frosbel:

Wrong !!

The phrase 'To which of his angels' implies ALL angels not some angels.

This simple verse destroys any attempt to falsely suggest that Jesus was an angel.

truthislight:
see the fraud again!
this vers says "one of the foremost princes"
where did you get that your translation from?
Oh! It may be an rcc bible that dont have the fear of God that will change what the bible says at that daniel.
Sorry for you.

truthislight:

thats a fraud from your rcc bible.

frosbel:



You are following the teachings of JW, I am not. I am free from the interpretations of churches or organisations.

Jesus is not an angel. For one to come to this most erroneous conclusion , the evidence must be based , not on facts but inferences and assumptions.

truthislight:

your opinion.

We have seen what the bible says.

The arch angel is the leader of the angels.

And Jesus is also the leader of the angel. QED.

truthislight:

but the same Jesus is the commander.

And michael is also the commander.

frosbel:


My sister you are going into error here, what do you mean by the underlined ?

Jesus was born the Son of GOD as a MAN , how difficult is this for you to grasp ?

frosbel:


My sister you are going into error here, what do you mean by the underlined ?

Jesus was born the Son of GOD as a MAN , how difficult is this for you to grasp ?

truthislight:

we all know that a commander is one that the gives oders/instructions/lead others.

Jesus lead his angels at Rev. 12 and Rev. 1:11-18 to first battle satan in heaven and letter destroy the wicked.

A commander comes with his troop and this too have angels that follow him and the referenc is to the commander of the troop like in every rational reference to military troop the reference is to the commander but to you no, it will not be to you since it will destroy your trinity.

You can call a troop to the name of its commander and that is what happen in this revelation.

That you say No, does not change the facts.

From the passage we all know who the commander of yahweh's army is.

Your denial is for you alone and does not change anything from the truth.

Next you will present torbit. Lol.

truthislight:

am through with you on this thread since your interest is to stick to the lies that rcc have fed "us" all along.

You can stick with it it is a free world and i will stick to what i see from the bible.

Peace.

truthislight:

your opinion.

We have seen what the bible says.

The arch angel is the leader of the angels.

And Jesus is also the leader of the angel. QED.

truthislight:

so we must fit in, into frosbel's imaginations now to be on the know?

Lol.

Guy, face reality and stop standing on your personal opinion.

Jesus has been very very active in the things of Yahweh as pertending the redemption of mankind and finall appeared to pay the ultimate sacrifice and seal the covanant.

This is the truth.

Frosbel cannot change it and frosbel cannot give himself or any other person eternal life.
Peace.

frosbel:


No, that is the standpoint of JW not the bible.

Hear the bible out :

Hebrews 1 :

V4 - "...having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.

v5 - "For to which of the angels did He ever say, 'You are my Son, today I have begotten You.'? And again, 'I will be a Father to Him and He shall be a Son to Me.'?

v6 - "And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, 'And let all the angels of God worship Him.'

v7 - "And of the angels He says, 'Who makes His angels winds, and His ministers a flame of fire.'

v8 - "But of the Son He says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom.


NO ANGEL Would have qualified to die for the sins of MAN.


Jesus Christ, our beloved Lord and Saviour came in flesh and blood, he was MAN like you and me , only that his Father is GOD and he is now glorified and exalted above all power and authority in heaven and earth.


[size=16pt] "For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way [/size] , in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people." - Hebrews 2:17

plappville:

Does this not proved He existed before? He was made much better than Angels, but do you know He has been with the Angels?
They are His angels. Do you know if He obtain this higher quality because of His uniqueness?

frosbel:

Jesus Christ as person came into being when he was begotten by the Father through a virgin.

Prior to this, there was no person called Jesus Christ , only a prophecy of his coming.

The angels are Yahweh's angels who have NOW been made subject also to the Son.

Again, your deductions , supposedly from scripture , that Jesus was and is an angel are based on inferences and assumptions not fact.

Jesus Christ was a 100% Man , not a mythical half man / half god or half man / half angel.

He came in flesh and blood and died for our sins as prophesied by the Father Yahweh.

plappville:

Who is the angel Yaweh sent that HAS GODS NAME IN HIM, SAME WAS REFERED TO BY PAUUL IN CORINTHIANS WHO IS THIS ANGEL
This is bible not assumption.

Ubenedictus: so u didnt hear dat d minister of defense is commander of d army, d cheif of army staff is also commander and the president is also commander? Does that mean d president is d cheif of army staff?

Ubenedictus: so y does d bible say "to which of d angels"?

frosbel:

Well I cannot assume, or should I ?

He was an angel sent by GOD with the authority of GOD given to him, just like God has given his authority to other angels, prophets , kings etc.

No specific name was given for this angel , and therefore any assumptions made will be at best based on presumption.

plappville:

Daniel 10:13) 13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

Michael is also our prince!

Daniel 10:21) But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

If Michael is our prince, then maybe, the other prince or princes are nt our prince!

And Scripture says Michael is the great prince tht protects God's people.

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. Daniel 12:1

Michael is not just a prince, He is the great prince, the Prince of Peace, the Prince and Savior, and also the prince of the kings of the earth!

true2god: Nice and simple question.

Or maybe angel Michael was not among 'to which of the angels' being spoken of here. But thank God for the book of Hebrews dat removes any form of ambiguity here.

plappville:

So who did Paul say He is?

1 Corinthians 10:1-4) Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, "and that Rock was Christ". Did Paul made mistake here?

truthislight:
Some people here are saying that Jesus will go and borrow an arch angels voice to be able to raise the dead at the end, that is why he will shout with an arch angels voice since the voice is not his own. Lol.

Then, Was it a borrowed arch angels voice that Jesus used in raising up Lazarus?

No, it is His(Jesus)voice that raise Lazarus and it is him that has the arch angels voice it his him that has the commanders voice, it is his voice that the dead will hear and rise at the end.

Are you saying that an arch angels voice has more authority than that of our lord Jesus christ? Insult!

An only beggoten son, a prince needs to borrow to do the will of the king.

An arch angels voice is not more powerful than that of christ but rather it is him Jesus christ that has the commanding voice like the commanding voice that he had used in raising up lazarus.

Yes, our lord has a commanding voice an arch angels voice to raise the dead, the voice of whom all authority both in heaven and on earth has been given. A commanders voice, he is not borrowing it, but rather, it is his voice.
Peace

frosbel:


My goodness sister, slow down

You just quoted this phrase 'Michael, one of the chief princes'.

Does this not mean that there are many other chief princes ? Surely this is what the quoted scripture above means, no ?

Be careful , the devil might be leading you to worship angels and not JESUS.

"Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions." - Colossians 2:18

plappville:

Yes "one of the chief princes shows there are other princes but they are never refarred to as Michael. His role is unique, He leads other Angels.

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. Daniel 12:1

I repeat, Michael is not just a prince, He is the great prince. why is He the great prince?

frosbel:

the spiritual rock is the wellspring of eternal life now made known in Christ Jesus.

This is an anti-typical statement signifying the future provision of true and tangible eternal life which is through Christ.

"Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him." - John 7:38

plappville:

The Angel that has the name of God in him, that God sent after them, is thesame Paul is reffering to as the "Spiritual Rock.
You cannot twist this one Bros...

frosbel:

Wrong !!

There is nowhere in the bible where we receive confirmation that Michael leads all the angels of GOD.

Again you are making baseless assumptions and inferential statements.

frosbel:

2 things :


1. He had the name of GOD in him , but no names mentioned, though this could have been Michael. Also having the name of GOD in him desigantes the level of authority granted to him by GOD for the purpose or representation.

2. There are other archangels and chief princes, Michael was one of them, not the leader of them.

Ubenedictus: what does "one of the foremost princes mean"? If michael is "one of the foremost princes" that means there are others like him.
I see no decit!