frosbel: Jesus Christ is not Angel Michael , no matter how you try to twist the bible.

We do not worship angels , we worship Yahweh and Jesus Christ his SON.

Did i tell you i worship Angel? do you think you love Christ more than others by rejecting His pre-existance?
You could do best by telling the house that Paul and Isaiah and God made mistakes, I did not twist anything, i presented you the
Scripture. Didn't the Bible taught Jesus pre-exixtance and yet you denied it You want others to follow ur interpretations by going against what the Scripture plainlly teaches!

Disprove those Scriptures with scripture please, i am not through yet, i have other scripture you will have to disprove on this same subject.

plappville:
Did i tell you i worship Angel? do you think you love Christ more than others by rejecting His pre-existance?
You could do best by telling the house that Paul and Isaiah and God made mistakes, I did not twist anything, i presented you the
Scripture. Didn't the Bible taught Jesus pre-exixtance and yet you denied it You want others to follow ur interpretations by going against what the Scripture plainlly teaches!

Disprove those Scriptures with scripture please, i am not through yet, i have other scripture you will have to disprove on this same subject.

If Jesus Christ is an angel, then you are worshipping an angel.

I have been asking questions that even chukwudi decided to escape from,giving me yeye answers....and I'll ask frosbel,true2God and all others...
--__________________________
1......If michael will stand in the end and there will be great tribulations like has not occured before,and then there after the ressurection of the dead and judgement,then what will be Jesus's job??.....knowing that Jesus has been assigned specifically amongst all the other sons of God to carry out that great task of ressurection and judgement...........

2.....Who or what is an angel??......



3.....This question is directed to frosbel.....::::
With all the scriptures quoted,did Jesus pre-exist in heaven before his descending to the earth or did he not??......

4.....While should Jesus shout out with the voice of an arch angel for the dead to be raised??.......
_____________________________

The main points here are::::::

1........Jesus and michael cannot be executing equal and exact roles there in the heavens.......

No other angel or spirit son of God has been given the mandate and power to ressurect the dead in the final part of the days and judge them and also war with satan except (Jesus).......

2........Many think that the thought of Jesus being the arch angel is demeaning....how about the thought of angel micheal if not Jesus having the same exact powers with Jesus...??what about angel michael being co-equal with Jesus??........

You guys can't dodge glaring points and parallels from the scriptures just to call others heretics................

The most important point here is that Jesus pre-existed and has always fought for Gods people(isreal) and continues to fight and stand up for them...........Jesus' additional roles after his ressurection includes his being a priest of God and the mediator standing between man and God and also being king designate of God kingdom............

Apart from that Jesus has always been spare heading the other angels in fighting for Yahwehs people.........

frosbel:

If Jesus Christ is an angel, then you are worshipping an angel.

No one worships Jesus in the real sense of worship.....we adore Him......we worship only Yahweh...have you forgotten??.........

Frosbel I'll like to ask you a simple question.....

Who is an angel??......

ijawkid:

No one worships Jesus in the real sense of worship.....we adore Him......we worship only Yahweh...have you forgotten??.........

Frosbel I'll like to ask you a simple question.....

Who is an angel??......

Worship can mean ;

religious rites or ceremonies, constituting a formal expression of reverence for a deity:


great admiration or devotion shown towards a person or principle:

Oxford Dictionary


We worship Jesus in the sense of admiration and devotion while we worship Yahweh with admiration and devotion but also with reverence.


There are only 2 races of beings , Humans and Angels.

Angels are spirits.

Jesus Christ was not and is not an Angel .

This is the same error with Arianism.

We are forbidden to worship angels no matter how highly placed that angel is.

To worship Angel Michael is to commit an act that is expressly forbidden in scripture.

There is not one place in the bible where Jesus is called Michael or vice versa , just as there is nowhere in the bible that mentions Trinity.

To now impose our interpretation on scripture without explicit approval is presumption at best.

frosbel:

Worship can mean ;

religious rites or ceremonies, constituting a formal expression of reverence for a deity:


great admiration or devotion shown towards a person or principle:

Oxford Dictionary


We worship Jesus in the sense of admiration and devotion while we worship Yahweh with admiration and devotion but also with reverence.


There are only 2 races of beings , Humans and Angels.

Angels are spirits.

Jesus Christ was not and is not an Angel .

This is the same error with Arianism.

We are forbidden to worship angels no matter how highly placed that angel is.

To worship Angel Michael is to commit an act that is expressly forbidden in scripture.

There is not one place in the bible where Jesus is called Michael or vice versa , just as there is nowhere in the bible that mentions Trinity.

To now impose our interpretation on scripture without explicit approval is presumption at best.

Thanks for defining worship and how it applies to Jesus and Yahweh...

No one is imposing anything...all what we are doing is comparing scriptures.........

For now we are still having the lil problem with you accepting that Jesus pre-existed .....so these parallels that are outlined may seem too crazy for you to take in.....

My own priority here right now is to help you see that Jesus pre-existed as a spirit person in heaven before descending to the earth.......your own case is special........

That is why I have been asking who is an angel??....

Let's define who an angel is....

The bible defines who angels are in heb 1:14

Hebrews 1:13-14

New King James Version (NKJV)

13 But to which of the angels has He ever said:

“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”?[a]

14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?

chukwudi44: The bible defines who angels are in heb 1:14

Hebrews 1:13-14

New King James Version (NKJV)

13 But to which of the angels has He ever said:

“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”?[a]

14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?

wasnt Jesus also a minister and a messanger of GOD??,....if i dey lie correct me......

Jesus is the number 1 messanger of GOD....Jesus is a morning star and the most holy servant of GOD...i dey lie??

its like the word or title angel is the problem here....

all angels are spirit ''sons'' of GOD....Jesus is the first born Son.....they are all sons but Jesus is the FIRST.....

ijawkid:


wasnt Jesus also a minister and a messanger of GOD??,....if i dey lie correct me......

Jesus is the number 1 messanger of GOD....Jesus is a morning star and the most holy servant of GOD...i dey lie??

its like the word or title angel is the problem here....

all angels are spirit ''sons'' of GOD....Jesus is the first born Son.....they are all sons but Jesus is the FIRST.....

Exactly what i noticed, because all scriptures i presented shows the Angel there is one particular Angel that play role others can't play.
And the NT made it clear that these roles are Christ roles.

frosbel:

If Jesus Christ is an angel, then you are worshipping an angel.

Bros Frosbel, should i also tell you that you are worshiping a different Jesus?
The Jesus of the Bible pre-existed, but the one you are worshiping did not, how about that?

Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you,
searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11.

plappville:

Bros Frosbel, should i also tell you that you are worshiping a different Jesus?
The Jesus of the Bible pre-existed, but the one you are worshiping did not, how about that?

Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you,
searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11.

The bible nowhere says that JESUS pre-existed.

pastormustwacc: I have been monitoring this thread very closely, even brought non-nairalander christians to review it sef. The consensus offline is that Jesus and Angel michael are different entities entirely.
You guys should resolve already. . . .as far as the thread is concerned, i am a neutral.

Did you imagined that you will tell trinitarians that Jesus is the archagel and not almighty God and they will all clap for you and accept it?

You should have known better my friend.

The main reason why most people are in denial here is because of trinity the central (foundation) doctrine of christiandom.

Now you should know better.

[size=14pt]Now, in Revelation 19 notice the interesting change in the leader of the armies of heaven. Michael will be called by a different name;[/size]

Rev 19:11-14)Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse.
And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.
His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself.
He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.

Can we see in verse 13 that it is The Word of God who leads the armies of heaven? See:
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

So, the Word of God is Jesus. Jesus is leading the armies of heaven!

Befor in Rev 12 we saw that it was Michael who was leding the army of angels. Now in Revelation 19 it is Jesus. Why the change?

Things have changed. Jesus now has aspects of Himself that did not even exist before He cam to the earth.
Christ is now called by a new name which no one knows:

Revelation 3:12 "And I will write on him My new name." and in
Revelation 19:12 "He had a name written that no one knew except Himself."

His description is also changed. he is now called "Faithful and True"
Revelation 3:14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation.

And His robe is dipped in blood. This is indeed Jesus, nd He is identified in a way tht reflects what He has done for us.

frosbel:

The bible nowhere says that JESUS pre-existed.

1 Corinthians 10:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea,
all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
all ate the same spiritual food,
and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.

Who is this Spiritual Rock in this Historic event? Did you read that Paul wrote that Rock WAS CHRIST?

chukwudi44:
It is quite amazing you call yourself a xtian when you cannot yet make up your mind about whom Jesus is.

how honest is this statement?

Is the issue here about who Jesus christ is?

1. We are saying that in Jesus preexistance he was the one reference as the archangel (the leader of the angels).

2. Others are saying he was the almighty God in his preexistance.

3. There is also a fellow that says that Jesus never preexisted. Lol.

However, we know who Jesus christ is = son of Yahweh, the christ.

Pls, put statement in context.

frosbel:

Worship can mean ;

religious rites or ceremonies, constituting a formal expression of reverence for a deity:


great admiration or devotion shown towards a person or principle:

Oxford Dictionary


We worship Jesus in the sense of admiration and devotion while we worship Yahweh with admiration and devotion but also with reverence.


There are only 2 races of beings , Humans and Angels.

Angels are spirits.

Jesus Christ was not and is not an Angel .

This is the same error with Arianism.

We are forbidden to worship angels no matter how highly placed that angel is.

To worship Angel Michael is to commit an act that is expressly forbidden in scripture.

There is not one place in the bible where Jesus is called Michael or vice versa , just as there is nowhere in the bible that mentions Trinity.

To now impose our interpretation on scripture without explicit approval is presumption at best.

when you were debating with the trinitarians who said that jesus and Yahweh are the same cus Jesus receives worship you are said that it was honor but now you are no longer saying it is honor that Jesus receives but worship since he is said to be archangel michael, this turn around is because of your agenda here that jesus never preexisted.

Did you see how you have turned to a doubled aged sword?

Are you really an honest person in doing this?

Watch it!

We should say the truth all the time and stand by it, God hate liars.

You can have two mouth as it suit you.

It is either Jesus receives worship equal as Yahweh or he does not, debate or no debate, stand and be consistent.

frosbel:
There are only 2 races of beings , Humans and Angels.

Angels are spirits.

Jesus Christ was not and is not an Angel .

meanwhile, can you tell me who the person that Joshua worship is?

Please answer this question, dont dodge it and come later to post same thing in the future.

Peace

frosbel:

The bible nowhere says that JESUS pre-existed.

Sir, so what is John 6 vs 61 - 62 talking about?
John 6:61-62
(NIV)
61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you?
62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was
before!

or Proverbs 8:22-30
(NIV)
22 “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old; 23 I was formed long ages ago, at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
24 When there were no watery depths, I was given birth,
when there were no springs overflowing
with water;
25 before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,
26 before he made the world or its fields or any of the dust of the earth. 27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the
face of the deep,
28 when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
29 when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations
of the earth.
30 Then I was constantly[c] at his side. I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,

truthislight:

when you were debating with the trinitarians who said that jesus and Yahweh are the same cus Jesus receives worship you are said that it was honor but now you are no longer saying it is honor that Jesus receives but worship since he is said to be archangel michael, this turn around is because of your agenda here that jesus never preexisted.

Did you see how you have turned to a doubled aged sword?

Are you really an honest person in doing this?

Watch it!

We should say the truth all the time and stand by it, God hate liars.

You can have two mouth as it suit you.

It is either Jesus receives worship equal as Yahweh or he does not, debate or no debate, stand and be consistent.





meanwhile, can you tell me who the person that Joshua worship is?

Please answer this question, dont dodge it and come later to post same thing in the future.

Peace

Our broda Frosbel is becoming so confused

plappville:

Our broda Frosbel is becoming so confused

well, i wish he drops his personal ideas when discussing the bible.

truthislight:

Did you imagined that you will tell trinitarians that Jesus is the archagel and not almighty God and they will all clap for you and accept it?

You should have known better my friend.

The main reason why most people are in denial here is because of trinity the central (foundation) doctrine of christiandom.

Now you should know better.

Now that is interesting, well, i know i dont deserve an award but, this matter wan tough pass trinity o.

plappville:

Our broda Frosbel is becoming so confused

Really??

Isaiah 63:7-9

7 I will mention the
lovingkindnesses of the LORD And
the praises of the LORD, According
to all that the LORD has bestowed
on us, And the great goodness
toward the house of Israel, Which
He has bestowed on them
according to His mercies,
According to the multitude of His
lovingkindnesses.
8 For He said, "Surely they are My
people, Children who will not lie."
So He became their Savior.
9 In all their affliction He was
afflicted, And the Angel of His
Presence saved them; In His love
and in His pity He redeemed
them; And He bore them and
carried them All the days of old.

@plappy

v7 shows that it was Isaiah speaking.

v8 For He said, "Surely they are My
people, Children who will not lie."
So He became their Savior.

who is the one that said this and became their saviour? Is it the angel? I don't think so. Angels command and protect the people of God.

v9 if you read from v1, you will understand that God is the one who has trodden down the people in His anger, He is the One who is afflicted by the affliction of His people.

If God does not want to save them, He will not send the angel of HIS presence to save them. No one loves these people like God does. In His love and pity, He repurchased/redeemed them.

If you read v10 down, you will see how it is making reference to the Father not the angel.

frosbel: @ BARRISTERS


Jesus is neither GOD nor an angel.

He is quite simply the SON of GOD , the Messiah and the Christ.


I will not allow you spread error.

So what is it that convinces many scholars that Jesus claimed to be God? Author, John Piper explains that Jesus claimed power which uniquely belonged to God.

“…Jesus’ friends and enemies were staggered again and again by what he said and did. He would be walking down the road, seemingly like any other man, then turn and say something like, ‘Before Abraham was, I am.’ Or, ‘If you have seen me, you have seen the Father.’ Or, very calmly, after being accused of blasphemy, he would say, ‘The Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.’ To the dead he might simply say, ‘Come forth,’ or, ‘Rise up.’ And they would obey. To the storms on the sea he would say, ‘Be still.’ And to a loaf of bread he would say, ‘Become a thousand meals.’ And it was done immediately.”[7]

But what did Jesus really mean by such statements? Is it possible Jesus was merely a prophet like Moses or Elijah, or Daniel? Even a superficial reading of the Gospels reveals that Jesus claimed to be someone more than a prophet. No other prophet had made such claims about himself; in fact, no other prophet ever put himself in God’s place.

Some argue that Jesus never explicitly said, “I am God.” It is true that he never stated the exact words, “I am God.” However, Jesus also never explicitly said, “I am a man,” or “I am a prophet.” Yet Jesus was undoubtedly human, and his followers considered him a prophet like Moses and Elijah. So we cannot rule out Jesus being divine just because he didn’t say those exact words, anymore than we can say he wasn’t a prophet.

In fact, Jesus’ statements about himself contradict the notion that he was simply a great man or a prophet. On more than one occasion, Jesus referred to himself as God’s Son. When asked whether he thought it far-fetched for Jesus to be the Son of God, lead singer of U2, Bono, answered:

“No, it’s not far-fetched to me. Look, the secular response to the Christ story always goes like this: He was a great prophet, obviously a very interesting guy, had a lot to say along the lines of other great prophets, be they Elijah, Muhammad, Buddha, or Confucius. But actually Christ doesn’t allow you that. He doesn’t let you off the hook. Christ says, No. I’m not saying I’m a teacher, don’t call me a teacher. I’m not saying I’m a prophet….I’m saying I’m God incarnate.” And people say: No, no, please, just be a prophet. A prophet we can take.”[8]

Before we examine Jesus’ claims, it is important to understand that he made them in the context of the Jewish belief in one God (monotheism). No faithful Jew would ever believe in more than one God. And Jesus believed in the one God, praying to his Father as, “the only true God.”[9]

But in that same prayer, Jesus spoke of having always existed with his Father. And when Philip asked Jesus to show them the Father, Jesus said, “Philip, have I been with you so long and you don’t know me? Whoever has seen me, has seen the Father.

Some have argued that Jesus was only claiming to be part of God. But the idea that we are all part of God, and that within us is the seed of divinity, is simply not a possible meaning for Jesus’ words and actions. Such thoughts are revisionist, foreign to his teaching, foreign to his stated beliefs, and foreign to his disciples’ understanding of his teaching.



Jesus taught that he is God in the way the Jews understood God and the way the Hebrew Scriptures portrayed God, not in the way the New Age movement understands God. Neither Jesus nor his audience had been weaned on Star Wars, and so when they spoke of God, they were not speaking of cosmic forces. It’s simply bad history to redefine what Jesus meant by the concept of God.

Lewis explains,

Now let us get this clear. Among Pantheists, like the Indians, anyone might say that he was a part of God, or one with God….But this man, since He was a Jew, could not mean that kind of God. God, in their language, meant the Being outside the world, who had made it and was infinitely different from anything else. And when you have grasped that, you will see that what this man said was, quite simply, the most shocking thing that has ever been uttered by human lips.[19]

Certainly there are those who accept Jesus as a great teacher, yet are unwilling to call him God. As a Deist, we’ve seen that Thomas Jefferson had no problem accepting Jesus’ teachings on morals and ethics while denying his deity.[20] But as we’ve said, and will explore further, if Jesus was not who he claimed to be, then we must examine some other alternatives, none of which would make him a great moral teacher. Lewis, argued, “I am trying here to prevent anyone from saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: ‘I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God.’ That is the one thing we must not say.”[21]

In his quest for truth, Lewis knew that he could not have it both ways with the identity of Jesus. Either Jesus was who he claimed to be—God in the flesh—or his claims were false. And if they were false, Jesus could not be a great moral teacher. He would either be lying intentionally or he would be a lunatic with a God complex.

Even Jesus’ harshest critics rarely have called him a liar. That label certainly doesn’t fit with Jesus’ high moral and ethical teaching. But if Jesus isn’t who he claimed to be, we must consider the option that he was intentionally misleading everyone.

One of the best-known and most influential political works of all time was written by Niccolò Machiavelli in 1532. In his classic, The Prince, Machiavelli exalts power, success, image, and efficiency above loyalty, faith, and honesty. According to Machiavelli, lying is okay if it accomplishes a political end.

Could Jesus Christ have built his entire ministry upon a lie just to gain power, fame, or success? In fact, the Jewish opponents of Jesus were constantly trying to expose him as a fraud and liar. They would barrage him with questions in attempts to trip him up and make him contradict himself. Yet Jesus responded with remarkable consistency.

The question we must deal with is: What could possibly motivate Jesus to live his entire life as a lie? He taught that God was opposed to lying and hypocrisy, so he wouldn’t have been doing it to please his Father. He certainly didn’t lie for his followers’ benefit, since all but one were martyred rather than renouncing his Lordship (see “Did the Apostles believe Jesus is God?” . And so we are left with only two other reasonable explanations, each of which is problematic.



@frosbel pls reply

plappville:

Daniel 10:13) 13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

Michael is also our prince!

Daniel 10:21) But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

If Michael is our prince, then maybe, the other prince or princes are nt our prince!

And Scripture says Michael is the great prince tht protects God's people.

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. Daniel 12:1

Michael is not just a prince, He is the great prince, the Prince of Peace, the Prince and Savior, and also the prince of the kings of the earth!

sorry lad, my bible never once said Jesus is an angel. Man u are on ur own, besides if d other princes arent our servants like michael, wu are they?

true2god: Nice and simple question.

Or maybe angel Michael was not among 'to which of the angels' being spoken of here. But thank God for the book of Hebrews dat removes any form of ambiguity here.

amen

truthislight:

foremost prince means the top prince.

One of the foremost means there are other princes that have high rank like the cherubs that have four faces and are befor yahweh.

since Jesus said that no man has seen Yahweh but the son of man, it means that Jesus also have acces to Yahweh.

So, the reference "one of the formost prince is not out of place and it takes into consideration and regard for the axalted position of those other angels.

But there is actually one overall leader of the angels = archangel.

A reference to "one of the top ranking officers in Nigerian arm" does not mean that all the "top ranking officers" are in the same ranks but rather, it shows that he is a senior officer.

But when the reference is directed to the leader of the Nigerian army, though he is "a top ranking officer, he is the greatest of them all and he can only take orders from the "all in all" and in this case Yahweh.

Leader of the angels = arcangel.

The statement : "One of the archangels" does not mean he is the overal leader of the angels and it is wrong.

The bible talks about one arch angel, so, changing the reference "one of the foremost princes" to "one of the archangels" deceitful and a seriouse deed.

"One of the foremost princes" also takes into consideration that yahweh takes all other princes and angels as "sons"(job 38:7) but there is an only beggoten son, created directly by yahweh.

That being an only "beggoten" makes the whole difference between Jesus christ and every other angels or princeses.

And, the leader of yaweh's army is an only beggoten son = Jesus christ.
Peace

go and learn your english language then u can come back and tell me d meaning of "one of the foremost" dat passage didnt say michael is d foremost instead it says "one of the foremost".

truthislight:

is that book a teaching by the apostle of christ?

The NT is a teaching by the apostles of christ.

Mark and luke are history.

So, which apostle wrote the tobit?

stupid talk!! Is genesis written by an apostle?

truthislight:

thank you. But keep it to yourself.

your rcc claim to be christian but burnt people alive in fire.

Jesus did not do so with the pherisees that change God's word in his day but call them "hypocrite, sons of vipers"

if you dont have a hatred for those that twist God's word, well then i do, and i detest it with passion.

Are you and Chukwudi not birds of the same feathers?

You both feed from the lies of the rcc that you no longer abhor lies but feed on it.

Next you will say that the rcc "wrote the bible"

keep you fraudulent advice to yourself, i dont want such peace with people that twist God's word, it pains and anoinds me, not to talk of all those that you and your rcc have turned to atheist in this world.

How should i talk to a liar, call him a friend or a brother? God forbide, i hate lies and a liar can not be my friend.

Coming to and open forum to twist the bible is it serving the purpose of God or of the devil?

Liars will not not inherit God's kingdom.

right back at ya! Apply ur comment to yourself, if u dont want peace be at war!!! U cant give what u dont have, u cant radiate peace becos within urself their is no peace!!!
Accusation! Accusation!! By their fruit u shall know them.

truthislight:

mistaken for what?

You will not speak out agaist lies but feed on it and turn people to atheist and wish us to be in peace? What peace ?

Even the blood of the righteouse people that have been killed cries out for vengence how much the living seeing the lies that "you" and co are capable of! We should all keep quiet and pretend that all is well.

If i do, will yahweh also keep quiet?

If you dont know, better know now that i hate and detest a deceit and will call a spade a spade.
*sigh*

hahaha, now you are ranting!!! A person wu cant take advise and yet want others to listen to him/her!
With this behaviour? I reserve my comments!

truthislight:

if you have followed this thread and have red all the post you will have known the @Barrister have dealt with this frud you and chukwudi have resorted to.

Infact, you are a west of time.

hahaha,

frosbel:

Wrong.


Jesus is the SON of GOD.

Yahweh is Almighty GOD.


There is only ONE Ruler of the universe, not 2.

Son of God
Jesus also claimed to be the, “Son of God.” This title does not mean Jesus is God’s biological Son. Neither does the term “Son” imply inferiority anymore than a human son is inferior in essence to his father. A son shares his father’s DNA, and although he is different, they are both men. Scholars say that the term “Son of God” in the original languages refers to likeness, or “of the same order.” Jesus meant by it that he has divine essence, or in 21st century terms, the “DNA of God”. Professor Peter Kreeft explains.

“What did Jesus mean when he called himself the ‘Son of God’? The son of a man is a man. (Both ‘son’ and ‘man,’ in the traditional language, mean males and females equally.) The son of an ape is an ape. The son of a dog is a dog. The son of a shark is a shark. And so the Son of God is God. ‘Son of God’ is a divine title.”[11]

In John 17, Jesus speaks about the glory he and his Father shared before the world began. But by calling himself the “Son of God” is Jesus claiming equality with God? Packer answers:

When, therefore, the Bible proclaims Jesus as the Son of God, the statement is meant as an assertion of his distinct personal deity.”[12]

Thus, the names Jesus used for himself point to the fact that he was claiming equality with God. But did Jesus speak and act with the authority of God?

Those who listened to Jesus, observed his moral perfection, and saw him perform miracles, wondered if he was the long-promised Messiah. Finally his opponents surrounded him at the Temple, asking:

“How long are you going to keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”

Jesus answered,

“The proof is what I do in the name of my Father.” He compared his followers with sheep saying, “I give them eternal life, and they will never perish.” He then revealed to them that “the Father is greater than all,” and that his deeds were “at the Father’s direction.” Jesus’ humility must have been disarming. But then Jesus dropped a bombshell, telling them, (John 10:25-30)

“The Father and I are one.”

If Jesus had meant that he was merely in agreement with God, there would have been no strong reaction. But, the Jews again picked up stones to kill him. Jesus then asked them, “At my Father’s direction I have done many things to help the people. For which one of these good deeds are you killing me?”

They replied,

“Not for any good work; but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, have made yourself God” (John 10:33).

As Jesus was preparing his disciples for his upcoming death on the cross and departure, Thomas wanted to know where he was going and the way there. Jesus answered Thomas:

“I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. If you had known who I am, then you would have known who my Father is. From now on you know him and have seen him.” (John 14:5-9)

They were confused. Philip then speaks up, asking Jesus to “show us the Father.” Jesus’ answers Philip with these shocking words:

“Philip, don’t you even yet know who I am, even after all the time I have been with you? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father!”

In effect Jesus was saying, “Philip if you want to see the Father, look at me!” In John 17 Jesus reveals that this oneness with his Father had existed in eternity past, “before the world began.” According to Jesus, there has never been a time when he did not share God’s very glory and essence.

God’s Authority
The Jews always regarded God as the ultimate authority. Authority was a well understood term in Roman-occupied Israel. At that time, Cae­sar’s edict could instantly launch legions into war, condemn or exoner­ate criminals, and establish laws and rules of government. In fact, Caesar’s authority was such that he himself claimed divinity.

Prior to leaving earth, Jesus explained the scope of his authority:

“Jesus said, ‘I have been given complete authority in heaven and on earth’” (Matthew 28:18, NLT).

In these remarkable words, Jesus is claiming to be the supreme authority, not just on earth, but in heaven also. John Piper observes,

“This is why Jesus’ friends and enemies were staggered again and again by what he said and did. He would be walking down the road, seemingly like any other man, then turn and say something like, ‘Before Abraham was, I am.’ Or, ‘If you have seen me, you have seen the Father.’ Or, very calmly, after being accused of blasphemy, he would say, ‘The Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.’ To the dead he might simply say, ‘Come forth,’ or, ‘Rise up.’ And they would obey. To the storms on the sea he would say, ‘Be still.’ And to a loaf of bread he would say, ‘Become a thousand meals.’ And it was done immediately.”[14]

Some might argue that since the authority came from his Father, it has nothing to do with Jesus being God. But God never gives His authority to a created being in order that they are to be worshipped. To do so would be to violate His Command.

Accepting Worship
Nothing is more fundamental to the Hebrew Scriptures than the fact that God alone is to be worshipped. In fact, the first of the Ten Commandments is,

“Do not worship any other gods besides me” (Exodus 20:3 NLT).

Thus, the most terrible sin a Jew could commit was to either worship another creature as God, or to receive worship. So if Jesus is not God, it would be blasphemy to receive worship.

After Jesus’ resurrection, the disciples told Thomas they had seen the Lord alive (John 20:24-29). Thomas scoffed, telling them he would only believe if he could put his fingers on the nail wounds of Jesus’ hands and into his pierced side. Eight days later the disciples were all together in a locked room when Jesus suddenly appeared in front of them. Jesus looked at Thomas and told him to “Put your finger here and see my hands. Put your hand into the wound in my side.”

Thomas needed no more proof. He instantly believed, exclaiming to Jesus:

“My Lord and my God!”

Thomas worshipped Jesus as God! If Jesus is not God, he certainly should have reprimanded Thomas right there. But instead of reprimanding Thomas for worshipping him as God, Jesus commended him, saying:

“You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who haven’t seen me and believe anyway.”

Jesus accepted worship on nine recorded occasions. In context of Jewish belief, Jesus’ acceptance of worship speaks volumes about his claim to divinity. But it wasn’t until after Jesus ascended to heaven that his disciples fully understood. Before Jesus left earth, he told his apostles to “baptize new disciples in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit” (Matt. 28:19), putting both the Holy Spirit and himself on the same level as the Father

@frosbel my point is..“What is beyond all space and time, what is uncreated, eternal, came into nature, descended into His own universe, and rose again. gaskia!

pastormustwacc:
Now that is interesting, well, i know i dont deserve an award but, this matter wan tough pass trinity o.


Really??

hmm...everybody with a bible who claims to have the holyspirit proclaims himself qualified to interprete scriptures independently, a beauty my friend luther created.

truthislight:

when you were debating with the trinitarians who said that jesus and Yahweh are the same cus Jesus receives worship you are said that it was honor but now you are no longer saying it is honor that Jesus receives but worship since he is said to be archangel michael, this turn around is because of your agenda here that jesus never preexisted.

Did you see how you have turned to a doubled aged sword?

Are you really an honest person in doing this?

Watch it!

We should say the truth all the time and stand by it, God hate liars.

You can have two mouth as it suit you.

It is either Jesus receives worship equal as Yahweh or he does not, debate or no debate, stand and be consistent.





meanwhile, can you tell me who the person that Joshua worship is?

Please answer this question, dont dodge it and come later to post same thing in the future.

Peace

We read not of any appearance of God's glory to Joshua till now. There appeared to him one as a man to be noticed. This Man was the Son of God, the eternal Word. Joshua gave him Divine honours: he received them, which a created angel would not have done, and he is called Jehovah, chap. 6:2. To Abraham he appeared as a traveller; to Joshua as a man of war. Christ will be to his people what their faith needs. besides rahab must survive the war.