are utterly foreign to Scripture, the Catholic Church is forced to deny the authority and sufficiency of Scripture.

The origin of the Catholic Church is the tragic compromise of Christianity with the pagan religions that surrounded it. Instead of proclaiming the gospel and converting the pagans, the Catholic Church “Christianized” the pagan religions, and “paganized” Christianity. By blurring the differences and erasing the distinctions, yes, the Catholic Church made itself attractive to the people of the Roman Empire. One result was the Catholic Church becoming the supreme religion in the Roman world for centuries. However, another result was the most dominant form of Christianity apostatizing from the true gospel of Jesus Christ and the true proclamation of God’s Word.

Second Timothy 4:3–4 declares, “For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.”

Babacele:
after 2000 years of leading the Crusade, no gate of hades has prevailed against the Rock: the Catholic church despite all the challenges . That history you cant wish away . And stop wasting your time on assumptions and stop feeling like God. Those who worship God do in truth and spirit and only God knows who qualifies.

Go to uncharted terrains e.g Afghanistan to preach the gospel not to Catholics who have paved the way. Let God judge us.

Babacele:
earlier on this thread while employing foul words Mr Pentecostal,you quoted Leviticus where Moses gave the " thou shall not worship another God" law to the ignorant Jews unlike we poor Catholics that we so much rever God that we beg holy people and saints to help pray to Him despite all our numerous direct communion with the most merciful universal Father.

The same unpredictable Lord told Moses to adopt what modern pharisees would term paganism to promote the faith in Him , like using the ash of burnt heifer for cleanliness Num19:16-18, or the raising of the bronze snake which has great significance with Christ crucifixion as shown in the verse below:

Just as Moses lifted up the snake
in the wilderness, so the Son of
Man must be lifted up,
John 3:15
that everyone who believes in Him
may have eternal life.

So how do you know it wasnt God that guided the Catholic church?

Do you really understand?

brocab:
God has Judge you-but if you aren't willing to become a born again believer, how the Word of God tells us to be-then God had already Judge you.

brocab:
How do we know it wasn't God that guilded the Catholic Church-because God is the God of the Living-He isn't the God of the dead.
The world already knows the Catholic Church carries on with standard paganism-a Church that show signs of sin, everything the Church stands for-is truly against God.

Babacele:
Mr God ,mr judge. U know nothing about being born again. It is not some exclusive clubs meant for some privileged to be flaunt at some poor folks but God alone knows who qualifies.
The word of God is Jesus and not the Bible. John1:1-1.
From Genesis to Revelation there is no word like Bible. pls try and learn .

Babacele:
be specific and coherent pls.

johnw74:

Ha ha a lot of lip service passed down by men-church but all false
read again the accurate history posted.

baba, u r still running away from the issues here: "praying to Mary", "divinity of Mary", "not posting scriptures asked for", and u keep changing the subject,

back with more truth for u later

Babacele:
when the Catholic church has done the real difficult work marrying it with managing both the political and social realities of the different influences and consequently subsequently preserving the scriptures and the Christian traditions from which the bible was compiled, including reclaiming Jerusalem, Spain etc it is very easy for you children to deny the 2000years journey of your parent- the Catholic church that inherited the Apostolic mandate.

The Bible didn't jump from heaven but has history and has been review ed where certain books were deliberately removed for reasons best known to the church fathers at the different church councils. So how do you condemn the doctrine of Mary when you know nothing about it? So because the church councils are not recorded in the Bible means they are satanic?

The only Christian organization in the world that has the largest original collections of Christian scriptures, traditions and history even long before the printing technology and Bible was birth is the Catholic church and there is nothing any of you can do about it. Sorry.

Babacele:
most world beliefs and biblical doctrines have Egypt influences- from Moses to Jesus. A pharaoh birth the idea of 1 God long before Christianity so know that; Christ Jesus was taken to Egypt for safekeep from Herod and grew up there; Moses was raised in the court of Pharaoh; the new testament was birth by St Augustine in Egypt, and so many instances including the foundation of christainity -concept of Sol or son of God.

All these are not important to Christians but how to imbibe the beautiful doctrine of love as preached by our Lord Jesus Christ.

Babacele:
1. earlier on this thread while employing foul words 2. Mr Pentecostal,you quoted Leviticus where Moses gave the " thou shall not worship another God" law to the ignorant Jews unlike we poor Catholics that we so much rever God that we beg holy people and saints to help pray to Him despite all our numerous direct communion with the most merciful universal Father.

The same unpredictable Lord told Moses to adopt what modern pharisees would term paganism to promote the faith in Him , like using the ash of burnt heifer for cleanliness Num19:16-18, or the raising of the bronze snake which has great significance with Christ crucifixion as shown in the verse below:

Just as Moses lifted up the snake
in the wilderness, so the Son of
Man must be lifted up,
John 3:15
that everyone who believes in Him
may have eternal life.

3. So how do you know it wasnt God that guided the Catholic church?

4. Do you really understand?

Babacele:
you know nothing about this religion and I'm here to upgrade you.

Catholics pray to God through Mary and the saints.

In math 6:5-6 Jesus said when we pray ,we should go inside our house and say ' our father' and no where did he mention that we should pray to Jesus or say ' in the mighty name of Jesus' as we do in public places of worship presently. So does that mean we are all doomed to hell for exercising Christian initiave knowing that the Son and the Father are now one?
Please , let stop all these religious politics.

Babacele:
Mr God ,mr judge. U know nothing about being born again. It is not some exclusive clubs meant for some privileged to be flaunt at some poor folks but God alone knows who qualifies.
The word of God is Jesus and not the Bible. John1:1-1.

Babacele:

From Genesis to Revelation there is no word like Bible. pls try and learn .

johnw74:


Ha ha, now don't go trying to teach us the Bible, u know little about it

The Word of God here is: God the Word who became the man Jesus Christ
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Word of God here is: the Holy scriptures-the Bible:
Luk_4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.





u c that bro, there is no word Bible in the Bible, so what does that mean, that it doesn't exist? baba a bit 2 confused

johnw74:


So u don't believe the Bible is God's inspired word ,u believe the Bible doctrines are mostly Egypt influenced and not God inspired.

No wonder your have pagan beliefs of praying to people who have died etc.

johnw74:


Ha ha, now don't go trying to teach us the Bible, u know little about it

The Word of God here is: God the Word who became the man Jesus Christ
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Word of God here is: the Holy scriptures-the Bible:
Luk_4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.





u c that bro, there is no word Bible in the Bible, so what does that mean, that it doesn't exist? baba a bit 2 confused

Babacele:
the bible contains some words of God. and God is still speaking to men. what book did Moses or Abraham read before God spoke to them?

Babacele:
The bible was written by men and consists of the old testament and the new testament and by implication Judaism and Christianity . So it contains Jewish history, mistakes, inspirations ,biases and God's intervention etc Jesus is the word of God made long after the Torah had been in use. No amount of deifying the Bible can replace Jesus the word of God.

As at the time Jesus talked in Luke 4:4 there was no book called the Bible. And John was clear by saying that' the word was made flesh'. it is clear enough.
The is a collection of holy scriptures which has been subjected to different reviews by men.