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Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) - Religion (1) - Nairaland

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Archangel Michael Is Jesus Christ / @i.chuka & Others Lets Discuss D Revelation 12 Woman And The Marian Apparition. / Revelation 12, Who Is The Child. (1) (2) (3) (4)

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Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by frosbel(m): 3:08pm On Nov 17, 2012
BARRISTERS:
14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.

I will not be drawn into a prolonged debate.

I have this to my advantage, my interpretation of scripture is not based on any church or institution, therefore it is easy for me to make a clean break from the doctrines of MEN.

To suggest that Jesus is angel Michael is an insult to GOD and suggests that God could not use his SON who was a MAN to redeem the human race.

No angel , not even Michael was qualified to redeem the WORLD.

Only the Son of GOD , begotten of a WOMAN and imbued with the Power from GOD could have achieved this feat.
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by Boomark(m): 4:32pm On Nov 17, 2012
BARRISTERS:
14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.

what i mean is where you got "a leading Angel" or are you saying Christ can't lead the armies of heaven?
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by truthislight: 4:50pm On Nov 17, 2012
Boomark: Hebrews 1:7-8

7 Of the angels he says, "Who
makes his angels winds, and his
servants flames of fire." 8 But of
the Son he says, "Thy throne, O
God, is for ever and ever, the
righteous scepter is the scepter of
thy kingdom.

v7 refers to angels while v8 refers to the Son.

Also refer to v5 where it says "to which of the angels did he say: "You are my Son..?"" to this question someone can say "to angel Michael." Is it so?

What am seeing here is that since Jesus is greater than the angels, He can do everything Michael can do but Michael cannot do everything Jesus can do.

arch angel means leader of the angels. No?

Unless you are of the opinion that we have two angelic commander in heaven, do we?

Jesus christ is the personage that created all other things both in heaven and on earth.

Jesus christ is the only personage that Yahweh personally created by himself and that made him an only beggoten son of God.

As the only beggoten son and te one Yahweh used to creat all the angelic host, that makes Jesus far above all the angels he created.

Boomark:
Also refer to v5 where it says "to which of the angels did he say: "You are my Son..?""

so, this ^^^ argument is self refuting since Jesus christ and his role is of an only beggoten son. Read this:

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things exist." (Colossians 1:16-17).

By nature he is greater than all the angels.

Why is calling him "leader of the angel" a problem to you all?

You thing there is a "divide and rule" in heaven?

Does the theory of two captains in heaven makes sense to you?
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by truthislight: 5:18pm On Nov 17, 2012
frosbel:

I will not be drawn into a prolonged debate.

I have this to my advantage, my interpretation of scripture is not based on any church or institution, therefore it is easy for me to make a clean break from the doctrines of MEN.

To suggest that Jesus is angel Michael is an insult to GOD and suggests that God could not use his SON who was a MAN to redeem the human race.

No angel , not even Michael was qualified to redeem the WORLD.

Only the Son of GOD , begotten of a WOMAN and imbued with the Power from GOD could have achieved this feat.


you will not accept that there are two equal Gods in heaven as the trinity says, but you are preaching two captain in heaven that leads the angels.

1. Jesus christ.
2. Arch angel michael.

This ^^^ have exactly the same responsibilities. (concussion)

Is that not confusion in God's arrangement that you are suggesting?

If it is your view that christ never existed, that is your personal view(Frosbel) and have nothing to do with the bible and as a matter of fact is a doctrine of man.

Christ is the first born of all creation.

Yahweh is a God of organization and not of disorder

1. There is no two captain leading the angels in heaven.

2. No two equal Gods in heaven.

3. No divide and rule in heaven.

The only divide and rule was satan and he is no more in heaven.

Am surprise you guys can support a theory that is satanic and creat contradiction and confusion and you dont know it.

Yahweh is a God of unity and not of disorder.
Peace

2 Likes

Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by frosbel(m): 5:21pm On Nov 17, 2012
[quote author=truthislight]

arch angel means leader of the angels. No?

God is in charge of all the angels, Michael is an arch angel, not necessarily the leader of angels.

Angels do not bow before each other , they only bow before GOD or Christ JESUS.


Unless you are of the opinion that we have two angelic commander in heaven, do we?

There is only one commander and that is GOD.


Jesus christ is the personage that created all other things both in heaven and on earth.

Jesus Christ is the creator of the structure of the new world to come by the shedding of his blood.

God is the creator of the world as is.


Jesus christ is the only personage that Yahweh personally created by himself and that made him an only beggoten son of God.

God created Jesus not as an angel, but through the womb of Mary, as a MAN.

As the only beggoten son and te one Yahweh used to creat all the angelic host, that makes Jesus far above all the angels he created.

God created angels .


JESUS is not an angel, this is unscriptural and very similar to the Trinity.
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by truthislight: 5:53pm On Nov 17, 2012
[quote author=frosbel][/quote]

my bros. Lol.

Can you explain how it is similar to the trinity?

The bible says that michael/Jesus will come with his holy angels.

Note: "his" holy angels"

well, that his what the bible says, ours is not to bend it but say it the way it is.

I cannot reward myself with everlasting life so, if the bible says that Jesus or michael will come with "his" holy angels why and how can i change it and say that Jesus does not command/lead angelic host.

Yahweh we know delegate alot even asking an angel to bear his name.

Ours is to ensure that we say what the bible says and drop "our" personal sentiments.

1 Like

Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by truthislight: 6:00pm On Nov 17, 2012
[quote author=frosbel][/quote]

note that your teaching on Jesus christ is not biblical and such is not my personal resposibilty to tell you what to believe.

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." (Colossians 1:16-17).

Note:

And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." (Colossians 1:16-17).
^^^

he Jesus is befor all things. Can you explain that?

2 Likes

Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by truthislight: 6:09pm On Nov 17, 2012
[quote author=frosbel][/quote]

note that you teaching on Jesus christ is not biblical and such is not my personal resposibilty to tell you what to believe.

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." (Colossians 1:16-17).

Note:

And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." (Colossians 1:16-17).
^^^

he Jesus is befor all things. Can you explain that?
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by Boomark(m): 8:13pm On Nov 17, 2012
truthislight:

arch angel means leader of the angels. No?

Unless you are of the opinion that we have two angelic commander in heaven, do we?

Jesus christ is the personage that created all other things both in heaven and on earth.

Jesus christ is the only personage that Yahweh personally created by himself and that made him an only beggoten son of God.

As the only beggoten son and te one Yahweh used to creat all the angelic host, that makes Jesus far above all the angels he created.



so, this ^^^ argument is self refuting since Jesus christ and his role is of an only beggoten son. Read this:

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things exist." (Colossians 1:16-17).

By nature he is greater than all the angels.

Why is calling him "leader of the angel" a problem to you all?

You thing there is a "divide and rule" in heaven?

Does the theory of two captains in heaven makes sense to you?

does the term 'only begotten son' show everything He must accomplish. Did it show He is an angel? Did it show that He will come in the flesh?

How about God that made all things? Are the angels not His? Are the armies of heaven not His?

Look at it as a king that has a general who commands his army. During a crucial battle, the king wants to lead his are which includes the general.

Do not skip where it says "to which of the angels did He say..."

am not supporting any church teaching. Anything that is in line with the scripture is what i will go for.
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by ijawkid(m): 9:34pm On Nov 17, 2012
Boomark:

does the term 'only begotten son' show everything He must accomplish. Did it show He is an angel? Did it show that He will come in the flesh?

How about God that made all things? Are the angels not His? Are the armies of heaven not His?

Look at it as a king that has a general who commands his army. During a crucial battle, the king wants to lead his are which includes the general.

Do not skip where it says "to which of the angels did He say..."

am not supporting any church teaching. Anything that is in line with the scripture is what i will go for.


Are the angels and Jesus not all spirit sons of God despite the fact that Jesus is the first of them all??....

Don't you wonder why Jesus can be called the "morning star" just as the rest angels are called??....

Who are morning stars??morning stars are spirit sons of GOD.....I hope you know that??



My point::::: many think that if Jesus is the arch angel micheal then that makes him an angel and that all angels have beginnings.....to me and to you that is not a problem...because from the bible we've read and seen that Jesus had a beginning,but that he is the Firstborn of all..........and we know tht arch ANGEL means leader of the angels.....

What truthislight is trying to say is that MICHAEL cannot stand up in the final part of the days to save Gods people,of which great tribulations would accompany that movement and then later on the ressurection of the dead and then Jesus replicates the same action simultaneously...........read daniel 12:1-3 again...

I don't think of any other spirit son of God that has being bestowed with the power to ressurect the dead except Jesus....but now we see that Micheal is gonna do that too......how is that possible??

The parralels are just too convincing........

No other spirit son of God was given that authority to drive satan from the heavens...no other spirit son than Jesus.......

Satan and his angels,fought with MICHAEL and his angels.....since when was another spirit son of God appointed to fight satan and his angels...??....
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by Boomark(m): 10:52pm On Nov 17, 2012
Daniel 10:13-21
King James Version (KJV)

13 But the prince of the kingdom of
Persia withstood me one and
twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of
the chief princes, came to help me;
and I remained there with the
kings of Persia.
14 Now I am come to make thee
understand what shall befall thy
people in the latter days: for yet
the vision is for many days.
15 And when he had spoken such
words unto me, I set my face
toward the ground, and I became
dumb.
16 And, behold, one like the
similitude of the sons of men
touched my lips:
then I opened my
mouth, and spake, and said unto
him that stood before me, O my
lord, by the vision my sorrows are
turned upon me, and I have
retained no strength.
17 For how can the servant of this
my lord talk with this my lord? for
as for me, straightway there
remained no strength in me,
neither is there breath left in me.
18 Then there came again and
touched me one like the
appearance of a man,[b] and he
strengthened me,
19 And said, O man greatly
beloved, fear not: peace be unto
thee, be strong, yea, be strong. And
when he had spoken unto me, I
was strengthened, and said, Let my
lord speak; for thou hast
strengthened me.
20 Then said he, Knowest thou
wherefore I come unto thee? and
now will I return to fight with the
prince of Persia: and when I am
gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia
shall come.
21 [b]But I will shew thee that which
is noted in the scripture of truth:
and there is none that holdeth with
me in these things, but Michael
your prince.


@frosbel

v16, 18 and 21 will show you without doubt the pre-existence of the son of man(jesus)

brothers, the arch angel can be analogous to our president being call the Grand Commander of the Arm Force while he never enter army barrack in his life.

Morning star can be a title and does not show if it is for angels alone.

Michael came to Daniels aid. And the Son of man also came as you can see from the bolded.

v21 gave us clearly the answer we were looking for. It showed us why Christ will be coming with an arch angels voice, 1Th 4:16.

These are also in line with where it says, "to which of the angels did he ever say: "You are my Son: I, today, I have become your Father""? Hebrew 1:5
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by pastormustwacc: 11:00pm On Nov 17, 2012
One thing i can conclude so far is that, Angel Michael & Jesus seem to play similar roles. 2 captains?
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by Ndipe(m): 11:33pm On Nov 17, 2012
Jesus Christ is not a created Being. He's been with the Father right from the beginning.

Read thihttps://www.christiancourier.com/articles/396-was-jesus-created-by-gods:
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by Boomark(m): 11:41pm On Nov 17, 2012
pastormustwacc: One thing i can conclude so far is that, Angel Michael & Jesus seem to play similar roles. 2 captains?

No. Jesus is greater but Michael is His strong ally. Let me put it that way.

New International Version
(©1984)
but first I will tell you
what is written in the
Book of Truth. (No one
supports me against them
except Michael, your
prince.

New Living Translation
(©2007)
Meanwhile, I will tell you
what is written in the
Book of Truth. (No one
helps me against these
spirit princes except
Michael, your spirit prince.

English Standard Version
(©2001)
But I will tell you what is
inscribed in the book of
truth: there is none who
contends by my side
against these except
Michael, your prince.

New American Standard
Bible (©1995)
"However, I will tell you
what is inscribed in the
writing of truth. Yet there
is no one who stands
firmly with me against
these forces except
Michael your prince.

King James Bible
(Cambridge Ed.)
But I will shew thee that
which is noted in the
scripture of truth: and
there is none that holdeth
with me in these things,
but Michael your prince.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
(©1995)
However, I will tell you
what is inscribed in the
true writings. No one will
support me when I fight
these commanders except
your commander, Michael.

King James 2000 Bible
(©2003)
But I will show you that
which is noted in the
scripture of truth: and
there is none that upholds
me in these things, but
Michael your prince.

American King James
Version
But I will show you that
which is noted in the
scripture of truth: and
there is none that holds
with me in these things,
but Michael your prince.

American Standard
Version
But I will tell thee that
which is inscribed in the
writing of truth: and there
is none that holdeth with
me against these, but
Michael your prince.

Douay-Rheims Bible
But I will tell thee what is
set down in the scripture
of truth: and none is my
helper in all these things,
but Michael your prince.
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by Ndipe(m): 11:42pm On Nov 17, 2012
http://www.enduringword.com/commentaries/0605.htm

The above, perhaps, should put an end to this question on if Jesus Christ is Michael or not.
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by frosbel(m): 11:52pm On Nov 17, 2012
Ndipe: Jesus Christ is not a created Being. He's been with the Father right from the beginning.

Read thihttps://www.christiancourier.com/articles/396-was-jesus-created-by-gods:

First of all christiancourier is one man's interpretation.

The simple truth that most of you miss is that Jesus was begotten of the Father through his Spirit who made Mary to miraculously conceive and bear a SON , the Son of GOD and Son of MAN.

Since when did SON of GOD now = GOD.

Jesus Christ was not a second person of a so called trinity and neither is he an angel. He is simply the SON of GOD.
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by frosbel(m): 11:58pm On Nov 17, 2012
Boomark: Daniel 10:13-21
King James Version (KJV)

13 But the prince of the kingdom of

These are also in line with where it says, "to which of the angels did he ever say: "You are my Son: I, today, I have become your Father""? Hebrew 1:5

Not necessarily , he had the appearance of a MAN does not indicate he is a MAN because we know that angels are spirits and MEN are mortal , therefore they are not of the same substance.

Also when we revisit the visions of the major prophets in the bible we can see that some high ranking angels had the face of MEN but they were not MEN.

example :

"10 As for the form of their faces, each had the face of a man; [d]all four had the face of a lion on the right and the face of a bull on the left, and [e]all four had the face of an eagle. 11 Such were their faces. Their wings were spread out above; each had two touching another being, and two covering their bodies." - Ezekiel 1:10-11
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by Boomark(m): 12:42am On Nov 18, 2012
frosbel:

Not necessarily , he had the appearance of a MAN does not indicate he is a MAN because we know that angels are spirits and MEN are mortal , therefore they are not of the same substance.

Also when we revisit the visions of the major prophets in the bible we can see that some high ranking angels had the face of MEN but they were not MEN.

example :

"10 As for the form of their faces, each had the face of a man; [d]all four had the face of a lion on the right and the face of a bull on the left, and [e]all four had the face of an eagle. 11 Such were their faces. Their wings were spread out above; each had two touching another being, and two covering their bodies." - Ezekiel 1:10-11

So who was it that appeared in likeness of men, v16, who said Michael was helping Him to fight the evil princes, v21?
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by trolling(m): 12:50am On Nov 18, 2012
All angels are subject to Yahshua and Michael is not the same as Yahshua
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by plappville(f): 1:05am On Nov 18, 2012
This is a good thread. I have been questioning myself on this two figures, hopefully this thread is to make some clearifications. I believe only the scripture can give us the answer. The bible needs to be exploit on this issue before running into conclusion. @ijewkid gave us (Daniel) to take a look at. I hope to do that because i would't want to agree to an unbiblical truth. I prefare to Let Scripture explain Scripture. All thesame, i must say Good work so far to all those that have contributed already. And @OP, wonderful thread.

Now Let me call on bros....Frosbel to tell us where the scripture denies Jesus pre-existance first before further comment.
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by pastormustwacc: 4:04am On Nov 18, 2012
This thread is getting even more interesting than i thought.
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by plappville(f): 2:26pm On Nov 18, 2012
trolling: All angels are subject to Yahshua and Michael is not the same as Yahshua

Allow the bible to tell us who Jesus is, not your own words....
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by plappville(f): 2:49pm On Nov 18, 2012
plappville: This is a good thread. I have been questioning myself on this two figures, hopefully this thread is to make some clearifications. I believe only the scripture can give us the answer. The bible needs to be exploit on this issue before running into conclusion. @ijewkid gave us (Daniel) to take a look at. I hope to do that because i would't want to agree to an unbiblical truth. I prefare to Let Scripture explain Scripture. All thesame, i must say Good work so far to all those that have contributed already. And @OP, wonderful thread.

Now Let me call on bros....Frosbel to tell us where the scripture denies Jesus pre-existance first before further comment.

Bros Frosbel where are you? Please your attention is needed, how can you prove these scriptures wrong?:

(1)"Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending TO WHERE HE WAS BEFORE?" John 6:62

(2)"for the Father himself loves you, because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God. I came from the Father and have come into the world, and now I am leaving the world and going to the Father." John 16:27-28

(3)"Jesus said to her, ‘I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me SHALL NEVER DIE. Do you believe this?’ She said to him, ‘Yes, Lord; I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, who is coming into the world.’" John 11:25-27


Jesus also claims that Abraham saw him, and that he existed even before Abraham was created.

Now as far as Christ existing befor Adam is concerned note carefully what Christ says elsewher:

(4)"And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed." John 17:5

Compare this with John’s prologue below:

(5)"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made… He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him… And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth." John 1:1-3, 10, 14

Not only did the Lord Jesus exist before the world itself, he was also the figure whom God used to actualy create every created thing, which makes him an eternal Being and he therefore existed before the angels. In fact, he created the angels according to John!

We should hold on to what the Bible say not your own words, Scriptures with swriptures will give you an accurate answer.
As for the archangel Michael and Jesus which is the main aim of this thread, it will be good to also hold on to the scriptures and not our own words.

3 Likes

Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by plappville(f): 3:02pm On Nov 18, 2012
pastormustwacc: ^^Now, that is really interesting. I am trying my best to be as objective as possible on this thread. I am not taking any side (yet).

You should not be afraid to accept what the bible say, its not a matter of surporting a side.
I am not here to surport anyone but to accept the bible on what it says.

pastormustwacc: One thing i can conclude so far is that, Angel Michael & Jesus seem to play similar roles. 2 captains?

Very similar roles indeed, Doest the bible teaches two captains? I don't think so because, Satan lost His place because He wanted to be Equal.
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by pastormustwacc: 7:44pm On Nov 18, 2012
^^I am thread OP, so i am not supposed to take sides. Immagine me being an interviewer. So now, we have 2 groups of people on this thread:
1. Those that believe that Jesus=Michael
2. Those that believe that Jesus <> Michael

Then on another level:
1. Those that believe that Jesus is the second person in the trinity
2. Those that believe that Jesus is not part of the trinity

*Heaves a sign of relief, lets proceed, i am happy with the contributors especially frosbel*
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by BARRISTERS: 2:00am On Nov 19, 2012
@boomark
Michael came to Daniels aid. And the Son of man also came as you can see from the bolded.

(a) firstly, you erred by confusing ''the Son of man'' with ''sons of men''thereby leading you in error towards concluding that;
v21 gave us clearly the answer we were looking for. It showed us why Christ will be coming with an arch angels voice, 1Th 4:16.

you confused yourself from (bolded)verse 16, below;


16 And, behold, one like the
similitude of [b]the sons of men

touched my lips

lets prove that;


in Gen 6:2

That the son(s) of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose

note that ''the son(s) of God'' [/b]as used in Gen 6:2 above is[b] reffering to the fallen angels,and different from ''the son God'' as used in Luke 1:35 which reffers to jesus christ;

Luke 1:35

35 And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God


hence;''the Son of man'' is totally different from[b]''son(s) of men''
[/b]

(b) secondly,

the verse was not conclusive;

16 ''And, behold, one like the
similitude of the sons of men''

'similitude' often used for 'similarity' or 'likeness' (using the greek translations which the OT manuscript existed originally)dictionary

H1823

similitude

דּמוּת

demûth

dem-ooth'

; resemblance , like ({-ness}


and this further shows why the identity of 'the one with the likeness of the sons of men' here cannot be conclusively determined.

(c) and thirdly;

'the one with the likeness of the sons of men' here should have not have been a 'dependent' on a superior which he proclaimed to be micheal, or are we saying Micheal is greater or supperior to the alledged jesus?

although he strenthens Daniel, and Daniel called him my lord, but it is very common to call angel 'my lord' it doesnt make him jesus, Lot called the 2 angels that rescued him 'my Lord',

how do we derive that;(using the greek translations)

Dan 10:21(NKJV) (new king jame version) But I will tell you what is noted in the Scripture of Truth. (No one upholds me against these, except Michael your prince.

Dan 10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and [there is] none that holdeth H2388 with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

holdeth
H2388

חזק

châzaq

khaw-zak'

H2388 a similar greek word used for 'holdeth' above was also used below, shows lending on a superior to achieve a kind of success;

Gen 21:18 Arise, lift up the lad, and hold H2388 [/b]him in thine hand; for I will make him a great nation.

considering the proofs established in a,b and c above, the one reffered to as 'the one with the[b] likeness of the sons of men
' is not the son of God, neither is he son of man talkless of being jesus christ!

1 Like

Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by BARRISTERS: 3:04am On Nov 19, 2012
These three bible verses; (a1)John 5:25-29 (a2) 1 Thessalonians 4:16 (a3) Daniel 12 :1 pointed to the same event,and were recorded with similarities, the actors role and functions as recorded has provided a very strong identity of Micheal;

The strongest of proof here against all other speculation is ''the voice''

mentioned twice in John 5:25-29 below; clearly fits in perfectly with 1 thes 4:16;



John 5:25-29
New King James Version (NKJV)

25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which[b] all who are in the graves will hear[/b]. His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
Apart from jesus the son of God who receives the authority to 'ressurects'(vs 27) using 'his voice'(vs25), no authority was given to anyone to perform that task except jesus,and

Apart from sentiments, the identity of ''the person credited with the voice was clearly mentioned below'' 'Micheal'; and not only that,the dead in christ will rise first after hearing 'the voice' of Micheal;


1 Thessalonians 4:16
New King James Version (NKJV)
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.



and to cap it all, in recording the same event, Micheal was clearly mentioned, in Dan 12:1; without the mention of jesus again, then the record proceeds to the ressurection direcly.

Daniel 12:1
New King James Version (NKJV)

12 “At that time Michael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book.

1 Like

Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by trolling(m): 3:14am On Nov 19, 2012
plappville:

Allow the bible to tell us who Jesus is, not your own words....
Make u sit down there make u dey pray to a pagan deity, we know what we worship, salvation is of the Jews not christains.
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by Boomark(m): 3:30am On Nov 19, 2012
@barristers

Don't say am confused when you don't know what it means to be similar to the sons of men. Who are men(human beings) btw?

With reference to v21
Just like a general. A soldier under the command of a general will not tell you that the general is helping him to fight boko haram.

Michael is the commander of God's army and atimes also appear as a man. Note that the arch angel is very great and mighty. Infact when i read where God told the israelites to obey him and that he(Michael) might not forgive them if they disobey him, i begin dey fear him o. He does not only commands God's army but we all also. He is our commander.

The one similar to the sons of men is also a fighter and said that the arch angel is helping him to hold the force. This shows that he is greater.

So tell me who is it that the commander is helping?
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by Boomark(m): 4:59am On Nov 19, 2012
1 Thessalonians 4:16
New King James Version (NKJV)
16 For the Lord Himself will
descend from heaven with a
shout, with the voice of an
archangel, and with the
trumpet of God. And the dead in
Christ will rise first.

These are the things He will come with but Let me start with this "...with the trumpet of God"
I hope you know he is not the one to blow the trumpet.

Rev 8:2
"And i saw the seven angels who stand before God and to them were given seven trumpets." Also v6

Mt 24:31
"And He will send His angels with a great sound of trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other"

I wan sleep now, leta.
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by pastormustwacc: 7:50am On Nov 19, 2012
Is it the trumpet that will bring us back to life? If so, na who go blow the trumpet - that person has the power to bring the dead back to life? Someone should please unravel this mystery.
Re: Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7) by BARRISTERS: 8:05am On Nov 19, 2012
@boomark
Don't say am confused when you don't know what it means to be similar to the sons of men.

i have showed you in my last post, just the way it sound! 'similar to the sons of men' the same pattern used 'daugthers of men' and not 'daughter of man' was rendered' in Gen 6:2


''sons of men'' is not ''son of man'' used for jesus, and from the usage of the word,the meaning is not far fetched,

in Gen 6:2

That the sons of God [/b]saw [b]the daughters of men [/b]that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose


Who are men(human beings) btw?


it is not reffering to only one particular special human (like in the case of jesus)but by using ''sons of men' in the same form 'daughters of men' is rendered shows that the imformation we need here is only to the 'extent' of recognising only what 'look' the one that appears to Daniel looks like!

Michael is the commander of God's army and atimes also [b]appear as a man.

Daniel 10:16 And, behold, one like the
similitude of the sons of men

Again Daniel 10:16 does not support your assumption that it was micheal that the appearance is similar to that of the 'sons of men'

other angels too have appeared like men before, the angels that abraham entertained unknowinly,they appeared like 'sons of men' such that abram could not differentiate them.

Michael is the commander of God's army and a times also appear as a man

are you saying that we have 2 commanders of Gods army?

sorry, God gave the angels charge only to jesus;

mathew 4:6
6 and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:

‘He shall give His angels charge over you,’
He does not only commands God's army but we all also. He is our commander.
how is this separate commander apart from jesus our commander? you are muddling things up, we only have one commander...jesus.

So tell me who is it that the commander is helping?

i dont know what you are talking about, but only one person has Gods authority to lead the army

in John 5:25-29
New King James Version (NKJV)

25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27[b] and has given Him authority[/b] to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.

with these authority, jesus or the son of man, who receives this authority to judge,aknowledging this fact, daniel does not neccesarily inlude jesus or son of man but directly mention micheal as the executor of judgement based on the authority

Daniel 12:1
New King James Version (NKJV)

12 “At that time[b] Michael shall stand up,[/b]
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book.

These are the things He will come with but Let me start with this "...with the trumpet of God"

I hope you know he is not the one to[b] blow the trumpet[/b].[/quote]

blowing the trumpet forms 'part of the shout'
vs 16 ''For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout''


but something very distinct is 'the voice that the dead will hear' vs 16 ''the voice of an archangel'',

this agrees with john 5:25

25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God;

taking into consideration that the authority of who executes this rest on jesus and no other person and not even another commander.

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